Tom miranda and chuck adams?
General Topic
Did these two ever workout their differences so to speak? I just read toms book for the second time and researched why chuck was not mentioned in book. Just wondering if it all got worked out. Like them both and think it would be nice to them burry the hatchet
How would we know. See if tom comes on and tells us what he thinks about chuck. That is your on,y hope to get an answer that is not conjecture
They're both 1st rate guys and hunters (from what I have read). That's all that matters. Im sure they aren't losing sleep over it.
which book do you guys like best?
I like chucks the best. Both of his are good. Life at full draw was awesome.
I read an article from Chuck recently that he and the Grand Slam Club worked out their differences. I hope so. Why go through life being mad?
Chuck has never done anything to hurt wildlife organizations that promote conservation that I know of. Nor do I see him peddling stuff. My impression is he is a great guy, but I only met him a couple of times.
If I recall it was what Ironbow said... the issue was with GSCO, not really with Tom. My understanding is the two get along OK.
THis is great news. Nothing like a reconciliation to rekindle faith in mankind.
I actually found the court docket from 2013. Adams sued miranda and the grand slam org. Dont know if he won or may still be i. The works. I just remember those two hunting together on tv. It was only one of a very few times i ever saw chuck actually hunting. Tom seems like a good guy and so does chuck. I would love to just sit arou d a fire and listen to those two talk about their wuest to the slam
This is what happens when someone has more greed than common sense.
Since Tom is hooked up with GSO, it is very clear who has the high ground.
So I'm looking at all this from a layman's point of view and may not actually know the facts but here's my take on it. First of all I have the highest respect for both Tom and Chuck as hunters and sportsmen. I've not met Tom, I have spoken briefly with Chuck. I look at what happened over the organization that calls itself GSCO trademarking what Chuck (and Easton arrows) spent his time,money,effort and ingenuity in developing as a dirty deal. Sure, they did it legally, but it was still a low blow ethically. I think Chuck has every right and reason to be totally upset with the way it happened. For me, Tom's association with GSCO and taking on the role as their spokesman, diminished his credibility in my eyes. I realize it was probably a good business move, but I know for myself that I would never join anything associated with the GSCO based on their willingness to take the name that another man worked hard to create for his own marketing. Everyone knows that Chuck Adams was the first man to take the "Super Slam" with his bow. Does the fact that he can no longer call it a "Super Slam" legally do anything except make the GSCO look like petty jerks? I guess I agree with x-man that this is what happens when someone has more greed than common sense. There are plenty of great conservation organizations out there. GSCO will never get any of my money.
"They're both 1st rate guys and hunters (from what I have read). That's all that matters. Im sure they aren't losing sleep over it." Yeah right, that's why the lawyers are involved. So they can sleep better. I agree with Gerald Martin above.
I agree with Gerald Martin 100%. Chuck created the whole Grand Slam name and then someone comes in and steals it. Sad when greed gets into archery hunting.
I know that Chuck had a patent on the term Super Slam many years ago. Listening to this thread, I think I'm beginning to understand why Easton is dropping XX78 Super Slams Series out of the aluminum lineup for 2015.
Chuck is a A-1 guy and he has my respect always! "The Industry" is a cut throat business ...sink or swim! Being in and around the industry always made me ill at times! So much goes on that most have No Clue about! Even some in the industry have No Clue ....
Whenever I hear the term super slam I only associate it with chuck Adams. When I hear the name chuck Adams I think super slam. The 2 go hand in hand.
100% with Gerald Martin on this one. I have the utmost respect for both guys and this entire thing is actually sad and a black eye on our sport. Im a trapper before bow hunter therefore my loyalties are always with Tom Miranda, however when he partnered up with GSCO and Dennis Campbell it really had me scratching my head.
What GSCO did not only to Chuck but to the FNAWS and every one of its members is despicable to say the least. Not only did it force me into ceasing any support of GSCO but I also picked up a membership into the newly formed WSF for my wife as well.
I know last year sometime Tom was on this site and explained his side of it and I have no choice but to respect that. These internet sites really bring out some weirdo's and I find it very admirable that Tom takes the time to explain things here.
the only people that won anything between either the GSCO/FNAWS or the Adams/GSCO-Miranda suit were the attorneys- period.
Neither Adams, GSCO, FNAWS now WSF or Miranda came away winners and most importantly- neither did the general hunting public- you and me.
michael
MN,
I agree with much you said. Tom also sent me some messages further explaining his case.
I disagree with you about Dennis losing. I hope and wish he did, but facts are facts. He received huge amounts of money and the fact that he blew it is beside the point.
Hunters were the real ones to pay the price.
Tom's position was pitiful. The fact is he sold out for 15 seconds of limelight and a cheap wooden plaque. His support of GSCO tells far more than any words he can speak defending himself.
"Neither Adams, GSCO, FNAWS now WSF or Miranda came away winners and most importantly- neither did the general hunting public- you and me"
"Hunters were the real ones to pay the price"
My hunting pursuits and enjoyment of same nor cost of doing so have been affected to the best of my knowledge.
I respect and to some degree envy both of them for finding a way to make a living while living the dream.
Loprofile,
how much money did what is now WSF have to spend on a attorney fees that could have been spent and would have been spent in an effort to provide a habitat modification or funding research that does in fact make a difference to all outdoorsmen?
when WSF puts a sheet guzzler or water tank on the side of a mountain sheep aren't the only things that drink out of it. there is a direct benefit and effect for all animals and birds on that mountain.
First time I've heard of WSF - I'll agree that almost all cases money spent on attorney's fees could have been better used elsewhere.
WSF is the Wild Sheep Foundation. If you have heard of FNAWS- Foundation for North American Wild Sheep, they are now called WSF.
WSF is responsible for millions and millions of dollars going directly into conservation efforts. Out of all the orgs I belong to and support WSF from what im able to decipher, puts a vastly greater % of money generated DIRECTLY into conservation efforts. They don't have directors taking home 6 figure salaries. They take in millions of dollars and they spend those dollars where its needed most
michael
^^^This is correct.
Tom Miranda's position he told me was that GSO was just as beneficial because they specialize in recognizing hunters.
I think they specialized in stroking Tom's ego.
I was unaware of the history and back story on the feud between Chuck Adams and GSCO. I grew up idolizing Chuck and have dreamed about the challenge of the Super Slam ever since he completed the first slam in 1990. I had always wondered why he didn't show up in the list of the Super Slammers GSCO maintains but figured it had something to do with a disagreement over the use of the term Super Slam.
In the September 2014 issue of Bowhunter Chuck writes a great article titled "Lessons Learned from the Super Slam." In it he does say "I am happy to say that I recently collaborated with GSCO to formalize the official definition of the bowhunting Super Slam. With my blessing, the GSCO provides the only official, legal registry for North American Super Slams." Sounds like the hatchet has gone a long way towards being buried.
I was unaware of the history and back story on the feud between Chuck Adams and GSCO. I grew up idolizing Chuck and have dreamed about the challenge of the Super Slam ever since he completed the first slam in 1990. I had always wondered why he didn't show up in the list of the Super Slammers GSCO maintains but figured it had something to do with a disagreement over the use of the term Super Slam.
In the September 2014 issue of Bowhunter Chuck writes a great article titled "Lessons Learned from the Super Slam." In it he does say "I am happy to say that I recently collaborated with GSCO to formalize the official definition of the bowhunting Super Slam. With my blessing, the GSCO provides the only official, legal registry for North American Super Slams." Sounds like the hatchet has gone a long way towards being buried.
How many dollar signs are there in "collaborated"???? =D
Chuck will always be the first. Period. But i do acknowledge the accomplishment of tom and the rest of the guys that have done it. I think chuck did it when it wasnt as easy from a $$ stand point. Lets face it, most will never be able to do on the $ factor alone.
Bowsite-
Chuck Adams has always been a friend of mine. I was the first TV producer to have Chuck on ESPN in 1994- discussing his Super Slam. Chuck did Whitetail hunting tips on my show for 2 years as a spokesman for Hunters Specialties Company. Chucks a great bowhunter, and conversations with him led me to eventually pursue the Slam myself.
fast forward 16 years...
As I was finishing my own Super Slam, North American 29 or what ever you want to call it. I saw that Grand Slam Club had started a Super Slam Organization in an attempt to archive and honor hunters who had achieved the Slam whether with rifle, muzzleloader, bow and crossbow. GSCO has beed tracking hunters in pursuit of Wild Sheep Grand Slams since 1956... and archiving them soon afterwards.
Soon after... I had finished the archery Super Slam- and was editing a DVD about my quest titled "Adventure Bowhunter". Bowhunters Jack Frost, Tom Hoffman and Frank Noska all agreed to let me tape bios on them and do interviews about their Super Slams.
I also had documented my hunts precisely and also thought a companion book would be a perfect fit. The DVD & book would be a tribute to Chuck Adams & all the current Super Slammers- and I had produced a full video piece about Chuck and his influence on me & his amazing accomplishment- I also wrote 7 paragraphs in my book about Chuck. All amazing stuff... I have hunted with Chuck and have many photos of us together.
Chuck has trade marks using Super Slam for clothing and bowhunting accessories. GSCO applied for and was granted a trade mark for Super Slam as an organization-GSCO printed a magazine and began to archive Slammers.
Chuck was upset with GSCO and this new Super Slam club.. A lawsuit was eventually filed which named Dennis Campbell, GSCO and myself as I was promoting my Super Slam on my television series.
As deadlines neared for the DVD and book- my council advised I needed to get permission from Chuck to use his likeness and mention him in the DVD and book. However, Chuck refused to discuss or email me back permission to use photos or mention him- and so my lawyer demanded that I leave out any reference to Chuck Adams in the Book or DVD as it possibly could have a detrimental impact on the legal issues at hand.
Keep in mind that I had gotten permission from more than 50 top bowhunters all friends of mine to provide quotes and photos of their hunts - Also 18 Super Slammers had agreed to endorse my book and contribute photos... yet a few pals of Chuck refused to be included in Adventure Bowhunter - so I left them out.
Some question my decision to promote the GSCO Super Slam organization in the book and DVD.
In my opinion the organization legitimizes the accomplishment. As more and more hunters go for the Slam- it's best that an organization help track the accomplishment. Just like GSCO legitimized the wild sheep Grand Slam- I feel they legitimize the Super Slam.
Hunters now must register animals, submit photos and sign affidavit. Just like registering an animal in P&Y record book- similar rules apply to earn recognition for a Super Slam.
My DVD was released first- the book a year later.
Soon after- the judge threw both Dennis Campbell and myself out of the law suit and after more back and forth- back and forth- both Chuck and Grand Slam Club Ovis settled their differences.
I don't know the settlement terms- and don't want to know.
As for the WSF and GSCO ordeal- I wasn't involved in any of that- But I will say that a law suit takes two and usually both parties are some at fault.
Whether you like me or not, like GSCO or not- please understand that nothing was done in my DVD, Book or the Super Slam organization to hurt or take away from Chuck Adams.
I wish that my Adventure Bowhunter book included the materials i wanted included about Chuck Adams. but it doesn't and there wasn't anything I could do about it. The book is a tribute to all bowhunters and their passions for chasing big dreams.
It's my hopes that this is the last word on all this Tom Miranda & Chuck Adams issue. Actually -there is no issue- the hatchet is buried and life is moving on.
Thanks for listening.
Happy Thanksgiving- Sincerely, Tom Miranda
Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to you as well!
Has Chuck Adams ever posted on Bow site?
Until GSCO recognizes the SSDGS, I refuse to support them.
Jake,
Pat did an interview with Chuck a while back.
At my link.
I understand, but has Chuck Adams ever "posted" (as an individual) on Bowsite? Just wondering?
Seems most of the celebrities that have posted on here are pretty thin skinned and don't last long after a few flames. Tom always seems to reply when his name comes up.
That should answer some questions! It seems as a lot of folks here are down on GSCO. Im a member and appreciate the fact that an organization out there legitimizes the accomplishments of the hunting community. Chuck is the one that got me inspired to chase the Slam, but it's GSCO that has provided an avenue to research and record the journey. Personally, I see value in that. I guess others may not. At the end of the day, it should be about hunters honoring and recognizing hunters and not about us arguing over trademarks and copyrights, but i understand how this can happen. Sounds like everyone is moving on!
PS -- Tbe Adventure Bowhunter book and DVDs are great resources for anyone interested in the Super Slam if you don't already own them.
Thanks Tom. Class act as always. Much appreciated.
GSCO.... I will hold my personal opinion to myself for now. Yeah, shocking, I know....
Seems this thread comes up every 12-18 months.
Tom, I suggest you bookmark this thread so you can just link it next time so you don't have to type that again.
And it's always the same: I heard this, then I heard that, then some crap talking, followed by Tom explaining the situation, followed by the thread dying.
I remember when GSCO jacked up their members for $500 or $1000 depending on the course the member took back in 2012.
Crazy stuff. I have never considered "slamming" anything with regard to bowhunting. I killed my first elk at 15 years old with an XX78 "Super Slam" aluminum arrow. I respect, appreciate and support all those bowhunters who are in search of some pre-determined "accomplishment" goal measured by the number of species killed. I sympathize with those bowhunters who have turned their passion into a profession only to have their profession turn into a stressful grab for money and/or fame.
As a kid I wanted desperately to be a hunting guide and/or game warden. If you love what you do you'll never work a day in your life right?....
As I got older someone told me, "Don't transform your passion into a job. If you don't need the money then do whatever you want. If you need the income though, don't tie your livelihood into your escape. Hunting should be your relief, not your financial requirement."
I build homes now...and I enjoy it. I also enjoy the escape hunting provides. I spend lots of money hunting instead of trying to earn lots of money through hunting. I prefer this arrangement.
I've got nothing but respect and sympathy for both Tom and Chuck.
Thanks Tom for clearing it up. Im glad you and chuck remain friends. Aside from the late Paul Schaffer you guys are the best of the best in my book. Take care.
Found Chuck's article online. Link attached. Mostly a reflection but interesting.
Thanks Tom for providing comments.
I have enjoyed books by both Tom and Chuck. Also have watched Tom's video on the North American 29 (whatever you call it). There is no way that anyone can watch that video without being impressed by the effort and dedication required to achieve that goal. I recommend it to everyone.
Tom you are a class act. Thanks!
Thank you Tom. Your book and DVD are first class and I enjoyed them immensely.
I have met Chuck and he is one of the most personable bowhunting celebrities I have ever met.
Both guys are first class and accomplished a fantastic goal of the Super Slam.
Tom, thank you for the summary and clarification. Many of us admire both of you and and your accomplishments, but were curious about the subject matter. I, for one, was completely unaware of any issue regarding the Super Slam name. Thank you for taking the time to shed some light and provide facts.
>>>>-------->
Any chance of a re-release of the book with Chuck sections now included?
Tom,
If I interpret your comments correctly, all "Grand Slams" and all "Super Slams" were illegitimate prior to Dennis being chivalrous and making them legitimate? Nice rationalization.
And no, most lawsuits are caused by a greedy person trying to screw someone out of something they have no right to possess.
That's not the way I would interpret the word "legitimize," ie any Slam not recognized by GSCO is illegitimate. I view it the same way that P&Y legitimizes the harvest of trophy animals -- it establishes rules and serves as a point of record for the accomplishment. If I shoot a World Record buck and decide not to register it with P&Y, it doesn't mean the accomplishment didn't happen nor does it minimize that accomplishment in most circumstances (assuming the kill met the requirements of P&Y) -- it just means it's not going to go down in history as the #1 P&Y animal. I view it the same way with GSCO. P&Y and GSCO provide a service that does legitimize these accomplishments, regardless of the fact that they may have very different missions.
"And no, most lawsuits are caused by a greedy person trying to screw someone out of something they have no right to possess"
No doubt that conclusion is based on R. Hale's personal in depth statistical research.
Anyone other than me sense some anger management issues?
I guess you can also turn the situation around as well...if Chuck coined the term and owned the trademark on all uses of the term, does that mean nobody else can ever take credit for taking the Super Slam? That doesn't sit well with me either. It's an absolutely tremendous accomplishment and everyone that performs the feat should be recognized in a similar fashion.
lo,
If you think lawsuits are about right and wrong, it is you need to do some research.
No anger, just stating facts.
It is duly noted that you are from Alabama.
LOL R.H. - cudos to you for keeping cool every time I fire a shot.
When I read some of these posts I see $$$ for sure. All in my opinion of course, as I know neither Tom nor Chuck personally. I'm guessing many of the backers are in the same boat though.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. A+
Rudy
Didn't know Tom had a book out. Definitely going to have to hit amazon up and pick up a copy!
michael
You are known by the company you keep.
What does that mean realtive to Tom Miranda? A pro or a con?
Guessing a "con" with Dennis C.'s rep around here?
Tom Miranda is a class act. I've heard good things about Chuck Adams. I havent ever heard anything good about Dennis.
Thanks Tom for taking your valuable time to respond. Some of us do appreciate your efforts. Mike
Happy thanksgiving Tom. Its nice to see you respond on here. Just wish the circumstances for you to respond were different.
This thread played out exactly as I expected.
Actually heard the phrase used once in the 1980's by someone other than Chuck....I wonder if he wishes that he had registered it!!
I also didn't realize that registering the name doesn't mean that you "own" the phrase for ALL uses....clothing...bowhunting accessories....organizations....etc.
I do remember being in a hunting camp once where they talked about Chuck trying to complete his 29 before a fellow archer named Jimmy Ryan. The sense of urgency was probably somewhat related to the desire to be first, improving the value of the phrase....although maybe it wasn't registered at the time....
I believe that Fred Eichler's name is omitted also.....
Cowboy Code of the West, Rule #9:
"Some things are not for sale ."
Hey Tom so is Chuck Adams listed as the first bow hunter to take all the NA big Game !!
I have no dog in the fight, but think it's a damn shame that we have to trademark, patent, and legitimize our accomplishments pertaining to hunting. The days of being the first or best are gone.....now it's how can I make this the most official so I can cash in.
does anyone know who the first lefthander was to take all 29?
also the first lefthander to take all 29 that all made the book thanks.
I an thinking about registering the "southpaw Super Slam" but want to know who would be the poster child for the new accomplishment.
I've seen pics of you, Grant. I wouldn't want that poster on my bedroom wall......
In the latest issue of GSCO's magazine, Slam Quest, chuck is listed as the first to take the archery Super Slam. Fred Eichler isn't listed.
Sadly it is all about $$$$$$$$$. I guess that would go back even to the original article in 1948 by Grancel Fitz.
." I havent ever heard anything good about Dennis."
Dennis is a class act for sure. Good hunter but a better person. A God fearing man. Does missionary work and has helped many. A good family man.
Chuck has meant a lot to all if us as bowhunters so we are partial to him but that don't make him as good a man as Dennis and definitely doesn't make Dennis a bad guy just because he doesn't fear out idol.
You guys might want to ask Cabelas, Hoyt and Easton what they think on the matter.
Limb bender,
You're better off not knowing.
He is a pharmacist from Alabama and I think he owns some drug stores. He is the producer of all of Alabama record books for whitetails killed here. He loves sheep hunting and I think he is the president of the North American Sheep Association. He must have copywrited the phrase super slam and then Chuck came along and and wanted it for the na 29. I do know I first heard super slam it was associated with sheep way before and na 29 came along.
Curious, how many have actually,completed the North American slam? anyone know the exact number! I assume Tom does but he doesn't seem to join, in other than explaining his side and protecting his rep! and that's fine. So if anybody can come up with that number I would be interested in seeing how many actually complete it.
In other news, there is a fellow Bowsiter who may not be as famous as Chuck or Tom, but would be more happy with the opportunity to get home for the Holidays to see his Dad than he would be with completing any slam of any kind. Let's give the TV celebs a rest and focus our attention on something that's actually important.
Glad to see that Tom set the facts straight here...hope also that this issue can now rest.
All I wanted to know were the facts. I was hoping to hear that the two reconciled, which thanks to Tom's post, I got my answer. Thanks for all the effort guys.
Ridgerunnerron what facts were given we only heard one side to the story !!! Im so glad Chuck finished the 29 before the rest of the pack !!
