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20/20 (ABC)tonight- The Lion Story
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Contributors to this thread:
Rut Nut 14-Aug-15
Bou'bound 14-Aug-15
Rut Nut 14-Aug-15
Bou'bound 14-Aug-15
KTH 14-Aug-15
JTV 14-Aug-15
Screwball 14-Aug-15
spike78 14-Aug-15
Genesis 14-Aug-15
DonVathome 14-Aug-15
BigSky 14-Aug-15
Rut Nut 14-Aug-15
LBshooter 14-Aug-15
LBshooter 14-Aug-15
Thornton 15-Aug-15
arctichill 15-Aug-15
Barrera 15-Aug-15
trkytrack 15-Aug-15
Dollar 15-Aug-15
gobbler 15-Aug-15
LongbowLes 15-Aug-15
AZ~Rich 15-Aug-15
cityhunter 15-Aug-15
kevin3006 15-Aug-15
cityhunter 15-Aug-15
Jeff Durnell 15-Aug-15
MeanMachine 15-Aug-15
Buffalo1 15-Aug-15
writer 15-Aug-15
helfy 15-Aug-15
Cottonwood88 15-Aug-15
IdyllwildArcher 15-Aug-15
cityhunter 16-Aug-15
Rut Nut 17-Aug-15
Zbone 17-Aug-15
bowriter 17-Aug-15
Rut Nut 17-Aug-15
writer 17-Aug-15
ahunter55 17-Aug-15
Bou'bound 17-Aug-15
bowriter 18-Aug-15
Zbone 18-Aug-15
R. Hale 18-Aug-15
midwest 18-Aug-15
bowriter 18-Aug-15
Bou'bound 18-Aug-15
R. Hale 18-Aug-15
loprofile 18-Aug-15
From: Rut Nut
14-Aug-15
Just saw it "advertised" an hr ago- looks like the whole hour of 20/20 tonight will be devoted to Palmer and the Lion. 10 pm ABC

From: Bou'bound
14-Aug-15
wonderful, just figgin' wonderful

From: Rut Nut
14-Aug-15
Yeah, I figured this wasn;t over yet...................not by a long shot! :(

Also was a fairly long segment on his black bear conviction about 10 min ago on Inside Edition. Claimed he tried to pay off his hunting partners to lie for him and lied himself when interviewed by Federal Officials- twice. Of course they said he was living in FLA, not Minnesota.

From: Bou'bound
14-Aug-15

Bou'bound's Link
link attached

warning

DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT, WATCH WITHOUT AIR SICKNESS BAG IN HAND

From: KTH
14-Aug-15
I'm sure they'll make us as hunters look like the conservationists that we are.

From: JTV
14-Aug-15
I dont watch ABC or any of the alphabet channels as it is...... it will be tilted anti-hunting 100 % .....

From: Screwball
14-Aug-15
Was in Minneapolis today, Big news this morning on every channel over there. Protest today with all forming a lion and having a picture taken from a plane. Ended on one channel with, Dentist is still in hiding, we are now hunting him! Great, Just Frigin Great! Couldn't say it any better Bou.

From: spike78
14-Aug-15
Hello America, I guess you havent heard that our leader allowed an extremist nation to have nuclear weapons or our own soldiers have been killed on our own soil. Or I dont know, over 5000 killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Get over your damn lion thats killed lion cubs and every other animal roaming Africa.

From: Genesis
14-Aug-15
Bravo Chaps!.....another thread perfect for Facebook......

We need a Drama Queen Icon :)

From: DonVathome
14-Aug-15
I just finished watching it as expected it was frustrating but to be honest it wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Disclaimer I was expecting to be pretty bad.

They were definitely biased but they did allow several people to speak that help our case. I forget the name of the woman who is obviously a well-traveled big game hunter but she did very well.

From: BigSky
14-Aug-15
Rebecca Francis from Wyoming.

From: Rut Nut
14-Aug-15
Yes Don- I was surprised too. STILL very slanted towards the anti-huntin movement, but they did devote some (very little) of the coverage to "our" point of view. They even interviewed the Zimbabwe national that wrote the letter WE DON'T CRY FOR LIONS IN ZIMBABWE.

From: LBshooter
14-Aug-15
Yes and they made it clear if it doesn't pay it doesn't stay. The reporter was just so sympathetic, whatever happened to being unbiased and just reporting the facts. Thought he was going to cry with the safari park lady, pathetic. The only reason she's sad is her revenue is going down because Cecil is not there to draw tourists. All she needs to do is rename Jericho as Cecil and they will come.

From: LBshooter
14-Aug-15
Also, it matters how to take photos of your trophy. As the woman laying next to the giraffe is an example of what not to do IMO. Show the respect after the life you've taken. Nothing wrong with photos but do it with some taste.

From: Thornton
15-Aug-15
I've gotten a bad taste in my mouth watching all this over the last few weeks. Not sure how much is true but if half of it is, I'm out. This pay to play mindset of idiots shooting animals at night under the guise of "management" is BS. $50k for a cat?! That would pay off half my 80 acres! Laying down next to a giraffe you won't even eat? I hunt elk, turkeys, and whitetails because they are smarter than me and it is a big success to take one in his environment and on his time. And no I don't use corn piles.

From: arctichill
15-Aug-15
Thank you Thornton for reminding every hunter in the country that we should be doing what you are doing and for the same reasons. I didn't realize I was such an "idiot" so thank you for bringing that to my attention. Going forward I'll try to do a much better job of bowhunting in strict accordance with your requirements.

From: Barrera
15-Aug-15
I can care less of the this lyon. My heart goes out the dentist and his family. How about the 3300 babies aborted every day in the name of women's rights. Abortion is unconstitutional as it violates the rights of a American citizen. And planned parent hood selling aborted baby body parts is beyond belief. The liberal left is discusting.

From: trkytrack
15-Aug-15
As mentioned, the ABC, CBS, NBC, big kahuna TV stations are always pretty bias in any programs aired that involve anything with hunting. Killing babies for profit is something that they won't discuss or cover because they buy into the belief that a baby ain't a baby until it's standing on it's own two feet crying mama. I honestly couldn't watch the whole program because , as usual, they used distorted facts and fiction to make their case. As an example, the hundreds of millions of dollars a year that tourist bring into the park and country. What??? Where are the actual numbers to prove such a statement? The only hundreds of millions of dollars that country would ever get would be from the Obama Administration in welfare money. All said, this Doctor has given the honest hunting community a black eye.

From: Dollar
15-Aug-15
Tourist come to a country in Africa and spend $100's maybe a couple $2000.Then move on and see the next tourist trap.But hunters come and start spending $5000 each and go up from there.Maybe thats why hunting has resumed.

From: gobbler
15-Aug-15
I thought the show was biased, however they did present opposing views which is more than I expected.

They did play up the crying lady a bit, but that shows that emotions rather than science and biology is their only argument against hunting.

From: LongbowLes
15-Aug-15
I didn't make it through all of it either. Got a laugh out of it when they mentioned "Cecil's neighbors, The Elephants"

From: AZ~Rich
15-Aug-15
I'm afraid this will not end anytime soon. PETA and the other antis must be planning more activities to leverage their newly found weight with this unfortunate incident. It might be food for thought if the hunting community began to gravitate away from referring to their harvested game as "Trophies".

Many non-hunting folks think of a "trophy" as something representing that you won something against an animal instead of harvesting it for reasonable purposes; such as being part of a conservation effort by controlling game numbers where scientifically needed, and/or for its meat.

We need to be explaining that this best accomplished by filtering out the oldest (non-reproducing) animals from that population and those are what we consider to be the true prize (i.e, Trophies). Afterall, they are the oldest and smartest and have already passed on their exceptional qualities.

We also need to understand what is being perceived as reality by non-hunters who IMO, could easily be turned into determined anti-hunters. Seeing all those photos of gleeful hunters posing sometimes in disrespectful ways over their kills only tends to solidify perceptions that "trophy hunters" are doing this for reasons that do not fully cut it with non-hunters. I too am guilty of posting those with the intent of showing how excited and thrilled I was to make it all come together after much effort.

I also think the word "Sport" hunting gives non-hunters a perplexing and contradicting view of our activities. Sports in its common interpretation usually refers to human to human competitions, which in the case of hunting is seen to be competitions between hunters to kill the biggest or the most game. Just look at professional fishing tournaments as an example. However even that is more palatable for the public since most of the fish are released unharmed. Conceptually, hunting is just not as accepted by the public when the activity is cloaked in the context of "Sport".

All I am saying is that we hunters should seriously start thinking about how we can become and remain an accepted part of society as a whole and not be redefined as criminals against nature by what the anti-hunters are trying very hard to do right now.

Painting the picture needed will require a broad effort by all hunters in their dealings with the non-hunting public. Hunting is many things to the many people who do it. For some it is a religious experience for others a casual pastime activity or social event. If more non-hunters understood the spiritual elevation which hunters undergo plus the goodness which is derived from our connection with nature and our drive/commitment to preserve the ecosystems and resources for everyone not just hunters; then we would be held in esteem rather than possibly being despised as a group.

The ball is and always has been in our court.

From: cityhunter
15-Aug-15

cityhunter's embedded Photo
cityhunter's embedded Photo
this is the bear he got nailed for i wonder if he tried or did enter it into the PY club !!! so much for fair chase and ethics !!

And he is still a member of the PY club how funny is that ..

From: kevin3006
15-Aug-15
Well I guess here goes another thread going to be turned into a PY bash.

From: cityhunter
15-Aug-15

cityhunter's embedded Photo
cityhunter's embedded Photo
KEVIN I GUESS IT DOSENT BOTHER U ! that a club based on ethics and fair chase allows a poacher to be a member !! U cant preach ethics and fair chase to his members and turn a blind eye when a member is a poacher .

From: Jeff Durnell
15-Aug-15
AZ-Rich, I concur entirely about 'trophies' and 'sport'. I think it's disrespectful and a bit bizarre to view dead animals as trophies and hunting certainly doesn't seem like a sport, game, or competition to me. It's much, much more serious.

I feel this way and I've been bowhunting 35 years, so it's no stretch whatsoever for me to believe the vast majority, the non-hunting/voting public, could view it/us similarly.

From: MeanMachine
15-Aug-15
The beginning of the show was lots of anti-hunting BS and really a poor excuse by ABC to show a fair side of the story. I would say ABC had only about 50% of their facts correct. At the ending of the show ABC was trying to show more of a pro-hunting view. ABC projected that show for the non-hunter spectators and to try to give a fair prospective. This was a absolute failure in my opinion on the part of 20/20 and ABC.

From: Buffalo1
15-Aug-15
A biased info-commercial for anti-hunting. Many distorted and incorrect alleged facts.

From: writer
15-Aug-15
Trying to decide if I should watch it or not, as a hunter and a journalist.

Many think something isn't fair if it's not totally on their side. Several times what I've heard was biased really wasn't that bad...

Then again, some of the initial reporting about the lion incident was possibly the worst I've seen in 34 years, and would get you kicked out of any decent Reporting 1 class in college.

Still amazing news anchors shed a tear over a lion, and keep a straight face when reporting about ISIS executions, the shooting of four Marines in the U.S. and millions of kids dying of malnutrition around the world.

From: helfy
15-Aug-15
always liked jimmy kimmel on the man show now I think he better check I think his penis must of fell off

From: Cottonwood88
15-Aug-15
Well, I would say it was a lot better than I thought. I think it is very important that leaders in our sport speak directly to this issue and especially to the issue of sport hunting and its place within reason in order to protect our heritage.

15-Aug-15
"Still amazing news anchors shed a tear over a lion, and keep a straight face when reporting about ISIS executions, the shooting of four Marines in the U.S. and millions of kids dying of malnutrition around the world."

Truly amazing.

From: cityhunter
16-Aug-15
Ike it easy to see how some cry for a lion and then dont blink a eye on other matters.. people disassociate from certain topics, we have become dumb to certain horrible crimes upon humans and except it. Sad it is but humans are great at adapting to harsh conditions . People see this lion as a family pet, innocent, helpless that's why the worldwide hysteria

From: Rut Nut
17-Aug-15
I agree city- the problem starts when you NAME a wild animal! We see that around here with black bears. People feed them and name them and treat them as their pets. Then when somebody shoots them in hunting season there is a big uproar! Amazing how some people quickly forget these are WILD animals! :(

From: Zbone
17-Aug-15
Ya know Rut Nut you bring up a good point. I find myself guilty of naming a few bucks I've chased through the years and a few does I've become familiarized with like "Gimp", an old doe with a healed broken back ankle.... Have a lone fawn been showing up regular in the backfield the past few weeks I assumed been orphaned and thinking about naming it, but now I think you're right, it's probably not a good idea... Heck, there is even threads right now on this page of the forum naming deer ("Freak Show" and "Spork")... No more names for me... Thanks

From: bowriter
17-Aug-15
Seems to me, all the facts and figures I have heard about this is mostly just lyin. Truth is, I figger the guy with no legs is behint it all and he is ending up with 10-months for murder.

Be honest with you, that gal he killed looked to me to be more of a trophy that lion. And remember, he used a handgun.

Aint no accountin of Africa. Whynt we just move on?

From: Rut Nut
17-Aug-15
Z-bone- I am also guilty of it at times too. But I think the real problem is when you give them HUMAN names. I can understand giving them a nickname that describes their physical appearance so you can tell them apart. But when you give them names like Cecil, Harry, Thelma etc.............. that's where the problem starts.

Heck, we had a bear around here that the local WCO(game warden) nicknamed "scar belly" for obvious reasons.

From: writer
17-Aug-15
Interesting angle, John.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Now, if he'da stepped on the tail of lion cub he'd have gotten 10 years, instead.

From: ahunter55
17-Aug-15

ahunter55's embedded Photo
ahunter55's embedded Photo
I read 2 articles written by people that live where this happened. Seems NO ONE locally knows of the Lion. Locals said, where is the outcry for all the "humans" killed by Lions & Elephants. These articles also said Americans that have never been to this area or EVEN AFRICA seem to know more than the locals.. NO ONE there is concerned over the death of a lion in any way. The locals said they need to be addressing the REAL POACHER problems rampant in the area & not a licensed hunter from ANY country.

From: Bou'bound
17-Aug-15
Hunters keep looking at this situation and discounting it because the people are lying, crazy, emotional, don't understand, should worry about people not animals, have bigger issues to focus on etc. etc. etc.

That is all irrelevant. What matters is the anti's live for these little things to pop up so they can blow them out of proportion and get people emotionally invested in their point of view.

This was never, and will never be, about facts. It is about the fact our opponents will use this tactic to get a visceral response from people who otherwise would not give a toot about hunting pro or con.

From: bowriter
18-Aug-15
And I got bashed...on this forum a few years ago, for saying that hunters should be more mindfull of the trophy photos they take and "clean" them up a little. And now, all of a sudden, there is something wrong with some woman lying down in front of a dead animal?

Make up your minds. Is that worse than a deer's tongue hanging out with blood all over it and a beer can in the photo?

From: Zbone
18-Aug-15
Yeah Rut Nut you are right, just human names, especially the cute names...8^)

After thinking about it how am I going to distinguish critters between, can't have half a dozen spikes and call them all "Spike"...8^) Gotta be "Big Spike, LiL Spike, etc...8^)

From: R. Hale
18-Aug-15
Does anyone find it incongruent that a man would live by a "bow hunting" mantra and yet shoot a lion with a spotlight at night? With a bow? Even if legal? I find it pitiful, vane and ego driven.

You may say, "You might shoot a lion or leopard or elephant with a light if you had paid X to hunt and were facing coming home with no trophy." I have faced exactly that. 25 years ago, in the same country. I did not shoot. It was legal. I was pressured to do so. I simply found it not to be sporting. I still have no lion and no leopard. I am fine with that. I would not be comfortable displaying a lion I shot at night under a light.

From: midwest
18-Aug-15
Well, I guess I'll never ask you to go coon hunting or flathead fishing.

From: bowriter
18-Aug-15
Now that is strange. It is perfectly acceptable to go predator hunting at night using a light. I have never heard anyone say it was unethical. Are lions and other big cats not predators? I sure thought they were.

From: Bou'bound
18-Aug-15
"I find it pitiful, vane and ego driven."

Who cares? This was not about what you choose to do or not or how you view what someone else did.

I respect your choice, but there is no need to bring it up here.

From: R. Hale
18-Aug-15
Bou,

The entire thread is about opinions. I expressed mine. You express what passes for yours. None of it really matters. Nor is it needed or necessary. Just opinions.

Bowriter,

Many seem to have forgotten that hunting of animals that kill and eat people was traditionally done in accordance with a set of ethics that considered more than an individual's ego.

People who track, gun bearers and locals who must continue to live in an area cannot say "I am sorry the lion ate your kid" and simply jump on a plane and fly home. Lions eat people. Wounded lions are quite inclined to do so as they have difficulty catching non human prey. Aside from my personal opinion expressed above, to shoot one at night with a bow is inconsiderate of human life that has no choice in the matter.

BTW, Night hunting of predators with artificial light is illegal in many states.

From: loprofile
18-Aug-15
""Dries softly whispered; "let me know when you're ready and I'll turn the light on -full blast"

I waited a few moments then whispered back: "I'm ready"

The light intensity grew and I could see every spot on that Tom. I was awe-struck by this scene. It was incredible to be that close to a leopard - Africa's top predator. I can honestly say it was like a dream. The illuminated leopard was the only thing I could see amidst total darkness. I could barely see Dries and nothing on my bow.

I slowly came to full draw."

"http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/LIVEHUNTS/Leopard2004/INDEX.CFM?DAY=9"

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