Land Management ideas and advice
General Topic
Ok so this has been an internal struggle for me for quite some time. I own a small farm (approx. 40 acres). It is about 99% timber with the only open tillable ground being up near the county road where we are getting ready to build our house. For the first several years that we owned it the deer hunting was great. Mainly because we put little to no pressure on it, plus the neighboring ground had little to no pressure (about 300 acre mixture of timber and tillable). Over the last couple year we have seen a huge decrease in the number of deer. Part of this is due to an EHD outbreak that ripped through our area, but I also believe that it is due to the neighbor allowing a couple of guys to hunt on him. Now I can't control Mother Nature and her ways of thinning the herd and I can't control the neighbors property because I don't own it. I can however control my land and this is where the struggle lies. My property is again mainly timber with a really deep dark creek bottom that runs down the middle. On top is huge old growth timber consisting of oaks, hickory, walnut, maple and other less common trees. I have really no issue with cleaning out some of the scrub trees and maples. I do however have a problem with cutting down the oaks, hickories and walnuts. Therefore a conventional food plot is probably not going to grow in that moderate to heavy shaded area. So I am reaching out to all of you in hope that you can give me some ideas on how to pull in more deer and keep them on or interested in my property. Keep in mind that I live in IL and baiting and even supplemental feeding and nutrition (i.e. Mineral licks, corn stations, etc) are illegal. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks
My first thought is you need more cover for deer to hide and bed in.
I have a farm but it is larger at 560 acres, but I think the same principle would be involved . About 10 years ago I did a selective cut. I kept oak, hickory, cherry, and cut maple, popular, and other non nut bearing trees . It opened the canopy up and let sun in and created thickets for deer to get into, while I still kept the mast producing trees and actually released them so they could grow a better crown and produce more mast . Get with a wildlife manager, or a forester that is open minded to come up with a plan that suits your needs.
Good luck
Harvest timber to allow more sunlight to the forest floor. It can be a tough pill to swallow but it is what needs to be done to increase your cover.
Thanks so far. I may contact a wildlife manager and a forester and see what we can come up with...thanks
how many hunters hunt on your property and are the Nabors friends crossing the property line what type of hunting do you let people do on your land. we have 30 Acers we don't let anyone in just me and son and limit are presents there. from feb. to late oct. we don't even go in it. holds plenty of deer. but we don't presser it and no gun hunting. you have a food source with the oaks and deer do like thick cover.
The only people that are allowed to step foot in there are my dad and I. We are a lot like you. From the end of Feb to Oct 1 and often later (3rd week or so of Oct) we don't set foot on it. We bow hunt only and I have never found any evidence of trespassing. We hunt it very sparingly and are very careful when we do hunt it. Just not sure what the deal is in there. We used to see loads of deer. Mostly does, but we always had bucks in there during the rut. I hunted it several times during the rut this year and saw very few deer.
Bowhunter374
These less common trees that you talk of could be hinge cut to provide bedding cover.
If you have 40 acres, take 5 acres and create a sanctuary with it. Do not hunt this area and never enter it unless tracking a deer. Make it a spot where your scent will not enter it when you are hunting the other 35 acres.
You can create a sanctuary by brushing it up with Christmas trees. After Christmas is over with, hook a trailer up to your truck and drive around your community and pick up the trees that are sitting curbside.
Use these trees to make brushpiles. Not only will the deer use them to bed against I have noticed that the does like to hide around them when the rut is on. The bucks know this and come looking.
It is all about COVER, COVER AND MORE COVER
Think back to when you remember high deer numbers, was the understory thicker? Check photos to be sure. As a forest matures the understory thins reducing the deer habitat and population. Harvesting can increase the cover and food across the entire acreage or in select areas.
I'm loving this! This is exactly what I am looking for. Please keep the info coming. I really am taking notes on this!
When the deer numbers were better I can seem to remember it being any thicker. I do know it was before EHD hit around there and before the neighbor allowed hunting on his place. So with these new hurdles to jump I need to find ways to attract more deer. Increasing the cover sounds like my best option at this point. Please guys and gals keep the info coming. This is great!
If you have some nice trees, consider a select cut in a select area (to make a sanctuary).
Have them leave the tops for cover, plus have them open up a small area or 2 for food plots. Diversity of habitat is key. You want cover, edges, field, etc....deer like that stuff.
Lease your neighbors property. This way you control the immediate hunting pressure on yours and his. Also agree with cutting some tree to make it thicker.
Just from what described your timber is probably to mature/open walk the timber in the summer were no light gets to the ground theres no new brouse! Your chiansaw is gonna be your best friend. If you already do not know learn how to identify trees. Walk the land with a State forester make it clear your looking to maximize wildlife habitat. Some foresters look at deer as a nuisance and just care about money that can be made off of a timber. You say your building a house have you thought about a outdoor boiler? You can use the trees you cut over the years to heat your home, save some money on your heat bill, and improve habitat!! You could cut your maples they seem to naturally reseed well and leave the oak/hickory or selectively harvest diseased/damaged oaks, and hickory. Good luck and be carefull.
Thanks again guys.. This is great info...please keep the ideas coming. I am probably going to be on the phone this week with a forester and/or biologist to get something going.
As dad leading the neighbors goes, we have tried that and they are not interested. They hunt it some and allow other to hunt it now. So I need to maximize the potential of my property.
Deer need a few things.....cover, food, water, and sense of security. .....if your property has them you will hold deer.
Cover. ...typically in terms of new growth from cuts (high stems per acre) is most important in my opinion. New growth offers both cover/security and food as the deer will.browse all the new limbs, brairs honeysuckle, etc. Its also important to have these areas away from places you will be frequently.
Food.plots are a plus as they offer nutrition as well as holding power and depending on whats planted a true destination in late season.
Still.....the most critical aspect of a good deer property is cover and pressure (or at least perceived pressure by deer).
I am definitely going to be working on the cover. The food plot may or may not be possible. I have a neighbor to the south that has some tillable against my timber. I am going to see if he would be willing to cash rent me some of the tillable along the south edge of my property to plant a good plot. As far as pressure goes, I rarely step foot in that property, but also live about 30 minutes from it and can't say for sure that I am not getting trespassers. Again, thanks for the advice guys. Keep it coming
I found that deer prefer white oaks to red and usually leave the Reds until the spring. Deer love soya beans and my 2.5 acres left standing will attrack deer year around.good luck brent.
The food produced in non acorn producing timber is 50 pounds per acre per year...I've seen less in some areas. Acorn producing stands is 500 to 1000 pounds per year and seasonal. New clear cut is 1500 pounds per year and plots can produce 3000 pounds per year...year round. So some select cutting combined with a couple 2 acre plots is what I would reccommend. One plot in the bottom and one on the hill. Feather the edges.
Bowhunter, if money is no object then yeah clear a few acres. I think the rule of thumb is 10% of a property in food plots. But I think the key is variety and offer a food source or cover your neighbors do not. As your well aware deer are browsers in one evening they may eat acorns, corn, forbs, browse, etc etc. The more variety you can offer the better. It could be as simple as killing trees on the edge of a atv trail or any opening for that matter and planting that into clover, or brassicas, planting fruit, & dunstan chestnut trees. Then with some added TSI work your creating more browse and cover. Use the TSI work to your advantage to create funnels/position deer. TBM actually made some good points!!
Might need to get another property for improved hunting. Some properties just do not lend themselves to much improvement. Same effort on a better property will yield far greater results. At times it is like trying to grow corn on thin soil. Watched it burn up year after year. Good luck with your project.
Just curious about the hickory trees you guys. They do have some marketable value but they have no value to a deer from my experience. I mow down probably 3-4 acres of garbage trees every year on my place. When I say "mow down", I'm talking hinge cutting and others are completely cut down. I haven't really touched many of the hickory trees but that is going to change next week when I fire the saw up after gun season is over. I want my entire farm to be one big thicket where the deer can hide and feel safe in. I do have water and plots in already and have about 10 acres that have been cleared of any and all garbage trees. Plenty of fun every winter running the saw and getting a workout in. Besides that, during the winter months the deer will flock to the downed trees to nibble on the branches. It's win-win for you and the deer.
Hickory is a squirrel tree......I wouldn't dump them all as they are still a good tree for wildlife, but deer dont do much with them (some people have seen deer eating the nuts though.....likely a rare thing).
A couple guys on the QDMA forum are trying to make lemonade with their lemons by grafting pecans to their abundance of smaller hickory trees.....apparently deer will eat pecans, so that may be an option too.
I've watched deer eat Shagbark nuts. I would say yeah if you have a hillside thats solid hickorys thin them, or for example 4 hickorys shading a younger oak take out a couple of the hickorys so the oak can get sunlight my 2cents.
Yes JEG...the oaks gets preferential treatment over any other tree and I have cleared out a few hickory around some young oaks for exactly what you mentioned, so the young oak can get some sunlight. I still have way too much hickory on my place!!
I have probably close to a hundred if not more shagbark hickories in my woodlot and the deer absolutely love the nuts it produces.
It I amazing to see them break that hard shell and work the meat out of it.
Bowhunter - I live in Illinois, I own 41 acres and its 99% timber. I have a ton of deer (does), and I get multiple P&Y bucks each fall on trail cams.
Killing them is a different story as I only have 1 way in and that can make for some tough hunting.
I have plenty of water, the property has plenty of natural browse/food, surrounded by large agriculture fields on 4 sides and VERY thick bedding areas on my property.
Forget the food plots! Concentrate on your bedding, thick cover and that means if that old growth looks like a park and you can see through it now - it needs to go!
Also do you have any trailcams out?
Food Water & Cover. This may be long but hope it helps.
You have the water. If it runs year around its perfect.
Now for the cover. If you could select thin cut leaving the tops it would make for some impenetrable cover. Opening up the floor to sunlight so underbrush could grow (Food) and if this could be done on the predominant up wind side of a ridge or ridge fingers it would make for better hunting opportunities. Getting briars, honeysuckle, sage grass, and other low browse to grow around the edge of your created bedding ground will help give it a better edge. Throw in some planted privet and lespedeza, maybe even cedar and you got deer cover heaven. 3 to 5 acre can hold a lot of deer. You may want to think about 3 of these on 40 acre. When you make these spots consider doing an x down the center for access. Bucks will use this to move about.
Now for food. All the above will create food but you still want a year around food source. A lot of things can work well in a food plot but for the money white clovers are hard to beat. You could mix them together so that you have different maturity dates such as Ladino, Osceola, Arrow Leaf, to mention a few. Keeping your fields mowed in the summer will increase the use of your fields. Lime, Lime, Lime. Get your soil right!!!! Long narrow fields with cuts in and out will work better than a big field for hunting. Have more than one field if possible at least three or four all spread out. (This will make the bucks travel from one field to another in search of does.) If you have a place for a big field and want to break it up some you can plant Sawtooth Oaks down the center about 40 feet apart and let brush grow up in between them once they get to a good size. (If you plant any trees you must protect them from bucks rubbing them. Especially fruit trees.)
Hunt strategies. You have a lot to think about and only you know your property, but keeping in mind entrance and exit, you should try to lay it out so that you can benefit from being as low key as possible but still being able to have multiple routes.
Good Luck.
Thanks again guys. This is a lot to take in but I am taking notes and plan to head out to our property in the morning before the turkey dinner to take a walk and see if I can start devising a plan for this winter. Keep the info coming...this is all great stuff!
I am going through the same thing you are. I have 60 acres I purchased a couple years ago in central IL. I had some old growth timber along with some creek bottoms. I was not a big fan of removing some of the bigger trees. I finally decided to try it in a small section of the property. I hired a friend that does select cut. I left some oaks, but sold the marketable walnuts and such. That was 3 years ago and I have not regretted it. A bonus was the walnuts brought a pretty good price and I was able to do a few things to the property I otherwise wouldn't have.
Good luck! Lots of great suggestions here.
I have 166 acres, 130 of it is timber with lots of oaks, quite a few hickory trees and a smattering of elm, locust and other undesirables. We have 6 acres of food plots including a 1 acre plot we did this year in the middle of the timber. 17 acres was in corn/beans until this year, we are going to wildlife vegetation, big and little bluestem and forbes next year under a government program.
This week we began doing TSI on 36 acres under a state program. I'm anxious to see how it will help hold and feed deer.
We have small creeks on two sides of the property and a small pond.
This is our second year of owning this farm and I was pleased with the bucks we saw this year even after last year's EHD outbreak. It's taken some effort but it's been worth it.
EDIT - LINK DOESN'T WORK SEE NEXT THREAD.
Get this book! It talks about landscaping for deer. BC
We'll try that again!!! BC
Hack and Squirt to deaden trash trees like hackberry and elm this will create natures food plot
I can't say what and where and exactly which to cut. But, as a forester, I can say that Indianaforster and Gobbler said it. So did most others.
Deer habitat isn't food plots. It is uneven aged forests or clear cuts. If you don't have the browse, you don't have deer habitat. As simple as that. It will and does dictate carrying capacity and is the defining variable of your lands carrying capacity. I know at only 40 acres that sounds weird but, think of it this way. If you had 40 acres of ideal habitat, the deer that are frequenting your neighbors property will begin to favor yours.
Get a forester you trust, walk the property with them, get a plan and do it. Like Indiana said, bite the bullet. You'll be extremely glad you did. God Bless
