Warning/Review: FMJ Carbon Injexion
Equipment
After shooting Easton ACC 3-60's for the last 100 years (well, maybe not 100 but a long time), I decided to try some of the ultra skinny carbons. After a little research, and weighing advantages and disadvantages I went "all in" on the "Deep Six" program. I bought 3 dozen Easton FMJ Carbon Injexions along with several different models of Deep Six Broadheads. My only fear was the thin ferrule of the Deep Six heads, but thought I'd give them a whirl.
My goal was to kill a deer with the new setup prior to my Moose hunt in October. On Labor Day, I had an opportunity present itself while hunting the ground along a fenceline. The buck in the photo presented himself at 42 yards broadside.
I hit the buck absolutely perfect, he jumped, snowplowed and piled up within 50 yards. At the scene, I was suprised I couldn't find my arrow as surely it should've passed through. (460 grain arrow, 65 lb. Hoyt Nitrum Turbo shooting a NAP Deep Six Spitfire at 290 fps) After retracing the deers steps I found the arrow laying on top of the grass some 2o yards away.
After the gut job on the deer, the autopsy showed some interesting results. It appears as though the arrow caught a rib going in and immediately snapped the broadhead away from the arrow at the ferrule. The arrow continued through the deer and poked a round hole in the off side. The broadhead was found floating in lung matter with only one blade opened.
Now, I have a hard time calling this a failure, when the deer only went 50 yards but I was disappointed in the arrow none the less.
Cory, I believe the Spitfire has an aluminum ferrule. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that to be the case. I would not think in the deep six configuration with a lot of foot pounds of energy that it would end well having that skinny aluminum ferrule absorbing any punishment. I'd give the deep six slick tricks a test run on the FMJ's. Should be a great combination with the solid steel ferrule.
I knew VPA had some options for footing these skinny carbons, but wanted to give these arrows a shot without footing. After a call to skinny carbon arrow expert Mark Watkins, he said I needed to give Ray at VPA a call about "footing" my arrows. Ray has machined a couple different options of footers for some of these skinny carbons. I had to either switch arrows or come up with a solid option for these arrows prior to my moose hunt.
After visiting with Ray, we decided on the VPA CTR Punchline footers for my shafts, along with some Series 6 VPA 100 grain vented broadheads.
Ray had me the footers and heads within a couple days. The fit and finish on the footers is amazing. Attached is a photo of the new set up along with the original.
I realize part of the problem came with my first broadhead choice for this combination. Longer length broadheads w/aluminum ferrule are quite simply not a good choice for these skinny carbons given the thinness of the ferrule.
A shorter head (QAD EXODUS, Slick Trick or RAM Cat) may very well work perfectly in these shafts without the footer given the "physics" of the combination.
Sorry Brotsky, I was posting "the rest of the story" while you posted. I agree...Aluminum, long ferrule BAD COMBINATION for skinny arrows.
No problem Cory, an outsert would have been my other suggestion but you already have that covered perfectly. The set-up you have with the VPA is going to do a number on your moose. Good luck to you!
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if one decides to go the ultra skinny arrow route, one should definately consider "footing" the shaft AND pay close attention to the broadhead you choose. For the most part, I really like these arrows and hope they work out in the long run. If I had to do it all over again, I probably would've just stuck with the ACC 3-60's, but what fun would that be!
On a side note: Is there a better meal than fresh back strap and toast?
Good thread and I agree Cory. I'm running the standard FMJ with the D6 RPS insert (steel) and a Slick trick D6. I never liked the HIT insert so when the RPS became an option one could use on the regular FMJ I jumped at the chance to try them. So far has been a great combo.
Has been good so far on testing this summer but no animals yet. Makes sense though on the longer aluminum options being a weaker option.
RPS is not an option on the FMJ Carbon Injexion correct? (Just the regular FMJ?) One of the doz. Injexion's had RPS inserts included in the package, but they did not fit...I was confused for awhile...
Interesting thread. I switched to the Easton FMJ with the HIT system this year. Had no problems this summer while shooting but I've bent 2 different broadheads(Thunderhead 125 and Ulmer Edge 125) since 9/1--one was bent in my bow case while flying from Nashville to Minneapolis... not sure how that happened, then I bent an Ulmer edge this past weekend after I shot a doe(complete penetration and shot into dirt behind the deer). Would you all guess we are talking about the same issue mentioned above. Both of those ferrules are aluminum, but I've never had a bit of trouble until I used them with the FMJ's?????
I would guess the culprit to be the combination of alumimum ferrules with HIT more than anything. With regular FMJ's I would definately go with RPS inserts given the choice.
I could have sworn that the RPS was originally made for the injections but could be wrong? I will have to check with Easton as now I'm confused. Ha ha. Im pretty sure that any HIT shaft can be switched to RPS though. Axis etc.
RPS DS is made for the .204 shafts not the .166 shafts. I teased the DS ferrules extensively when they first came out. The ferrules are their weak point, especially on had angled hits. I broke many. If you insist on shooting them, go with a steel BH, not aluminum. I went back to standard shafts. Too much work to foot and strengthen the shafts that it was not worth it IMO. Penetration is really only significantly better in foam targets and other targets. In flesh and tissue, not nearly as much due to BH opening up hole and lubricious of blood and other tissue.
I think the regular Carbon Injexions Eyad, not the FMJ Injexions.
bigkev42...I concur, but I'm too "deep" now...
that is not a failure, but that is not a moose either. if it was you may have a failure
Very true Grant, but with the "footer" and a steel ferrule, I think these things are as strong as any set up.
That's it Cory! You are correct as it was the regular carbon injection shafts and the RPS now that you mention it. Thanks:)
Thats a huge failure! Glad you got the deer.
IMO, the HIT system actually offers a tighter fit between shank and arrow than any RPS insert I have ever seen, which allows less chance of breaking the shank.
It could be that the head had a defect to begin with but I have always thought the Deep 6 stuff held no benefit and was only weaker in design over all.
Looks like you found a fix for it.
I've killed 8 deer and one sheep with the deep six Slick Trick mags, no issues at all. Several of those shots encountered heavy bone and I have yet to even bend a ferrule.
I've shot 2 rage deep six hypodermics into deer and both broke at the ferrule, won't be using those again.
RPS inserts are designed for larger diameter arrows and will not fit the carbon or FMJ injexions. I actually prefer the deep six steel G HIT inserts that come with the arrows but its pretty obvious with my experience and others that the steel broadhead ferrules are recommended for big game with this arrow/insert combination.
weekender21...Correct Easton makes a RPS Deep Six Insert for FMJ, and Axis Arrows of .204 diameter.
Aren't the Rage Deep 6 Steel?
Well geez that sucks to spend that much money on arrows and then have to modify them to make them strong enough. I haven't had any issues at all and never broke an arrow in an animal with my old tried and true Beman ICS Hunters.
12yards, the issue isn't the arrow at all. It's the skinny broadhead ferrule, especially ones made from aluminum and not solid steel. I'm a 100% believer in FMJ's as being the toughest arrow on the market and I've seen some things over my years of shooting them that support that.
As evidenced above, this is definately a broadhead issue and not an arrow issue. With the right combination, I feel this can be a solid set up.
With that said, what do you guys feel are the strongest deep six steel heads? I know Slick Trick, VPA are solid options but what about the QAD Exodus and RAm Cats? Any others? I would like to find a solid mechanical option for D6 and may try the Ram Cats.
Exodus and Solids would be my pick for fixed blades. Up in the air on mechs. though.
Interesting thread.
I always thought the archery shaft and broadhead manufacturers only introduced the D6 as a form of planned obsolescence.
Cuz its a solution to a problem that really doesn't exist.
D6 has limitations, like the addition of an aftermarket footer to protect an inherently weak ferrule (in aluminum).
If they're pushing better penetration because of the micro diameter shaft but you still need the footer doesn't that make the whole thing moot.
I'm glad I bought three dozen acc prohunter before they stopped making them.
Kevin...I think you are spot on and "if I knew then, what I know now" I'd still be shooting ACC's but for the time being I have 3 dozen of these and will give them a shot. They do fly nice and I like the weight, so unless I have a problem with them setup with the "footer", I will continue to use them.
No doubt D6 was a "marketing" plan that may have looked good on paper, but in reality doesn't work as well as planned.
Regarding your ACC Prohunter, I do believe Easton is now making these for Cabelas under the name of ACComplice. I actually have some on order to try but all indications are that they are ACC Prohunters.
Because that's how I roll...;)
I tried Injexion Carbon arrows. I did not like the deep 6 system so now run outserts (fire nock.....whatever they call themselves) and conventionally threaded broadheads. This combo flies very well and shoot fine configured as such and is tough so far.
Kota, can you attach a link to the deep six RPS inserts that fit in the injexion shafts? The RPS inserts were designed to allow shooting deep six broadheads from standard diameter shafts i.e. Standard FMJ, Axis, etc.
I would only need one failure like that, before I deep sixed the deep six. Glad you were able to make a successful recovery.
This is very confusing, but I believe you are correct weekender21. The RPS insert fits the FMJ and Axis (.204 shaft) but not the Carbon Injexion (.166?) or FMJ Carbon Injexion. I will edit my post above.
I'm kind of in to this stuff and this is confusing. Can't imagine the normal archery consumer trying to keep up. Thanks for pointing out the inaccuracy weekender21.
Got it figured out yet Eyad? ;)
MJH...I'm not "fully" recovered as I ordered a bunch of new shafts to play around with today! BUT, for the moose hunt next week it is going to be FMJ Carbon Injexions with the VPA Punchcutter Footer with a 100 Grain Vented VPA Series 6 three blade. (as pictured above)
I'm not completely throwing in the towel on D6, but will be doing some more "testing" in the months to come.
So here's a "dumb" question: Why would you "convert" a FMJ or Axis to D6? In Hawkeye's case it was to get away from the HIT insert. Any other practical reason?
I guess it would be convenient if you shot multiple arrows, some deep six and others that were standard diameter. The steel deep six inserts are also advertised to be stronger.
I've been shooting FMJ Injexions since they came out and love them. My broadhead of choice has been Slick Trick D6.This year I'm shooting the D6 Ramcats and I find them to be even more accurate than my Slicks. Penetration on the target is incredible. I can't wait for Illinois season to start next week and try them out. I'm shooting out to 70 yds with them and they are dead on with my field points. With all the deer I've killed with these arrows I've never had a problem.
Ok, sorry, misunderstood. My bad.
A legitimate question one might ask is why shoot them in light of the above discussions on their issues?
After shooting the micro diameters (.166..specifically Carbon Injexion, FMJ Injexion and VAP with a 2" blazer type vane)) for up to the past 4 years, I'll offer up some of my thoughts: (remember, it is worth what you are paying for it:))
1: Accuracy (especially in hunting conditions). Without a doubt, IMHO, this is their #1 benefit. If you enjoy shooting long range (60 yards and beyond) whether it be for fun or you do it to make the 30 yard shot a chip shot. If I was hunting only whitetails and would never shoot past 50 yards, I would use the conventional sized arrows....they are good, strong, accurate and simpler. However,I love mountain hunts and/or hunts out west with boots on the ground.
2: Wind. This is strictly from my own personal testing and experiences...nothing scientific...the wind has a considerably less effect (like maybe 50% less) on the flight of micro diameter arrow (with a blazer sixed vane). From practice sessions in a strong crosswind of say 20 mph out to 40 yards, you might not make any adjustment for windage at all.
3: Penetration. I know the manufacturers tout it and they penetrate further into targets. But, I just don't buy it on live game, even though I have experienced excellent penetration on 20+ big game animals using micro diameter arrows. The arrow, whether a micro or standard diameter, is still following a much larger broadhead through a blood lubricated channel.
Hope you find this useful,
Mark
Now back to the heart and soul of kota Man's thread.
The narrowing (and thus weakening ) of the ferrule has always been a major concern in using the micro diameter shafts.
In my mind, the best (strongest and accurate) solution (and still be able to use these incredible accurate arrows) is to continue to use the standard sized ferrule broadheads. This means using some kind of outsert or insert/outsert on the end of the arrow. The VPA (50 gr) insert/outsert is rock solid and easy to install so you get a perfect spin with your broadhead. The Firenock outsert (32 gr) is also rock solid but a bit more challenging to install so you get a perfect spin. I wont say either of these two solutions wont ever bend, but it has been extremely rare...ie...missing a target and hitting a solid rock. The good news is you don't ruin an expensive arrow, you protect it and simply remove and replace the outsert or the I/O.
And of course, the other option is to choose your D6 broadhead and strengthen the end of the shaft with a VPA (12 gr) footer like Cory has done. Ive not tested this much but if I shot D6 broadheads, this is the way I would go.
Kota, we look forward to seeing your mug right next to your dead giant Shiras bull!!!
Mark
THanks Mark...How about your thoughts on my other question - Why would one change a FMJ or Axis into a D6 using an RPS insert vs. a HIT? Any other good reason other than the two listed above? (get away from HIT and because you already have invested in D6 broadheads)
Reason for my question: Through this I'm going to end up with three other shafts for "testing", along with my current FMJ Carbon Injexions: Regular FMJ's, Easton Axis all carbons and Easton ACC pro Hunters. For me, neither of the two reasons above are an issue as I have plenty of broadheads in both formats and I don't mind the HIT insert system. I've successfully used the HIT insert on game using FMJ's and Axis and have never had a single issue. I do have some RPS inserts I could "try" in either of these but really don't see the benefit to converting HIT to D6 RPS.
My answer is that I personally wouldn't convert an FMJ or an axis into a D6 using an RPS insert vs. a HIT. As mentioned, I know Hawkeye is doing so and is very happy with this combination. Lots of options!
The " weakest link" in this whole arrow equation is where the ferrule meets the broadhead. I want this areas as strong and as beefy as possible. Preferably, a steel ferrule but if not 7075 T6 aluminum which is stronger than some types of steel.
However, I know several guys that are shooting steel ferruled D6 broadheads on whitetail sized game and are having great results. They like the accuracy of the micro diameter sized arrows.....which for me brings this conversation around full circle:)
Mark
My thoughts exactly. Was hoping Eyad chimes back in here with his thoughts. I want the "skinny" arrows to work. And like you said, a guy is asking for trouble using an aluminum ferrule with this set up. (Live and learn)
I still want to try the Ram Cats with this set up. Spring bear may be a great opportunity to try it.
Kota; This is nothing new with these skinny "systems".
I have a pile of the old Beman skinny shafts in 60-80 and 70-90 from the 1980's and that was always the knock on them- weak and poor tolerance inserts you had to tweak to get perfect alignment.
I didn't read the whole thread but there are beefier outserts on the market for these skinny shafts that a guy would really want to use if going with this system.
Kota, to answer and earlier question about the Rage Hypodermic deep six broadheads. They are advertised as having stainless steel blades with no mention of the ferrule material. From my experience I'd have to say they are definitely not steel.
I've thought about trying aftermarket outserts but after using them with other brand arrows I really prefer the steel inserts that come with the injexions. I've shot a few of my slick trick ferrules into targets a few hundred times and used several single heads on multiple deer after changing the blades. None have ever bent and all spin true even after the abuse of missing targets, hitting bone, etc.
From my experience the only problem with the micro diameter injexion and FMJ deep six shafts are the weaker ferrule materials on the broadheads. I'm not aware of any steel ferrule mechanical deep six braodheads at the moment and will be sticking with the slick tricks for big game. I wouldn't hesitate to try other steel ferrule deep six broadheads.
I have been using the Carbon injections this season. I built a dozen up using VPA outserts (only reason is I wanted to use my regular broadheads) and a dozen with the deep 6 HIT inserts (2 deep 6 HIT inserts in the front...with the purpose of achieving the same weight as the outsert.) All arrows weigh the same and I shoot them together.
I've had the outserts bend and develope a slight wobble with broadheads over time of shooting the arrows. The benefit is I can use regular heads. Downside to me is the extra price that is associated with these aftermarket outserts.
I've had only one of the Deep six insert arrows break when my arrow hit steel in a target. But what arrow wouldn't.
I like the sleek design of the deep 6 HIT insert and they are holding up well. The only downside to me is broadhead availabity. They always spin true. I think the HIT insert is awesome for broadhead spinning.
I've shot an antelope and an elk this year. The deep 6 arrows held up just fine!
I've used axis arrows with hit inserts for years. They hold up fine and are tough. I always liked the HIT inserts in the axis. I will continue to shoot the carbon injections as they fly great and are great arrows. I am gonna go strictly deep 6 inserts from this day forward.
I think the broadhead breaking has to do more with the broadhead itself and not the deep 6 insert. That's my opinion thou. I might be the minority thou but I like HIT inserts and the injections are great arrows! Very accurate!!
Ermine, you're not alone with that opinion. What broadheads did you use on the animals you've taken this year?
I am using wac em broadheads in the arrows that have the outserts.
And deep 6 ramcats for the deep 6 arrows.
I heard that wac em might be releasing a deep 6 next year so I'm excited about that.
weekender21...I believe the Ramcat Mechanical is advertised as a solid stainless steel ferrule.
Thanks Kota, I didn't even know they made a mechanical. I'll have to look into that as an option. I prefer fixed blade but usually have a mechanical head in the quiver for windy spot and stalk days.
Ramcat ferrules are stainless steel and they are not a mechanical broadhead. The blades are held in by left handed screws. If not tight the blades move. The blades are sharp on the backside also. They are very tough broadheads.
The ramcats are considered a "fixed blade" not a mechanical even thou the blades can move a little bit.
That's what I thought, didn't know if they might have released a new mechanical.
Wow...I always just assumed that was a mechanical head. Back to square one on the mechanical side of this set up...
Yea the blades tighten with a screw but loosen up for ease of pulling out of a target.
They fly well and cut a big hole.
I really like the flight of wac ems thou. Probably my favorite head for long range accuracy.
Yeah wacems and slick trick standards are hard to beat for fixed blade accuracy. I'd love to see slick trick make deep six 1" standard.
Good point Bighurt...Until someone comes up with a "substantial" steel ferrule on a D6 mechanical, I won't use mechs with this setup again.
I really like the looks of the QAD Exodus with this set up. Short, steel ferrule where the blades actually sweep back over the shaft. I wouldn't think a short, stoudt broadhead would be much of a problem even without footers, as evidenced by the Slick Trick crowd that uses this system with great success.
Kota, I think you just hit on one of the KEYS here is ferrule length (the shorter the better) which in turn reduces unwanted leverage.
What mechs in D6 are being used successfully out there that are all steel?
Anyone shoot all steel Gravediggers (a hybrid) in D6?
Mark
I had good success using Solid broadheads on my FMJ D6 arrows. Solid broadheads from the Solid broadheads Co.
Mark...My fear with a Gravedigger in this set up is the over all length of that head and leverage you speak of. WAY LONG. I don't think I'd even shoot a long fixed blade head like the NAP Big Nasty in this combination.
I don't know that there is a good/solid mechanical D6 being produced. By good, I mean short in length and steel in construction.
loop...Solid heads appear to be a great option in D6, but I haven't had a chance to try them.
"The narrowing (and thus weakening ) of the ferrule has always been a major concern in using the micro diameter shafts."
"I think the broadhead breaking has to do more with the broadhead itself and not the deep 6 insert."
ISorry for getting away from this thread as have been planting and prepping for whitetails and trying to keep up with the kiddos and work.
I spent some time talking to Tim Strickland today regarding both points I attached above. I have been shooting the Helix D6 of late and am still impressed how accurate it is. In the past he has ALSO mentioned his concern with the thinner and weaker ferrules that D6 broadheads must have to work. No matter the brand and his included.
There is NO DOUBT after talking to him that he prefers the standard ferrules on the standard Helix and broadheads in general. They were created because the manufacturers dictated the need, otherwise he would have stayed with standard it seemed.
They have beefed up the ferrule on the D6 125 to 7075 aluminum but still it is a weak point he admits. Guy in elk camp killed an elk and bear with the D6 125 helix this past week he said with no problems though. Its that 1/20 that hurts when it happens and you ask yourself...why did I do that? At least thats the way I feel when I use equipment that has shortcomings taht while rare, can happen.
I have some HIT FMJ I'll be trying with the regular Helix this week and then decide which way Ill lean. If you guys get a chance try that Helix. There has to be something to the single bevel flight characteristics as it definitely shot better than my tricks at 40 yards and my bow is pretty tuned. Mean looking little head too.
Wouldn't it be boring if we were tuned all the time, found the perfect head, boots, clothing or camo??????????????
Ha ha ha ha ;)
Hawkeye, good candid info/feedback from an industry veteran!
Kota, but those gravediggers fly absolutely like darts out to 90 yards (in practice)! 2 3/4" of cutting surface.... :)
Mark
Mark...How do they fly sideways after contact? :0 That cutting surface doesn't do much good when it has become a "loose projectile" without a shaft attached... Not to mention penetration of the shaft is inherently bad after first contact with a head that long (or in my case, without the head attached). ;)
Hawkeye...I'd play ALOT more golf if someone told me I couldn't buy anymore gear.
I think the 100 grain Ulmer deep six heads were steel. No longer made though...
I do believe that the Rage Hypodermic in the d6 configuration is steel, I have a set of them but have not shot them into anything yet. I converted some of my Victory VAP's over to the Deep six inserts just to try them out and am absolutely amazed with there performance, have been shooting the slick trick with them and getting great performance.
Coues...I too thought I read somewhere that the D6 Rage were steel, but based on weekender21's results, I don't know how they could be steel.
The real test for this setup (FMJ Carbon Injexions with VPA Footers and VPA Vented 3 blade) will hopefully come later this week on my Shiras Moose hunt.
Kota-man: thank you for taking the time to experiment with new gear (FMJ arrows, backpacks, etc). Most of all thanks for letting the rest of us know your opinion and starting an intelligent discussion.
We all learn from your experiences.
The Ulmer D6 is all steel. The Rage Hypo page says they are steel as well. D6 heads have about 67% of the cross sectional area versus regular screw in adaptors based on the various heads I measured, and some are as small as 56% of the area in a thinned shank (measured 1/8" or 0.12" diameter on one of the broadheads I have). Obviously these D6 shanks are half or two-thirds as strong if made of the same materials as the regular shank.......which is a lot to give up. I'll stick with outserts and regular shanks so as not to run the failure risk that D6 diameters could present.
elkstabber...Thanks for the kind words. I love trying new gear.
Kurt...Great information. Those numbers are suprising to say the least. (almost shocking actually)
Good luck on your moose hunt. I can't imagine any issues with that set-up.
I tried to locate the materiel of the deep six hypodermic but can only find the blade materiel. One would think they would claim an all steel ferrule too if that was the case. Either way, after two complete ferrule failures on very small (100lb dressed) deer with no significant bone contact, I will not be using them again. I've put a few deep six Slick Tricks into heavy bone and one spine and have yet to put even a slight bend in one. At this point I think some manufacturers have figured the deep six construction out and others have not.
Weekender21, Google Rage Hypodermic and look at the Rage webpage. Second bullet point says one piece aerodynamic STEEL ferrule. I don't have any so don't know from personal experience.
Guys, steel is magnetic. Aluminum is not magnetic. Whether the Rage Hyopdermics are steel or not should be easy to figure out for whomever has a BH and a magnet.
Kurt, you are correct. I wonder why they are so brittle compared to others (based solely on my experience)? Obviously different types of steel and I'm certainly no expert. Maybe a bad batch? I was actually planning on purchasing new blades for the two I used on turkeys this spring before my recent experience with the deer.
Well, it worked! Shout out to Mark Watkins (skinny carbon extraordinare) and Ray at VPA for helping me sort out a solution for my moose hunt.
The arrow passed lengthwise through the bull and came out unscathed. A little touch up on the VPA 100 grain head and this one can go right back in the quiver. No broken or bent ferrule and no arrow damage.
The hit was quartering to, right in the pocket behind the shoulder. The arrow exited just ahead of the right hip. Here's where I found the arrow. Moose went approximately 50 yards.
Very nice, congrats! TODDY
Thanks for this info Cory.
John (offhntn) - How have your's held up? I know you've taken at least two animals with the same set up as mine...
Cory,
And you just had to test the rig to the max by running that arrow length wise through a lot of heavy pumping equipment!
That 12 grain footer provides a ton of support for the D6 heads.
Great feedback...thanks for posting up a post mortem.
Mark
A "ton of support" I guess. That arrow spins like I just took it out of the package! And the 100 gr. VPA looks as good as new as well.
A concern I have with the ultra small diameter shafts is fletching. It seems that it would be very difficult to get much helical on them without putting serious strain on the glue bond as the vanes have to wrap around the shaft considerably more than with larger diameter shafts. The regular FMJ seems to be about the limit for fletching with the AZ EZfletch mini and Blazer vanes. Going smaller than the standard FMJ seems to add additional problems with only a very minor drag advantage.
Ziek...I have used an AZ Ezfletch Mini on mine and the helical does not seem to be an issue at all.
I guess that I am getting old. I tried the D6 versions without the so-called footing and was not impressed. In fact, I experienced b/h breakage which I expected - and I tried three different B/H versions. The old ACC prohunters as well as the ACC's and FMJ's fly just as well and penetrate just as good as the D6 versions. I can't believe that when you add the so-called footing, it does not detrimentally affect penetration. Maybe I am wrong, but I doubt it. I have spoken to a couple of well known B/H manufacturers who told me that they have no plans of offering a D6 version. Call me old, but I prefer an arrow that can accept about any B/H without having to fool around with footing and without worrying about B/H breakage. To each his own I guess, but I don't believe that I am the only one with this view....
I'm pretty much there as well Tom, but I'm in "too deep". I still have a dozen of the ACC Pro Hunter's and a dozen Axis arrows that I can play around with. I was more interested in making these arrows work for my moose hunt. Mission accomplished and now I may move on. I wish I would've just stuck with my old trustee ACC 3-60's, but I'm a "tinkerer" and always looking for a "better" way. I'm not covinced D6 is better by any way with the exception of long range flight characteristics.
I also shoot ACC 360's and have since they first came out back in the 90's.
Hard to figure why Easton developed the Deep Six system. Even harder to figure is why some broadhead companies follow suit by reducing their ferrules and threads to accomodate the Deep Six shaft.
And why doesn't Easton make a half-out insert for the Deep Six shaft that would accomodate a standard 8-32 thread? They did that with the original ACC-3-39's and it worked quite well.
Also, I don't see how it helps strengthen the size 6 ferrule and threads to foot the arrow shaft.
