Wyoming 2014 Preference Point Data
Wild Sheep
Wyoming's Preference Point data for 2014 has been updated and is now online at the link.
One thing that really jumped out at me is this: The number of guys who have max sheep points going into the 2015 draw is exactly the same as it was going into 2014 draw. That means that none of the 16 guys who had max points going into this year's draw even applied!
Mery Christmas Kyle .
What do ya need pp"s for? Lol !!
I was just discussing this the other day. There's gonna come a day when one of those guys puts in for and takes a tag someone thought they would have a chance for.
Bill v
Bill,
Merry Christmas to you as well!
This makes me wonder how many guys in the next two total points groups did the same thing and did not even apply.
In the group with the second highest total, there were 66 guys going into this year's draw. There are now 50 of them going into the 2015 draw. No doubt several of them drew tags, a couple may have dropped out, but based on what everyone in the max point group did, many may not have even applied.
Same thing with the group with the third highest point totals. There were 79 of them before the draw and 60 now remain.
I'm sitting on 15 points, so after looking at these numbers, my chances of drawing before I'm too old to go are looking better than I'd been thinking.
A friend of mine is a point or 2 off the top holders. His point level is where the tags are being pulled in his unit. My point to him was. You never know when those guys sitting above him will jump in and snatch the tag
Good luck to you
Bill v
I'm sitting on 19 points for sheep as a resident. I also have 12 points for moose. I've been trying to draw an area close by. Hopefully this is my year for sheep. Not getting any younger!
Kyle you beat Robb this year he usually is the first to post it.
Craig,
I'm in major 'hunt planning' mode right now for 2015. I figured if the data was available Robb would have posted it. It looks as though WY just posted this, as there's an 'as of 12/17/2014' note on their website.
Good luck all! Hopefully someone will pull a tag! I really want a buffalo tag in a bad way.
"Bill, Merry Christmas to you as well! This makes me wonder how many guys in the next two total points groups did the same thing and did not even apply. In the group with the second highest total, there were 66 guys going into this year's draw. There are now 50 of them going into the 2015 draw. No doubt several of them drew tags, a couple may have dropped out, but based on what everyone in the max point group did, many may not have even applied. Same thing with the group with the third highest point totals. There were 79 of them before the draw and 60 now remain. I'm sitting on 15 points, so after looking at these numbers, my chances of drawing before I'm too old to go are looking better than I'd been thinking."
***A lot of NRs chances that are only close to max won't be worth a poop if the Bill being introduced in the 2015 Legislative session passes. The Bill will make the G&F cut NR tags by 50% and go to a 90/10 from the present 80/20 resident/NR split, with moose, goats, and Bison also on the bill! They tried the same thing last year and the only reason it didn't pass was because the bill included elk, deer, and antelope. Those will not be on this new one and it sounds like it will be a lot easier for the residents to get this one through. The fallacy of the whole thing is that it won't increase the draw odds very much for residents with the huge number that put in for them, but it will certainly take quite a few tags away from the NRs and drop the odds where many will die before they even get near the max PP pool!
Oh, great!
They charge me $100 every year just to get a point, and now they want to reduce the value of what I've been buying by 50%. That's false advertising. If a business did this, the legislature would be outraged!
so I guess, do I gamble that the 3000 guys ahead of me don't apply this year?
Changing the draw formula?????
Colorado has been doing that for years in various ways> just when I was about to draw a NR ranching for wildlife tag, they eliminated NR from the draw, then there was a change in the Resident - NR split, then there was more landowner tags coming out of the total, then was a few for youth hunts, then a special access program ,then few going to random draw. waiting for the next one coming soon no doubt.
I hear ya started under one draw formula 22 years ago colorado elk and it's morphed may times over. the only outrage is from a few hundred or even a few thousand NR and that's not nothing to pay attention to.
don't know if I want game and fish to run tag allocation like a 'for profit business', would think we would be seeing 30-50k sheep tags like Mexico and Alberta.
If this bill actually gets introduced in the WY legislature, I will fly back to Cheyenne to testify against it at the senate and assembly committee hearings.
I hope some of the rest of you will join me.
"If this bill actually gets introduced in the WY legislature, I will fly back to Cheyenne to testify against it at the senate and assembly committee hearings. I hope some of the rest of you will join me."
***It's already set to go again and it has a sponsor in the Legislature that will introduce it when they convene next year. All it needs is to be given a number when they convene and it will head to a committee that has to approve it before it goes to the whole Legislature for a vote. The residents feel that Wyoming should come down to the same type odds for NRs as the other states and this is not going to go away without a big fight, including the WYOGA outfitters.
Wouldn't WYOGA outfitters want more nonresident tags?
Kyle, introduction of the 10% Bill is a done deal as TG mentioned.
I get that.
But who is the sponsor?
Then, when the WY legislature begins the 2015 term, I need to know the Bill #!
"Wouldn't WYOGA outfitters want more nonresident tags?"
***Sure! That's why they'll be on the NRs side fighting this all the way. They already have a big article regarding the Wyoming Hunter Defense Fund that that a number of their members are already donating to in their Fall 2014 Wyoming Outdoors publication to try and combat stuff like this.
Gotcha Topgun. I will never draw a tag considering I am sitting on zero points. And not putting into the draw.
Someday I hope to hunt again in Wyoming! Good luck all! C
Sooner or later every draw system will change. With points, keep expectations low or you will be disappointed. I look at is a race to draw before things change and you might not win. Buy points in a power to draw status? Really? I don't get it! If you want to hunt sheep, apply to draw every time! And realize points are not an investment. You just have to buy into the Ponzi scheme cause what choice do you have if you want to hunt sheep?
I apply for sheep everywhere. You just never know when you might get lucky. I pulled an Idaho 27L tag in 2013. Got a dandy ram, and had a hell of an experience. I will be eligible to apply for a California BH tag there next year... Bet your ass my name will be in the hat!
The rules change all the time and it sucks. The strategy I use is to apply in spite of the odds. I mean, the odds are really crappy on ALL the sheep draws.
I stayed with some people in WY last year hunting lion. He and I think one of his sons have max sheep points, the other son I think is one back. He just said ya some day I will decide to go get my sheep, but not sure when. I can guarantee you again this year they will be max point holders that dont' apply!
Last year I pulled a tag in Wy with 15pp. I was concerned and have been that Wy would be changing things. It been 20 years now so look out. Well as I said I had 15pp , I'm 63 and thought I need to get this done before while I can still get up the mountains and before Wy changes things. So I started looking at less popular area's. I figured I wanted to hunt sheep so at least I stood a chance of getting a tag before the fore mentioned reasons happened. I put in for Area 1. All sheep areas are rugged but 1 has a rap of being the toughest in Wy and low density of sheep, but at least I'd get a chance to hunt sheep in my life. I had to go out twice and God blessed my efforts. My advice is try for less popular areas if you are not in the top of the leader board. All the areas have sheep , and you will at least get a chance to experience a sheep hunt and maybe tag one. Big rams are in all areas. Mine went over 170 5/8 BC. Good luck to all who put in this year.
I wouldnt worry, keeping out non residents means a big drop in revenue for them. Now what you might see is no other change except for higher NR application and permit fees. They like to slide that crap in the bill.
"I wouldnt worry, keeping out non residents means a big drop in revenue for them. Now what you might see is no other change except for higher NR application and permit fees. They like to slide that crap in the bill."
It's not that big a drop in revenue on those particular animals from the numbers standpoint of tags issued, as compared to deer, elk, and antelope revenue that are the bulk of the NR license fee taken in by the G&F. They also aren't "sliding that crap" in the Bill, but there will be at least one or more bills calling for license fee increases since the last one was in 2008 and the G&F needs to catch up and pass the inflation rate to have a stable income. Unless the WYOGA can muster up enough support to stop the tag cut it will be a done deal since NRs really have little to no voice in the Legislative decisions.
Massive revenue losses due to NR tags have not seemed to phase NM, MT, or ID?
The drop in NR revenue is not only about the number of NR licenses sold. Wyoming gets a huge chunk of revenue from the thousands of NR who don't even win a license and only gain points. The loss in this revenue stream will depend on how many NR respond to these changes by dropping out of the points game.
Right now the annual non-refundable fees paid by a NR applicant are as follows: Sheep 114.00, Moose 89.00, Goat 14.00. Throwing in the non-refundable fees to apply for Elk, Deer, Pronghorn and Bison adds another 176.00. This is paid by each NR applicant regardless of whether they win a tag. So the loss in annual application & PP fees from each NR who decides to tell WY to "shove-it" could be as much as 393.00 per year each.
Since there are currently almost 8000 NR in the points game for sheep, and over 9000 NR in for Moose, we're not talking pennies here. Just a 10% drop in the number of applicants would be a serious loss in revenue.
If they reduce the NR tag allocation for sheep & moose to 10%, that should all but eliminate random draw tags for NR. Thereafter, except for NR's who are at or near max points, only a mathematically-challenged NR would continue to burn money on points in Wyoming IMO.
Kyle,
Did you hit up any WY muckity mucks on this at The Sheep Show?
I wonder if they cut nonres tags if they will also change the proportion of random/pref pt tags in each pool? That would obviously mean even longer for those with high pref pts to draw. It isn't going to be pretty for those that have fewer than max pref pts!
I certainly hope this doesn't somehow filter into 10% nonres tags for elk, deer, and antelope! Wyo sheep, goat, and moose guides and outfitters are going to be putting a little less grub on their plates and $ in their pockets in the coming years! There also is the trickle down affect of fewer nonres bringing $ into small town communities in Wyo...something often overlooked!
Looking at the number with sheep and even moose points is amazing. What is amazing to me is the number of those with 1 and 2 points. Personally, I bowed out about three years ago with 11 points. Yeah, I could have stuck it out, and MAYBE in 10 to 20 years had a good chance of drawing a tag, but in my honest opinion, I don't see a snowballs chance in hell of someone just entering the draw to actually draw a tag. Certainly there are the random tags, and someone will draw, but after all the math, someone would be much better investing, or rather giving, their money to a sheep organization, or some other organization that has sheep tag raffles. The odds are likely no worse, and in the end, the money paid may be going to a better organization.
Anyway, it's their money, not mine. But I just really don't understand the logic of just starting. And with discussion of, along with the experience of how states do shift and change their plans with very little input from those it effects, or at least, with the input from those it effects not weighing very heavily. Regardless, good luck to everyone. On one hand, I wish I had not gotten out, as I would have 14 points going in this year, but even with 14 points, I really don't see a legitimate chance of drawing for 10 or more years still?
I do somewhat agree. But in the end its worth it to me waiting 20+ years on hunting a once in a lifetime animal. Im hoping to draw around 40 to 45 years old which is ok with me. I think a big factor now is just starting early. Alot of people have 1 or 2 points but i wonder what the actual statistic is for those with those points that will see through to max points.
If I were low on the pole I'd drop out and start buying the Wyoming Super tag chance $10. Cheap price for entering a sheep drawing. You still have to buy the tag if drawn but you don't have to upfront the fee .
Cliff- Are YOU going to try this now?
Yes! Have to wait 5 yrs otherwise,I have PP for elk anddeer, and antelope still and I will probably put in for super tags after I draw the above mention tags. I should draw a elk tag this year, Deer and antelope in the next year or so. After that if I want to hunt Wyoming I plan on just puting in for the super tags. At 64 this june, It's not like I haven't hunted these critters in Wyoming before, not a priority if you know what I mean. Other places have elk, deer and antelope.
