Open letter to clothing manufacturers
Equipment
Dear hunt clothing manufacturers, We as bowhunters love the fact that there is so many specialized pieces out there and so many of you make some incredible stuff- thanks for that.
Please consider; much of this clothing we are buying sight unseen as internet purchases. The sizing and actual construction of these garments is sometimes hard to determine. Sure you all have sizing charts..and some companies do a better job than others with videos and specialized sizing diagrams. These are important to us.
We want to see someone wearing your jacket, drawing a bow, lifting their arms, showing how quiet the fabric is or isn't, how puffy the sleeve is, how tight it balls up in our packs, etc, etc.
Also, what about a few 'actual' examples for sizing- of a guy 5'9" 180 lbs, another 6'3" 235 [gratuitous plug for myself! grin] probably half a dozen of those would eliminate a pile of returns for wrong size. How will the sleeves fit on a short or tall guy? Maybe get a bunch of guys at a show to try on your stuff on video?
As I said some do better than others- Sitka, Kuiu for example have some good videos-though personally they did not give me complete confidence I knew exactly what I was getting.
What we need as internet buyers; Essentially all of the criteria we would need to purchase the right piece. thanks for listening.....
[forum guys, what did I forget?]
PM me anytime about Sitka Gear and I'll be happy to tell you what I know about sizing or system building particularly for whitetails. I currently get a couple (PM's) requests for sizing or layering each week from guys on Bowsite. C
Amen Beendare! I haven't had luck with tall sizes at all. If a company. Would actually make tall sizes that would actually fit, they would make bank!
Appreciate it Charlie....
Totally agree. I have stopped buying any clothing from catalogs. There sizing varies so much it is ridiculous. Got tired of sending most things back and now buy locally. It is usually cheaper and you know what you are getting. See you on the tundra. Rory
The clothing companies need to get rid of large collars that interfere with anchor points or have collars that can be removed or "snapped" out of the way.
One would have thought about this before offering it up for sale ..but not always so. I have run into this same thing with layering. I almost always get a size larger on the outer layer when layering so I know it will fit and with everything under it. Bob.
Please bring back small sizes,I'll start spending money again.
I had this same problem with a latex manufacture but then they came out with the Magnum line!
As it is I buy ex-large in everything and take it to a taylor for fit. Most every thing sold is "bubba sized" so fat guys can fit in it but guys with an athletic frame (wide shoulders and skinny waist) end up with stuff that's to tight in one place, to short in another and to baggy in the gut.
Of coarse I do get a chuckle from the chubby guy that shows up in his new Sitka stuff and looks like 5# sausage in a 3# bag hehehe.
I like the athletic fit too...but I'm 50's athletic not 32" waist athletic...
.....last time i had a 32" waist was in high school
Kelly, are your hands that big? :)
And 99% of you "camp" patterns are too dark.....way too dark!
If you they could chill out on the tiny mint/toilet paper pockets on every sleeve, chest, etc, that would be nice! Some of us make do just fine without pockets on our underwear too!
LOL @ Kelly!
I agree, they can do a better job with videos, pictures, and descriptions of what a product is meant for. They put all the things it's made of which mostly means jack sh*t, but many times it says nothing about what time of year or temperature range it'd be good for...
I'm 6'7". Tell me all about interpreting size charts. And, Big and Tall usually only means "big". Good thread Beendare.
Boots sizing is the worst.
For mail order stuff, I've been very pleased with the sizing of Core4Element. Their 36 tall pants fit me better than any hunting pant I've bought in 40+ years. The tops are very consistent and sized for a fit, active hunter, not a beer-bellied couch potato of the same "size".
To me it's a bit like a bald guy listening to somebody complain about their haircut..... =D
50's cut.... is that the one with the waistline pulled up to the ribcage and belted in???? heheheheheh.....
You should be sending this message OVERSEAS like China, Korea, Pakistan, Vietnam, Bangladesh, the list goes on and on and on.....
TD, I have a couple friends who now wear their pants like that. They also seem to have some extra material in front, like Obama's mom jeans. Where do they find them? Is there some sort of Old Fart specialty catalog I haven't yet recieved?
36 tall hunting pants........I've been looking for that size in hunting pants for ever !!! I have to check Core 4 Element out !!
I'm glad that I have a Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse just a couple of miles from my house. Normally, I would wear a large but find that x-large fits me better when it comes to hunting clothes.
What I'm hearing from many mirrors my opinion: If you really want to be the best hunt clothing company you have to expand your sizing...I'm sure it increases the degree of difficulty but that's what it takes to have customers for life.
And how do people buy boots from a catalog? Seriously ... don't you have to put your foot in to know if it fits?
"The sleeves are to long" said no bowhunter ever!
Well said Beendare! I find most hunting clothing is too small through the shoulders. It's amazing how the sizes have changed. I own quite a few American made clothes, including Cabela's, that fit great in XL. However, the pieces I've bought in the last 5-6 years, most are in the XXL size and, if ordered regular, are too SHORT! I returned a Cabela's wind shirt last Christmas that I couldn't get the sleeves pushed up over an inch above the wrist's! Makes my Large and XL tee shirts of old mad. I guess I could have went up in size but, they should sell what they advertise!!!!!!!!!
It goes for regular clothes too. One brand is huge, one brand is small per size. Boots included! Men's clothes used to be to a standard sizing when made HERE! No more!!!!!!!! We have joined the ranks of the women. By design, I might add!
God Bless
Maybe we all have gotten a little "larger".
"Most every thing sold is "bubba sized" so fat guys can fit in it but guys with an athletic frame (wide shoulders and skinny waist) end up with stuff that's to tight in one place, to short in another and to baggy in the gut."
Amen to that! Hard to find tall sizes in shirts and jackets (are you listening Kuiu and Sitka?) as well as backpacks.
I'm 5'7" and can't find pants that fit. It seems that if a garment is camouflage it's also one size fits all in the leg. I put my camo pants on and my toes don't even stick out past the cuff. Given how expensive even the "cheap" stuff is, I'm not spending even more on tailoring.
I've tried rolling them up like a grade-schooler, but now I think I'm gonna staple off the ends and treat em like footie pajamas
I've been very pleased with the fit on my Sitka nad Kuiu purchases. Their sizing charts are spot on. One thing that gets a lot of guys hung up is that these garments are made to fit more snugly than what many are used to. I appreciate this a great deal as a bowhunter. They aren't taylored for guys with bulges in the wrong places (Kelly may find the pants a bit tight in the wrong spot). I personally look at what the garment is made of and can tell how warm it will be from experience. The amount of fill of down or primaloft can tell you a lot. Whether the garment is polyester or cotton, merino, or whatever tells you all you need to know. One thing I'm 100% sure on is that the customer service of Kuiu and Sitka is the best there is. If you have a question before buying just give them a call. They will answer all your questions so you can buy with confidence.
How about a truly quiet jacket that blocks the wind. Most jackets/coats that have a wind barrier may have a quiet outer shell but the wind barrier is noisy when drawing your bow(moving your arms etc.)
The best I have is an old Browning Barrier Fleece pullover with windstopper sandwiched between two layers of fleece. Its reversible, Black on one side, and snow camo on the other. And the cuffs are elastic not a knitted cuff.
I have a good friend who is a top-level senior executive at Cabelas, on the apparel side. We've had numerous discussions about this, and he admits it is difficult to get sizing correct from the different manufacturers, each of which has their own idea of what the size means.
A few years ago I bought a pair of camo bibs from Cabelas (their private label). Supposedly with a 34" inseam, which is just ok for me if truly 34" from crotch to bottom of the hem. I put them on and the bottom was "high-water". 31.5" measured inseam. I called my friend and he exchanged the pair. Same deal. The third pair had an inch longer measured inseam (which he hand-picked out of the store in Sidney for me). He then explained to me that "inseam" doesn't necessarily mean from crotch seam to hem, but instead from where it "should fit an average guy".
He said with bibs the inseam will measure shorter than listed because it is expected that the crotch will hang lower than with regular pants. I told him I didn't like having the crotch hang halfway down to my knees so the bottom is on the boot, like ghetto jeans. He said maybe bibs weren't for me. But I have other insulated bibs that fit great, and the inseam measures where it is supposed to. He had no explanation except "sorry".
Moral - don't buy mail order stuff without trying it on unless you are familiar with the manufacturer.
FIt is one thing I wish would be better so I try to at least go to a store to try it on before purchasing. The big thing to me is for companies like Sitka; A great product line but who can afford any of the products? I am retired on a very tight budget. Give me a sale or discount or something and I would buy some of the clothes.
One of the companies gave a discount for Federal fire fighters and law enforcement employees. I am a retired Federal fire fighter but when I asked for the discount they said no, that discount is only for active employees.
Well, we can agree to disagree!
I like little pockets on sleeves, etc;
I like high collars;
I find that my Sitka fits great, If I intend to layer it, I buy a size larger to accompdate this;
I think that sizing should be ISO certified & standardized, so that a large from company A is the same as a large company X!
I do agree that something should be in place for determining warmth. My beloved Sitka falls into this category.
Sitka - why, oh why, have you discontinued the Kelvin pants? I found them new on the large on-line auction site thankfully and totally love them for cold weather hunting in upstate NYS....
>>>>------->
Ok, if we're going to have a clothing hissy-fest, might as well get my 2 cents in.
What happened to draw-string hems on high-end pants? I mostly hunt hilly terrain with a lot of loose soil, rocks, grass and weeds and do not like to always have to wear gaters in warm dry weather to keep crud out of my boots or off my socks. Such a simple thing even the military figured it out. Drawstrings also slow down water inflow for stream crossings.
I respect Kuiu and Sitka's layered approach, but when I am hunting in hot or even moderate weather, I wear one upper garment, and that has to have pockets. Not a jacket, and not a long or short-sleeve undershirt.
Regarding sizing, I make a yearly pilgrimage to Cabelas and spend (and how) a couple hours there trying on stuff. Agree mail order is a guessing game. One thing nice about ordering out of cabelas catalog is they have a lot of customers who aren't shy about posting in the comment section on sizing, etc, so I usually have a ballpark idea before I order. If I need something for a trip and don't have time to return (if necessary) for a different size, I'll order what I figure are the two closest sizes of the same item (e.g., medium tall and large), knowing that one of them is going to get returned as soon as I try it on.
I haven't yet ponied up for a $300 lightweight rainjacket from Sitka or Kuiu, so I don't know if they have the same 'wetting out' problem I end up with using lightweight Goretex. I hear the explanations about how it's the customer's dault for not ironing the darn things after I wash them in special shampoo etc, but the bottom line is when I end up with translucent sleeves I'm not too happy about the product and the money I spent.
Why is a lightweight down vest automatically an inner layering piece? Why doesn't somebody make a light, baffled (so really warm), quiet outer-layer fabric vest?
"clothing hissy-fest".....now that's funny right there. I'm tall and "athletic"....I won't say anymore as it's already been complained about.
Legitimate tall sizes for shirts and jackets. Shirts especially, I'm 6'4" and my Sitka shirts have to be 3xl just to be able to tuck them in a little bit. I'd also like them to cut their jackets a little longer as well. I have a long torso, so it can be difficult to find a properly fitting garment . Don't get me started on boots, I wear a size 14. Seems like everyone stops at 13 :(
Be nice if one could find some fairly priced cotton camo pants and shirts. I know many perfectionists will say cotton kills, doesn't dry, etc etc...but here in Missouri I am not hunting in the great white north and spring and early fall hunting is normally pretty warm...Besides, if you have good thermals and rain gear, cotton camo works just fine in cold weather.
Personally, I just cannot justify spending hundreds of dollars on a pair of pants and a shirt or two, even though I can afford it.
Cabelas is running sales on their camo clothing right now. Their basic cotton weave line has shirts and pants priced at or under $30 I believe. If that doesn't meet your budget in today's world the only other thing I can think of would be goodwill. Microtex line might be worth a look as well.
Sorry you guys aren't getting what you want in the larger sizes. This is one arena where you guys are at a disadvantage over a guy like myself, however, when companies do make said clothing, it is often times the only thing you can find on a bargain rack.
"If that doesn't meet your budget in today's world the only other thing I can think of would be goodwill"
Why don't you learn to read instead of insulting people? I never said I was on a budget. Just said that I cannot personally justify spending hundreds of dollars for a pair of pants and a shirt or two. Big difference.
You are allowed to waste your money anyway you want.
MT, easy big fella, he didn't insult you, he made good suggestions...
Thanks Surfbow. No idea that someone would get so upset over honest help.
