Carbon Express Arrows
Colorado host tag G16
Mountain Goat
Contributors to this thread:
Turk 14-May-15
Bowboy 14-May-15
Ziek 14-May-15
Ziek 14-May-15
'Ike' (Phone) 14-May-15
LWood 14-May-15
t-roy 14-May-15
Turk 14-May-15
Ermine 14-May-15
jims 15-May-15
Ziek 15-May-15
cityhunter 15-May-15
casper 16-May-15
Elk Dog 16-May-15
Adventurewriter 16-May-15
Ermine 16-May-15
jims 16-May-15
Ziek 16-May-15
Ziek 17-May-15
Adventurewriter 17-May-15
Ziek 17-May-15
jims 17-May-15
Ziek 17-May-15
jims 17-May-15
Adventurewriter 17-May-15
bill v 17-May-15
squirrel 18-May-15
Turk 18-May-15
From: Turk
14-May-15
I was shocked to get a mountain goat tag in the mail yesterday. A mountain goat hunt has been one of my top "wants" for as long as I can remember. I am not in the shape that I was when I first started applying but I am looking forward to this great opportunity!

I've also drawn a unit 36 NM elk tag, but this goat tag is first priority for sure.

From: Bowboy
14-May-15
Congrats have fun and post pictures and a story.

From: Ziek
14-May-15
G 16 has good access, especially for scouting, if you have the proper vehicle, and depending on how set you are on a big billy, and also depending on the season. Obviously, this is goat country, so much of it requires significant effort to actually get to the goats. Both my wife and I have hunted it, and we both took decent billies. Mine scored 43 2/8, and her's 42 0/8. Being able to scout a few times over the summer would sure be an advantage. PM me if you have any questions or just want to talk.

From: Ziek
14-May-15

Ziek's embedded Photo
Ziek's embedded Photo
I'll try the photo again. I have no idea where the whitetail mount photo came from. Thankfully, we can now delete an image.

14-May-15
Awesome Turk....

From: LWood
14-May-15
Going to be a great season with two great tags! Good luck!

From: t-roy
14-May-15
Good luck on both tags Turk!

From: Turk
14-May-15
Thanks guys,

Wow Ziek nice goats! It sounds like you and your wife had a great time.

I live in WV so I doubt that I will be able to do much (if any) pre-hunt scouting. I can come out early before season, but I doubt that I can go before that.

My hunt is September 8 to the 18th.

I'll give you a shout Ziek as soon as I round up some maps and do a little more research on the unit.

From: Ermine
14-May-15

Ermine's embedded Photo
Ermine's embedded Photo
G16 is my back yard

From: jims
15-May-15
Congrats on the tag...you are in for a treat!

You might notice in Ziek's pic above the larger bodied scraggling goats....without even looking at the horns or anything else I can guarantee those are nannies. The 2 goats on the left side of the same pic are likely immature billies (without any scrag). During the first couple Colorado goat seasons you can pretty much tell billies from nannies by which goats have scrag. Unfortunately goat hair on billies will be somewhat short but you'll have first crack at them. If you take a look at the Colo goat harvest reports you will notice that there are very few mature (5+) year old billies left in G16, 15, and 7 so it would likely pay to spend a lot of time in the preseason finding and keeping track of the very few that exist. I've spent a great deal of time in those units the past 15+ years and would be willing to share a bit of advice if you PM me.

You would be amazed how many guys can't tell the difference between nannies and billies so you may want to spend time in the summer in the goat hills. They are an incredible and exciting species to spend time watching, filming, and hunting....and live in some of the most scenic country in the West!

From: Ziek
15-May-15

Ziek's embedded Photo
Ziek's embedded Photo
That photo was taken on August 6 on a scouting trip, and yes it's a group of nannies, kids and immature billies.

Age and sex have less to do with score than in any other big game animal. And there really isn't much difference in appearance between a 'good' goat and a real trophy anyway. My billie was only 2 1/2 years old with 9+" horns and scored 43 2/8, taken in 2002. My wife hunted in 2013. Her billy was 5 1/2 years old. It's horns were 8 3/8" and scored 42 0/8, although it was a larger, heavier goat.

Many believe good hair is almost as important as horn length. Besides, they're likely to launch off a cliff and break their horns anyway. Something that both of us were spared. I killed on 10/7 and my wife on 9/19. Both had really nice hair.

Justin, I think this photo was taken near yours just in a different direction.

From: cityhunter
15-May-15
turk best of luck sounds like a good season ahead

From: casper
16-May-15
Turk you got my tag bro. but congrats to you and please keep us posted as to your scouting and the hunt. I had 16 points as a non resident.Dan In Az

From: Elk Dog
16-May-15
Congrats on drawing your tag & good luck on your hunt.

16-May-15
Oh No...please lets not debate drawing ;)...let talk mountain Goats and G-16!!!

From: Ermine
16-May-15
All about luck. I've put in for 11 years with no luck. But have friends who have draw Mtn goat tags 3 x. It's all about those who luck out with the draw!!

From: jims
16-May-15
I agree with Ziek 100% that immature billies grow horns quick but they also have bodies about 1/3 the size of a mature 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 year old billy!

From: Ziek
16-May-15
"...have bodies about 1/3 the size of a mature 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 year old billy!"

I wouldn't say that jims. My wife's goat is about 1/3 - 1/2 bigger than mine. That's a lot different than mine being 1/3 the size of her's. I suppose that's possible, comparing an unusually small 2 1/2 year old with a monster 5 1/2, but not typically.

From: Ziek
17-May-15

Ziek's embedded Photo
Ziek's embedded Photo
It's also not true that mature billies are always solitary, so don't automatically pass up a group assuming they're all nannies or immature. The goat Cindy killed is the one at top left in this group of seven, two days before she killed him. Just before her shot, we saw two other goats with him. The others may have also been there, but we were in the trees and didn't see them.

17-May-15
Ziek is right my when I first laid eyes on my billy he was with two smaller billies and I thought at binoc look it looked like a Nannie and two kids put the spotter on them and the game changed...a monster Billy and two smaller ones. There are different gene pools running around out there....Maxis and Minis as my taxidermist calls them...some came from Idaho-minis and some from British Columbia-Maxis and they interbreed and I heard a mini nannie could have a maxi-gened kid

From: Ziek
17-May-15

Ziek's embedded Photo
Ziek's embedded Photo
If you want some basic info on mountain goats, I recommend reading A Beast The Color Of Winter by Douglas H. Chadwick.

Here's another photo of part of the same group the day before Cindy's success.

From: jims
17-May-15
Ziek it sounds like you've spent a fair amount of time in G16, 7, and 15? Would you agree that things have definitely changed over the past 15 years in regard the number of mature 5 1/2 year old billies that are available today vs years ago?

You guys are spot on that it is common to see billies the past 8+ years hang out with nannies in those units. However, the days of bachelor groups of 5+ year old billies is pretty much over in these units since the CPW increased seasons and tags. If you spent time in those units 10+ years ago and hiked into some of the remote cliffy country you know exactly what I'm talking about! It wasn't too uncommon to find 4 to as many as 10 mature 5+ year old billies in solitude groups...especially during the summmer months.

It doesn't sound like many believe me but if you have access to harvest reports from 10 to 15+ years ago you'll see exactly what I am talking about. You may also want to gaze through the stats and notice how many 2 1/2 year old billies and nannies are currently harvested compared to 5 1/2 year old billies 12 years ago. I was excited with the CPW finally opened up nanny tags a few years ago...that was definitely a step in the right direction.

There are so few mature billies currently left that the few 3 1/2+ year olds that are left spend a lot of time socializing in nanny groups year round. I agree that billies can have almost 9" horns at 2 1/2 years of age. I also agree that there are mini and maxi goats in herds scattered across Colo...although I've pretty much only seen maxi goats in G7, G16, and G15. I would really like to see photos of some mini bodied billies in those 3 units that are 5 1/2+ years old. I guess the thing we can agree to disagree is that there are very few 5 1/2 year old billies left in these units. There are a few that survive the gauntlet...but very, very few!

I have lots of photos of 5 1/2+ year old billies in those units from the "good ole days". If anyone is interested I would be glad to forward them to you....along with pics of nannies vs billies...plus photos of different age classes of billies in those units.

From: Ziek
17-May-15

Ziek's embedded Photo
Ziek's embedded Photo
Agreed jims. Not only did we see more, larger billies during my hunt in '02 than my wife's in '13, we saw more goats period.

But some of the CPW stats could be skewed because of either errors or ineptness in aging goats. On Cindy's check in form, it says they counted 5 growth rings. Under estimated age it says 4 1/2. Actually, goats usually don't produce an annulus ring their first winter, so one with 5 growth rings is probably 6 1/2, (which is what my taxidermist aged it at) not 5 1/2, and certainly not 4 1/2.

"...almost 9"horns at 2 1/2..."? Mine were 9 1/8 and 9 2/8. On a relatively small goat in a group of nannies, kids, and immature billies, they looked pretty big when I shot him.

This is how we found her goat. Is it dead, or not? You can just make out the stick it's head came to rest on.

From: jims
17-May-15
I'm glad I'm not the only one that has noticed the decrease in goat population and mature billies is those units!

I would agree with the CPW error statement! When a girl measured my son's goat horn length she measured from the base across to the tip rather than following the length of the horn. She came up with 7 1/2" length rather than over 9". She also somehow counted 6 rings and his billy was 4 1/2 years old.

Goats certainly are a unique species and a bonus high alpine species in Colorado and other states!

17-May-15
Jims bust the good ole day photos love looking at big gnarly billies..

From: bill v
17-May-15
Way to go turn

Congrats!

Bill v

From: squirrel
18-May-15
I would concur that while awesome genetics/nutrition still dominate the whole of "old g-7" you will have little to no chance at what used to be relatively common. Too bad as they were amazing to watch. They are no match for a rifle combined with the "print" button. Fun unit with lots of historical stuff laying around up there. You should be able to have a fun hunt and get a nice goat. I would give 0 weight to Dow "aging" based on personal observations at check in. 9"@ 3-1/2 isn't rare in that herd imo. If you can find one over 5 yrs he will be a stud.

From: Turk
18-May-15
Wow guys thanks, great information.

Please keep it coming.

Thanks also for all of the congratulations, I know that you all can appreciate the rush of emotion when you finally draw a tag for one of your most wanted animals to hunt!

Ziek, that is a cool picture of your wife's goat!

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