Contributors to this thread:
Whats the best way to determine a legal 50" moose?I've been told to judge by using the head as your measurement.Supposedly the have a 10" wide head so 5 heads wide and you have a legal moose.Is there other ways some of you guys use to gauge the 50" requirement?
Are you asking about Alaska moose? In lots of read if it has 3 brow tines on one side it is 50 inches. In others it is 4 brow tines.
Have been told that if the inside edges of the palms are wider than the body it is 50 inches or better.
Lots of times if the antler from pedicle to palms is bent downward it isb50 inches or better.
After 27 years of hunting moose in Alaska I still rely on the number of brow tines to ensure it meets the 50 inch or 3 or 4 brow time rule.
I have passed on many bulls over the years that I knew were over 50 inches but did not have enough brow tines.
Some can tell quickly without brow tine counts, I still haven't gotten the hang of that!
I was told by my outfitter that an Alaska moose measures about 10" between the eyes, so more than twice that on either side should be a legal bull. My Alaska bull does measure right at 10" center to center of the eyes. The one I killed had 2 and 3 brow tines in a 4 brow tine area. I estimated the width using the distance between the eyes. If you're uncomfortable with this, you can always do what elmer does, and pass on legal bulls even if you "knew were over 50 inches". Better safe than sorry if you're unsure.
Killing one that is not legal, even if you turn yourself in could cost you 5-10,000 bucks. Better be sure!
What elmer said! Brow tine minimum if you're not confident that he's 50 plus!
DJ
Mixedbag... if I say shoot... shoot. How's that? lol
We need to get your tag punch quick so I have all week to be picky. :-)
In all my research over the years the 10 inches between the eyes rule has been the most suggested method. I've looked at lots of pics and made the call and have always done pretty good. But my hope is that there will be no doubt when the 60 incher pops out of the willows.
This one was 49". Elmer what does your DNR do in this case?
I think about this often even though I have only been to AK once moose hunting. I knew they had to be 50" just never gave it much thought on how I would judge. Thought I would count tines and I would just know. This is before I had regular access to the web. So first day hunting my dad and I parked our canoe along the bank of the river and walked over to long slough just about at 1st light. This was a rifle hunt and my dad said I would get 1st shot. Well there stood our first moose. We weren't even sure it was legal. I tried for like 5 minutes to count tines at 80 yards while my dad was videoing. Since I wasn't sure it was legal I never shot and it ended up jumping in the water and it swam away. I left another one pass a few days later because I only had a side view but my dad shot it since it was coming straight at him. It measured 62". With our first moose on the ground we realized that the one we passed the 1st day was larger. On the way out we showed the video footage to our air taxi pilot and he said he would guess it close to 70".
Point is study up pics now. Head to Cabelas or any other place you know where they have full mounts and look them over.
Bear Track, looks like you are good with the brow tines! That makes him a "no doubt". Good looking moose.
DJ
I look for bulls that are no doubt over 50, flared palms, turned out palms, long outward side points, swoop or drop to beams as they leave the head are all things to look at. So if no 4 brow points, I look for 60 inch.
There is a good video on the subject on the AK fish and game website. I had a friend who shot a 45-46" moose in a 50" / 4 brow tine area. It didn't have enough brow tine either. He knew he was screwed. He went ahead and cared for the moose properly and surrendered it at a check point. He got a 500$ fine only. The biologist told him the judge MIGHT show a little mercy since he did the proper thing and saved all the meat the correct way. They also took the rack, of course. If you get a diff judge or if the judge has a bad day I am sure it could be much worse. Best to watch that video and learn a little. Don't shoot one that's too far off , buy I guess a bow hunter won't have that specific worry. If it's got the proper # of brow tines then no worries !!!
"I knew they had to be 50" just never gave it much thought on how I would judge. Thought I would count tines and I would just know."
That is definitely not the way to proceed. Kudos for admitting it. Hopefully others will learn something and have a plan ahead of time.
A compound bow is around 36 inches and a recurve is around 60 so hold it up and gain perspective. The "no doubt" method is good too. Have a great hunt! C
Bear Track. That 49 incher would be legal because it has the needed number of brow tines!!
Ziek I will use the "I was a young kid at the time excuse". I remember trying to count the brow tines but that is not as easy as it looks. In the 1 Herdbull posted easier than the one that has palmatted fronts like the one Bear Track posted. I also learned another important lesson. More binoc power is not better. I had a pair of 10x and was shaking so much I couldn't tell where the brow tines started and ended. I now use 8x and am much happier.
A few years ago I went on my 1st elk hunt and made sure I studied points and requirements until I was confident.
You know.... I had no intentions of bringing a spotting scope with me to hunt moose this fall. But after reading this thread I think I will. We have no weight limit so what the heck right.
Last year my guide would take a picture looking through his spotting scope. Then he would enlarge the picture on his camera and study the span. 10 inches for the eyes, 10 inches on either side he goes 30+. Add 10 more to both sides and you got a minimum of 50.
If close, the moose gets a pass unless brow tines make it a legal bull.
I'll bring my scope and will rig up my own digiscope set up for taking pics.I'm going to go on Ak website and check out what they have for judging.Mulepower, we r in a 4 browtine bull area right?? It one thing that gets me nervous about hunting moose there.You can give me the go ahead all you want but if its undersized I'm the one with the problem.Hopefully, the bulls will b so big its a no brainer
I was only kidding about the shoot if I say so. That's a decision the shooter himself has to make.
Yes... it's a 4 brow tine area.
Also realize that even if you have a guide, it is still the hunter's responsibility to NOT shoot an undersize moose.
Ziek makes an excellent point. I have seen inexperienced guides make terrible judgements about antler spread on moose.
If you are peering into a spotting scope trying to determine if a bull actually makes 50" (assuming you have already decided it doesn't have the required # of browtines) you are on a collision course with a bad decision.
Judging antler spread is Pass/Fail! And taking the test before the lesson is finished is bad policy.
We added the browtine portion of the equation to the minimum spread regs precisely to save you all the aggravation and expense that goes along with trying to determine the difference between a 49" moose and a 51" one!
Pete
I have met 2 guys that mistakenly shot moose under the legal size in Alaska. The first one was a guy I went to school with, thought he would do the right thing since it was only about an inch shy, he now says hindsight is 20/20. The 2nd guy was guided and had to leave his dream bull to rot, his guide sent the antlers to him the next year, he said it still makes him sick. If you asked them both today, they will tell you when hunting AK it is always better to err on the side of caution. I often wonder how many bulls get shot undersized that are left to rot in the wilderness.
Sureshot, I don't know your sources, but the the guided guy is now in violation of the Lacy Act. Those antlers are the result of a legal kill and will never be legal. In addition, he is guilty of wanton waste. The guide is not. How does that strike you?
I don't understand why they left the bull to rot unless the guide is one of those low-life types that we get to read about in our papers from time to time.
I have known several people who have made a mistake and turned themselves in. While there is a substantial fine it is no where near the 5-10K mentioned.
Correction: The antlers are the result of an illegal kill.
Some areas may not have the genetics for multiple brow times. I used the 10" to the outside of the eyes method. Neither of the bulls I killed had 4 brows. Let's do a test. Take a guess on the width and I'll tell you the exact number.
Mule and Mixed, I took a spotting scope. Saves a lot of leg work.
Here's another with only 3 brows. What's your guess.
Some locals in Gustavus told me they have measured several skulls that were only 9 inches between the orbits.
So, if you do that math, you only come up with 45 inches.
Personally, I will be making sure there is a lot of extra there.
One doofus shot a 45 inch bull while we were there that had single brow tines. I spoke with the game warden that cited him.
I'm sure it made for a much more expensive trip for him.
Best of Luck, Jeff
LKH - I don't think you could get the guy that left that bull laying to rot on a guided hunt again if you gave it to him.
I guess the first bull a little over 60".Second bull looks even bigger
NY. Moose are tough to judge in hero photos, but I would say 66" on first one and 68" on second one with those outward turned tines. Ha!
Lots of things I look for. Eyes is just one, width of the palms, if he is at 90% and turns his head and the palm meets the hump on his back, he is big (60 plus). Look at the main beam if it sags inches are adding up that way. Points flaring out. BEWARE of short palms. They may look wide but if they are short chances are they are not 50. Best way is to count the brow tines though. Good luck and shot a big one.
NY Both fine looking bulls. 70 and 68"
I'll guess 65'' & 70''. Both are great bulls!
Here's another one for reference. 61''
top 62'', bottom 73'' great bulls NY Bowman !
REALLY great moose! all of them, I hope im that lucky in september....mixed bag what unit will you and Mule Power be in?? ... If Wade Renfro`s Alaskan adventures drops me in unit 18 theres no atler restrictions from sept 1 -30 I dont know about my draw tag area unit 21E hunt DM837 (NON RESIDENT NON GUIGED AREA ONLY) only because ive not called to ask ADF&G I call them with all the ?s I have on being legal
MikeC
Sorry for the delay.
First 61" Second 66"
Both DIY drop hunts and both were shot on dry ground and died in the water. While disassembling them in the water was a pain, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. What's a little inconvenience on a once or twice in a lifetime hunt! :)
The first bull looks like it has 4 brows on one side, but actually it only has 3 per side. The one that looks like the 4th comes more off the palm. Just shows how tricky even counting brows can be.
Bigbears - right around 60"?
These pics make me drool. I can still recall the story of T-Roys awesome hunt. I think I'll go back and read it again. What is the thread title troy?
The 10 inches between the eyes rule works pretty good on his bull too.
Bigbears.. a hair over 60?
You guys are good 61. Man that one in the water bring back some bad memories.
Here is another for practice.
Tough when the picture is at an angle instead of straight on. His beams look to be drooping coming off the skull which makes me lean toward wider than it may appear. 58?
The lesson there is pay close attention when you have a moose looking directly at you and don't make a call on one that's not.
"Bucket List Bull" Mule.
Awesome bulls as well Bigbear!
First one 63" and 2nd 57".
I would be prepared for them to die in the water. It just makes sense. Up in Alaska the only natural predators are bears and wolves. When a big bull gets harassed or hurt it seems logical that they head to water and go out to a 4-5 ft deep, which is just over their belly, but swimming depth for the bear and wolf. Then they just flog them with their hooves.
Mule Power you are absolutely right about the head on. Hard to judge when they are not completely facing you, or at 90% in some cases. That first bull was 69 inches. Shot him getting out of his bed @ 25 yards. Had a three day pack with this one. The second bull was harder to call as only three brow tines on each side. It was a 4 brow area. Watched that bull for over 30 minutes. He ended up 59 inches, and only had to pack him 9 steps to the lake and the boat.
This one is about 6 inches wide and tastes great grilled
I only guessed your 2nd bull about 53-55" and would be worried about pulling the trigger.The 1st one you posted was an easy shooter The size of the fines really make you have to pay attention and be extremely careful.I would not have guessed it at 59".Maybe its the view I have of it
Mixed bag, This one took me an extremely long time to judge too. I eventually seen the points sticking out away from the main beams and that gave me the confidence on that one. Do to the fact that the main beams where as wide as the eye; then the point sticking out and then figuring the main beams length the decision was made. If that all makes sense.
Awesome moose taken congrats
