Life line while climbing up to stand???
Whitetail Deer
We are big proponents of full harness and clipped in while on stand, but I believe we are also taking a big risk by not being tied off while climbing in.
The prusik or Kleimheist knots appear to be very easy to tie, but I have a few questions.
1) Do you make your own life lines or do you spend the $80 each for the ones at the store. We have upwards of 10 stands on the family property and that could get pricy.
2) If you make your own, what rope do you use for the load line and what rope do you use for the knot?
3) how easy does the knot slide both up and down?
Thanks
James
James, you should be able to get the pre-tied life lines for around $30 or so a piece. I think Hunter Safety Systems sells a 3 pack for $90 give or take.
If you decide to make your own make sure you use a dynamic rope like what rock climbers use. Don't just use any old hardware store rope. The dynamic rope is designed to stretch and absorb energy in a fall. A static rope is designed to break your back when you fall.
The knot slides up and down very easily.
Yep word for word what Brot said
They are so easy to use....about the only time i wouldn't use them is on a ladder stand
I started wearing a "harness" 3 years ago and find it very beneficial. Lot's of added confidence on stand, but I don't get the "life line" thing at all. I worked construction many years and even today guys are up and down ladders all day long without a "line". Seems a bit much but that's JMO.
most bowhunters aren't climbing ladders, ladders are indeed the safest route to go but a lot of the guys are using screw in steps which are probably the least safe and wearing the large rubber boots makes it even more un safe, using a line with the prussic knot is the way to go, albeit you are going to have to make at least one trip up the tree with out the line to tie it off for the next climb's a guy should be able to make your own safety line for less than 30 bucks, I think I made mine for less than 15, and by the way I hardly ever set my lines up, and yes I know I should but then again I hardly if ever use screw in steps..
The intent is to install the life line when we put up the stand. We use a lineman's belt while doing that, so we will be tied off while hanging the life line.
Thanks Brotsky. I will look into some dynamic rope. You are probably correct but will check out the cost of making them verses buying.
With 10 stand locations and approx. 20ft each we are looking at approximately 200 feet needed, not including the knot rope. It maybe less expensive than just purchasing premade.
James
I watched my buddy come down the tree in his climbing stand. He keeps the strap around the tree connected to his harness and just moves it down as he goes. I thought this was a good idea and very easy to use. No lifeline required (but it is a climbing stand).
I recall reading that most falls occur when stepping from steps onto the stand. I know that was when a buddy fell. His stand moved a little and he lost his balance. He was lucky in that his screw in steps missed his eye by about 1/2 and inch! Tore up his face and needed stitches but didnt' break anything.
After my buddies fall I put ratchet straps at the top and bottom of my hanging stands. They are rock solid and don't move!
I have been making my own life lines but have been using nylon rope. I am going to get climbing rope next year...death is forever and paralysis can be!!!
I make my own.....even have them on ladder stands. About $12-$15 each....dynamic rope a must......remember to allow extra length based upon the diameter of the tree......if the rope is going around a tree with a 24" diameter, add 6 feet. ( pi x diameter). While most of mine touch the ground, it really isn't necessary.
Some people tie the bottom of the rope to a foot peg or a rung on a ladder.....which makes sliding the prussic knot much easier whether ascending or descending. However, sometimes I have raised/lowered my backpack with the lifeline, which can't be done if tied off.
check the straps on the stands, ladders and steps. I had a step strap to break on me last year. I was already out of the stand and on the steps. I was hooked up on a life line and only fell 3 feet but the slam back into the tree bruised my leg and back. the life line sets sold at the store were too short for my tree (big diameter tree) and I bought the rope at an outdoor store that sells rock climbing equipment. 9mm rope, 7mm prussic knot rope. at one of the bow ed classes I was teaching, one of the students was a rock climbing expert. he gave the class a few pointers and one of those was you need 2 sizes difference between the main rope and the prussic knot rope.
You really don't need a dynamic rope...
Copy and pasted from another hunting site: "On a 2-3 foot fall a dynamic vs static rope has almost no bearing on the forces generated. While climbing at various rock climbing gyms they all have static ropes for top-rope belaying, I've fallen 2-3 feet on static ropes many times and I'm still alive. Never broken anything but I did almost crap in my pants a few times with bigger falls (my longest static rope fall was about 8ft, belayer wasn't paying attention). While I wouldn't choose to fall that far on a static line, I did and I did survive with only bruising in terms of injuries.
While using a dynamic rope is definitely safer, they don't come into play until you're talking big falls."
If you do a google search you can find videos showing how to make them.... I don't use one currently but plan on putting them in my setups next year, I owe it to my kids.
When you first go up the tree, installing steps, sectional ladders, climbing stick, the idea is you have the lifeline looped around the tree moving it up, above your head, as you progress. It can be a pain, but so is falling. After you got stand in place you keep the life around the tree so you can be attached when you climb back down and when you return later, you merely tie off and slide the purssic knot up the lifeline, keeping the knot about you. They say it's easier to do this if the lifeline is tied off to the bottom of the tree after you descend the first time. Read your instructions carefully and have a cell phone, whitsle handy. Most falls occurred putting, taking stands in or out, or getting in or out of stands. Buried my cousin's younger brother-in-law last November. Left a pregnant Widow and a stepson. Former coworker this fall, took a header out of a ladder stand. He'll live, got a helicopter ride to regional trauma center. Since 79, I've had five friends and family need medical attention, resulting from treestand situations. One of the friends got hurt twice over the years. Physics class says we fall 32 feet per second per second. By the time you realize your falling, you're on the ground. Okay off the soapbox, Regards.
Keeping the knot above you, wonderful phone.
Started wearing a harness when I escaped with only a a$$ load of scrapes all over my upper body, when I should have likely been killed or worse been confined to a wheel chair for the rest of my life.
As I was sliding down that shag bark hickory I kept promising God if he got me back on the ground safe I would not have to ask him to save my stupid lazy a$$ from the same idiotic mistake again.
If you hunt out of hang on or climbing stands and don't wear a full body harness WITH a suspension relief system, you are BEGGING for suffering one of the most easily preventable tragedies that will be likely worse on your family than on you.
Wear a harness or spend the rest of your days hating yourself and wishing you had.
Wouldn't hunt without them...I live in a big rock climbing area here in wv and shops with ropes for sale abound ,,,but I found it just as cheap to buy them premade from amazon
Medicinemann - "Some people tie the bottom of the rope to a foot peg or a rung on a ladder.....which makes sliding the prussic knot much easier whether ascending or descending. However, sometimes I have raised/lowered my backpack with the lifeline, which can't be done if tied off."
Jake, we added a second prussic knot to our lifelines. Tie off on the top slider and use the second at the bottom to attach your pack. Regardless how much rope you have on the ground, you can easily adjust the bottom knot to keep pressure on the line while climbing.
Guys, this is why I love this site. Even with all of the bickering, urination competitions, and the TBM factor, we all pass on great information. In this case, life saving information.
I spoke with a fire and rescue buddy of mine, who also is an avid climber, and he seconded what snap said. Dynamic rope is great, but if your using your prussic right your fall should not be more than 3 feet, so static rope will work.
I knew the two ropes (load and prussic) should be different sizes but I didn't know that the rule was two "steps". I can get 200 ft of 9mm for about $150 and 50ft of 7mm for about $50, so my total cost for 10 stands is $200 vs $300 for 9 stands if I were to purchase the premade 3 pack.
Keep the ideas coming, I love the two prussic knot idea for tension.
I started always wearing a full harness and 'climb line' after reading some of the statistics here on this site.
To be frank, before this I rolled the dice and was lucky enough not to have fallen.
Recently I purchased a property with way more area and deer than I need. One of the pleasures has been having friends hunt the property - I insist on using full harness and have a huntable stand very close to the house to go over the proper use for people that have not used the system in the past. I even purchased an extra harness just in case.
Thanks to the contributors of this site for pointing out the safety issues and advocating tree stand safety.
Any good videos out there that demonstrate this? I wear a vest and tie off ones I'm up, but have never used a rope while climbing up or down. I can't seem to visualize how this system works. Oh and I have no clue what a Prussic knot is!
I bet there is a video on the Hunter Safety Systems site.
Pretty simple really; the safety rope hangs down next to your steps and as you climb you slide the prussic knot with your safety line clipped in up with you as you climb.
Jakes right, you don't want the line hanging loose but tied at the bottom step with a little play so there is tension against the knot when sliding up.
AZ
I have attached a link that shows how to tie the prussic knot. In essence it is a sliding knot that when tension is applied it holds. You have a static line running from above your stand to the ground. This knot is on that line. While on the ground you clip into the knot and slide it up as you climb, keeping it above your head. Once in the stand you unclip from the prussic knot and clip into your tree strap. When you go to get down, you clip back into the prussic knot and slid it down with you as you climb down.
James
Menards.com less than 35.00 each
Menards.com
less than 35.00 each. between my dad and I we bought 10 this year and every stand we find on our lease has one!
James, Why unclip from the prussia at all? The Prussic and rope ARE my tree strap. Just keep the rope above your head, climb your steps and step on to the stand. I'm never unhooked once I leave the ground. Jon
Then you can consider using a rock climbing harness. No rope to get in the way of drawing or switching to the other side of the tree, improved comfort, cheaper AND unlikely to get any suspension trauma. Crazy, but true!
snap,
Could you explain in more detail, or show photos....
Lots of discussion now days about the benifits of a rock climbing harness. Google "rock climbing harness archery".
Here is my video using a RC harness with my climber. Near the end you will see that you can easily shoot without the rope getting in the way. Plus if you would fall, you are facing a tree, making self rescue a little easier. When suspended in a RC, you are in a seated position, preventing the femoral artery (VAN bundle) from being compressed. The pressure is on your hamstrings in the seated position.
Some hunters attach a "tether" from the harness to the safety line; that would be helpful if I hunted from ladder stands or hang-ons, but not necessary.
This one I try to simulate a fall with the RC harness on. **Since this video I have moved my safety rope up to head height.** With the rope just tight when sitting, you fall less than 2 feet and it still does not get in the way of shooting 360 degrees.
If you fall while you are seated, you aren't facing the tree...but you'd simply have to rotate and face the tree...right? Can't you do that in many of the harnesses that use the lifeline...especially if the prussic knot takes all of the slack out of the harnesses "strap"?
Can't say that I have ever had the rope get in the way....especially if it is not tied off....you could pull it up (especially with two prussic knots...or if you tied the rope to the loop on your backpack.....)
Since the rock climbing harness doesn't have shoulder straps, couldn't a person get "inverted", because you are not hanging from the strap attached at the shoulders, you are attached at the hips....so you could "pinwheel"....not a problem for most guys with upper body strength....I was wondering about younger hunters, older hunters, and some women?
Nice instructional video!!! (videos....second one hadn't posted when I entered this).
With the traditional full body harness, how often do you see hunters wearing it properly? Every video I see there is A LOT of slack in the line when sitting. It is so easy to have it adjusted properly. With a FB harness I have had the rope hit my drawing arm/elbow many times. AND if you have to switch from shooting from the left side of the tree (facing if) to the right side, it gets in the way again. (My experience).
Lots of folks bring up the inverted issue, but its simply not going to happen unless you look like an upsidedown bowling pin. Maybe not even then. The harness attaches at the navel or higher when suspended. The harness tightens around your belly/waist when suspended. You're not going to slip out.
If you fall while seated, you would spin and face the tree at rest.
From reading up on the subject on the internet and trying it myself it appears to have a 99% satisfaction rate. Hardly anyone that has tried it in a stand would switch back to the FB harness. I really believe there will be a huge switch to RC harness for hunting in the next 5 years.
Good stuff....I wasn't worried about slipping out....I was wondering about a person's torso weighing more than their legs....thus the question about inverting....but I agree, it is a fcn of center of gravity.
I always put the loop of the lifeline as high as I can reach in the tree, and by doing so, it seems to keep the strap out of the way, regardless of which way I turn....but it is tight when I am seated....if others aren't doing that, it could be an issue.
James, Why unclip from the prussia at all? The Prussic and rope ARE my tree strap. Just keep the rope above your head, climb your steps and step on to the stand. I'm never unhooked once I leave the ground. Jon
Almost all falls from a stand happen climbing in or down.
"1/3rd of all hunters will fall at some point in their hunting career. "
If you feel you really need to "switch ropes", have two carabiners. Clip in with the second before uncliping the first. That is the PROPER way. But I'll admit sometimes I dont. I also dont move or shift my body weight during the procedure either. (Like moving my safety rope over a large branch.) I feel uneasy, but it is a small window and I rarely push my luck like that.
I went to REI and bought everything I needed for 4 stands.
I have them on all my stands now. HSS for $30 each. I will not be without them. I use a Linesmans line to install the stand and LL.
I do not work in a job that requires climbing ladders all day or roofing or anything like that so I need the safety factor. I wonder what the injury from falls is in those type of jobs.
We make our own using I think 5/8 &5/16 ropes I buy the rope in 600 ft. Rolls Lewis
"I don't get the "life line" thing at all. I worked construction many years and even today guys are up and down ladders all day long without a "line". Seems a bit much but that's JMO."
J. Scott Olmsted in the November 2014 issue of American Hunter (page 25): "86 percent of all treestand falls occur when the hunter is not in the treestand.... people falling when they are ascending, descending, or transferring to and from the stand.... stay connected from the ground up."
Exactly what JJJ said. There is no extra strap. Attach the line above you. The prussic knot slides all the way up and down. You're attached the second you leave the ground and you're never detached.
Here was Morgan climbing in her stand today!
Notice the life line going down her left side?
I put safety lines on ALL my setups. So proud of my two boys, they will not climb without their harness. i make my own safety ropes, it is not hard, nor that expensive. better safe than sorry.
