We were working along a steep south slope following very fresh elk sign when we heard a bugle. It was a quiet growl, not much of a bugle I guess. We hadn't been calling so we decided to work down and sneak in. The bull was constantly growling and we were close several times, but the bull kept moving slowly down hill. We thought at first that we might be able to sneak in on him as he wasn't moving at first. It was really steep and hard to move quietly with any speed.
The wind was steady and blowing straight up, he had no clue to our presence. Finally we reached the bottom and the bull just kept out of reach. We finally felt that there was no sneaking in on him and finally tried some cow calls which he immediately responded too but I think it was too late as he'd crossed the creek and was headed up the other side.
By all the sign, I'm positive he had cows and they were headed for bed. By the time I hit the creek bed, and heard where he was on the hillside across the creek, there was no chasing him. It was dangerously steep and he had a huge head start. The creek was raging from rain and it wasn't gonna happen.
What does this low growl mean? We never saw him but based on his tracks I'd say we were dealing with a pretty good herd bull. How would you handle this type of scenario?
No telling exactly what happened. My guess is he heard you...and was suspicious. We had bulls hearing us walking at 200yds [in the first few dry days] and bugled at us. He might have heard you walking and patterned your steps. Two guys sound better than one to these elk.
My tendency is to be more aggressive than less...but nothing is 100%. Easy to armchair QB this but if you trotted toward him with excited cow calls- that might have stopped him.
I've also had one bull that "cow called" all day instead of growling or bugling. It was a little more hoarse than the typical call. I followed that bull for over a mile and messed up my shot opportunity.
I made the same sound back at them and mixed in a cow call and called in bulls that way on 4 different days resulting in a few different shooting situations and one kill - never did a single traditional low-high-low pitch bugle on any of those days that I didn't hear traditional low-high-low bugles, unless I wasn't hearing anything at all.
In your scenario, I'd have backed out and been at that creek before day light the next day, but that's just this novice elk hunter's intuition. My limited experience with bulls who are heading to bed in a steep place with cows is that the cows aren't waiting for the bull and the bull isn't waiting for the challenger. You may get a response as he heads up the mountain, but I think that more times than not, the bull's bugle is his way of saying, "go fxxx yourself," and not, "I'm gonna come kick your ass if you don't stop bugling."
Herd bulls don't become herd bulls by leaving their herds and returning 1/2 way down the mountain they just climbed at the sound of every toot on a kazoo.
I've never been apt to call much but learned a ton on this trip. Trying to learn more from some of the experiences we were left without answers on. Hopefully next year I can come in with more knowledge and be better equipped to handle different situations. Still looking for my first branch bull.
Thanks guys.
After noon you can either try some cow calls and try and get him to come up once his cows are bedded or tried to get one bugle out of him with a locator, then sneaky indian in on him once you know his bedding spot.
We hunted all three days that it rained, all day from light till dark. one day we got on a couple bulls and that was after it stopped raining for a bit. Every time I've been hunting and a heavy rain comes in, I can't get on the elk for nothing. You'd think with the change in weather, dropping temps and barometer, the elk would really get going. Worst three days of our whole two weeks, can't explain it.
Later in the rut, when the bulls have their ladies rounded up and locked down.... they can go real quiet if the satellites have pretty much given up (or been killed) and had their butts kicked enough they aren't harassing the herd bull much, been run off. They aren't going to advertise the sweet position they have dialed in. And no need to fight for it unless you're kicking their door in. Even then it can be better if they cut out the back door...
And.. many times the reactions have nothing to to with the bull and everything to do with the cows. If they doesn't like the rain... that's that. A bull will give em a go and all he needs is for em to stand still long enough, rain be damned. (I was kinda like that in high school...) Cows.... well, we all know... the mood, the timing, red wine, soft music, chocolate.... out in the rain.... not so much...
I've had good luck in the rain with regards to bugling, but also bad luck, just like every other condition I've run into, so hard to say for sure what the factor actually was.
My guess is the low growls you heard were just the bull communicating with the cows. Letting them know he's still there if nothing else. Cows stay around herd bulls during the rut to keep inferior bulls from constantly pestering them as much as anything else, but they will get bored with a bull that doesn't exert/reinforce his dominance thru vocalizations and/or other means, and I've found that in the peak of the rut, the bull is vocalizing just enough to maintain this status, and the vocalizations may become very quiet at times depending on how much other bulls have been dogging the herd (i.e. if he's run all of them off, no need to bugle his head off).
If it is a herd bull with cows, about your only chance aside from getting in front of the herd is to get close and challenge bugle him. Any time you are dealing with a dominant bull with cows, cow calls rarely bring the bull, though they will respond which is their way of calling the "cow" to them, but they aren't going to go out of their way to bring a cow to them most times.
good luck!
An interesting aside... We had left the truck at a small trailhead and began hiking that morning. We'd ascended a ways and heard a very faint bugle back by the truck. It was a weird sound and we looked at each other and said what was that!?!? Maybe someone was messing around at the trailhead we thought. Either way, we weren't descending back down to find out.
Much later in the morning and about 1500 feet higher, we'd come way back around onto the same mountainside and much further upstream from the truck. That's when we heard that bugle. It was the same elk. He was right down at the trailhead first thing in the morning.
1 - Growl or growls with no other sounds accompanying them. --- This Low Growl is used by all elk (Cows too) when they hear something nearby & are not sure what it is, when the growl is given they expect a satisfying response or visual if it's another elk as to what the source of the sound is they heard. (This is not the same as the Nervous/Popping Grunt) When no satisfying response is heard they will move off fairly quickly, not running but at a decent pace. All along you felt you were slipping in on elk that didn't know you were there because you hadn't been calling to them --- To the elk giving the Growl, in this case the herd bull, he doesn't know if it's a satellite slipping in or a predator in stealth mode. Point is he hears something such as you continually following the herd so keeps a safe distance ahead of the noise.
Most herded up elk when leaving a morning feeding area & in transition towards bedding do it leisurely & in no real hurry, they will feed here & there & mosey along when not alarmed. The elk you were hearing were not leisurely moving, they kept ahead of you because you were being heard as you followed them. At no time did you satisfy their curiosity as to what you were! Timing is everything in situations as this.
For best results when slipping into elk that are talking or not & you get closer & closer & you hear this low growl know right then & there you've been busted. Don't think if you don't say anything they will forget about what they just heard. Understand what you are hearing & settle them down quickly with a low mew or two. This will generally anchor them & keep them there or very close by.
Here's an example that happened to us not long ago. We were hunting a very steep drainage, (3 of us) we were near the bottom so the mountains were straight up behind us & in front of us. We heard two different bulls bugling, one was on one side 1/2 way up the mountain & one was 1/2 way up the other. This is generally two herd bulls in this situation. We picked the closest one which was a good 800 yards or so above us. We climbed & climbed until we felt we were 200 yards or so just below the bull, he & the other would continue bugling every few minutes on their own so no need for us to make a sound.
About this time my son looks at me & says dad listen for the growl, I shook my head as a yep. The other guy with us looked at us with a confusing look, he asked what we were talking about in a low voice. We quickly explained that since conditions were dry & not making any noise as we approached this bull was nearly impossible that he would sooner or later hear us under him & he would then give that low growl wanting to know what we were.
We explained that as soon as he growled I would cow call to satisfy his curiosity, my son & the other guy were the shooters. Of course I hoped we could slip in silently & avoid the growl. (grin) The terrain was steep & very brushy with 8' tall alders so we had decent cover with a few sparse openings. As soon as we were aprox 70 yards away to my best guess & the bull above us we heard the growl, this was the first one we had heard besides the bulls regular bugle back & forth with the other bull. I ushered the two shooters up not worrying about noise, they made it 15 yards ahead of me & got ready quickly, things happened fast. I gave two low mews & rustled the brush with my hands as if I were a cow coming to his bugles, the bull chuckled & I could hear him close the distance. I mewed louder with a single 1 second whine & I saw his antlers appear straight above me.
I looked towards the shooters & see my son at full draw & he plants that arrow right into the 6 point. Now if we had not understood that sound I firmly believe we would have not had any chance whatsoever with that bull. It's a good thing we did not just chalk up the growl as just another elk sound & so continued to climb thinking the bull didn't know we were there. I know he would have been gone if we had not been prepared for his actions.
As mentioned earlier, there are different growls that represent different messages. We were only concerned with this one that day! (grin)
ElkNut1
"You'd think with the change in weather, dropping temps and barometer, the elk would really get going."
Elk are gonna do what elk are gonna do, regardless of what we want them to do or think they should do. Sometimes we can figure out why they react a certain way, other times they just leave us scratching our heads. In over 3 decades of bowhunting elk, my best day for bugling activity was a day that was downright cold, with rain changing to snow. OTOH, I've had similar days when they were quiet as a church mouse. Same goes for darn near any other condition you can think of. You never know what's going to turn you into the "Pied Piper" of elk callers so that bull throws caution to the wind and comes in begging to be shot. That's why it's so important to become proficient with all the different elk vocalizations. Heck, sometimes just raking a tree doing a mock rub will work when nothing else will.
I've always done what Idyll suggests, and it's been extremely effective...I'll mimic the bull and then when he starts getting cranked up, I'll cut his bugles off with my own. Seems to really pi$$ them off!
Keep one thing in mind. Doesn't matter who you are, how good/experienced you are, etc, there are simply some bulls you can't call in...period. Big ol' herd bulls don't become big ol' herd bulls by being stupid.
