Mathews Inc.
Evidence of Sex
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
greg simon 07-Oct-15
deerman406 07-Oct-15
Well-Strung 07-Oct-15
Paul@thefort 07-Oct-15
JLS 07-Oct-15
Ziek 07-Oct-15
Rocking R 07-Oct-15
IdyllwildArcher 07-Oct-15
Start My Hunt 07-Oct-15
Saxton 07-Oct-15
IdyllwildArcher 07-Oct-15
midwest 07-Oct-15
Z Barebow 07-Oct-15
ohiohunter 07-Oct-15
WapitiBob 07-Oct-15
Glunt@work 07-Oct-15
Surfbow 07-Oct-15
cnelk 07-Oct-15
JLS 07-Oct-15
JLS 07-Oct-15
Hunts_with_stick 07-Oct-15
elkmtngear 07-Oct-15
loprofile 07-Oct-15
TD 07-Oct-15
WV Mountaineer 07-Oct-15
Ziek 07-Oct-15
WV Mountaineer 07-Oct-15
orionsbrother 07-Oct-15
SB 08-Oct-15
IdyllwildArcher 08-Oct-15
Jethro 08-Oct-15
Aaron Johnson 08-Oct-15
midwest 08-Oct-15
midwest 08-Oct-15
From: greg simon
07-Oct-15
On the thread about the gutless method changing laws evidence of sex came up. I'm wondering what everyone does to meet this requirement when deboning an animal in the backcountry. With todays technology you would think a dated digital photo would suffice, I know Kansas has a way to do this with does. So what do you guys do...does a d%&k in a bag count?

From: deerman406
07-Oct-15
In NY evidence has to be left on the animal. So testicles or penis on a buck or if packing it out, you must keep them with the animal as well as the antlers on the skull. Shawn

From: Well-Strung
07-Oct-15
I've never killed an elk that had his manhood attached to any of his bones. Even when we de-bone we leave it attached by skin/flesh on one of the rear quarters.

As far as having evidence of sex with an either sex tag..I guess it's so you don't shoot a non-legal bull and say it was a cow.

From: Paul@thefort
07-Oct-15
in the bag does not count.

Must be attached naturally the best way one can even when deboning to a hunk of the rear ham quarter meat.

Pain in the a$$ for sure.

From: JLS
07-Oct-15
Depends on the state. The quickest and cleanest way I have found to do it is to leave a short section, 1" or so of the penis attached to a hindquarter as I am removing it via the gutless method. If it's a cow, I leave a portion of the mammary tissue.

You can remove the hide and still satisfy these requirements, if having any hair touching the meat freaks you out.

Whether you agree with the requirement or not, I can never understand why this is made out to be such a big deal.

From: Ziek
07-Oct-15
It can be done no matter the field care you use. But it is a PIA. I understand why they want it in some cases. But if you only have one tag and it's either sex, it makes absolutely no sense.

From: Rocking R
07-Oct-15
You have to keep it attached in Colorado. You can do this a couple ways when boning out. You can leave a patch of hide on a rear quarter with the testicles attached to that piece of hide. Or, you can dissect the scrotum and leave each testicle attached to its respective quarter. This removes all hair and hide if you like that better. Depends on your preference.

07-Oct-15
In the past, I always cut around the scrotum and left it attached to a quarter, but on my bull this year, as I finished with the last cuts and pulled the quarter up (breaking down the animal solo) the little bit of tissue I had connecting the penis shaft ripped off.

Fortunately I did it on the first quarter so I was able to leave the scrotum on the 2nd quarter, but it's an example of what can go wrong and that it is indeed a PIA.

I always guessed that the rule was in place so that you couldn't kill a trophy buck/bull and then kill a female for the ease or quality of the meat. It's completely ridiculous though, since you could just cut a small piece of meat off the buck/bull and leave the penis attached, and then debone an entire doe/cow and bring the meat out.

Seriously, who's going to kill 2 animals just to get a trophy and better meat? Maybe the odd guy, but a significant portion of hunters to necessitate a rule that inconveniences everyone and is easily worked around?

These rules should be removed in all states IMO. I'm sure there's going to be someone who disagrees with me who think's it's no big deal and saves a bunch of animals, but I just don't think the law ends up preventing anything.

07-Oct-15
Ike, I agree with you that in most cases it does not make sense. However, in units where there are minimum antler point restrictions like in CO, it prevents someone from shooting a bull that has less than the requirements and passing it off as a cow.

Mike

From: Saxton
07-Oct-15
My guess, the reason for evidence of sex. If you kill a bull that is not legal, one could just leave the antlers and bring the meat out and say it was a cow. ????

To stay on the thread topic. This year I killed a cow; did the gutless method and just left the utters attached to a hind quarter meat.

07-Oct-15
Then why is the requirement in place in other states that don't have antler requirements?

And why not just require all cows to have vulva attached? Then you couldn't pass a bull off as a cow.

I think it's just one of those remnant laws that don't make sense that are just around because someone thought they'd be a good idea even though there wasn't a problem to begin with and it's just stuck.

Seriously, how many people are going to do that? Enough to warrant the law? I doubt it.

From: midwest
07-Oct-15
Wyo got rid of that law this year for either sex tags.

From: Z Barebow
07-Oct-15
PIA I agree. I had to do this for the first time this season. Right or wrong, here is how I tried to comply. (Gutless method)

I removed penis and testicles, leaving the scrotum attached. I took an empty Ziploc sandwich bag and put it around the scrotum to keep hair off the meat.

Unless you are Caitlen Jenner, this should be enough evidence of sex. IMHO.

From: ohiohunter
07-Oct-15
A midwest friend of mine harvested his first elk in CO, a cow. He left proof of sex on a hind quarter.... he lost that hind quarter. I'll take a ticket before I waste meat, so sue me.

From: WapitiBob
07-Oct-15
"He left proof of sex on a hind quarter.... he lost that hind quarter."

He did something out of the ordinary then. Leaving proof on a sliver of skin, which may contact the surface of the meat won't in any way ruin an entire quarter.

From: Glunt@work
07-Oct-15
I hate laws where the positive effects are outweighed by the burden on law abiding people. Its not a huge deal to leave evidence of sex but it is a nuisance and I doubt it thwarts enough illegal take to make much difference.

Don't even get me started on the vehicle emissions hoops a buddy and I just jumped through to get an old Land Cruiser registered so it can be driven a couple hundred miles a year in the mountains.

From: Surfbow
07-Oct-15
"He left proof of sex on a hind quarter.... he lost that hind quarter. I'll take a ticket before I waste meat, so sue me."

I doubt he lost that meat due to a tiny little piece of hide attached...

From: cnelk
07-Oct-15
Im sure this law, like many others, is another way to generate $$$ for fines.

From: JLS
07-Oct-15
cnelk,

Maybe in Colorado, but in the states that I've hunted the game wardens give out far more warnings for this than they ever even think of issuing tickets.

From: JLS
07-Oct-15
Agree with WapitiBob and Surfbow. There is no way in hell you lose a hindquarter simply because of the sex organs attached.

07-Oct-15
In PA I have three kids, is that evidence enough??? he he he, someone had too.....

From: elkmtngear
07-Oct-15
"There is no way in hell you lose a hindquarter simply because of the sex organs attached".

Agree x4. Been doing it for many years with no meat loss.

Best of Luck, Jeff

From: loprofile
07-Oct-15
Bill Clinton left evidence on a dress

From: TD
07-Oct-15
Every time I hear that phrase my mind drifts back to high school....

07-Oct-15
It doesn't prevent anybody from poaching. It doesn't save animals from poaching. Last time I checked, 6 years ago, You didn't have to check an elk in in CO. And, I've never had a butcher ask for the proof of sex that was in the game bags. You just leave a tag, come back and get your meat. The holes in the theory they protect off limit animals are to numerous to even state.

FWIW, the big deal is I kill meat from nature to keep from eating piss and stuff that gets on domesticated animals during slaughter. I don't want the stinking sex organ or piss maker on the meat I just killed. Why antlers or, lack of aren't sufficient is beyond me.

This is just my opinion.

From: Ziek
07-Oct-15
"...or piss maker on the meat..."

No one said you had to. A testicle will suffice, and as others have said, they will not effect the meat in any way.

While most of us don't like the ridiculous rule, meat loss is not one of the reasons.

07-Oct-15
I never said it was Ziek. A testicle to me is the same thing. READ my first post. It CONTAINS the WORDS SEX ORGAN for a reason. I never said meat was going to be lost. I said I don't want the stinking sex organs or piss makers on my MEAT. You might see that as dumb or irrelevant. I don't. I eat wild animals and my own butchered animals to not eat that crap.

It is what it is for me. It is as Glunt said too. cnelk has it right as well.

Take it from a guy that had an accident like Ike did and, once reasoning what he was going to do, decided to cape the skull and ears off a cow skull as substitute, to only be fined for not having the utter attached. It is a stupid rule. And, one that allows Barney Fife's to write honest sportsmen tickets while the poacher just keeps on poaching. It stops nothing. Only generates revenue for the states. God Bless

07-Oct-15
I think it's kind of silly that it has to be attached. If someone is going to freeze a scrotum or an udder to carry around to poach an animal, why wouldn't they be willing to freeze it attached to a hunk of meat to carry around?

From: SB
08-Oct-15
Evidence of sex eh? ......ah.. never mind!

08-Oct-15
Seems like a pretty common law too. I don't memorize them, but look it up before I hunt in a given state. Are there any western states that don't have the law?

If one were interested in working on getting the law changed, are there any states that have an avenue for making a case for changing it that a NR could partake in?

From: Jethro
08-Oct-15
WY either sex tags are not required to leave evidence attached.

08-Oct-15
Any concerns with traveling across state lines w/o evidence of sex when transporting? Let's say you leave Wyomng and get stopped in CO?

From: midwest
08-Oct-15
As I stated above under your last post, Ike. geez ;-)

RETENTION OF EVIDENCE TO IDENTIFY SEX, SPECIES AND HORN OR ANTLER DEVELOPMENT OF BIG GAME ANIMAL HARVESTED. Any person who takes any big game animal in a hunt area where the taking of either sex, species, or antler or horn development is controlled or prohibited by regulation shall comply with this section while said animal is in transportation from the site of the kill to the residence of the person taking the animal or delivered to a processor for processing. (a) In hunt areas where the taking of any big game animal is restricted to antler point or horn size by regulation, the antlers or horns shall accompany the carcass, or edible portions thereof. (b) In hunt areas where the taking of any big game animal is restricted to a specific sex of animal by regulation, either the visible external sex organs, head or antlers shall accompany the carcass, or edible portions thereof. (c) In hunt areas where the taking of a species of deer is controlled or prohibited by regulation, either the head or the tail of the deer shall accompany the animal, or edible portion thereof, as evidence of the species taken.

From: midwest
08-Oct-15
Wyoming law makes sense.

Aaron, Wyoming tag on the animal, should be no worries.

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