tuning question
Equipment
The arrows I am shooting are 29" 300 spine gold tip kinetics and easton axis arrows with 150 grain heads and three 4" vanes. These are coming out of a 2014 hoyt faktor 34 with a 29" dl at 70 lbs.
i can get two blade heads impacting with field tips but the longer profile three blades are planning to the right on me. I thought two blades would be more difficult to tune?
Any thoughts on equipment and form things to look at would be appreciated... oh and all heads do spin true on the arrows
thanks.
Are both heads 150s? Is the fletching straight, helical or offset? Broadheads require helical or offset.
Does adjusting the rest left toward the FP group close the gap at all? If so you're nearly there.
Could be marginal spine with 150 heads, hard to say but easy to check out. Back out the limb bolt a few turns and see if it clears up. If so, maybe all you have to do is cut the shafts back a bit, 28-28.5 maybe.
WRT form etc. left/right issues can be grip torque or even cam lean. If there's no fletch contact with anything. =D
both heads are 150 grain. im shooting helical fletch.
the marginal spine is suprising to me.. i thought they would be pretty good but i can easily try that and moving the rest a little.. But even then why would the two blades tune up pretty nice?
thanks for the response
The cause of the variation is 'probably'....lateral nock travel caused by cam lean. You can decide on some fixes or not. There is nothing wrong with simply deciding what BH you want to shot, plotting your groups, and if they are acceptable, moving your pin. I am not a big fan of moving center shot too much. Or, you can find someone with a bow press and draw board and yoke tune the bow....with a bare shaft...but yoke tuning will change cam timing. Since it sounds like you are close, you already have done the classic fix, stiff arrow, 4" fletch and helical. The only other point is that i would not shoot a 150 grain BH with this set up. Some broadheads as we all know are better flyers than others. You might want to look at alternative 3 blade heads if that is your preference.
I am guessing you are marginal on spine. If I had to guess why the 3 blade won't tune but the 2 blade will. It's because of the longer profile pushing you over on your spine. Like TD said, trying turning your bow down. It will tell you right away if its a spine issue. I shot 300 kinetics at 27 3/4" carbon to carbon out of a 30" draw 72 lbs. I had 125 grain heads. I got them to tune but it wasn't easy.
what TD said, and fulldraw has a good point, what heads, and actual weight of each head
Same problem with both shafts? or do you have two blades on one shaft and three blades on different shafts?
Thanks for the ideas, i'll give lower poundage a shot and some other three blade heads as well. I wouldn't have guessed weak spine.... I'll follow up with the results...
the 3 blade 150s are 2.25" and the 2 blades are 1.9
Actually all heads are on the kinetics right now.. Maybe i'll swap the three blades on to the current two blade shafts and see what happens.. that would blow my mind if that straightened out the three blades though....
so i took the two blade head, screwed it on another arrow (that was shooting the three blade) and bam... dead center...
I took the three blade head, screwed it on the two blade arrow and it flew erratically...
So i guess the length of the head is too much for the spine. Or could it still be a shooting error where those heads are more difficult to shoot?
The two blades are slamming but i really wanted to hunt with a three blade or more... gonna check out some tricks and see how they shoot for me i think...
tried a 125 three blade still shoots right...
Are the two-blade heads all in the same orientation when nocked? ( like /, or \, or - for example) This might be a streatch, but it's possible you are slightly out of tune yet, but the two-blade heads may be "planing" opposite of the slightly poor flight, and correcting it.
its prolly me somehow.. i need to shoot some paper again and check that.. havent shot paper since last yr and switched up my form a little...
i have 2 two blades orientated like - and one like /. so i dont think it is the last suggestion.
i just tried a 125 muzzy and that hit 1" right at 20yrds..
so not sure why 2 blades are good but all 3 blades are off some to a lot
Unless it's a good ways out of tune paper isn't going to tell you much, paper is a rough tune. I didn't read where you have adjusted anything yet?
You're almost there I would think. Use the worst head to tune with and move your rest toward the FP groups. "Chase the FP". Only a sliver at a time. If all else is good this should get you there. All the heads, 2 blade, 3 blade, etc. should be right in there. If that doesn't do it then maybe there is something with the mechanics, but sounds like you are pretty close already.
Re-sight after all groups converge into one. Good to go.
I still think a 150 grain head on a 29" shaft, 70 lbs out of a fairly hot bow is getting to the fuzzy edges of spine, even with a 300 shaft. Could be OK. Or could be an issue.
thanks man... ill keep shooting and tweaking..
all i have done so far is switched up arrows and head
I have no experience with them..... but several guys have posted on here over the years about tuning problems with Muzzy broadheads...
They can't get the bow tuned with the Muzzys, but put on a different 3 blade COC head and the problem goes away.
IDK, I'm just pointing that out as a possibility. Something to look into.
thanks.. my buddy is gonna let me borrow some slick tricks and will see how they fly..
thanks for the comments...
well, stopped and picked up some 100 grain black hornets and hitting dead center... Thanks for all the info, i NEVER would have thought spine and would still be tweaking to get the 150s to fly...
What spine should i get for the 150s?
thanks again
Probably don't need different shafts, just cut a half inch or so off the ones you have(if you have room), that'll stiffen them up some.
Might also be that your 150 three blade heads are rejects, and may never fly well.
I am a 30" draw as well as shooting 70 lb limbs. But I shoot 28" carbon to carbon. The last 2 years I have shot 300's with a 125 grain tip. I got them to tune but I had to work at it a bit. I honestly don't know if you will get them to tune unless you go to a 27" carbon to carbon shaft. Even then I don't know if it will. I wanted to shoot 150 grain heads this year so I was banking on going up to a 250 spine Victory VAP shaft. I was also going to shoot a 35 grain outsert with them. Your similar to what I was faced with so that's an option for you. Black Eagle makes 250 spine shafts as well. You can get a kinetic in 200 spine but that will be plenty stiff for only having 70 lb limbs and 150 grain tip.
200 spine?? Wow that would be one heavy arrow...
thanks guys...
well, a 150 head is one heavy head....
unless of course you're launching it like you're throwing it..... =D
Trad guys can use those weights because they aren't shooting them out of a bow trying to break 300 fps. Inherently poor launch for the most part which is why they pray to the weight forward gods to help with the stabilization. Extreme weight forward is not a big deal out of a compound with a release. They come off the bow much cleaner.
Bottom line the faster you try to push things, the more whatever weight at the head of it tries to make a noodle out of the shaft.
When you reach the point where things are becoming unwound.... You can reduce the weight at the head, reduce the push, or stiffen the noodle (sometimes by just shortening it) Or any combination of the above. But alas.... as in many things in life... can't have it all... I know... I've tried.... there was this club in Vegas....
TD, is this a what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas kind of story?;-)
Glad you got it fixed. Thats why I never ever shoot a muzzy they fly all sorts of crazy. I hope I can get mine fixed.
Well this is why I shoot mechanicals. Too many headaches with fixed blade broad heads. I've shot fixed and got some to tune and some not. It just requires a lot of patience and trial and error. I see no reason not to shoot mechanicals on deer size animals as long as you have enough draw weight,etc. I shoot 70 lbs with roughly a 450 grain arrow and have never not got a pass thru on probably 30 deer . But with that said, what are yall's thoughts on mechanicals for elk, specifically rage hypodermic's? Im a little skeptical so Im considering fixed for upcoming elk hunt
