3Rivers Archery Supply
Serves Them Right!
cougar
Contributors to this thread:
st8tman 15-Apr-15
DL 15-Apr-15
Matt 16-Apr-15
sticksender 16-Apr-15
st8tman 16-Apr-15
brettpsu 16-Apr-15
WV Mountaineer 16-Apr-15
st8tman 16-Apr-15
DL 16-Apr-15
Matt 16-Apr-15
WV Mountaineer 17-Apr-15
DL 17-Apr-15
DL 17-Apr-15
BTM 17-Apr-15
WV Mountaineer 17-Apr-15
patdel 17-Apr-15
Matt 18-Apr-15
WV Mountaineer 18-Apr-15
Matt 19-Apr-15
st8tman 19-Apr-15
WV Mountaineer 19-Apr-15
st8tman 20-Apr-15
Matt 20-Apr-15
shade mt 20-Apr-15
st8tman 20-Apr-15
From: st8tman
15-Apr-15
While I feel for the home owners in this situation (I do not know their personal stance on California's ban on mountain lion hunting)I have no sympathy for the Left Wing-Liberal Democratic based California legislature who enacted the ban on all Mountain Lion Hunting several years ago. In reality it sort of makes you "scratch" (no pun intended!) your head, and ask yourself...."What did they really expect to happen anyway?" What say my fellow hunters?

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/videos/Gallery/all/video_gallery/mountain-lion-refuses-to-leave-house-scares-owners/sharevideo/4172369351001

From: DL
15-Apr-15
Dumb as dirt. I dare one to show its furball face on my property. If it has a collar I'd find a Bunny hugger's house and bury it there with a little fur lying around. I get sick of hearing people say " well they were here first". So what? The ones that really irritate me that say that are the ones that own animals. If a person isn't willing to protect there animals they shouldn't own them.

From: Matt
16-Apr-15
The situation sucks. but the OP should do some research before posting untruths on a public forum.

From: sticksender
16-Apr-15
Quote: "the Left Wing-Liberal Democratic based California legislature who enacted the ban on all Mountain Lion Hunting"

My recollection is that the re-classification of Lions to fully protected status in Cali was the result of a ballot initiative. Still a sad situation, but the Legislature had no part in it.

From: st8tman
16-Apr-15
Matt & sticksender, I certainly will take each of you for your word, and Stand Corrected if it was not the Legislature of "The Golden State" who ultimately allowed the Mountain Lion to gain a "protected" status. Having said that, at some point in time they certainly played a role in helping facilitate the ideal to even appear on a ballot for consideration of the peoples vote. Regardless, it is even more pronounced when the citizenry of that state were ultimately responsible for such an irrational designation. Thus ultimately it lies on the Left-Wing Liberal Democratic, Nancy Pelosi/Tree Hugging citizens who obviously have no conception of the role responsible hunting regulations/bag limits play in the overall well being of not just the Mountain Lion, but the entire animal kingdom. Thus we have these animals, who have virtually No predators in the wild, overpopulating........and winding up taking up residence on the curtilage of peoples property. It is certainly not the animals fault, for they are simply trying to adapt to a shrinking environment, and increased pressure within their own species to attempt to survive. The folks I truly feel sorry for are the ones who believe in responsible conservation and applicable hunting regulations, but become victims of these extremely dangerous felines! Live and Let Live may have worked to some degree when this Nation was a Rural, Undeveloped country. But industrialization and an ever increasing population has forced responsible hunting regulations, and educated conservation practices to become a necessity, so that we may co-exists with all the wild animals, and do our very best to insure they maintain a stable/healthy population. A prime example of this ideal is illustrated by the work of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, The National Wild Turkey Foundation, and Pheasants Forever. Hundreds of Millions of dollars (mostly avid sportsman's $$) have been dedicated to the conservation/preservation of each respective species, with responsible hunting regulations/bag limits and scientific research playing a key role in the overall well being of each species. Needless to say, anyone who participates on this forum fully realizes It Has Worked. Furthermore, as long as the Liberals will keep their noses out of it; by attempting to ban hunting, it will continue to work....simply because at the end of the day.....NOBODY CARES MORE ABOUT THE WELL BEING & APPRECIATES THE TRUE BEAUTY OF GAME ANIMALS MORE THAN THE RESPONSIBLE AMERICAN HUNTER! (Simply my opinion)

From: brettpsu
16-Apr-15
I thought Regan the Gov had something to do with it? Could be wrong.

16-Apr-15
Mountain lion hunting was banned as a result of the PEOPLE of California voting for Proposition 117. It was known as the California Wildlife Protection act of 1990. They weren't protected by the federal endangered species act as some here has stated. They were protected on a side note. A hidden agenda of the Bill itself. Camouflaged by the liberal leaning people who stated that the Bill was mandatory to protect wildlife habitat. It fooled voters and was passed into existence.

The bill mandates that the state must spend $30 million dollars a year to protect wildlife habitat. Regan had NOT one thing to do with it. Nor did anyone with any common sense. It was propaganda driven by organization like the Mountain Lion Foundation and the enemies of hunting. And, it took legislature to attach that mountain lion part to the bill.

The OP is right. While the legislature may not have done it as a whole, they could sure have amended it to allow sport hunting by now. As they have amended it several times since then for various reasons. Including the killing of lions that offered threats to live stock and such. God Bless

From: st8tman
16-Apr-15
I somewhat equate this initiative to what the Human Society of the United States tried this past year in the state of Maine; as they sought to outlaw hunting bear over bait, and outlaw all bear trapping. (They came daxx close to pulling it off!) In reality if these people would stick with their original mission of helping the overpopulated domestic pet population and all the associated dilemmas therein, they would stay within the realm of not only their original mission, but in reality their knowledge base. Because history has certainly shown us when they wander into the "protection" of bona fide game animals they quickly lose their focus; and ultimately upset the conversation measures that have taken scientist/biologist/game management professionals years and years to implement. Not to mention the tens of millions of dollars that have been spent in research/conservation. Can you imagine what would happen in Maine to an already robust bear population, had their measures passed? "Nuisance Bear" would become a household name! Property Destruction...Human Attacks....Domestic Animals Killed....Outfitters Unemployed......and Ultimately the Species would contract some Lethal Disease and spread so rampant biologist would be hard pressed to control it. Be hey, in their minds the animals are "Free!"

From: DL
16-Apr-15
It started in 1972.

MOUNTAIN LION FOUNDATION:

Beliefs Board of Directors Staff Volunteers History of the Mountain Lion Foundation Since 1986, the Mountain Lion Foundation has inspired citizens across the nation to act on behalf of lions and their habitat by presenting practical solutions to complex problems, providing unbiased information to media, aiding local activists, promoting lion research, influencing regulation and changing laws. 1972 Governor Ronald Reagan signs legislation outlawing the sport hunting of mountain lions for five years. 1986 15-year moratorium on sport hunting lions comes to an end. The Legislature extended the ban twice between 1972 and 1986. Mountain Lion Coalition is formed to protect mountain lions in California. Coalition defeats two bills in the State Legislature that would have allowed trophy hunting of mountain lions. Coalition stops California Fish and Game Commission (CFGC) plan to allow mountain lion hunting. 1987 Coalition files for non-profit status and the Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation is born. CFGC approves trophy mountain lion hunting over the Foundation's opposition. Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation files successful lawsuit challenging the lion hunting decision for the 1987 season. Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation sponsors bill in the State Legislature to ban the use of dogs for mountain lion hunting (the bill was defeated after the National Rifleman's Association made the measure its highest priority). 1988 Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation-produced study documents the decline in mountain lion habitat in the Sierra Nevada. Defying a court order, the CFGC approves mountain lion trophy hunt for the 1988 season. Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation files a second lawsuit challenging the mountain lion hunting regulations for the 1988 season. 1989 Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation's 100% volunteer effort gathers 680,000 signatures to qualify an initiative (Proposition 117) to ban mountain lion trophy hunting for the 1990 California ballot. Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation creates its Adopt-a-Lion program. 1990 Voters approve Proposition 117 which bans mountain lion hunting and creates a $30 million-per-year Habitat Conservation Fund. Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation-sponsored legal decision that invalidated the California Department of Fish and Game's 1988 mountain lion hunt is upheld by the California Appellate Court. Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation produces two traveling mountain lion exhibits. One of the permanent mountain lion exhibits is created by MLPF for the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy in Southern California. 1991 Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation publishes Preserving Cougar Country. Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation creates an anti-poaching campaign. Three Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation-supported bills are approved in the California State Legislature to provide millions of "bucks for bucks." Mountain Lion Preservation Foundation is officially re-named the Mountain Lion Foundation (MLF) 1992 MLF publishes Cougar: The American Lion. MLF files a "friends of the court" brief in a lawsuit that said the CFGC erred in protecting the California gnatcatcher as a candidate species under the state Endangered Species Act. MLF files another "friends" brief in a lawsuit that protects endangered salmon from pumping in the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta. 1993 MLF and other groups file a lawsuit to protect an important wildlife corridor in Coal Canyon, between the Santa Ana Mountains and Chino Hills State Park on the border of Orange County. MLF helps build the evidence for the prosecution of a ranch in Monterey County that hosted illegal mountain lion hunting. MLF loses a bid in the State Legislature to ban the use of dogs to hunt black bears in California. 1994 MLF publishes the anti-poaching book Crimes Against the Wild. MLF defeats legislation to eliminate the Habitat Conservation Fund, which was created in Proposition 117. MLF helps kill three bills to repeal Proposition 117. MLF helps kill legislative bill to eliminate the Endangered Species Ballot Check-off Program. Successful lawsuit by MLF and others keep the Mojave ground squirrel on the state Endangered Species List, which preserves an important precedent for the California Endangered Species Act (CESA). 1995 The California Legislature places Proposition 197, to rescind Proposition 117's ban on mountain lion hunting, on the November 1996 ballot. 1996 MLF launches it's No on Prop 197 public education campaign. California's voters defeat Proposition 197 by more than 16 percent. 1997 MLF presents first annual anti-poaching award to a deserving public official A MLF sponsored bill to ban the use of hounds for hunting bears and bobcats is placed in the California State Legislature (failed after opposition from houndsmen). MLF produces award-winning anti-poaching public service announcements in five languages for distribution to the media. MLF wins a legal decision overturning Gov. Pete Wilson's emergency order for a sweeping five-year waiver of the California Endangered Species Act. MLF sponsors a successful measure in the State Legislature requiring the California Fish and Game Commission to post decision-making documents on the Internet. MLF creates California Legal Advocates for Wildlife (CLAW), a new legal defense program. 1998 MLF files its first lawsuit challenging the inadequacy of the Habitat Conservation Plan for the North Natomas development in Sacramento, California. 1999 MLF successfully amends a bill that would have eliminated the mountain lion hunting ban that was established in Proposition 117. MLF successfully petitions the CFGC to list the Sierra Nevada Bighorn sheep as "endangered" under the California Endangered Species Act. MLF helps California Department of Fish and Game win a $3 million appropriation to write a recovery plan for Bighorn sheep. MLF joins with the National Audubon Society to develop and implement the Adopt-A-Species program to teach California's middle school students about endangered species. 2000 Coal Canyon is acquired by Californnia State Parks and protected for all time, providing a key link for the safe passage of mountain lions and other wildlife between Chino Hills State Park and the Santa Ana Mountains. MLF launches Lions in the Park program to educate state park rangers and docents. MLF and California State Parks work together to create a three-panel, color interpretive display. Judge rules in favor of MLF's case which invalidated the City of Sacramento's authority to allow developers to kill endangered species and requiring the USFWS to complete an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) that would analyze the effects of habitat destruction on giant garter snakes and Swainson hawks in the Natomas Basin. MLF supports the USFWS proposal to designate over 5.4 million acres of public and private land in California as critical habitat for the red-legged frog. 2001 MLF launches its Living with Lions program to educate Californians on how to coexist with mountain lions and to introduce ideas and practical assistance that will protect lions that come into contact with people, rather than punishing them for behaving naturally. 2002 MLF organizes, chairs and presents at the first-ever sessions on the conservation of mountain lions at a major scientific conference, Carnivores 2002. As part of the Living with Lions program, Wolf Creek and Indian Valley 4-H club members and MLF celebrate 4-H's 100th birthday by completing the construction of the first cougar-proof pen designed specifically to protect goats and other small domestic livestock from mountain lion depredation. MLF's Living with Lions program worked with local 4-H and FFA groups to build the first cougar-proof pen in Calaveras County, California. Working with the California Oak Foundation, MLF sues the Department of Forestry demanding they protect oak woodlands, which provide excellent mountain lion habitat. MLF, with other conservation groups, files suit in federal court and successfully stops the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) and the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW) from proceeding with an elk population study that involves killing at least half the mountain lions in two regions of Oregon. 2003 MLF launches its new On-the-Edge program in Southern California's Santa Monica Mountains to teach communities responsible ways to coexist with wildlife on the suburban fringe. MLF organizes, chairs and presents at the first-ever conservation session at a Mountain Lion Workshop, a scientific conference on mountain lions held by state wildlife agencies held approximately every four years. 2004 MLF presents information on lion biology and behavior to residents in Palo Alto after a lion is killed by CDFG and receives national media coverage. MLF educates over 200 Municipal Water District field employees in the Santa Monica Mountains on staying safe while working in lion country. MLF testifies against the Arizona Game and Fish Department's plan to eradicate all mountain lions from the Sabino Canyon. The last known male mountain lion (P1) in California's Santa Monica Mountains has a depredation permit issued on him after preying on domestic goats, but MLF fights to have P1 spared. Later that year, P2, his mate, gives birth to four cubs. MLF works with the Felton 4-H to build a lion-proof small livestock enclosure, preventing any depredation of their livestock before an incident ever occurs. MLF opens its first field office in southern California and offers presentations on wildlife corridors and living with mountain lions. A large cougar display created by MLF in 1996 for the Effie Yeaw Nature Center begins a tour through Iowa to educate communities after a few lion sightings raise concern and curiosity among residents. 2005 MLF begins a Living with Lions program in San Luis Obispo County, California, to help create support for local ordinances on land use and wildlife friendly neighborhoods while providing educational presentations in the community and training local law enforcement agencies. MLF starts Project Newsworthy to help provide journalists with accurate information about mountain lions. The program created multiple public service announcements in both English and Spanish to be aired when a sighting has occurred. 2006 MLF works with the Black Hills Mountain Lion Foundation to build a lion-proof small livestock enclosure in South Dakota to expand non-lethal husbandry techniques and help residents coexist with the recovering cougar population in the Black Hills region of that state. MLF publishes Human Exploitation of Mountain Lions in the American West analyzing the exceedingly high rate at which mountain lions are killed and suggestions for ecosystem recovery. MLF publishes Effects of Sport Hunting Mountain Lions on Safety and Livestock, putting to rest once and for all the myth that sport hunting lions will somehow increase the safety of people and domestic animals. 2007 MLF expands upon its successful Living with Lions program with the launch of Rural Partners to help pet and livestock owners in the Central Sierra better protect their animals. MLF takes part in Sierra Nevada AmeriCorps Partnership Program and hosts an AmeriCorps member full time to work on its Rural Partners program. MLF partners with the US Fish & Wildlife Service and Defenders of Wildlife to build several lion-proof small livestock enclosures in Naples, Florida to protect livestock and ultimately keep endangered Florida panthers out of trouble in their shrinking habitat. MLF begins its two year Safe Passages program, partnering with various agencies and the public, to institutionalize protection for wildlife corridors by beginning outreach in California neighborhoods around the Santa Monica, Santa Susana, San Gabriel and Santa Ana mountain ranges. 2008 MLF's Rural Partners program provides a grant to the Placer Nature Center to create a permanent display and provide education at the Auburn County Fair. MLF gives briefings on mountain lions to over one-hundred San Diego Sheriff Search and Rescue team members to increase the safety of officers, the public, and mountain lions. MLF continues with the second year of the Safe Passages program, recruiting numerous partners and spreading education through presentations and a massive community-wide door-to-door distribution of informative fliers about local corridors. 2009 An expansion of MLF's website takes advantage of more than 30 years of information, making information about mountain lions more easily accessible to the public with daily news article updates, opinion articles, and feature presentations in text, audio, and video. MLF's Cougar Clippings service expands to provide weekly electronic news and keeps thousands of people informed on the media coverage of mountain lions. MLF joins the popular networking site Facebook and gains over 300 fans in the first month. MLF and a coalition of Oregon-based conservation groups continued an on-going lawsuit against the Oregon Wildlife Services, and the USDA over Oregon's plans to preemptively kill off mountain lions to help elk herds. MLF joined with several other conservation groups to present written comments against new US Fish and Wildlife management plan which could eventually remove all mountain lions from Arizona's KofA wildlife refuge and its surrounding environs. In an effort to fight off a citizens movement based out of San Benito County to repeal Proposition 117, MLF responded to inquiries into the merits of Proposition 117 from both state and county officials, and appeared before the San Benito County Fish and Game Commission to answer a public inquiry into the threat mountain lions pose to that county's citizens. MLF provides an educational workshop for the Santa Paula Police Department after the "public safety" killing of a 15-pound lion kitten. MLF worked with the Black Hills Mountain Lion Foundation to help stop Senate Bill 75 (to allow the use of hounds while hunting mountain lions), and House Bill 1004 (which would have allowed people to keep the pelts of mountain lions killed for depredation or public safety). 2010 MLF and its co-plaintiffs lose its appeal against the Oregon Wildlife Services, and the USDA. MLF rallies its California-based membership to object to a plan by the California Department of Fish and Game to close some of its wildlife refuges. MLF launches On Air, a broadcast project that conducts audio interviews with mountain lion experts. MLF participates in a community meeting after a lion is shot by police near the UC Berkeley campus and the public is outraged by the lack of non-lethal management techniques. MLF's outreach efforts encourage Californians to write letters to law enforcement agencies demanding a change from a "shoot first" attitude, and later that summer the Morgan Hill (California) Police Department uses pepper-balls to scare away a lion from town, and a game warden in San Bernardino county humanely tranquilizes and relocates a dispersing juvenile. MLF is recognized by the California State Senate for its contribution in passing Proposition 117 twenty years earlier. Thirty-four groups from 13 states joined MLF in an ad hoc coalition to celebrate and promote the American lion for a period of 117 days--June 7 through September 30, 2010. MLF's Celebrating the American Lion Campaign's goal was to raise the national awareness of the plight facing lions in America today and to showcase the advocacy and public education work of the coalition's partner organizations. MLF starts its Lion Partners program where the Foundation provides advice and assistance to small volunteer mountain lion advocacy groups. MLF joins the Twitter network as MtnLionFdn to update members instantly on the latest cougar news, events, and action alerts. 2011 MLF started off the year by posting a special 8-minute video detailing the basic biology and behavior of mountain lions on YouTube with links from the MLF website. A DVD of the video was also produced for distribution to small local conservation groups and educational institutions for use in public presentations without the need of an actual MLF presenter. In May, MLF tried something new by placing a "Stop the Killing. NOW!" on-line petition. In this petition we called for: Banning the recreational hunting of lions on all federally owned or controlled lands. Halting the use of federal funds or agencies to conduct lion eradication or removal programs. And, demanding that the Governors of states with existing lion hunting policies emplace a moratorium on all hunts until that state's lion population model and management plans have undergone a rigorous scientific peer-review process. MLF's web-based activities centered on reinventing its website with a new, visually appealing, and user-friendly layout. MLF premiers its new "Where do we go from here?" poster and "American Lion brochure at a special gala event at the San Francisco Academy of Sciences. MLF partners with the St. Luis, Missouri Audubon Society to help inform that state's citizenry about their lions (or the official lack of them) by developing two special Missouri specific educational brochures. MLF creates a special Washington state specific informational brochure. MLF joins with the Washington chapter of HSUS, PAWs, and a small collection of unaffiliated cougar activists to try and stop WAC 232-12-243. This particular administrative rule change would (in direct violation of Initiative 655) allow hunters to use hounds to hunt cougars in Washington for recreational purposes. MLF drafts and helps pass California Senate Bill 769. SB 769 is an amendment to Proposition 117 to allow the use of post-1990 lion carcasses and body parts for educational purposes. 2012 MLF continues an effort started in April of 2011 to reauthorize mountain lion research in California. The final outcome of this effort is Assembly Bill 1784, an amendment to Proposition 117 written and promoted by MLF. AB 1784 is expected to pass the legislature and be signed by the Governor sometime this summer. MLF helps raise the public's awareness to the actions of California Fish and Game Commission President Dan Richards after he kills a mountain lion on a legal hunt in Idaho and then brags about it by posting a photograph of him lifting his dead trophy. In the end we were unable to get Mr. Richards removed from the commission, but our actions, coupled with those of other conservation organizations, have resulted in the introduction of several legislative bills aimed at reforming the Commission. MLF starts a campaign to change the way the California Department of Fish and Game handles mountain lions that are listed as an imminent threat to the public's safety, and investigates the killings of mountain lions in Sunland and Santa Monica California.

From: Matt
16-Apr-15
"The bill mandates that the state must spend $30 million dollars a year to protect wildlife habitat. Regan had NOT one thing to do with it. Nor did anyone with any common sense. "

Nor did the legislature, as it cannot modify ballot initiatives, hence their folly. As bad as our legislature is at writing legislation, special interest groups are worse. Your post is otherwise fairly accurate, other than the mountain lion was the poster child of the initiative and not a side note.

17-Apr-15
if I am not mistaken, it takes legislature to create bills. I could be wrong about that. But, I'm not. The law has been modified several times since being passed. I don't know who is doing the modifying. I really don't. I do know there are ways around it but, your liberal legislation doesn't want that. God bless

From: DL
17-Apr-15
Here you go WV.

In political science, an initiative (also known as a popular or citizens' initiative) is a means by which a petition signed by a certain minimum number of registered voters can force a public vote (plebiscite

This is how it was done.

From: DL
17-Apr-15
This is why I never sign petitions unless I Know the issue completely. The issues can make sense the way the petitioner describes them but can have hidden and far reaching meanings. An example, a petition to protect our children from felons. I could have an anti gun clause in it.

From: BTM
17-Apr-15
I had cougars (the four-legged kind!) in my Southern Kalifornia backyard on several occasions, and there would've been hell to pay had I put a hole in them.

I escaped that socialist, leftist hellhole a few years ago, and heaven help any cougar that strolls near my house now!

17-Apr-15
I know what it was DL. Some are attempting the same thing here in WV to allow for Sunday hunting and to change the Deer regulations. (I'm in favor of Sunday hunting.:^) ) I also know that Legislation's role is law. While citizens forced a vote on it, Legislature has chosen not to amend it in favor of the hunter.

We see it everyday in every state. We see it in our federal laws. Amendments to laws by legislature are common. It has happened to proposition 117. Just never in favor of of the hunting Californian that wants to hunt mountain lions. It could be as simple as inserting a clause to allow lion management where deemed necessary by the Game commission. Of course, the house may not pass it or it may not even reach the floor.

I guess it is safe to assume at this point that no law makers in California want to tackle this because the majority of the public still wants protection for the mountain lion. Has there been any attempt to bring such an amendment or an entirely different Bill allowing this in front of the State House of Legislature? I haven't searched to see and, it probably wouldn't be known outside of California if it had. Just wandering.

If not, there is the place to start. I hear on here and other websites that California isn't as liberal as it appears. Organize, consolidate, and fight back. Good luck and God Bless

From: patdel
17-Apr-15
I was living out there at the time that passed when I was in the service. There were petitions everywhere. I was always under the impression they got enough signatures to force it onto the ballot. Then it passed by popular vote.... I had people trying to get me to sign all the time. I never saw anyone else refuse. Bay area.

From: Matt
18-Apr-15
"I know what it was DL"

Respectfully, no you do not so please stop typing and start reading. The legislature is completely removed from the ballot initiative process - so your repeated references to the legislature's involvement are completely misguided. The citizens get the signatures to put it on the ballot, and the voters vote. Notice there is no mention of the legislature in that process. Once that happens, the legislature cannot amend the resulting legislation.

That is the dangerous thing about the process. As bad as our legislature is at writing legislation, laymen are even worse and the result of even well-intentioned legislation is often negative.

18-Apr-15
Matt, I'll let that one go and stay polite. California allows amendment to any law, public initiatives or not. Through referenda or an out right new amendment. But, once again, if you don't have majority of support or the money to get rganized, you'll likely lose come election time. Respectfully, don't take my word for it. Just take 3 minutes and do a Google search. It is in plain black and white my friend. I wish you California hunters the best at getting this fixed. God Bless

From: Matt
19-Apr-15
WV, I googled SB 769 and the below is verbiage cut/pasted directly from it in reference to Proposition 117 (and to be clear, SB 769 did not amend 117, but rather portions of the Fish & Wildlife Code written in response to the passage of 117):

"The act prohibits the Legislature from changing the act, with specified exceptions, except by a 4/5 vote of the membership of both houses of the Legislature and then only if consistent with, and in furtherance of, the purposes of the act."

You are technically correct that Proposition 117 could be amended by the legislature, but only a) by a 4/5th vote AND (and this is the kicker) only if in a manner that is consistent with and in furtherance of the purposes of the act - one of them being the specially protected status of mountain lions. That aspect of the proposition cannot be amended by the legislature in a way that would remove the protected status and permit hunting.

From a practical perspective, in order to address the lion ban, we would need to get another ballot initiative passed which reverses all or a portion of 117.

From: st8tman
19-Apr-15
You guys are certainly more in tune than I about the various legal wrangling that may or may not have to unfold for a change. Rules/Regulations protocol etc. But in plain English, (Country-Boy style) The fact remains........Whomever.....does not have a clue bout the true management of animals, and the "service/function" that regulated hunting plays! So with that said, we will continue to read reports of these animal encroaching upon peoples property, attacking domestic animals/livestock, and occasionally people. They (the govt) will continue to kill these "rogue" animals defined as nuisance, as hunters are forced to sit on the sidelines, only to turn on their TV and hear another sensationalized story by the Almighty Liberal Media. I am sure there are some very decent Americans who call California home, unfortunately they with all due respect, are the minority. Hollywood may be able to produce a "make-believe" movie that entertains millions, but they don't know a damn thing about animal conservation!

19-Apr-15
Matt, if agenda driven nutbags use "their" science to prove their point. The real science of the situation could be used to win an appeal against the amendment. In the name of protection. That has been my point all along. It is legal. It just depends on how you approach it.

I also said another law could be passed with enough support, to allow hunting for these things. A quote from an earlier post.

"Has there been any attempt to bring such an amendment or an entirely different Bill allowing this in front of the State House of Legislature? I haven't searched to see and, it probably wouldn't be known outside of California if it had. Just wandering."

Please understand, I'm not arguing or saying that you or anyone is wrong. I'm saying/said there are legal ways to beat this. And, that the fact that hunters in California have no friends in the legislative system is becoming more obvious everyday.

There is hope. Organize, educate, and win. As these cats become more and more a nuisance and start eating people, that will become easier to do.

God Bless

From: st8tman
20-Apr-15
"As these cats become more and more a nuisance and start eating people, that will become easier to do." Mountaineer truer words have never been typed, unfortunately it will take a prominent person or their relative/close friend to suffer a negative consequence before any positive action is put forth. In reality the old adage. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" is not necessarily true anymore, unfortunately as time has evolved and this country has been taken over by the Left-Wing Liberals......"The Important/Prominent Wheel Gets the Grease!" is more applicable! If some of you do not believe this concept, the Commonwealth just experienced this as it relates to the care/welfare of mentally ill individuals. It took a very prominent/decent state legislature to fall victim to his own knife wielding son, who was suffering from some type of mental illness/deficiency before the state legislature seriosly addressed this condition with some acts to better serve/help these afflicted people. (This Senator just happens to be a member of the Democratic party: So this is not a partisan attack) In the case of the Mountain Lions of California, unfortunately they will continue to suffer all the aforementioned ill effects of occupying a state who refuses to recognize/implement sound conservation practices; with an emphasis on regulated hunting and prescribed bag limits! Hell, if the cats were smart enough they would wait for the next "Big-Thriller" movie set in the Cali. desert and turn some hot-shot producer into a "Millionaire-McNugget" You can bet your sweet azz- some heads would turn, and some "well-supported" state legislature would turn up the wick for new measures to minimize mountain lions in Cali. While I only use this scenario as an illustration, it very well could become reality; unfortunately events like this often cause uninformed people to over-react and implement ill advised laws/policies; all the while the animals themselves continue to suffer at the hands of mankind! I will close by once again stating....Game Animal welfare and well being is best left up to educated and informed Biologist/Conservationist and dedicated Sportsman and the groups they have formed to preserve and enhance not only the species current situation, but their future prosperity! If you don't believe it ask Teddy Roosevelt as he spent a great deal of his time dedicated to the preservation of all North American Game Animals; while being the Most Powerful Political figure on the planet!(Just my thoughts)

From: Matt
20-Apr-15
st8tman, as near as I can tell, the CA DF&W has redefined what constitutes a lion attack, which makes it even more difficult to get momentum.

WV, as near as I can recall, there was virtually no science used in the passage of Prop. 117 - it was largely an emotive plea. To that end, it will be VERY difficult to garner support with science when it wasn't our science versus their science that drove the initiative. I debate those who support the ban on Yahoo news, and they are totally unphased by the fact that our deer herd is estimated to have decreased by 50% over the past 25 years - which coincidentally the start of which correlates closely with the passage of 117. These folks blame the decline in the deer herd on human encroachment, even though some of the largest declines (from an anecdotal perspective) have occurred in areas where the human population hasn't increased significantly over that period.

From: shade mt
20-Apr-15
I don't even bother looking into the "who's at fault"..liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican, he say's she say's stuff anymore. I'll simply stand for whats right.

It is apparent that a vast majority of secular society is on a rapid downward spiral. Democrat and republican alike.

The attitude toward hunting and lifting Wildlife to "equal" status among humanity is only a result of a reprobate society.

As for me and my house?....We'll stand fast, we'll speak the truth, we will not waver.

From: st8tman
20-Apr-15
Matt, I can relate to that "redefining" ideal. When I was in elementary school I was defined as "Fat" by the teachers/administration. (Which I definitely was)...NOWDAYS.......I would be "WEIGHT-CHALLENGED!" Guess it is the kinder/gentler sensation.

  • Sitka Gear