Mathews Inc.
Desert sheep raffle
Wild Sheep
Contributors to this thread:
Sandbrew 30-May-15
Shrewski 30-May-15
Sandbrew 30-May-15
Medicinemann 30-May-15
Closetohome 30-May-15
Sandbrew 30-May-15
flyingbrass 30-May-15
Sandbrew 30-May-15
Sandbrew 30-May-15
Sandbrew 30-May-15
CO Oak 30-May-15
Bowboy 30-May-15
bentstick 30-May-15
Charlie Rehor 30-May-15
CO Oak 30-May-15
AZBOW 31-May-15
Charlie Rehor 31-May-15
expeditiontraders 31-May-15
Medicinemann 01-Jun-15
Medicinemann 01-Jun-15
Medicinemann 01-Jun-15
Medicinemann 01-Jun-15
Sandbrew 04-Jun-15
Wapitidung 04-Jun-15
Treeline 06-Jun-15
Medicinemann 08-Jun-15
Sandbrew 08-Jun-15
Sandbrew 08-Jun-15
Sandbrew 08-Jun-15
Sandbrew 08-Jun-15
JACK 08-Jun-15
killinstuff 08-Jun-15
Treeline 09-Jun-15
Halibutman 11-Jun-15
killinstuff 11-Jun-15
Halibutman 11-Jun-15
Sandbrew 12-Jun-15
Halibutman 13-Jun-15
Chief 13-Jun-15
Sandbrew 13-Jun-15
Wapitidung 17-Jun-15
wkochevar 17-Jun-15
Halibutman 17-Jun-15
Sandbrew 17-Jun-15
Halibutman 17-Jun-15
Sandbrew 17-Jun-15
Wapitidung 18-Jun-15
Treeline 22-Jun-15
Jim in PA 23-Jun-15
CO Oak 25-Jun-15
Treeline 29-Jun-15
CO Oak 29-Jun-15
CO Oak 02-Dec-15
huntinelk 02-Dec-15
kota-man 02-Dec-15
flyingbrass 02-Dec-15
wkochevar 02-Dec-15
CO Oak 02-Dec-15
Dave B 02-Dec-15
mn_archer 02-Dec-15
Medicinemann 02-Dec-15
Quinn @work 02-Dec-15
CO Oak 02-Dec-15
mn_archer 03-Dec-15
Medicinemann 03-Dec-15
Treeline 08-Dec-15
CO Oak 10-Dec-15
OFFHNTN 10-Dec-15
wkochevar 14-Dec-15
Treeline 16-Dec-15
From: Sandbrew
30-May-15

Sandbrew's Link
If you didn't draw your dream sheep tag here's a great place to spend your refund money.

The Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society is raffling off a Fully Guided 10 day Baja desert sheep hunt on Dec 9th 2015. Hunt dates are Jan-March 2016 with El Fuerte Outfitters.

Only 750 total tickets to be sold at $100 per ticket. Way cheaper and better odds then most of the state desert draws.

Good luck to all!

Sandbrew

From: Shrewski
30-May-15

Shrewski's Link
I'm going to get in on that one. The link is not working in your post. Maybe this will work.

From: Sandbrew
30-May-15
Thanks Shrewski. I'll fix my link as well. Great odds and a great organization. I think this one will sell out so don't delay buying tickets. Sandbrew

From: Medicinemann
30-May-15
There are several Bowsiters that have hunted with El Fuerte. If the winner is a Bowsiter as well, several references will be available on this forum......

From: Closetohome
30-May-15
There went my refund money. Thanks for posting.

From: Sandbrew
30-May-15
That's all part of the marketing and timing. ;-) Already sold. 12 tickets today. As Jake pointed out this is a good outfitter with a good reputation and proven track record with bowhunters and bowsiters. Sandbrew.

From: flyingbrass
30-May-15
I'm in!

From: Sandbrew
30-May-15
Jake can you find some guys to post some pics here or links to stories? It might help sell some tickets.

Thanks,

Sandbrew

From: Sandbrew
30-May-15

From: Sandbrew
30-May-15

From: CO Oak
30-May-15
This would be a great opportunity for a bowhunter. Fifteen of 17 archery hunters have been successful with El Fuerte.

From: Bowboy
30-May-15
Might have to throw in for some tickets myself. I drew a Wyoming mountain goat tag with .59% odds. You don't win if you don't play.

From: bentstick
30-May-15
I just got a couple!

30-May-15
Can two guys split one ticket and hunt alternate days until the tag is filled??

From: CO Oak
30-May-15
One hunter, non-transferable.

From: AZBOW
31-May-15
Funny Charlie. If 10 guys split the cost of a ticket...

31-May-15
AZBOW: 10 guys splitting it would only get a maximum of one day hunting each and if the first guy connected the other 9 would be sad! I thought two people splitting a ticket for $50 each would be a great spousal/hunting buddy way to soften the ticket cost!

Hopefully a Bowsite person will win this tag and we all can go on their live hunt! C

31-May-15
Hopefully, I have the winning ticket.

From: Medicinemann
01-Jun-15
Sandbrew,

Per your request....

This link is for Ned Greer's Desert Bighorn ram...

http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=379169&messages=3&forum=12

This link is for Tom Edgington's ram a couple years later...

http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=12&threadid=391985&MESSAGES=214&FF=12

....and TThomas has hunted with El Fuerte at least once, if not a couple times.....he would prove to be a valuable additional reference....and is always willing to share his experiences and expertise. Check the El Fuerte website for additional references....like Greg Bokash, etc.

My DBS bowhunt was an exceptional experience.I live near Buffalo, NY, and to be able to travel to the Baja Peninsula of Mexico in late January and early February was an outstanding excuse to get out of the cold. The flora and fauna are so different from what I live near, that it made for really special memories....and I really enjoy eating wild game...and several on my fondest wild game dinners include wild sheep tenderloins or backstraps. HOWEVER, until you want your sheep meat cooked until it resembles a jerky strip, don't let the guides cook your sheep meat for you....virtually everyone down there REALLY overcooks the meat....really.

The last time that I visited the El Fuerte area, they seemed to have had an increase in Mountain Lion activity.....hopefully, that has been addressed. I believe that Victor has been let go, too.....so there has probably been a turn over in guides, etc. However, if you have Jorge in camp, it probably isn't going to matter.....you'll get archery close.

From: Medicinemann
01-Jun-15

Medicinemann's Link
Ned Greer link

From: Medicinemann
01-Jun-15

Medicinemann's Link
Tom Edgington link

From: Medicinemann
01-Jun-15

Medicinemann's Link
Ned Greer sheep hunt....Part 2

From: Sandbrew
04-Jun-15
Thanks Jake. Great stories and photos on those threads. Less than a week of selling with no promotions other then a few website posts and nearly 10% of the tickets are sold. Don't wait to buy these will sell out. Sandbrew

From: Wapitidung
04-Jun-15
I'm in. I got good vibes.

From: Treeline
06-Jun-15
In. 1 in 750 is still pretty steep odds! Good luck to everyone that is throwing their name in the hat!

From: Medicinemann
08-Jun-15
The last thing that I want to do, is to discourage anyone from considering purchasing a ticket that supports a worthy cause, while allowing someone to possibly win the hunt of a lifetime. However, I also want to make sure that everyone is aware of a recent negative report filed by Bill Foose in the Hunting Report.

I do not subscribe to the Hunting Report. My information is second hand....so do yourself a favor, and consider investigating this a little bit....as Bill Foose has killed FOUR sheep with Ty Miller and yet he just filed a negative report.

It is my understanding that Bill had booked a fifth hunt some time ago, and the hunt fell through....and Bill has never received his deposit back. I know that Ty has had some personal tragedy (he lost his young wife a couple years ago), as well as some other challenges.

At least four different Bowsiters have has success with El Fuerte. Please don't think that I have an axe to grind...I do not.

If you realize that your $100 ticket is probably just a donation to a worthy cause....then this may be a non issue for most of you. Just wanted to share a heads up....because even if you win the ticket, if Ty has fallen on hard times, you may not get the hunt of a lifetime that you think that you did.....

Caveat emptor.

From: Sandbrew
08-Jun-15

Sandbrew's Link
Jake- That is weird - a Bill Foose is still listed as a reference and this quote was posted on their blog on Feb 1 2014.

http://bajabighornsheep.com/beta/bill-foose/

"This hunt was everything I had expected and more! Permits and paperwork were handled very quick and professional. I highly recommend this trip to any hunter looking for his desert ram. I plan to make this hunt again in the future."

Something must have gone sideways in 2015?

Anyone have a Hunting Report handy?

Sandbrew

From: Sandbrew
08-Jun-15
Got to love google-

The way I read this- Since this 2010 deposit of $13K this guys been on at least 4 successful hunts is listed as reference and he still wants a $13000 back? I'm confused?????

Deposit Money Not Yet Returned for Mexico Bighorn Hunt (posted June - 2015) By Tim Jones, Editor

In Report 9945 subscriber Bill Foose tells us he placed a deposit with outfitter Ty Miller of El Fuerte Outfitters for a 2010 desert sheep hunt in Mexico. To date, the hunt has not happened and Foose has been unable to get his deposit money back.

Foose tells us, "Four years ago, I sent a deposit for $13,000 for a desert bighorn hunt in Baja, Mexico with Ty Miller. Ty later called to tell me the community where the hunt was to take place (the ejido) would not honor the hunt. They changed their "president" and the new one coming in would not honor the original agreement. I had hunted there four times before with him.

"Ty said he had sent them $20,000 for the deposit and now he was out $7,000 of his own money. That is not my problem; I did business with Ty and I'm not responsible for Ty's business transactions.

"At that time, Ty's wife came down with cancer and died about a year later. I did not want to pursue the issue while this was happening. I was trying to give Ty time to get back on his feet from the tragedy. I have since tried working with Ty to get my money back, but now Ty won't even return my calls/emails. Last time we talked he said he would pay me back $500 a month. But I said I wanted $7K up front and $500 a month after that. But he could not do that either. I just want my deposit back."

In his rebuttal, Miller says, "First I would like to say that Bill Foose is not just a client, he is a friend as well who killed four desert sheep with us.

"I have wanted to pay back Bill his deposit for a long time. I have many other bills pending since trying to save my wife's life, which unfortunately did not work. I have sold or lost about everything from cars to houses to pay hospital bills in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.I am in serious financial distress, but I keep pushing forward as positive as possible!

"I hate excuses and prior to losing my wife I was always on my game and built a great hunting company. I offered Bill a payment plan some time ago, but he would not accept it....

From: Sandbrew
08-Jun-15
These hunts retail for $52,000. Offer him 4 hunts at $48750 and he's even? He hunted there 2011,2012 2013 adn 2014 he didn't think to withhold a little on each one of those. He's likely spent near $200,000 hunting there and he's now asking for $13k back. Something doesn't add up to me? Sandbrew

From: Sandbrew
08-Jun-15
FYI The RMBS is not planning to do this.....

Young Chuck, moved to Montana and bought a horse from a farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the horse the next day. The next day he drove up and said, 'Sorry son, but I have some bad news, the horse died.'

Chuck replied, 'Well, then just give me my money back.'

The farmer said, 'Can't do that. I went and spent it already.'

Chuck said, 'Ok, then, just bring me the dead horse.'

The farmer asked, 'What ya gonna do with him?

Chuck said, 'I'm going to raffle him off.'

The farmer said, 'You can't raffle off a dead horse!'

Chuck said, 'Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he's dead.'

A month later, the farmer met up with Chuck and asked, 'What happened with that dead horse?'

Chuck said, 'I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a net profit of $898.00.'

The farmer said, 'Didn't anyone complain?'

Chuck said, 'Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back.'

From: JACK
08-Jun-15
lol

From: killinstuff
08-Jun-15
At the very least, $100 tax deduction. It's a $52K hunt. so after $200K spent hunting with someone $13K is tip money.

From: Treeline
09-Jun-15
No kidding. Sounds like after 4 hunts with the same outfitter for that kind of money, he would have just called the $13K a gift to try and help him out from falling on hard times. Seems as though he has enough money to not miss it.

Bet Ty would have busted his tail to make it up to him one way or another if it had been approached that way - given him a cut rate on another hunt or something to make it up.

Bad etiquette on the part of Bill.

From: Halibutman
11-Jun-15
How is it bad etiquette? It's not. If a roofer did not put your roof on, and you'd used him 4 times before, would you "consider it a tip"? Hell no.

Bully for this guy for holding the outfitter accountable. He should accept the payment plan as a courtesy, and charge interest.

Tragedies happen, and this gentleman was kind enough to wait to pursue his claim. Just because "he has plenty of money" doesn't make "welching" on the contractual obligation acceptable by the outfitter.

Get burned a couple of times and see if you think it's "acceptable".

Also, to those suggesting its "tip money", I'd guess he tipped..... So you are advocating forced additional gratuity..... Wow.

From: killinstuff
11-Jun-15
Put on some boxers Halibutman, the tighty whities must be too tight. Geez!

I'm guessing the guy can do without $13K for a bit. And I bet he gets it back. If I drop $1300 as a down payment on a hunt (my world kind money) with someone I've had a good trip with 4 other times I'm not flaming them on the internet. It's a dick move.

From: Halibutman
11-Jun-15
Easy to say when it's NOT you. Easy to offer up another guy's $13,000.

Outfitter takes your money, you don't get to hunt, he KEEPS your money, then you write a negative review of his service online to prevent anyone else from making the same mistake.... And that make YOU the dick? That's absurd.

I've had guides change fundamentally from season to season. Previous trips can fail as indicators of present level of service.

I wear boxers. I work more hours than most people. I plunk my money down after earning it to pay for outfitted hunts. I've been burned. You obviously haven't.

From: Sandbrew
12-Jun-15
Easy there boys-

Halibutman- The way I read the complaint he paid a deposit for a specific hunt or a roof in 2010 and then went on 4 more hunts or had a roof put on 4 houses then asked for a refund on a roof from first house that never got put on.

Good news the other desert raffle is sold out ad there are still tickets available for this hunt.

Sandbrew

From: Halibutman
13-Jun-15
How are you guys reading that this guy hunted there every year since his deposit? I'm reading that he hunted there 4 times BEFORE the deposit was sent....

Look at the timeline offered. Read what he wrote. This should make anyone considering this hunt run like hell. There is no way I would book a top tier hunt with this outfit. He owes the man his deposit back, period. Anything else justifies the negative review, period.

"Four years ago, I sent a deposit of $13,000 for a desert bighorn hunt in baja, mexico....I had hunted there four times before with him"

Maybe his cut from this raffle will be used to pay the debt owed to what is surely one of his best customers.

I don't know any of the parties involved in this thread. I'm just in the market actively for a desert bighorn hunt, so I pay attention to things like this. I know two mexico outfits I certainly won't be using. I'm probably not even going to mexico at all.... Since I'm going to pull an Arizona tag for sure! ;)

From: Chief
13-Jun-15
"There is no way I would book a top tier hunt with this outfit."

Maybe, maybe not, but I'd sure be happy to pack my bags tomorrow and hunt with them for a winning $100 raffle ticket.

From: Sandbrew
13-Jun-15
Halibutman- I don't have a dog in this fight other than trying to raise funds for a nonprofit sheep org in Colorado raffling off a tag.

I still think you are reading this situation wrong.

From Hunt Report quote - "Bill Foose tells us he placed a deposit with outfitter Ty Miller of El Fuerte Outfitters for a 2010 desert sheep hunt in Mexico. To date, the hunt has not happened and Foose has been unable to get his deposit money back."

According to both him and Ty the 2010 deposit was for a specific area and Ty said he couldn't get a tag there due to changes in leadership. Seems reasonable and I'm sure it happens.

"Four years ago, I sent a deposit for $13,000 for a desert bighorn hunt in Baja, Mexico with Ty Miller. Ty later called to tell me the community where the hunt was to take place (the ejido) would not honor the hunt. They changed their "president" and the new one coming in would not honor the original agreement. I had hunted there four times before with him."

I don't know if this 4 times hunting with Ty refers to prior to 2010 on the same Baja hunt he has a deposit for the next 4 years? I see Bill's photos on the website He hunted there 2011,2012 2013 and 2014 and he is listed as a reference still.

Good luck in AZ.

Sandbrew

From: Wapitidung
17-Jun-15
Right Arm Chief

From: wkochevar
17-Jun-15
I want Halibut to keep talking...hopefully no one else buys a ticket. Improves my odds!!

From: Halibutman
17-Jun-15
They won't hold the raffle until all the tickets are sold. Then the hunt might or might not happen. The permit might get eliminated. Afterall, that seems "reasonable".

Good luck guys.

From: Sandbrew
17-Jun-15
Halibutman - Please state facts- Your last post is incorrect and I'm starting to feel like you are trying to discredit this raffle and the outfitter to increase your odds.

Actually per Colorado State raffle rules the raffle drawing must happen on the date and time advertised on each ticket regardless of the number of tickets sold.

As of today 89 tickets have been sold and we are 68.4% of they way to paying off Bill Fosse's deposit. ;-)

Sandbrew

From: Halibutman
17-Jun-15
Fact: I don't own a ticket in this raffle and have no plans to buy one.

Fact: multiple posts on this thread support the outfitters ability to keep a deposit (a very large deposit) when he delivered no services whatsoever.

Fact: I'm unfollowing this thread now.

Good luck guys.

From: Sandbrew
17-Jun-15
Thank you for Facts 1 and 3.

As far as fact 2 goes there are multiple posts about a single incident - not multiple posts supporting the outfitters ability to keep a deposit.

Just to be clear as thread owner I could have deleted any posts on this thread I wanted to but I chose to keep the debate public and on the up and up so nobody would think I was hiding any posts or details.

I wish you all the best in your quest for desert tag. Be sure you apply in Colorado the tag is cheap and the draw odds not so bad for nonresidents and no points.

Sandbrew

From: Wapitidung
18-Jun-15
Just occured to me that once I win the drawing and go Sheep hunting, I won't be able to afford the tip.

From: Treeline
22-Jun-15
What the heck - just bought 1 more chance for the sheep hunt and 4 chances for the rifle.

It is helping a great cause.

From: Jim in PA
23-Jun-15
"It is helping a great cause"

Wish everyone would stop the speculation. I know both of the parties involved (not the details) and It seems to me they are both getting smeared. If your worried then question it and do some research. Then decide to buy or not buy tickets. Keep in mind we all buy raffle tickets hoping to win but the real reason is to support an organization which has a cause you believe in! I think sometimes people forget that.

From: CO Oak
25-Jun-15

CO Oak's embedded Photo
CO Oak's embedded Photo

CO Oak's Link
I'm not going to speculate about what the situation was with the unsatisfied hunter in 2010. The winner of this raffle is going to have a great hunt, I have no doubt, or we wouldn't have purchased the hunt. The ram above was taken in 2015.

I know this is Bowsite, but for anyone that might also be interested in firearms, we have a raffle for an ultralight Kevin Weaver 7mm Rem mag that will be drawn on Saturday. Online ticket sales end at midnight tonight. Follow the link.

From: Treeline
29-Jun-15
CO Oak,

Any news on who won the rifle?

From: CO Oak
29-Jun-15
The winner of the rifle is Don Houser from Texas. Thank you to everyone who purchased tickets and made the raffle such a success. We also owe a huge debt of gratitude to Kevin Weaver and his family for their longstanding support of RMBS. Trent Swanson and Swarovski Optik have been outstanding supporters as well.

Thanks also to Bowsite for permitting this thread promoting our fundraising activities which allow us to fund the habitat, management and research projects that benefit all sheep hunters and enthusiasts. In the last 5 years, RMBS has directed over $1.4 million to such projects.

From: CO Oak
02-Dec-15
A week from tonight there will be a very happy person planning a trip! Last chance to get your name in the hat.

From: huntinelk
02-Dec-15
How many tickets have been sold?

From: kota-man
02-Dec-15
I just got an email that said 300 tickets left...That would mean 450 sold for those slow at math.

From: flyingbrass
02-Dec-15
crap. what are they going to do now?

From: wkochevar
02-Dec-15
I bought mine at least 6 months ago....I'm hoping my odds stay the same....;-) Good luck to all that enter!

From: CO Oak
02-Dec-15
"crap. what are they going to do now?"

Draw the winner!! (Next week)

From: Dave B
02-Dec-15
I got mine six months ago too, forgot I had to the ticket til I saw this post. Imagine that call...hey you won a sheep hunt...what? Now I'm excited again.

From: mn_archer
02-Dec-15
can we buy these tickets online? Today is my 42nd birthday and im feeling lucky!

michael

From: Medicinemann
02-Dec-15
Just out of curiosity, if you win the hunt, do you have to declare the value of the hunt, as income?

From: Quinn @work
02-Dec-15
The ad mentions that the "trophy fees" are the responsibility of the hunter. What are the trophy fees?

From: CO Oak
02-Dec-15
There are no trophy fees for this hunt. That was generic "cover all bases" language. There are really not many extra costs beyond your travel to MX and tipping of the guides and camp helpers. At the time we made that webpage this spring we wanted to be sure we were not liable for extras, but I have confirmed the above with the outfitter.

The winning hunter can bring one buddy at no additional cost, and additional friends for $2,000 each. The winner will fly into either Cabo San Lucas or Loreto.

If you have any questions specific to the hunt, feel free to contact the outfitter, Ty Miller, at BCS-Cazador@hotmail.com.

From: mn_archer
03-Dec-15
Jake,

I asked my tax accountant sister in law about this a couple years ago and If I remember right she said if you won a super sweet tag in an auction such as the montana super tag, you would have to pay taxes on the general value of the tag. Now if you won a guided hunt you would have to pay taxes on the fair market value.

Im assuming the RMBS would be sending the winner a 1099 for the value. $75k would bring a hefty tax bill for a regular fella like myself, but then again it would be a hell of a lot less than the hunt...

michael

From: Medicinemann
03-Dec-15
Mike,

That is what I thought.

Again, I am NOT trying to talk anyone out of buying a ticket and supporting a great cause. However, between tips and the tax consequence, this represents a significant expense, as well as the hunt of a lifetime.....I think that everyone needs to be made aware of that....so they can budget accordingly, should they win.....

From: Treeline
08-Dec-15
Will gladly pay the taxes when I win!:)

Good luck to everyone that is in this raffle! Hope someone on here wins and goes after that desert ram with a bow!

From: CO Oak
10-Dec-15
And the winner of the Mexico desert sheep hunt is.....Sean Paxton from Arizona! Congratulations! A sincere "thank you" goes out to everyone who purchased raffle tickets. The money raised will go far to help us achieve our bighorn sheep conservation goals in Colorado.

I would also like to thank Pat for allowing us to promote the raffle on Bowsite. It is much appreciated.

From: OFFHNTN
10-Dec-15
Well......piss, I guess I will cancel my flights. Congrats to the lucky hunter though and best of luck!

From: wkochevar
14-Dec-15
Schiznits!! Well I guess I'll just keep buying raffle tickets...You just never know and it's more than likely the only way I'll get to go lol

From: Treeline
16-Dec-15
Dang it! Thought I had this one in the bag!

Congratulations to Sean and good luck! Should be an awesome experience and hunt!

  • Sitka Gear