outfitter reports
Whitetail Deer
it sure is amazing how two reports on the same outfitters can come out and be so different after reading it what do you believe?
If you are talking about the 2 at the top. I just read them this morning. One was quite long. We had a discussion about this in my office. Makes you scratch your head.
I have been on hunts where I had a great trip and another guy in camp had the worst trip of his life. I often wondered how two people can be in the same camp at the same time and have totally different experiences but it happens. Good attitudes and realistic expectations.
Yes thats the one Im talking about bdfrd24v
Yea... I'd like to have a little QA with these two hunters. Just seems like they were worlds apart
Perceptions can certainly vary between hunters, especially those who have not been on an outfitted hunt before. For $5k to hunt KY as a fully-guided hunt, I would not tolerate getting placed in a stand on a road used by the other guides/hunters. Sure, anything can happen while hunting, but come on. Sounds more like a semi-guided hunt. I don't care as much about the luxury of the accommodations or if the food is 5 star. But I do place a premium on hunting methods such as wind direction, scent control and overhunting stands as well as general knowledge of the local herd. I have been successful and disappointed with an outfitter and unsuccessful and highly impressed with another outfitter. I go to hunt, hunt hard and hunt right. The outfitter should be there to help ... the rest of the recipe is a little luck.
I've been on a handful of guided hunts and I have had varied experience. I would say some often times people's expectations are out of line for a fair chase hunt. We are dealing with wild animals and while you can scout and pattern animals, things can change. That's why this is called hunting, not killing. Far too many people expect to kill an animal because they shelled out a few thousand dollars.
Looking at this outfit, there are five reviews -- three five star reviews and two one star reviews. All three five star reviews are from people who harvested deer. The two one star reviews are from people who didn't and it's no coincidence. People tend to gloss over issues when they're successful and every little issue can become something major when they are not. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.
For me, the most telling reviews are high ratings from folks who didn't tag an animal and low ratings from folks who did, as their success or lack thereof doesn't cloud their judgement.
I agree Bigeasy... We were saying in our office today. Nothing more telling than the high rated reviews from an unsuccessful hunter and vice versa. I've never been on a guided hunt. Thinking of booking one, but I'm taking every review, critique and recommendation with a grain of salt. I won't be measuring my time in a punched tag, but rather the quality of the entire experience.
I'd definitely take everything I read with a grain of salt, the good and the bad -- it's generally never as good or as bad as it's made out to be. I've had people call me and I think that's a great way to go as far as researching outfitters as well. See if you can get your hand on a reference list and give people a call. You can ask some more pointed questions and get a little more a feel for the person giving the responses than what a paragraph or two on the internet is going to provide.
You need to talk with someone you trust OR use a booking agent you trust. reading written reports is frought with risk. Who wrote it, are they plants, what is not stated, etc.
Honestly I use feedback from a few trusted sources highly and place no value what so ever in reading anaonymous write ups and not much more in speaking with strangers (which I no longer even bother doing).
the last four hunts I booked I never even spoke with the outfitter prior to booking, did some emailing with them, but I know the intel from trusted sources was legit so that's all I needed.
The vast vast majority of operations are solid and run by solid people. That does not mean the hunts will be great, as not all areas are condusive to doing well, but most outfitters are honest in explaining what can be expected. they don't want the headaches of misaligned expectations and the fall-out that comes from that.
One thing I have noticed is a lot of the problem hunts seem to be Rife hunts or cheap-o hunts. Another thing I know as fact is Whitetail Outfitting is one of the hardest species in North America to outfit for as everyone expects their best ever on these hunts.
Charlie - did you see the guy paid $4700 for a 7 day hunt...ouch!
Charlie i know what you mean when I get back from a trip and didnt get anything and I talk to a rifle hunter they always seam like you paid that and didnt shoot anything? then I talk to a bowhunter and the ask all kinds of questions about the hunting part of it not just the kill.
The way I read those 2 reports was that they were hunting out of 2 different camps. As the positive report talked about the owner and his wife running things.
Ask my wife and kids about their outfitter (me). Some hunts I knock it out of the park and some hunts I have to sleep on the couch! Ha! I think it's the same way for some of these reports. If the outfitter does what he can to control the things he can control then he's done his job. If he doesn't, then you have a problem.
I read the first half of the negative one and skimmed through the rest. He was cold. he as afraid to hunt up a tree in the wind. The outfitter needs to "inventory his deer and know how many are coming and going" Wah wah. Sounds like a candidate for a high fence hunt. He didn't like his Canada outfitter either. They made him hunt from dark to dark. What a shame. He left early. Now he wants his money back. Maybe if he stayed he would have killed a deer and posted a positive review.
Pretty transparent I thought.
Did you talk to references? With sooo many issues I have to wonder if the client did his homework prior to shelling out $4900 for a deer hunt.
Shoulda called Xtreme Hunts. :-)
If your follow that particular outfit on FB you will see were the beginning of the end was for them.....touting the celebrity hunters the are bragging about bringing in. It was all down hill from there.
Trial153 I have seen that with several outfitters I have hunted with they get all pumped about having them hunt with them and a few years down the road when they move on and the had there prises sky hi boom they are out of business with no hunters,
I can read those outfitter reports all day
Exactly what Dave has alluded to, I had some friends who went to Wyoming 13 years ago on a hunt. Everything about it was a mess and they left after one day. A bad review was left by one of the hunters. There was then a glowing review given to the outfitter. Seems the outfitters wife had relatives in PA and they gave the "what a great place" review.
The vast vast majority of operations are solid and run by solid people. That does not mean the hunts will be great, as not all areas are condusive to doing well, but most outfitters are honest in explaining what can be expected. they don't want the headaches of misaligned expectations and the fall-out that comes from that.
in todays world thing can go viral too fast to make a quick money grab worth it to outfitters generally.
I looked at the reports from KY and the thing that surprised me was 4 of the 5, I believe, were rifle hunts. I found that a little odd, assuming most whitetail hunters on bowsite would bowhunt whitetails on a guided hunt, I would discount some of these reviews because of that.
My experience in the business has been that most bad or negative reviews were based on expectations of the hunt. These expectations could be the hunters own mind dreaming up the perfect scenario or it could be the outfitter "over-selling" the hunt to the client.
Either way...if the hunt doesnt match the expectations, the client is typically upset.
I hunted a mule deer ranch in Mexico a few years back and first morning saw a 190"+ buck and couldnt get a shot. Later that afternoon saw a 170" 3x3 and killed him. Great food, guides, and lodging was typical of Mexico ranches. The other hunter in camp hunted hard for 6 days without getting an opportunity at a buck. Weather sucked and deer seemed to have vanished off the ranch.
Same camp...two completely different outcomes which would cause two completely different reviews of the outfitter and the ranch.
"I looked at the reports from KY and the thing that surprised me was 4 of the 5, I believe, were rifle hunts. I found that a little odd, assuming most whitetail hunters on bowsite would bowhunt whitetails on a guided hunt, I would discount some of these reviews because of that."
Actually, there are a lot of people who only know of or use bowsite for the outfitter reviews. There really isn't a comparable tool out there and bowsite attracts a lot of rifle hunters researching hunts. That's how I learned about bowsite in fact.
I don't think one of those guys would be happy anywhere........
Outfitter reports in some ways are benificial however in my opinion they are too often used as a marketing tool for the outfitter rather than an information resource for hunters.One box missing from the reports is (were you encouraged or asked for a report)you would be very surprised how many would say (YES)by the outfitter.Honestly reports that are solicited dont have the same unbias opinions.Quite often bad experiences are at the same time asked not to make reports.There is abuse of all medias perhaps some more details should be provided for hunters.Reports should always be voluntary and never solicited as they often are to dramatically increase report numbers.Some of the biggest and best outfits quietly go about business and dont solicit reviews that is why in some cases you see enomolies in the number of reports between outfits.Just opinion.
It seems like a majority percentage of the reviews come from brand new "members" who have apparently googled the search words "hunting outfitter reviews" and thereby arrive at bowsite for the very first time on the day they post their review. Which is probably why there are so many rifle hunts posted.
If you look for reviews from long-standing, well-known bowsiters who do lots of outfitted archery hunts, you will find that very few of those guys ever post a review of any kind. I'm curious to know why.
I know for a fact that some people go to an outfitter for a fair chase hunt and if they don't get their deer they get mad. They watch too many hunting shows and think they should get a booner if they pay for a hunt. I have seen guys in the same camp as me have a great time and not get an animal and then go online and write a bad report when they shouldn't have. most outfitters work hard to get their clients an animal but you cannot make a buck walk in front of a stand in the daylight if it don't want too. you cant change the weather if its 90 degrees and the animals are not moving etc.
I have been on many outfitted hunts and have had a couple bad experiences but they are a small percentage of the folks I have hired.
I see a lot of idiots in camps that have unrealistic expectations and I tell them to go to a high fence place and let them walk a 170 out to you so you can shoot it if you feel you should be guaranteed an animal. rant over.
I am inclined to believe Kevin. Nobody would go to the work of writing a crappy review in that much detail if there wasn't substantial reason to do so. I won't be booking with Joe anytime soon. I don't doubt the outfitter is a decent sort, but may need to screen his guides a bit more carefully in future operations. My .02. Pete
