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2nd American investigated for lion kill
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Contributors to this thread:
jrb(CO) 02-Aug-15
sawtooth 02-Aug-15
gobbler 02-Aug-15
Topgun 30-06 02-Aug-15
bowman94 02-Aug-15
Bigpizzaman 02-Aug-15
JTV 02-Aug-15
bowbender77 02-Aug-15
cityhunter 02-Aug-15
bowbearman 02-Aug-15
sawtooth 02-Aug-15
JTV 02-Aug-15
bigdog21 02-Aug-15
Bigpizzaman 02-Aug-15
Matt 02-Aug-15
ToddT 02-Aug-15
Kevin Dill 03-Aug-15
Bigpizzaman 03-Aug-15
Jimbo 03-Aug-15
Kevin Dill 03-Aug-15
TrapperKayak 03-Aug-15
Bigpizzaman 03-Aug-15
Zbone 03-Aug-15
Ollie 03-Aug-15
Kevin Dill 03-Aug-15
Bigpizzaman 03-Aug-15
Brotsky 03-Aug-15
Medicinemann 03-Aug-15
R. Hale 03-Aug-15
Pig Doc 03-Aug-15
Brotsky 03-Aug-15
CTCrow 03-Aug-15
writer 03-Aug-15
Pig Doc 03-Aug-15
PAbowhunter1064 03-Aug-15
Bigpizzaman 03-Aug-15
cityhunter 03-Aug-15
Pig Doc 03-Aug-15
cityhunter 03-Aug-15
writer 03-Aug-15
From: jrb(CO)
02-Aug-15

jrb(CO)'s Link
Now they are looking at Jan Seski. This is getting stupid.

From: sawtooth
02-Aug-15
Someday hunters will learn that posting pictures of dead animals for public viewership is counterproductive. Like it or not, we live in a liberal society and getting worse.

From: gobbler
02-Aug-15
That's a "fact" filled piece of investigative "journalism".

Who knew there were endangered water buffalo in Africa? It's amazing how much that "tiny deer" looks like a duiker. At least the writer had concern about the poor hunters that can't trespass anymore.

From: Topgun 30-06
02-Aug-15
Yep, and another real "fact" that elephants are going downhill due to over hunting! How about calling it what it really is---poaching by natives.

From: bowman94
02-Aug-15
Outstandingly ridiculous.

From: Bigpizzaman
02-Aug-15
Unbelievable!!

From: JTV
02-Aug-15
Another lousy piece of "investigative" journalism..... these SOB's can make the winner of the lotto sound like a thief ... they smell blood and no one is safe....

From: bowbender77
02-Aug-15
As this can of crap evolves thru the lift wing driven Disney mentality media, it becomes more than obvious that the anti hunting animal rights agenda is on a feeding frenzy. And guess what, if your a bowhunter, your on the menu. Facts and truth be damned.

From: cityhunter
02-Aug-15
It seems the day has come the antis have launched a full scale war!! at the moment Africa is in there sights . I would not be shocked if the charges are fabricated with bribes from the antis .

From: bowbearman
02-Aug-15
Unreal!!!!

From: sawtooth
02-Aug-15
City, I too would not put it past Anti's to fabricate these stories. However, there are plenty of instances where hunters buy trophies at bars, poach, cheat with high fence kills, use cameras, advance technology such as crossbows, surround elk herds and blast from trucks( Helena Montana), shoot at night, steal from other hunters, poach in American Parks etc, etc.

The quest for head and horn porn has lead to these type of instances. APR's verify we no longer hunt for solitude, population control, tradition and food. Most hunt for ego satisfaction. Maybe it is time for voters and landowners to reconsider the benefits of hunting. Besides revenue, what exactly are the benefits of killing populations, especially those already in decline? Why attach an APR to it?

From: JTV
02-Aug-15
Recently the FBI made 2 arrests of PETAophiles/ALFers who went across the country burning, vandalizing various mink farms, residences and business doing hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages....arrested were Joesph Brian Buddenberg and Nicole J. Kissane both of Oakland, Calfornia....they traveled over 40,000 miles from coast to coast to coast terrorizing the public and private citizens, returning to Cal. only to withdraw more money(never used cards or checks) and to make more plans for terrorism.... Both were charged with the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act which both can recieve up to 10 years in federal prison and up to a $250,00 fine each..... The arrests were made this past July...... bet ya didnt hear about this on the MSM ... no, of course not ....

From: bigdog21
02-Aug-15
it just the way it is man has always been in compation with one another then the record books dont help either theres a lot of people will do anything for bragging purposes. And to be THE MAN they even have compations who can kill the most. Its probably to far out of hand to stop Intel hunting is not allowed dont get me wrong i know there are lots of good hunter but the ones being bad get the spot light on all of use. I had a famaly member baiting deer on are property he got to meet the conservation office and no longer hunts here.

From: Bigpizzaman
02-Aug-15
As I said it's unbelievable, after speaking to Jan he wasn't in Zimbabwe or even Africe when this Lion was killed! But now he had protestors and reporters in his driveway!!

From: Matt
02-Aug-15
If folks were smart and able, they would point out the factual inaccuracies of the reporting to those to whom the reporters report. That is nothing more than shoddy journalism.

From: ToddT
02-Aug-15
Im not sure which was more amusing, the nyala dubbed as a gemsbok, or the blue wildabeast dubbed as an endangered African water buffalo.

Actually amusing is the wrong term, actually a more correct term would be frustrating and irritating, and maybe even down right infuriating.

Personally, I don't mind those who don't want to hunt. I don't even mind those who think it is wrong, but are open to reasonable conversation, it is those who very well would openly inflict harm on a hunter that really gets me.

In a nutshell, the general non-hunting public is pretty ignorant when it comes to things as simple as general animal identification, much less, how hunts are conducted, animal populations, etc. Those are the dangerous ones.

As far as the hunting for ego goes, I have seen it firsthand. I have a personal friend, who is a great guy, but he never hunted until he was in his 40's. Then after a lifetime of building wealth, he had a butt load of money to spend, and I guess he thought that to be "manly" a guy had to shoot stuff. And shoot stuff he has. He came to me about 10 years ago and said he wanted a 200 inch whitetail and asked me where he should go for it. I explained that deer that size do not come easily, but gave him a few choice destinations. I even invited him with me to a few locations that I have had the good fortune to take several bucks around 150 inches, but that didn't seem to make the cut. So he tried Texas free range, and killed a couple bucks around 140 - 150, then he went to Saskatchewan, and returned with a handful of bucks in the 150 range. All were nice free range bucks, even if they were on private ground and it cost a lot of money to get into. But that wasn't good enough, so he made plans for a Texas high fence hunt. Now, $60,000 later, he has three bucks that net over 200 inches.

The deer do nothing for me, because I realize how they got that big, but he is happy to state that he killed all of those nice bucks, and when we are in a situation where a few hunters are gathered, he is quick to point out what he has shot. As mentioned, he really is a great guy, and he does a lot for others. He is self made, so he doesn't carry the attitude that many do that were born into luxury. But I can definitely see that all the hunting he has done was simply, and solely for ego. I see him as more of a collector than a hunter.

The primary point being, rather than to bash him, or anyone else, I believe this fact is fairly evident among many collectors. As a whole, the end result is all the same, money and time spent, an animal taken and a trophy kept. And who am I to say that there is only one manner in which to hunt, or choose to hunt, but I believe when the dust settles, those who do it simply for the ego, really offer up a cold, stale, and almost nasty little package to the antis, to use as ammunition as they try so hard to take away our right to do what we hold so dear.

I wish these guys the best and hope they are able to rectify to some degree, the terrible perception that the media has spun on this situation. If most or all of these accusations have zero merit, it would be nice if they could sue someone, some entity and then maybe such a thing would significantly slow any future lies coming from these liberal bunny hugging idiots.

From: Kevin Dill
03-Aug-15
ToddT...spot on, every point.

There is so much high-profile, ego-fulfillment hunting going on these days...and the results are splashed across the web. Not just the story or the pictures, but video of the killing. Often there is very little context, and it appears to be a kill for the sake of killing or self-glorification. The prime indicator of that is when a person must 'share' and be noticed or acknowledged...or else it's meaningless to hunt. One can only speculate on how much of this high-profile and extreme high-dollar hunting is motivated by ego rewards.

That said, you CAN'T police a guy's motivation as long as he's legal. He's got as much right to hunt as anyone does. But that doesn't mean he (and his result) isn't being noticed by those who don't enjoy it and have the subsequent ability to (perhaps collectively) affect or prevent future opportunities for all of us to hunt.

Is there anyone here who can't understand: A non-hunting mother of 2 kids hears that a wealthy American doctor paid over $50,000 to kill an animal and it turns her against hunting? Her voice will be added to the calls to end sport hunting for animals that end up in two places primarily: the internet and a trophy room. I don't agree with her, but she just might someday belong to the majority which has their way with this.

'Perception is Reality" is an oft-stated warning, and it bears repeating. I think hunters HAVE to be aware of how the non-hunting world perceives us and what we do...or suffer the consequences of our own blindness.

From: Bigpizzaman
03-Aug-15
Kevin that non-hunting mother of two, many are single, kids for two different sperm donors, on government assistance and in a new bad relationship which is all over Social media.

The hunter works all year to pay for an expensive trip, hits the gym every morning and practices his Archery in the afternoons. He puts up on Social Media the results.

One is shamed but the other is totally acceptable?

Is this what the world/U.S. ha some too?

From: Jimbo
03-Aug-15
ToddT, great post.

Kevin Dill, really solid follow up on ToddT's post. Two of the best posts I've read on this much-discussed subject.

From: Kevin Dill
03-Aug-15
BPM...appreciate your wisdom, and thanks for exactly making my point for me: It only takes a few people acting out of the need for attention to skew the public's perception of the whole.

You can stereotype non-hunting mothers (and insult many of them needlessly too) while the majority of them are busting their asses to make ends meet for their families. The ones who thrive on social media and public assistance don't represent the whole...same as an ego-driven hunter who seeks accolades for his achievements doesn't represent all hunters. The problem is the perception...and where it leads. You can defend it; meanwhile while the torch-carrying antihunters build their masses and overrun the fort.

This is a war of perception more than anything, and we'll lose it if we choose to ignore what people think about our behaviors. I'll be the first to say I'm against having to adjust my behaviors to satisfy someone else's sensibilities. I think it makes logical sense to understand how my hunting-related behaviors are received and used for or against you...me...and all hunters.

Edit: I'd like to add to this and say I am FOR hunting lions and other species which require careful management to assure a perpetual existence. I do think we need to be aware of whether that hunting is doing us any harm in terms of public reaction and lost opportunities to hunt.

From: TrapperKayak
03-Aug-15
Sawtooth, I have to respectfully disagree. Caving to the leftist whackos is not the answer. We kill animals, and we should be able to put our pictures out there in respectable fashion for other hunters and interested people to see. To H#%$ with the liberals and other idiots who don't 'like' that! I'm not saying post a bunch of disrespectful pics of your deer head mounted on the grill of your 4x4 or hang your deer in plain sight in the front yard for passersby to view, but a decent photo posing with it should be no problem. Hey, if the Gay Pride Parade in every screwed up liberal city of the world can just flaunt themselves and it's okay, then why shouldn't we be able to do what we want? The left is winning out now days - that is because we are letting them have their way. WE can flaunt it too D#^*It. We KILL stuff, we don't need to say we HARVEST it either. Bunny huggers, go to the PETA meeting and stay out of my business - eat me. I'm going hunting. And you can kiss my butt if you don't like my pictures of the KILLS.

From: Bigpizzaman
03-Aug-15
Kevin,

I believe Social Media being relatively new is an issue we are still trying to grasp. All platforms have "rules" be it Bowsite, Facebook, etc and most posts comfort to those "Rules" problem is posts are judged on personal values. Who is to decide who's value's are right or wrong?

I painted Mothers with a broad brush on purpose, because it's what Bowhunters are being painted with now, you came to their defense right away? Can we as Bowhunters do the same?

It's amazing how a bad hunter or a poacher can taint us all. Did the actions of Tom Brady make Arron Rogers look bad? Saturday night there was a shameful incident during an MMA fight it damn sure did't effect Rhonda Rousey!

I believe if we accept the idea that a few bad apples can represent us they will. I agree with 90% of what you say, just I refuse to be judged by others actions!

From: Zbone
03-Aug-15
Since they're on a roll, can see this left wing liberal media next going after outdoor channels celebrity heroes... They better have their ducks in a row cause its coming.... Whether we as hunters like it or not (I can't stomach them) its sad they portray hunting to the non-hunting public because these numbskull redneck bubbas are on the tube...

From: Ollie
03-Aug-15
Much of the non-stop phony outrage about this incident is to divert attention away from those incidents which should truly solicit this type of response...the selling of baby parts by Planned Parenthood, Hillary Clinton's wiped computer drive, etc, etc. The liberal media LOVES to create new outrages to protect their liberal causes and heroes.

From: Kevin Dill
03-Aug-15
+ Ollie, Zbone and Bigpizzaman...

BPM...

"Who is to decide who's value's are right or wrong?"

I'm 100% WITH you on not being judged by what others do. It doesn't stop the reality which is that a large number of people are judging all hunters by the actions of a few hunters. It's certainly not fair...but it IS the reality. Refusing it doesn't negate it.

Caving is not the answer to handling negative public sentiment. Neither is a scorched-earth counter-offensive which alienates non-hunters more than it helps them understand.

"Damn the torpedoes" sounds good until all the torpedoes are pointed at us. Anyone who doesn't understand that the Zimbabwe incidents can reach far beyond Africa and have implications in other desirable hunting venues needs a reality check!

From: Bigpizzaman
03-Aug-15
Kevin,

I agree the implications are FAR reaching and I don't have all the answers by any means. We try not be influanced by the Media and Political Correctness but we are. We are an easy target, few understand us, most of us are Caucasian and male and we fight amongst ourselves.

We do need a United front to survive this, we will just have to agree which "Front" it is going to be??

From: Brotsky
03-Aug-15
The reporting on this would be laughable if it wasn't so potentially damaging to our sport. Jericho is dead, no wait he's not. Another hunter did this or that, but he wasn't even there. Based on my limited knowledge of the situation it seems there are two factions in Zimbabwe who are at odds with each other on big game hunting. The faction that is against it (and who apparently the MSM is using as their source) keeps reporting all of this bogus information. The parks and wildlife group that supports hunting keeps refuting it, but only after further damage is done. Where's the culpability for the media outlets in reporting this garbage? Credibility certainly doesn't mean anything anymore.

From: Medicinemann
03-Aug-15
Brotsky X 2

From: R. Hale
03-Aug-15
If anyone cares to do some research on Headman Sibanda, the answers will become apparent.

From: Pig Doc
03-Aug-15

Pig Doc's embedded Photo
Pig Doc's embedded Photo
Is this the image we want?

From: Brotsky
03-Aug-15
Why do I always think that's Vladimir Putin every time I see it?

From: CTCrow
03-Aug-15
LMAO I also thought it was Vladi.

From: writer
03-Aug-15
Love the Putin shot...thanks for the laugh.

Sent you a P.M. Brotsky.

From: Pig Doc
03-Aug-15
Well, that's our buddy Walt showing the world what the rest of us bow hunters are all about.

03-Aug-15
"Where's the culpability for the media outlets in reporting this garbage? Credibility certainly doesn't mean anything anymore." - Brotsky

This is EXACTLY what I've been wondering myself! It's not just this story either...it's every story that is put out anymore. I can turn to 4 different Cable TV news networks, turn on the radio and listen to 3 different talking heads, and get 7 different stories! The media only puts out what they want us to see and hear...unbiased journalism and reporting is dead. I've seen so much false information on this incident, and it seems to flip-flop everyday.

So what can be done? Do we confront these media outlets, and let them know what they're doing is wrong, immoral, and deplorable? I've been reading alot of chatter on here the past few days about hunters sticking together...unifying, and standing up for our cause. Perhaps our cause should be to hold these media outlets accountable for what they report. What if each one of us contacts NBC, CNN, FOXNews, MSNBC, etc., via email, and let them know what they are reporting is false, biased, and untrue? Let them know we are not happy with how we are all being portrayed as hunters, and will boycott if necessary. We can start the #BowhunterLivesMatter campaign, and bully the hell out of anyone who stands against us. I'm dying to get a gay PETA members bakery shut down for not making me a cake with a dead lion on it! Would it make a difference? Would it be a start?

From: Bigpizzaman
03-Aug-15

Bigpizzaman's embedded Photo
Bigpizzaman's embedded Photo

From: cityhunter
03-Aug-15
Imagine such a smart man like that Teddy from NYC and one of the greatest conservationist .. Without Teddy and a select few we would not have the places to hunt the species we have ! We all owe this man . God Bless

Tim conservation started in the Bronx ! Bronx zoo Teddy supplied big game and other species for the heads and horns building inside the Bx zoo ,, Come to think of it Teddy is the one that got me into hunting !!

From: Pig Doc
03-Aug-15
Good post BPM. I have made plenty of them. Thankfully I have had friends and family kick me in the rear and point me back in the right direction. That's all I'm saying in all of these posts. We as hunters need to kick each other in the rear when we see bad behavior. If we just condone it and say "we are bow hunters and have to stick together" we will eventually lose out to the anti's. Maybe if someone had done that with Palmer before the media fiasco he just created it could have been avoided.

I'm done with this topic. I'm sure many of you are happy about that.

From: cityhunter
03-Aug-15

cityhunter's embedded Photo
cityhunter's embedded Photo
I was allowed in the heads and horns building when i was a kid its long been closed to public all mounts have become property of the BC club and some made it to Buff Bill museum in Cody WY

Talk about American hunting history !!

From: writer
03-Aug-15
"We all owe this man " - one of the greatest Americans of all time.

Carried a pistol around the White House because he thought it was his job to protect his family.

If he couldn't get along with someone, he had them come over for a boxing or wrestling match.

White House was loaded with an assortment of animals, my favorite was Josiah, a baby badger a little girl gave him when he was at Sharon Springs, Kansas. The badger got to ride in the presidential train car across the country.

One of Josiah's favorite things was to wait until someone was in the hammock, then sneak in and bite them in the butt. He also liked chasing uninvited press members off the White House lawn.

So did Teddy....

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