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Whitetail Deer
Well here in Southeast Va the rut has/was dismal in my woods. I never saw a chase. in fact, I only saw 3 bucks from Oct 5 to now. Trail cam pics have been mostly in the dark and it was either all does or all bucks, never together. With December coming I always hear of the second rut. What is your experience with this second rut. Where do you live, and how do you approach it? My brother killed this deer on Dec 24th about 6 years ago and he was in a brutal fight just before he killed him..I really can't say I have seen a lot of rut activity this time of year.
Actually. it is pretty simple. What you see is not always what is happening. if you happen to get hit with a warm spell during the rut, the activity becomes mostly nocturnal. Therefore, you don't see much. There are other factors that make the rut appear non-existent. However, it still happens.
Then, approximately 28-days later, those does not bred, will cycle again and the same factors apply. of course, you must also take into account that probably over 50% of the does have been bred...quite often, well above 50%. So the total number of does available to rut is decreased.
It is not unusual to see serious chasing in the so- called second rut and there may even be a slight third phase.
So there it is in a nutshell. What you see isn't always what is happening. All you can do is hunt.
My experience parallels bowriter's. We generally get some serious rutting in the first week to the second week of Nov. here. Then about the last of Nov. until first week of Dec. we see it again.
Food supply plays a huge roll in the rut and what you will see during the rut. When deer can fill up in 10 minutes they will have more energy and more time on their feet to run and rut. When it takes them 4 hours to fill up not so much. Horn rubs and scrapes are everywhere when their is lots of food and completely absent when there is very little food.
Don't forget all the does that may have been killed during your gun season if it just so happens to fall between the initial rut and the second phase like it does in my state. I don't know when VA's gun seasons are, but when you factor in all the dead deer and those already bred, it is generally not real promising.
There usually end up being a few fawns (or at least what appear to be fawns) that will come in and create a stir with the bucks, but it is very sporadic here. Only a few years have I actually seen chasing during this rut. If you hunt areas with a lot of deer, chances are much much better though.
If does didn't get bred in the normal cycle you have too many does and/or not enough bucks! Common in lots of places. Where I hunt in the Midwest most does are bred normally since herds are target managed to 3 does to 1 buck. We actually are fortunate to have a "fawn rut" which can happen on a limited basis any time after December 1! Wild and crazy for sure! Good luck in late season! C
Add together what Charlie and Bowriter said and that's it in a nutshell. I've seen fawns get bred in January also.
Now this is the Bowsite I remember! Mike
Jan 1, 1986 on the Marine Corps Logistics Base, Albany, Ga I was bow hunting and caught a lone hot doe with five bucks on her heels. That was wild and crazy.
I don't mean for this to sound flippant. So, please don't take it that way. In 45 years of climbing trees, I've heard it all. Its around the corner, almost, not quite, nearly, any day now. 1st , 2nd and even 3rd weeks of November. The Pre-rut, it's post rut, its 2nd rut time. The Rut Is on, the rut is over? The Rut was none existent this year! It was too hot too windy, too rainy too fridged, too crowded. In all my years I've witnessed the chase phase 5 or 6 times, all but one in Kansas. I'll admit most of my home state hunting isn't the best terrain for eyeball witnessing the chase phase. Never the less 45 years in pretty good whitetail country and countless hours on stand and only 5 or 6 encounters. My point is, we as hunters put far to much stock in "The Rut". Rutting activity starts sometime in October, usually and ends sometime in February, mostly. I hunt every chance I can and in late October I hunt a bunch straight through to December and as much as I can get away with till January 15th. I know that every late spring fawns are born and bunches of them. When were they sired? I have no clue, probably last November sometime. So there must have been a rut for them to be here. I just never witnessed it personally. How could that be, hum?
I'm in WV. The mast crop was good this year. Deer haven't been in the fields as much. We got some decent bucks on trail cam until about 2 weeks ago and they just kind of disappeared. More scrape and rub activity than I've seen for a while. I saw some young bucks chasing, but that's been it. Several years ago we got a trail cam pic of a buck that had she his antlers breeding a die in late January. The only thing I can say, is unpredictable, just hunt!
She= shed Die= doe
Dumb smart phone
like charlie & bowriter, our rut ( in eastern N.C.)stars first of oct, you will see some rut actative until the bucks drop their antlers, a big rut in janurary & feburary when the fawns go in estrus.Forrest
Drahthaar, I never saw rut activity in the 5 years I lived in New Bern. They used to let the Deer Dogs run starting 1 Oct, and after that, most activity was strictly nocturnal on Public Land. ( didn't have access to any private land down there )
Luckily, here in eastern Virginia, the Deer Dogs are not unleashed until mid November, so you can usually spot some rut activity.
The rut is not at all complicated. The time the first does come into heat may vary depending on where you live. In my part of TN, it is not uncommon to see a few does cycle in mid-late Oct. Our rut peaks sometimes within the first 14-21 days of Nov. It will not vary 10-days from year to year.
Each and every unbred doe over 6-months of age, will then cycle again in 28-days. Some of those still unbred and the 25% of the doe fawns at about 6-mos. of age will then cycle again. Nutrition plays an important part in just how many does cycle that third time.
Now, as I said earlier, you cannot plot your rut by what you see. The most accurate way to do it is by fetal age records and fawning dates. A fawn will be born just about seven months after conception. And, those fawns will be born at a time Ma Nature determined they can survive and the doe can get sufficient nutrition.
In parts of the deep South, the rut may peak as late as mid to late January. On many occasions I have seen bucks with hard antlers chasing during turkey season. So there are always anomalies.
But if you want to know when the peak of the rut is in your area, simply ask your state wildlife biologist. If you see absolutely no rutting activity, don't be surprised. however, it is going on. You simply cannot believe what you see unless you are out all night, too.
In 60-years of deer hunting, I have seen hard chasing on a fairly regular basis. Obviously, if you live in more open country, you will see more of it. if you hunt strictly hardwoods and thickets, you will see very little. Also, just as sidebar, don't put any significance in the number or lack of scrapes and rubs. You can tell nothing about the amount of chasing you are going to see by that.
I know very close to when does were bred based on when they have their fawns. August 5 is about the earliest I've seen the little ones and I've seen does still carrying August 15 but that is about the latest. 202 is the average gestation period so I just count back.
My Interpretation of the rut.
The Alabama Rut might possibly be the most messed up Rut of all. From one end to the other you can find deer in the rut from Oct - Feb. Not kidding. We have so many different stocks of deer from different states that they peak at different times. Fact.
I live in Central Alabama and every year you will see the first scrapes appear in the second week of Nov. I have seen bucks chase does this time of year but it's usually small bucks harassing and hoping. From this point it is hit and miss. I like Dec. best and I feel like the most breeding occurs at this time. Usually the first or second week.
I look at the rut in a simple way. If, in the area I am hunting the bucks are laying down scrapes, then they are hunting a doe and will work them a lot during this time.
If the scrapes go cold and have not been worked, then they are with a doe somewhere. If you are lucky and can get in the right doe bed area that day you could be in for a great day of chasing, tending and maybe you will get even more lucky and see the actual act of breeding. I have witnessed this twice in my life.
This can last three to five days depending on what time the buck or bucks hooks up with her and start tending. She is receptive for about 72 hours from what biologist have learned. Watching several bucks chasing each other around to have the doe for themselves is awesome and exciting. I once watched 17 bucks chasing two different does in one creek bottom.
In between these short spans the bucks will still be searching and scraping some in hopes of finding a straggler but most will go back to a feed and bed pattern.
It's like a light switch going on and off.
I have the 10th thru the 17th of Dec. circled.. This season I saw lots of young bucks looking the 4th of Nov. to about the 10th. Then is quiet down quite a bit after that(lock down IMO) and pickup up again the 15th Nov. for a brief 3 or 4 days. I saw 3 bucks yesterday pushing a doe. I truly believe the deer herd in my part of Va. has adapted to the past 20+ years of muzzle loading season during the pre and peak rut, has altered our fawn birth dates. I've seen new born as early as late May and late as July. I think this explains why our rut trickles along till late Dec.
I've been seeing rutting activity here from October 26th through yesterday. I suspect I'll see some more this weekend. Chasing, scraping, rubbing, fighting, and breeding. I've seen it all. Bowriter hit on an important point. I live in very open country. It's quite common here to see bucks chasing does out in the wide open at noon anytime during November.
Haven't see a lot big bucks this year but on Nov 8th I had the pleasure to see some deer porn behind my house. I was sitting in my stand when a oung doe came in and a few minutes later an eight point buck eased in. It saw the doe and went into a bird dog mode, low profile, head stretched out and took 3-4 quick steps. The doe kept on eating acorns and he stopped and did the same. Then he looked up toward her and acted like it was the first time he had seen her and did the birddog point thing. this happened twice more and the last time she raised her tail kinda crooked off to the side and he came right on in. There was a fallen tree in front of him and he crawled over it, not around to get to her. He smelled her and mounted her and it took all but about 10 seconds and it was over for that round. I have seen them together all week. He is not the big boy in the area so I just enjoyed the show. We should be in the second rut around Nov. 30th to Dec. 3rd, good luck.
Jan 3, 2012 I'm sitting in a tri-pod amongst some pines in Northern Illinois and all of the sudden a big commotion is coming my way in the bitter cold. A scared to death doe fawn stops right near my tripod followed by over 30 bucks which all stop right around me with heavy breathing coming out of their nostrils! That is a sight I will never forget!! That is the fawn rut and I understand most guys will never experience that but in seriously managed Midwest properties it happens! Nothing quite like the whitetail!! Good luck late season, just getting good now:)
"seriously managed Midwest properties"
ahh how I long for a new seriously managed midwest property...
Last year i didnt see squat during the whole second week of november when i took off expecting to catch the rut. Cams didnt show much cruising activity except for young bucks before or after that. Then on December 7th, i shot a 130" 4-1/5 yr old the first saturday of rifle at 950 AM. My buddy watched him protecting "his" lady from 7 am til 9 when she led him into a corn field a full 3/4 mile from my location. At 940, they stepped out of the corn, each shook themselves off, she went one way, he went another. 15 minutes later, here he came browsing my direction. I went out that morning without much of an expectation to harvest a buck, but the right doe making it thru the "first rut" unbred and coming to the right area the right day, a "roll in the cornstalks" and a blessing from the lord sending the buck straight to me ended in my biggest buck to date. First time i ever saw "second rut" activity here in PA, but i believe in it now...
I got this picture on my trail cam quite a few years ago. It was captured in late February.
It looks to me like a late born fawn. I'm guessing he is at the most 5 months old? If so that means he was born in October. Gestation period is about 7 mths so that means he was conceived in March?
I know its a "he" because I was able to observe him until spring green up and I noted buttons on his head. He was very small and I had no problem picking him out in the groups of deer. He survived into june and that's the last I saw of him. But he appeared otherwise healthy at that time.
The area where this happened was a high deer density area. Further more there were a lot of does, and not a lot of bucks.
I surmised that fawns like this are due to doe's not getting bred during the normal time. There were simply not enough bucks to breed all the does that would come into estrus in a short time frame. So perhaps some does didn't get bred the first one or two times around and by some freak of nature they continued to cycle beyond that normal one or two times to perhaps three and four? Just a hypothesis.
I discussed this with a friend I made on the internet who raises white tailed deer for a living. He told me he had never witnessed an actual fawn come into estrus, but that the doe's he saw come into late estrus where more often yearlings that for one reason or another cycled late. He further surmised that perhaps the yearlings that cycled late were themselves late born and therefore they didn't reach maturity at the same time as the others. Makes sense if you think about it.
In any case I've witnessed late season rut activity enough to know it happens.
Heres another spotted fawn picture taken in early march.
If you think about it, its sort of a viscous cycle. Too many doe's not enough bucks leads to doe's having to cycle multiple times before conceiving which leads to late born fawns. Late born fawns leads to yearling doe's that don't reach sexual maturity until late in the season and should they conceive they too will give birth to late born fawns.
The rut happened....if I missed it I would evaluate the impact I'm putting on my hunting area.
