What could I have been?
Whitetail Deer
This picture makes this deer appear larger than it was. It was a basket rack 1.5yr old buck, field dress weight of maybe 145 lbs. It was shot during gun season behind my house and I snapped a picture of it as the hunter stopped on his way out the lane. Man it really frustrates me to see these young bucks taken out at that age, he would have been a real stud in a couple of years.
I don't see a pic...not sure if it's my phone or not...
It's obvious by the picture that he had good genetics.
Could have been nice juicy burgers served at a July 4th picnic.
Not everyone cares about antler size. I agree with you, I pass dozens of small bucks every year hoping I'll get a shot at a mature buck. Sometimes times it works out, most times it doesn't. I kill does for meat. When I see someone that's killed a buck that I would've passed on I shake their hand and congratulate him.
sorry it didn't meet your expectations....very sad indeed.
Pic not posting. But the buck had 13 points, not all scorable but it was a unique nontypical. I am sure the meat will be put to good use, but I would have liked to seen the buck reach its potential.
We've all been there on this one! Very hard to control others in fact I believe deer management is just a little bit about food plots/sanctuary and mainly "human management"! C
Charlie… I'll ad one more "human education"
A taxidermist told me about a buck that was shot on a club property. The shooter said it was an old buck that was running downhill and that was why it was so small in body weight. It turn out to be a 15 point year 1/2 old. No telling what that little buck would have made. Not many would turn down a 15 point.
If the buck was legal and he hunted it in legal manner (no trespassing, etc.), and you didn't buy his license or control the ground he was hunting on then you have nothing to say about it.
You hunt the deer that you like so let others do the same.
Not all of us get to hunt every weekend (or more), and many get out only a handful of times a year. With the bow there may not be more than one or two decent shots (or none!)offered in those few days so people kill the first deer that's offered to them. I have no issue with that.
Don't be an "Antler Nazi!" ; - )
Woods Walker, Being a resident of IL yourself, I bet you have been able to witness firsthand the results of people shooting every deer they see?
You know sureshot, I've lived and hunted here in Illinois for 38 years, and I've never, ever seen anything in the laws and regulations where it says that I have to check with another hunter to see if the legal deer I have in front of me offering a high percentage bowshot meets HIS criteria.
And what I HAVE seen in those years is a deer herd that has suffered from years of multiple buck tags, overharvest and overall mismanagement.
I don't think that berating some hunter who chooses to shoot what may be the only shoot offered to him in the 4 or 5 days he gets to hunt a year or even if he hunts for 4 months solves anything other than further dividing our ranks.
If antler-itis has that big a hold on you then buy/lease your own land, manage it as you see fit, call the shots (literally) on who can what/when/how based on your standards and leave everyone else alone.
Woods Walker - I am going to assume you are from NE Illinois. I do give the guy permission to hunt my land. He and his son can shoot whatever they want while hunting there. I don't believe I have berated anyone? The buck just had a lot of beginning points for a 1.5 year old buck.....frustrated not angry but frustrated.
Lou, I have the picture on my phone and for some reason I can't download it.
You give people permission to hunt your property with no restrictions then complain about what they shoot? Sounds good to me :/
frus·trate (fr?s?tr?t?)
tr.v. frus·trat·ed, frus·trat·ing, frus·trates
1.
a. To prevent (someone) from accomplishing a purpose or fulfilling a desire; thwart: A persistent wind frustrated me as I tried to rake the leaves.
b. To cause feelings of discouragement, annoyance, or lack of fulfillment in: She was frustrated by his inability to remember her birthday.
2. To prevent from coming to fruition or fulfillment; render ineffectual: frustrated his ambition; frustrated their scheme for reform.
For those of you who are inclined to think every time someone refers to a 1.5 year old buck being shot as frustrating means one is angry, you may refer to example A in the above dictionary copy. This thread wasn't meant to be a bitoh session, just a conversation.
Yeah Pat, me too. I shot one of the Midwest Whitetail hit list bucks back in 2010. Lucky for me!
Last year the neighbor, who I know is not a meat hunter, shot a 2 year old 135 in twelve point with split g2s ten yards on his side of the fence. I had passed him up multiple times all ready and once that morning. I know him so I went and talked to him and he said the split g2 and the way he shined in the sunlight turned him on. He proceeded to tell me all about his 170's on the wall. I said well next year this one was going to be a 170 I hope you put him on the wall too. He said he "might" do a European mount. I congratulated him and went on but idiots like this are frustrating. He comes up for thanksgiving and hunts on family land and he can't leave without filling a tag, but the day before he did pass the 5 year old 80" six point I was hunting.
he could've been that guys best ever, or some darned good stew as well. It burns me up seeing guys let deer get old tough and gamey before they kill em (kidding guys)
I tell you what pisses me off more, is when someone shoots a mature buck and then doesn't give two shits about the meat.
I'd like to see the pic of a 13 point 1.5yr old buck! (No judgement or opinion, just want to see the deer)
btw a yearling that dressed 145 is HUGE! YEearlings here run 115 to 130 LIVE weight. Many 3.5 year olds don't field dress 145
Greg, Send me a PM with an email address and I can email you the pic to post here. I can't get it to download off my phone. As I said above, not all points are long enough to score, but I think this deer would have been interesting to see a couple years from now.
Fuzzy, The ones I have seen in VA don't even look that big:')
Finally got it to post. As I said earlier, not all points were big enough to score and the picture angle makes the rack look bigger and wider than it is. Pretty neat rack for a 1.5yr old though, in my opinion.
sureshot, I was giving ya the upper limits, seriously...
I would have guess more like 2.5 year old.
Why do you say its a 1.5 yr old?
"Why do you say its a 1.5 yr old?"
I saw this buck in the presence of other deer more than once. Body shape compared to other young buck he was with early season as well as his rack. Antler pedicles were very small rack is very narrow and main beams very short. As I said earlier, this picture makes the rack look much bigger than it is.
Check the teeth. Only way to know for sure. Third tooth on a 1 1/2 year old has 3 cusps. Only 2 cusps on a 2 1/2 year old.
How wide was the spread? 15" is looks like. One heck of a 1.5 yr old and a heavyweight at that. My guess, and its only a guess, is that it's 2.5 year old.
I'm just starting a QDM Cooperative in my area. I'm promoting it to those that are already doing QDM, those that are interested starting QDM on their property and those that are interested in learning more about QDM. I'm focusing on things that I can control or assisting others where they are in control. Sounds like this hunter legally shot a buck - it's out of your control. Congratulate the hunter and move on. BC
Nice buck for sure! But I have my doubts he's 1.5.
You guys are pretty good aging a buck by a distorted picture of a head. I only got to judge him by seeing him walking on the hoof with other deer and laying in the back of the truck dead. Trust me, when I was younger I shot plenty of yearling bucks around here to compare him to, it is not the first yearling I have seen. I just had not seen a yearling putting on that many points before in my area, hopefully there will be more coming next year. Now, if I can figure out how to blow the racks up in my trophy photos like that!:-)
Okay, he's a 1.5 year old buck. My point is this: It's out of your control. Move on and focus on what you control. When you focus on what others are doing, what is out of your control, you waste a lot of time and energy.
Here is a suggestion, start a QDM Cooperative in your area if there isn't one. If there is already one, look at ways of helping to spread the word...in a nice, pleasant way. Over the last several years I was making excuses, maybe a little complaining, so I did something about it. I put together a QDM letter and survey, I mailed it out to almost 150 area landowners in Mid December. We are having our first QDM meeting in February. Exciting times for our area and I'm having a lot of fun meeting many of my neighbors for the first time. BC
Sorry it frustrates you, but I'd shoot that buck every day if I got the chance...but then I have to compete with wolves and poachers too, so there's hardly a guarantee your buck would've gotten to old age anyway.
I believe you can have the best of both. Grow mature deer and also hunt them. With a quality plan in place and some work. I hunt Ohio and hope most hunters take does for meat and let young bucks walk.
I will trust your judgment it's 1.5, but I would personally bet all I have he is older than that. I also think when it comes to judging age of a deer - we all SUCK, in a big way. Antler size, pedicle size, body size, belly swag, roman nose - throw it all out. I firmly believe it means nothing. Only a scientific post-mortem aging process can tell for sure. That buck could be 6 years old for all we know - I am serious. Even if he is 1.5 years old - there is also a chance it would never be bigger than 120", and the spike running with him could be 180" someday. Again - you probably are right, and if I was on a good managed property and thought he was young, I would probably let him go too, but we just can't know. I think at he end of the day, it comes down to your own personal choice and what's good for you or me, might not be same choice for another, so as hunters we just have to tip our cap to someone else's success even though it might have been a "pass" for us... Not worth getting upset over it, they are a renewable resource and if he was a true genetic freak - those genes must exist in your area.
GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN AND WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE- practice this it might help
I used to be in this what I call, "A Less than desirable state of mind.", being concerned and critical of what others shot.
True brief story.
I was hunting on our lease about 12 years ago. I hadn't got to hunt much, I was working for the feds and fire had been bad. My first tie in a tree that year was the second week in November. My next day was the day before Thanksgiving. At which point a big doe came underneath me. I smoked her. Got on the radio and was telling my hunting buds that I had killed a great doe for the freezer.
At which point a "buddy" of mine got on the radio and started lecturing/telling me how we wasn't there hunting does. We were supposed to be killing big bucks. I got down and WENT directly to his stand and we finished the conversation in person face to face. We haven't hunted together since and that was my last year hunting with anybody that has the same mentality. I am no longer a member of any lease either due to the stupid expressed in this thread.
The major problem with managing to grow exclusively big deer is the ego's that the hunters develop while doing so.
sureshot, you are probably a good guy. But, you are an example of what goes array in these management debacles. There really is no problem in feeling like you want more bigger bucks. None. The problem you expose is by letting the guy hunt, than critical of what he chooses to kill. If he had done it against your wishes expressed beforehand, I'd understand it. But, obviously not. Quit moaning and fix it or live with it.
I echo was WV Mountaineer and Matt Finney already stated. Bottom line is no one person owns the deer. If they aren't fenced in they will travel during the rut, get hit on the road, get shot by other hunters, die of injuries during the winter and so on. If you don't accept that then you will be upset a lot through your hunting career. it's nice if you live in part of the country where you can truly be selective knowing the animal stands a good chance of making it. In the northeast its a differerent story. I enjoy shooting nice deer just like the next guy but passing up a decent buck that is 2.5 or older in states like PA, NY, WVA etc stands to reason you will never see that deer again.
That is not a 1.5 yr old. The nose, hair color, and shear size of the rack indicate it is 2.5-3.5. If you saw a buck with a similar rack then it was related to this one.
Lots of interesting replies here....I am shocked Pat only had one guy get the age right on his guess the age thread. I would expect a lot more people to be able to guess age looking at pictures of a live deer, especially with so many people knowing the age of this buck with only a distorted head picture. I truly never imagined you could age a deer by his hair color, next level for sure.
This has really turned into a great thread, thanks!
If your going to talk about Lee and Tiffany, you need to start at the beginning. They started out with nothing except each other and a dream. Everything, and I mean everything they own, they earned themselves. You can do it as well, if you really want. It's called - Living the American Dream.
From above, "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN AND WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE", enough said.
BC
Those 1.5 to 2.5 year old deer are the meat and potatoes of hunters. I always find it humorous when a hunter complains of another shooting a small rack deer for food rather than the wall. Most hunters want to fill their freezers, and don't care about the horn porn horns, no matter how long you cook them horns are just to tough.
"Check the teeth. Only way to know for sure." X2!!!
Need some cheese to go with the whine.....
I'm shocked you think that deer is 1.5. Inexperience for sure.
Thornton - Inexperienced? Of course, last fall was my 29th season hunting whitetails in this general area.
Thornton, By the way, so I know in the fure, what color hair does a 1.5yr old deer have?
Gray noses are more common on older animals.
Thornton, Here is a link for you. By the way, as said many times, the picture angle blows this rack up a lot. I would put the gross score around 80" as spread was well inside the ears and main beams only about 15". You can look at the rack in comparison to the ribs on the floor of the bed of the truck and really understand the distortion in the picture. Dressed weight as stated above was maybe 145, that being the most. The largest body deer I have shot in this area field dressed 276 lbs. on the locker plant scales. Large bodied deer with large racks are quite common and I would guess an average 2.5 year old buck to be in the 115 to 120 gross range.
I understand where you are coming from Sureshot, it's disappointing to see a deer that you passed on numerous times get killed. I totally get it, especially when the buck has some neat genetics that will eventually translate to a giant freak down the line. Tons of time invested, food plots, stand setups, etc etc, but what can you do, its part of the equation.
Some folks have different ideas on what constitutes a trophy and if they are happy about a deer they shot, only thing you can do so you are not miserable is to just be happy for them and congratulate them on a great deer. The good news is those genetics are on the property so another deer will surface that should fill the gap :)
Seeing that this thread has turned into a debate about whether the picture was a 1.5yr old buck or older, I thought you could age this deer.
I'm still wondering how you can allow someone to hunt your property with no restrictions implied/written and be "frustrated" about what they happily harvested.
Turning a hobby, or something you are truly passionate about into a business is one of the best things you can do for yourself. That is one of the "secrets" of operating a successful business. I honestly think that LandT wake up every morning rip roaring ready to go and attack the day with vigor. I wish I felt that way about my business...
He's an 8 year old, one point grown each year. BC
Still remember a young stud buck I passed on trying to to do QM that one of my partners whacked. He was happy, and I'm sure the meat was better that the old mossyback I was trying to let him become. I shook his hand, what else are you going to do?
geneinidaho - Frustrates was a poor choice of words. Shooting young bucks hinders me seeing more big bucks. I do not get angry about someone shooting whatever they want to shoot, especially a guy like this that shoots the first 2 deer he has a good shot at. I control 100% a very limited, about 50 acres, amount of the 800+ acres I bowhunt. I am in an area with an abundance of deer and while I am the only Bowhunter on the land, it is hunted during gun season by guys that are happy to shoot the first deer they see. I gave up getting angry about what people shoot a long time ago, if I was angry everytime a young deer got shot I would quit hunting. I should have known better to post anything about a young buck on here. I'm done.
Im gonna go with 2.5 year old buck, and not the 1 1/2 year old as stated going by the weight if accurate, and rack. Only way to really know is pull the tooth and send it in. I do understand the frustration however if its legal, nothing you can really do about it.
This whole thread seems to be based on supposition. Sorry, just calling it.
If you stop and think about it; how do you even know if the buck would have lived to next year? Deer die all the time. Or, how do you know it would have not emigrated? They do.
Genetics (fwiw) is not the basis of antler growth, nutrition is. (Donne 1924) (Muir Sykes 1988)
Just be happy for the guy and son. If it really has to be a deal, step up and communicate with him what your management goals are. And good for you for letting a family have access to your property!
This very topic is why I based the rule I did on our lease about shooting a buck. (I am president of hunting club)
Rule on buck harvest. A person can shoot any buck he chooses to as long as he has it mounted. With the exception of a child,woman or first buck kill ever! Basically it created the philosophy what may not be a trophy to you may be a trophy to someone else!
If your going to spend $350.00 or more to mount a deer your gonna make sure it's a shooter for you.
More hunter friendships have been destroyed over stupid big buck management than all other arguments combined!
Get over it, they make deer by the millions.
When you were younger shooting plenty of yearling bucks did you care if somebody else was frustrated? Is it only ok for you to shoot yearling bucks? If it is a yearling, it would have been big enough next year that nobody would pass it anyway.
From your description of the deer and the picture I would have to side with the its a 2.5 year old bunch. But the only way to know is look at the teeth.
As far as killing a young deer well that is debate for sure. I do believe in shooting what makes you happy. However I think the majority of people want to shoot big bucks. Well if you shoot them young they will never get big.
Me personally I have shot enough deer I would rather not shoot a deer then shoot a young one just so I filled my tag. With today's declining deer numbers they can use all the help they can get.
