Is an anchor point even neccessary?
Equipment
SO I was shooting today and started to think, usually a dangerous thing! With a a solid walled bow, sights, peep and a release is it really all that important to maintain an anchor point? So I tried it with the release all over in regards to my anchor point, holding the release way to the side (6") tipping my head way back that the release was 6" in front of my face, etc.
It didn't matter, the arrow still went where the pin was! Now for the most precise target shooting it might be different but for hunting within 40yds I think anchor points are over rated. But if you don't draw back to the stops or you use a bow that doesn't have a solid wall I could see how it wouldn't work.
How did you know where the pin was if you weren't anchored? No offense but, the statement about anchor not being important has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. A consistent anchor is EVERYTHING. For precision, it is everything. hitting the block target is no accomplishment. Hitting the intended spot on the block target is. And, only possible consistently if you anchor the same way EVERY TIME. God Bless
With the speed these bows shoot now a days under 30 yards and you really have to screw the pooch to be way off. Go out to 70/80 and all the sudden that anchor point becomes everything! Now put yourself in low light conditions which we all know is when a majority of mature animals are harvested and again when u can barely see through your peep u better make damn sure you're locked into your anchor.
Try with broadheads and let us know how that works! Take video please, I'm interested to see exactly how you are shooting!
With a peep and front sight, an anchor helps steady the string hand but isn't necessary for alignment. Do you have an anchor point on your face when you shoot a pistol? Nope. Line the sights up and squeeze the trigger.
An anchor is more important when shooting without a peep sight or other 'rear sight'.
I know an anchor is very important to me I have not shot with a peep sight in over 50 yrs.
It depends.Do your align the bracket with your peep and then shoot the appropriate pin or do you move each pin to the middle of the peep via changing your nocking point(only vertically) Both work.....
How do you see through the peep when you hold your release 6" off to the side?
IMHO thinking that a proper anchor doesn't matter is fool's gold.
Zinger is correct. Where the peep and sight line up, that is where the bow will shoot. An anchor point will help steady the bow both before and during the shot, but a consistent anchor point on the face is no more necessary than it is for a crossbow.
Why would you not want to use anchor pt. If this helps steady you . Seem easier to me to use anchor pts.
not unless you want to hit what you shoot at
I think alot of guys don't use anchor pt. Because alot have bows that are to long draw lenth ! Guys think they are bigger than they are ! If you have propper Draw length and ues your anchor pt.s you will be a better shot . Than if you don't !
If that's true Purdue then how is it possible when he holds the release 6" from his face? Try shooting on the side of a hill and see what happens.
Purdue you are wrong. When you line a peep and a pin up on a SHOOTING machine it hits where the peep and pin line up. When you put a shooter behind it, changing anchor point causes inaccuracy.
Changing your anchor point changes how the arrow reacts when leaving the string. Pulling your anchor tight into your face will will cause left/right misses. Also....it is imperative that you anchor FIRST and then look through your peep. If one doesn't then one will be anchoring higher on the face when shooting downhill or lower on the face when shooting uphill. This leads to inconsistent facial pressure which will cause the arrow to fly inconsistently from shot to shot.
If one only wants pie plate accuracy at 20 yards then just let your anchor ride wherever it pleases.
I was shooting broadheads when doing this at 20 and 30yds. Accuracy wasn't any different than when I was anchoring in my normal spot. I like how Jeff Durnell relates it to shooting a pistol with no anchor point. As long as the front and rear sight are lined up it should hit where the pin is provided your grip is the same and you're not torueing the bow.
WVMluntaineer, because I was still looking through the peep and looking at the pin, granted one needed to concentrate more when the peep is that far away form the eye.
Bow freak, I held the release 6" to the right (I'm right handed) and then tipped my head so my eye was looking through the peep, my head was almost tipped 90 degrees to look through it.
For those saying it won't work without a peep no kidding! I said with a peep, release, etc. and if you're pulling into the wall. If you'r shooting fingers, have to long of draw, don't draw back to the wall or don't use a peep it wont work.
I guess I'm just kind of sick of guys trying to make it sound like shooting a bow is rocket science, it aint that tough . Go try it next time your shooting. I'll try to get a video but no promises.
Also BS about having to bend at the waist when shooting from a treestand. Where the peep and pin line up at and during the shot is where the arrow will hit.
You are wrong again. While it is hard to do, not bending at the waist and shooting downhill will cause the front shoulder to roll up and cause your "draw to lengthen." In reality it just moves your anchor point back. Another reason why a proper anchor is so important.
Sometimes I wonder if you even own a bow Purdue.
Purdue, agreed. I think some people try to make shooting a bow a lot harder than it really is. And if you're not using a peep you're making it harder than necessary. Without a peep there's no rear sight. Take the rear sight off your pistol or rifle and see how accurate you are? Shotguns were once required around here for deer hunting. People started out with their 30" bird barrels and a bead on the front. When people started using slug barrels with rear sights on them the ones using their bird barrels claimed they were as accurate with their bird barrels as they were with slug barrels - BS! If you're not using a rear sight you might be able to shoot accurate enough to hunt with but you're not nearly as accurate as you could be.
I uploaded a video and it's being approved right now.
Bowfreak no I believe your'e wrong again! If you're drawing back to the stops of the wall it doesn't matter. If you're not drawing all the way back into the wall then everything matters in regards to form. Just one of the reasons I can't understand why anyone would buy a compound bow that doesn't have a rock solid wall.
I would saw the stock off on the shotgun. No need to leave a stock on a shotgun as you can hold it in one hand and just line up the front and rear sights. It will hit exactly where you aim it.
An anchor point just gives you the consistency of looking at the same spot each time. A peep sight in itself is an anchor point...
Bowfreak, I know your'e saying that in jest but what you say about sawing off the stock is correct. AS long as the sights are lines up it will hit where they are lined up. Odds are you wont be able to hold it as steady thought.
Shooting a bow like I describe is also dependent on not torquing the grip also. Another reason not to buy a bow with a 2x4 for a grip.
The only thing I got from this conversation is that I will be just as poor of a shot with my bow as I am with my pistol if I don't have a consistent anchor point.
It's pretty simple logic. Obviously this style of shooting would much sooner lead to torquing the grip or not consistently lining the peep with your sight, but provided you can do these things consistently it would be every bit as accurate. With a release
Once again we are muddying the waters, what might work time after time on a target range where the weather is nice and the footing is secure and level, try it in hunting conditions, wind, steep hill side, standing on cobble etc etc.. Stability and consistent REPEATABLE form is where it's at!
When I had to go to eye glasses, Trifocals at that, I had to change, actually remove my anchor point from my face/jaw line otherwise the frame of the eye glasses were blocking the view of my pins.I tried everything to get around it including change eye glasses to ones without frames but the edge of the glasses still hindered the view. so frustrating.
Currently I don't have an anchor point on my face anymore which was a horrible experience for me to adjust to. It was extremely uncomfortable. I had to learn to turn my head in slightly which removed my anchor point at my jaw line. But to Zingers point fully drawn into the wall and the peep sight lined up with the pin I shoot as good or better now as I ever have out to 80 yards. As someone else pointed out, your peep sight is or can be an anchor point.
Totally disagree about it does not matter where you anchor, it is very important. Just draw to your normal anchor point and line everything up, now just move your anchor to say an inch lower but don't change the angle of your head or anything. I promise you will not hit in the same spot as your normal shot sequence. Shawn
Gotta have a consistent anchor point if you don't shoot sights with peep. Barebow you know !
deerman406, I don't think Zinger is saying there isn't a place you go to every time. You obviously cant drop or raise your release an inch as you say without the peep sight window going away.
Line up the peep with your pins the same every time with the bow extended to the wall you will hit what your aiming at without having to use a traditional anchor point on your face/ear/jaw. the peep Site sets the consistent anchor point I think is what Zinger is getting at.
IaHawkeye +1
Anchor is a matter of form from top to bottom, not sight alignment.
You set your peep TO the anchor. Close your eyes, hit your anchor and then open them. Peep should be right there and pin guard centered. If not is should be adjusted.
Too many people rely on pro shops setting up their bow the way the shop sets up everybodys bow, adjusting their form to the bow instead of the other way around. Peep height, draw length, etc. It's not hard to see why some struggle with form, tuning and such when the bow itself does not fit.
Anchor can and does change a tiny amount, but the amount is relatively insignificant. If you shoot a sliding sight or center the pin in the peep rather than the frame your anchor will change a tiny bit depending on the range/pin height. But such a small amount it's pretty much unnoticeable.
I anchor with my index finger knuckle into the back of my jaw under my ear. And like most spots it's not exactly precision to the thousandth inch. But I can repeat it in my sleep.
I understand what many of you are saying and that is that the bow will shoot wherever you point it.....the problem is it takes a person behind the bow to shoot an arrow. No matter how you parse it, we NEGATIVELY influence a bow....all of us. Granted, I am pretty sure my negative effect on my bow is considerably more than Levi Morgan's. None of us are shooting machines.
I also agree that bows are so much better now that little things like this mean less than they once did. When we anchor deep into our face it will cause arrow flight that is different than when we don't have face contact at all. This is fact. Read some of the writings from John Dudley or James Park. Both talk about face contact and perfect arrow flight.
Yes....a guy could shoot a bow with a floating anchor and with practice they could shoot very well but it is not really optimal. Rick Barry shot nearly 90% for his NBA career from the free throw line. His form, granny style, worked for him but it is not the free throw form that any coach would teach now.
Floating anchor=Bad idea That is if you want consistent accuracy
To the pistol analogy...this is the reason in almost everyones hands a rifle is more accurate than a pistol- its anchored and the pistol isn't.
HDE pretty much hit it, as did TD.
A peep is a form of an anchor. The more anchors you have, the more likely you will be repeatable (which is what accuracy is, hitting repeatedly). This is because a small margin of error in one anchor may be caught in another and corrected.
To further Beendare's analogy of pistol vs. rifle. If you shoot a rifle without a repeatable cheek weld on the stock, your accuracy will suffer. Will it be enough that you miss? Depends on the level of accuracy you want.
I don't doubt that with enough practice, one can shoot pretty accurately without an anchor point. I'd bet dollars to donuts though, that they would shoot BETTER with an anchor point than without.
YMMV.
How do you know you are at full draw without some reference point? A solid backwall is not enough, even the best of them. I guess like the others my question is WHY?
For an even moderately experienced archer, once at full draw, why would you put your hand/release anywhere else? Can't move it backward, can't move it toward your face any further. Why move it away, up or down? If so, you cannot see through the peep? Where you going to go with it? Why?
How do you draw your bow without an anchor point?
This thread should have been posted during March. When everybody's mind is wandering. Damn guys, it's hunting season ! :)
Your going to induce torque and other factors on the string by varying the anchor point, or floating it. That alone is enough to change the point of impact. Whether or not your good enough to discern "accuracy" through the variables is another matter.
I get what some say about shooting machines, but our physiology induces variables that machines don't, therefore the analogy is bunk.
Really Zinger, after reading your opening post, why even shoot a bow at all? Get a crossbow and forget about it.
JLS, its not just the cheek weld on a rifle in my analogy...the rifle is also locked into your shoulder,multiple points of contact..or "anchors"
Maybe the OP or anyone questioning this should try this simple accuracy test; shooting your shotgun...or high power rifle..... with the buttstock floating just an inch off of your shoulder. Good lesson in the difference between floating and anchor....and you WILL remember it. grin
You guys are making this archery stuff WAY to difficult! I'm not suggesting that one doesn't anchor the same spot all the time while shooting at the range but next time you're shooting try shooting without an anchor point and just lining up the peep and front sight - you'll be amazed at how accurate you are. Most likely not as accurate as normal but plenty good enough for 20-30 hunting which might come in real handy if the animal is in a odd place.
I tireid to post a video this morning and they said they were reviewing it - whatever that means.
Before blasting this idea go try it at the range.
And go try my test....grin
How often do people draw back and shoot a 330 class bull elk for their first time at 26.4 yards that is screaming and blowing snot everywhere that don't hit their "anchor" and still manage to pull off a double lung hit?
A lot I would venture to guess. At the same time, a lot completely miss. So, it may just be a toss up in reality.
"JLS, its not just the cheek weld on a rifle in my analogy...the rifle is also locked into your shoulder,multiple points of contact..or "anchors"
Right.
Which is why I said to further your analogy, meaning to build on it :^).
The cheek weld is nothing more than another anchor.
Why not just make it a repeatable habit to do things the same, every time? What is to be gained by "not anchoring"?
GotBow I know what he is trying to say but it does not make sense. There is no way to be consistent without a consistent anchor. The arrow may go close when you line everything up but no way can one be as accurate doing it that way. No way!! The OP said bowhunting distances, well I don't target shoot much so I want to be as accurate as possible. The rifle analogy is dead on, check weld, hand placement it is all about the "anchor and being consistent. Shawn
Not really. I'm a 29" draw length and tune/shoot my wife's 23.5" bow. It's not easy but repeatable out to 30 yards for tuning purposes. I guess I'm technically using an anchor point but it's certainly modified!
For maximum accuracy, yes, you're going to shoot your best with a repeatable anchor point.
So who has tried this yet?
The rifle anology is somewhat correct but some of us can shoot a pistol very accurate also. I can shoot a pistol off hand more accurate than I can shoot my bow (and not trying to sound arrogant but I'm pretty good with the bow also) so accuracy can be had without anchoring the same spot on your face every time. I would not do this day in and day out but if need be I would have no problem doing it to get a shot at a deer. Just like I shoot my rifles right handed but I know that I can shoot them left handed if I need to do so to shoot an animal at an odd angle.
Try it before saying it wont work! But again I can only see it working with a bow pulled tight against the wall and using a peep and release.
You nailed it Spike...'some guys are happy with 20 yd pie plate accuracy'...true, they don't need no stinking anchor....unless its for their boat.
I've done it before. It can be done, but it produces inconsistent shots; especially with different angles and fatigue, for instance, when having to hold your draw for a while on an animal that's not presented the shot yet. If you try to shoot behind or straight in front of you, outside the normal 90 degree angle, you'll also see that you'll torque badly.
It's not a good idea in a hunting scenario. Most people shake when a trophy animal gets in their sites. Having a solid anchor, if nothing else, steadies one hand.
If we could put our bows on a rest, we'd be able to shoot even better. That's one of gripes that archers have with crossbows.
I think the OP is just shooting for inclusion in the funniest comment thread- grin
