Mathews Inc.
Arrow Change?
Mountain Goat
Contributors to this thread:
huntmaster 01-Oct-15
brettpsu 01-Oct-15
Toby 01-Oct-15
SDHNTR(home) 01-Oct-15
HDE 01-Oct-15
Bowboy 01-Oct-15
Ziek 01-Oct-15
huntmaster 01-Oct-15
Blacktail Bob 02-Oct-15
Trophy8 02-Oct-15
Ermine 03-Oct-15
huntmaster 15-Oct-15
Russell 16-Oct-15
huntmaster 16-Oct-15
Russell 16-Oct-15
Tim Floyd @Hm 17-Oct-15
Hawkeye 17-Oct-15
huntmaster 07-Jun-16
Cajunarcher 07-Jun-16
huntmaster 07-Jun-16
Brotsky 07-Jun-16
BoggsBowhunts 08-Jun-16
Pat Lefemine 08-Jun-16
huntmaster 08-Jun-16
Brotsky 08-Jun-16
huntmaster 08-Jun-16
sethosu 10-Jun-16
From: huntmaster
01-Oct-15
Now that I'm thru elk season, I'm looking towards next years hunt which is Mt Goat.

I have been shooting CX Pile Drivers tipped with Slick Trick Mags the last several years with good results and wondered if maybe I should switch it up a bit and go to a flatter shooting arrow.

Would you guys suggest a slightly lighter/flatter shooting arrow or stay with my 500+ grain setup?

I don't want to get super light, but I can see the advantages of a skinny fast arrow setup in Mt Goat conditions where longer shots are move likely.

I'd like to make the change soon if I'm going to do it and then have the entire year to practice with that setup.

Thoughts?

From: brettpsu
01-Oct-15
Very windy on top of the mountains. I would stick with what you have. Plus goats are tough buggers with some serious front shoulders.

"I don't want to get super light, but I can see the advantages of a skinny fast arrow setup in Mt Goat conditions where longer shots are move likely."

I bet the average shot on elk is a farther distance than on goats.

From: Toby
01-Oct-15
stay with your current set up

From: SDHNTR(home)
01-Oct-15
Dont change.

From: HDE
01-Oct-15
The only thing to consider changing is thinking about getting past the thick, more dense fur of a goat vs. a Sept elk.

From: Bowboy
01-Oct-15
Like stated don't change. I've taken two goats with 415 grain FMJs and had complete pass thrus on both. Don't over think it!

From: Ziek
01-Oct-15
"...where longer shots are move likely."

Where do these ideas come from? Shots are only as far as you're willing to take. I shot my goat at about 30 yds. and my wife shot hers at 24.

From: huntmaster
01-Oct-15
Well I guess that settles it, I'll order another dozen Pile drivers and build them to match what I already have.

I do want to practice shooting uphill and downhill more than I ever have.

Thanks for the help!

02-Oct-15
I agree, you should be able to get closer to Mtn goats than elk.

From: Trophy8
02-Oct-15
Personally I would'nt change...You already know how your bow/arrow combination shoots. Having confidence in your set up is more important.

From: Ermine
03-Oct-15
Don't change. Heavier arrows are better than light.

From: huntmaster
15-Oct-15
OK, I'm convinced about keeping the arrow weight the same, but what about switching to the Pile Driver PTX's? They are the skinny version of the same shaft I'm shooting and come with an outsert...

It looks like they would finish in the 500 gr range which is similar to where I'm at now, but they should be better in a cross wind.

From: Russell
16-Oct-15

Russell's Link
After a NM elk hunt a couple years ago and experiencing 18-24" of wind drift on 40+ yard stump shots, I started asking questions how to reduce this drift.

First stop was asking for advice here on Bowsite.

One member recommended I research an article that Randy Ulmer wrote back a few years ago specifically on that subject.

"If reduced wind drift is your goal, try to achieve a total arrow weight that is roughly six grains per pound of draw weight (I shoot a 438-grain arrow at 70 pounds)." copied from the article

I changed arrows and now shoot Black Eagle X-Impact 250's with 125 g points with three Blazer vanes.

The only drawback with shooting arrows with outserts is bag targets are no longer your friend. Once this kind of target to thoroughly broke-in, I guess they're ok. Shot a new one six times and it was a battle to remove each one.

I use the same arrow on everything now. Chipmunks to moose.

From: huntmaster
16-Oct-15
Russell, I read that article last night based on your recommendation in our PM exchange. Sounds like changing to the PTX or similar would be a solid move.

Has anyone used the outserts that comes with the PTX's?

've heard concerns about the outserts causing problems by snapping the shaft. And then other guys are footing it with an aluminum shaft to strengthen it. Footing it sounds like more work than the pay off, but I don't have any experience with that yet.

From: Russell
16-Oct-15
If you're going to build arrows for long distance shooting, or want the best alignment of a broadhead, then I suggest purchasing a RAM Spine Tester.

During building of an arrow, I mark the stiffest side and glue the cock vane there.

The broadhead tool for best alignment is my favorite feature of the tool.

I had a couple dozen arrows built by a well-known builder and the broadheads were horribly wobbly. After that, I bought the RAM and never looked back.

During some recent stump shooting in a snowstorm and gusts close to 40 mph, my 30 yard shots drifted a few inches, using field points. Mech BH would be worse.

Good luck with your quest.

17-Oct-15
Big mature goats are thick tough animals ... Stay with the heavier setup in my opion ... My shot was 17 yds and had no trouble getting close to several ones that I passed up ...

From: Hawkeye
17-Oct-15
Every time I've gone lighter I've regretted it. I'd stick to what you have and have peace of mind knowing that if your forward or back your in better shape than if your too light. Plus, your rangefinder will be your best friend and you'll have time to range him.

They are tough buggers.

From: huntmaster
07-Jun-16
Well, I made the move to the PTX's and built up a half dozen just like I have several dozen with the standard pile drivers. After chasing down different dia field points, I finally was able to shoot them last night. At first, I thought they were going to be the ticket. I shot some really good groups at 35 & 45 after a long time off from shooting.

Then I decided to move back to my 65 yard target, distance wasn't the problem, but my layered carpet target had leaned slightly towards my shooting position and apparently the impact angle was way to much. As I shot 5 arrows into the target, all 5 broke the base of the arrow at the outsert. They split the last 1" of the shaft and the inserts fell out on some of the arrows upon retrieval.

I know there was additional torque on the head from the angle, but it certainly won't be any different than a high downward angle on a goat. And it was also on a field point, the angle would get worse with a longer broadhead.

I have read where guys have been "footing" the base with 1-2" of aluminum arrows for additional strength. I had bought a few alum arrows for that purpose, but never believed that the arrows wouldn't hold up to target shooting.

So now I'm in a dilemma, I wanted to move to the skinnier shafts to help with wind drift, but I certainly don't have much faith in them right now. I haven't had one complaint in the 5 years I've shot the standard piledrivers, but the PTX don't appear to be in the same class.

So I think I might just have to go back to the standards until I run out and then look at some of the other small dia options out there.

From: Cajunarcher
07-Jun-16
Scott stick with a heavier arrow and just do your thing man. U know what it takes to get the job done! Like the guys say don't overthink it and have fun on that mountain cause it's the best place on earth up there and Lloyd will get u on a good shot opportunity . Tons of goats there and I'm ready to see hear your story!

From: huntmaster
07-Jun-16
I hear you Lee, staying with the heavier arrow is why the PTX's intrigued me. They weighed basically the same and I got a better crosswind component...

I have to find something to improve or I'll go nuts over the next 3 months! Lol!

From: Brotsky
07-Jun-16
Hm, are you set on using the piledrivers? I shoot here all year long in the wind, it never seems to stop blowing out here on the prairie. I've had great luck with standard 5mm Easton FMJ's and blazer vanes in the wind running about 465 gr arrow weight at 70 pounds. They fly great and are tough as nails. Even in 30 mph wind I don't see much wind drift at 40-50 yards.

08-Jun-16
I'm going on a Goat hunt this year as well, and I was taking a real close look at the Black Eagle Rampages. The Gold Tip calculator is saying my build will end up being 467.8 grains and 14.29% FOC. This thread confirmed that the heavy arrow will work out well for goats, thanks guys.

From: Pat Lefemine
08-Jun-16
I've pretty much standardized on the CX Piledrivers for everything but you have to use whatever gives you the most confidence. IMO you are overthinking this a little. But that's half the fun. Good luck and be sure to report back on your hunt!

From: huntmaster
08-Jun-16
Brotsky, I'm not really set on any particular arrow, I was just looking to stay in the 450+ weight range and get a skinny shaft to help in the wind.

I might build the other half dozen and foot them to see how they perform that way.

From: Brotsky
08-Jun-16
Good luck whichever way you decide to go HM. Footing those skinny shafts is never a bad choice! I think you'll find after footing them that you'll have found your arrow. It's a great world we live in now that we have so many awesome choices in equipment! Most importantly take lots of pictures on your hunt and post them here for us to share it with you!

From: huntmaster
08-Jun-16
Well CX just sent me a RA for the dozen PTX and will replace them with the piledriver hunter's. So good on CX for that and now I just need to get after it.

I'll definitely take pics and post the story upon return. Thanks for the thoughts guys!

From: sethosu
10-Jun-16
Stick with what you have. I arrowed a mature hilly in CO last year and it was smaller than a mature white tail doe from Kansas.

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