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The Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society is raffling off a Fully Guided 10 day Baja desert sheep hunt on Dec 9th 2015. Hunt dates are Jan-March 2016 with El Fuerte Outfitters.

Only 750 total tickets to be sold at $100 per ticket. Way cheaper and better odds then most of the state desert draws.

Good luck to all!

Sandbrew

Thanks,

Sandbrew

Hopefully a Bowsite person will win this tag and we all can go on their live hunt! C

Per your request....

This link is for Ned Greer's Desert Bighorn ram...

http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=379169&messages=3&forum=12

This link is for Tom Edgington's ram a couple years later...

http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=12&threadid=391985&MESSAGES=214&FF=12

....and TThomas has hunted with El Fuerte at least once, if not a couple times.....he would prove to be a valuable additional reference....and is always willing to share his experiences and expertise. Check the El Fuerte website for additional references....like Greg Bokash, etc.

My DBS bowhunt was an exceptional experience.I live near Buffalo, NY, and to be able to travel to the Baja Peninsula of Mexico in late January and early February was an outstanding excuse to get out of the cold. The flora and fauna are so different from what I live near, that it made for really special memories....and I really enjoy eating wild game...and several on my fondest wild game dinners include wild sheep tenderloins or backstraps. HOWEVER, until you want your sheep meat cooked until it resembles a jerky strip, don't let the guides cook your sheep meat for you....virtually everyone down there REALLY overcooks the meat....really.

The last time that I visited the El Fuerte area, they seemed to have had an increase in Mountain Lion activity.....hopefully, that has been addressed. I believe that Victor has been let go, too.....so there has probably been a turn over in guides, etc. However, if you have Jorge in camp, it probably isn't going to matter.....you'll get archery close.

I do not subscribe to the Hunting Report. My information is second hand....so do yourself a favor, and consider investigating this a little bit....as Bill Foose has killed FOUR sheep with Ty Miller and yet he just filed a negative report.

It is my understanding that Bill had booked a fifth hunt some time ago, and the hunt fell through....and Bill has never received his deposit back. I know that Ty has had some personal tragedy (he lost his young wife a couple years ago), as well as some other challenges.

At least four different Bowsiters have has success with El Fuerte. Please don't think that I have an axe to grind...I do not.

If you realize that your $100 ticket is probably just a donation to a worthy cause....then this may be a non issue for most of you. Just wanted to share a heads up....because even if you win the ticket, if Ty has fallen on hard times, you may not get the hunt of a lifetime that you think that you did.....

Caveat emptor.

http://bajabighornsheep.com/beta/bill-foose/

"This hunt was everything I had expected and more! Permits and paperwork were handled very quick and professional. I highly recommend this trip to any hunter looking for his desert ram. I plan to make this hunt again in the future."

Something must have gone sideways in 2015?

Anyone have a Hunting Report handy?

Sandbrew

The way I read this- Since this 2010 deposit of $13K this guys been on at least 4 successful hunts is listed as reference and he still wants a $13000 back? I'm confused?????

Deposit Money Not Yet Returned for Mexico Bighorn Hunt (posted June - 2015) By Tim Jones, Editor

In Report 9945 subscriber Bill Foose tells us he placed a deposit with outfitter Ty Miller of El Fuerte Outfitters for a 2010 desert sheep hunt in Mexico. To date, the hunt has not happened and Foose has been unable to get his deposit money back.

Foose tells us, "Four years ago, I sent a deposit for $13,000 for a desert bighorn hunt in Baja, Mexico with Ty Miller. Ty later called to tell me the community where the hunt was to take place (the ejido) would not honor the hunt. They changed their "president" and the new one coming in would not honor the original agreement. I had hunted there four times before with him.

"Ty said he had sent them $20,000 for the deposit and now he was out $7,000 of his own money. That is not my problem; I did business with Ty and I'm not responsible for Ty's business transactions.

"At that time, Ty's wife came down with cancer and died about a year later. I did not want to pursue the issue while this was happening. I was trying to give Ty time to get back on his feet from the tragedy. I have since tried working with Ty to get my money back, but now Ty won't even return my calls/emails. Last time we talked he said he would pay me back $500 a month. But I said I wanted $7K up front and $500 a month after that. But he could not do that either. I just want my deposit back."

In his rebuttal, Miller says, "First I would like to say that Bill Foose is not just a client, he is a friend as well who killed four desert sheep with us.

"I have wanted to pay back Bill his deposit for a long time. I have many other bills pending since trying to save my wife's life, which unfortunately did not work. I have sold or lost about everything from cars to houses to pay hospital bills in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.I am in serious financial distress, but I keep pushing forward as positive as possible!

"I hate excuses and prior to losing my wife I was always on my game and built a great hunting company. I offered Bill a payment plan some time ago, but he would not accept it....

Young Chuck, moved to Montana and bought a horse from a farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the horse the next day. The next day he drove up and said, 'Sorry son, but I have some bad news, the horse died.'

Chuck replied, 'Well, then just give me my money back.'

The farmer said, 'Can't do that. I went and spent it already.'

Chuck said, 'Ok, then, just bring me the dead horse.'

The farmer asked, 'What ya gonna do with him?

Chuck said, 'I'm going to raffle him off.'

The farmer said, 'You can't raffle off a dead horse!'

Chuck said, 'Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he's dead.'

A month later, the farmer met up with Chuck and asked, 'What happened with that dead horse?'

Chuck said, 'I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a net profit of $898.00.'

The farmer said, 'Didn't anyone complain?'

Chuck said, 'Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back.'

Bet Ty would have busted his tail to make it up to him one way or another if it had been approached that way - given him a cut rate on another hunt or something to make it up.

Bad etiquette on the part of Bill.

Bully for this guy for holding the outfitter accountable. He should accept the payment plan as a courtesy, and charge interest.

Tragedies happen, and this gentleman was kind enough to wait to pursue his claim. Just because "he has plenty of money" doesn't make "welching" on the contractual obligation acceptable by the outfitter.

Get burned a couple of times and see if you think it's "acceptable".

Also, to those suggesting its "tip money", I'd guess he tipped..... So you are advocating forced additional gratuity..... Wow.

I'm guessing the guy can do without $13K for a bit. And I bet he gets it back. If I drop $1300 as a down payment on a hunt (my world kind money) with someone I've had a good trip with 4 other times I'm not flaming them on the internet. It's a dick move.

Outfitter takes your money, you don't get to hunt, he KEEPS your money, then you write a negative review of his service online to prevent anyone else from making the same mistake.... And that make YOU the dick? That's absurd.

I've had guides change fundamentally from season to season. Previous trips can fail as indicators of present level of service.

I wear boxers. I work more hours than most people. I plunk my money down after earning it to pay for outfitted hunts. I've been burned. You obviously haven't.

Halibutman- The way I read the complaint he paid a deposit for a specific hunt or a roof in 2010 and then went on 4 more hunts or had a roof put on 4 houses then asked for a refund on a roof from first house that never got put on.

Good news the other desert raffle is sold out ad there are still tickets available for this hunt.

Sandbrew

Look at the timeline offered. Read what he wrote. This should make anyone considering this hunt run like hell. There is no way I would book a top tier hunt with this outfit. He owes the man his deposit back, period. Anything else justifies the negative review, period.

"Four years ago, I sent a deposit of $13,000 for a desert bighorn hunt in baja, mexico....I had hunted there four times before with him"

Maybe his cut from this raffle will be used to pay the debt owed to what is surely one of his best customers.

I don't know any of the parties involved in this thread. I'm just in the market actively for a desert bighorn hunt, so I pay attention to things like this. I know two mexico outfits I certainly won't be using. I'm probably not even going to mexico at all.... Since I'm going to pull an Arizona tag for sure! ;)

Maybe, maybe not, but I'd sure be happy to pack my bags tomorrow and hunt with them for a winning $100 raffle ticket.

I still think you are reading this situation wrong.

From Hunt Report quote - "Bill Foose tells us he placed a deposit with outfitter Ty Miller of El Fuerte Outfitters for a 2010 desert sheep hunt in Mexico. To date, the hunt has not happened and Foose has been unable to get his deposit money back."

According to both him and Ty the 2010 deposit was for a specific area and Ty said he couldn't get a tag there due to changes in leadership. Seems reasonable and I'm sure it happens.

"Four years ago, I sent a deposit for $13,000 for a desert bighorn hunt in Baja, Mexico with Ty Miller. Ty later called to tell me the community where the hunt was to take place (the ejido) would not honor the hunt. They changed their "president" and the new one coming in would not honor the original agreement. I had hunted there four times before with him."

I don't know if this 4 times hunting with Ty refers to prior to 2010 on the same Baja hunt he has a deposit for the next 4 years? I see Bill's photos on the website He hunted there 2011,2012 2013 and 2014 and he is listed as a reference still.

Good luck in AZ.

Sandbrew

Good luck guys.

Actually per Colorado State raffle rules the raffle drawing must happen on the date and time advertised on each ticket regardless of the number of tickets sold.

As of today 89 tickets have been sold and we are 68.4% of they way to paying off Bill Fosse's deposit. ;-)

Sandbrew

Fact: multiple posts on this thread support the outfitters ability to keep a deposit (a very large deposit) when he delivered no services whatsoever.

Fact: I'm unfollowing this thread now.

Good luck guys.

As far as fact 2 goes there are multiple posts about a single incident - not multiple posts supporting the outfitters ability to keep a deposit.

Just to be clear as thread owner I could have deleted any posts on this thread I wanted to but I chose to keep the debate public and on the up and up so nobody would think I was hiding any posts or details.

I wish you all the best in your quest for desert tag. Be sure you apply in Colorado the tag is cheap and the draw odds not so bad for nonresidents and no points.

Sandbrew

It is helping a great cause.

Wish everyone would stop the speculation. I know both of the parties involved (not the details) and It seems to me they are both getting smeared. If your worried then question it and do some research. Then decide to buy or not buy tickets. Keep in mind we all buy raffle tickets hoping to win but the real reason is to support an organization which has a cause you believe in! I think sometimes people forget that.

I know this is Bowsite, but for anyone that might also be interested in firearms, we have a raffle for an ultralight Kevin Weaver 7mm Rem mag that will be drawn on Saturday. Online ticket sales end at midnight tonight. Follow the link.

Any news on who won the rifle?

Thanks also to Bowsite for permitting this thread promoting our fundraising activities which allow us to fund the habitat, management and research projects that benefit all sheep hunters and enthusiasts. In the last 5 years, RMBS has directed over $1.4 million to such projects.

Draw the winner!! (Next week)

michael

The winning hunter can bring one buddy at no additional cost, and additional friends for $2,000 each. The winner will fly into either Cabo San Lucas or Loreto.

If you have any questions specific to the hunt, feel free to contact the outfitter, Ty Miller, at [email protected].

I asked my tax accountant sister in law about this a couple years ago and If I remember right she said if you won a super sweet tag in an auction such as the montana super tag, you would have to pay taxes on the general value of the tag. Now if you won a guided hunt you would have to pay taxes on the fair market value.

Im assuming the RMBS would be sending the winner a 1099 for the value. $75k would bring a hefty tax bill for a regular fella like myself, but then again it would be a hell of a lot less than the hunt...

michael

That is what I thought.

Again, I am NOT trying to talk anyone out of buying a ticket and supporting a great cause. However, between tips and the tax consequence, this represents a significant expense, as well as the hunt of a lifetime.....I think that everyone needs to be made aware of that....so they can budget accordingly, should they win.....

Good luck to everyone that is in this raffle! Hope someone on here wins and goes after that desert ram with a bow!

I would also like to thank Pat for allowing us to promote the raffle on Bowsite. It is much appreciated.

Congratulations to Sean and good luck! Should be an awesome experience and hunt!