Contributors to this thread:
Thinking of doing a change to my whole hunting setup. My bow exploded before regulars season and my new bow is in and set up. I am shooting 425 grains total at 301 FPS. I love the new bow and I have been really working with it to shoot it as much as possible before late season. I have shot slick tricks for years 100 grains and had pretty good success with them. They fly nice and hold a good group out to 60 yards, the problem is good group is volley ball size at 60 yards. Now my field points are softball size at that range. So my nephew came up and I guided him early season and he was shooting swhackers. No elk as he cant close the deal but thats a different story. He left his bow and gear up here so I decided to shoot his practice swhacker tips. Same size grouping at 60 as my field points. I know people will say but you only have a one inch entry hole with the Swhacker so if you dont get a pass through your entry is only an inch. Well I shot one inch single blade broadheads for years. The point is I like the grouping, I really do and the bow is tuned to perfect bullet holes. The two inch cutting blades seem like a great idea. I mean these things I have seen on deer put a hole in it like it was stabbed with a machete. So any opinions on this mechanical would be appreciated.
I shot a little ol javelina with one years ago. I figured I would easily get a pass thru on such a little animal, so why not cut a huge hole. 425 gr arrow out of a 70# bow. Hit it in the shoulder and only got 1.5" of penetration. The arrow fell out and I found out why. The ferrule was bent like a question mark. Blades were locked into the bent ferrule. Personally, I dont think a long and skinny aluminium ferrule has any place in a big game broadhead. If you are dead set on a mechanical for elk, I'd look elsewhere. But I also think your time would be better spent working on your form and/or tune to tighten your groups up with a quality fixed head.
I wouldn't shoot an elk at 60yds with them. Their durability is questionable.
So they dont hold up well to big hit? That is a problem. Hitting the shoulder blade on an elk is not unheard of and a mechanical must be able to hold up to that. I liked the groups and I really liked the cutting surface for better blood trails. The problem is if the head is doesnt perform then your screwed and you dont get anything on performance. I have seen tons of elk hit with many different broadheads. Performance is so important. Not only penetration but cutting area is also a big deal. Elk can cover some ground with decent shot in them. The faster they go down the better. Even a double lung with with a fixed blade can take a while to bring a big bull down.
Any idea on the Grim Reaper Hybrid.
No mechanical head is going to hold up or perform into an elk shoulder blade, hate to break it to you. Stick with the Slick Tricks, the grass is greener approach rarely works anywhere in life. If they haven't let you down before, why would you ever change?
For elk I've stuck with low profile fixed blade. The wac'em 125 is what I currently use since it is the most accurate fixed for me, for the longer shot opportunities.
If I wanted more blood I would look at possibly a 4 blade low profile fixed. I do have wac'em 4 blade exit heads but they don't fly as perfct as the 3 blade. I have also shot the slick trick standard, and killed a whitetail with one so that's a thought, though for me once again it didn't fly as perfectly as the wac'em triton.
Wouldn't dare use this head on elk or really any big game. Pick a solid well regarded fixed blade and leave the "what ifs" in the package with the schwakers.
Stick with the Slick Tricks. They kill as fast or faster than anything I've ever used or seen.
If you slicktricks have performed well in the past why change. I am not a fan of expandables. I kolled a big old body buck recently. He was quartering away. I hit just behind last rib, went completely through catching liver a bit of near side lung and center of off lung and excited off side breaking the leg on the way out and stuck into the ground. I shoot a 175 grain VPA, there is no way an expanding head would of done that. Blood trail a blind man could follow for 60 yards. A volley ball sized group is not bad at 60 yards, just don't shoot that far at an animal. If it ain't broke(like your bow)don't fix it!! Shawn
A 8.5" group (volleyball) at 60 is a 4.25" group at 30. Thats a nice elk hunting set-up. Nothing wrong with trying to improve it, but switching to a mechanical wouldn't be on my list of things to tinker with.
I am actually planning on switching to the Slick Trick Magnum for my Elk set up next season. My question is should I go with the 100 or the 125GR? I planned on testing the head this winter with my PSE Decree @ 28.5 Draw,66LBS with a 27.25" Goldtip Pro Hunter 7595. I was thinking about trying these heads with the AAE Plastifletch 2.0. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
The 125 is better in all respects provided your arrow is of sufficient spine. And it should be with a GT 7595 at that length and poundage.
Soft ball size groups consistently at 60 yards is world class bud. God Bless
I am always trying to improve my shooting. I really wish I could shoot a freaking Kitchen Knife down range accurately. My goal is to shoot tight groups with the a tank of a broadhead that puts a massive hole in the animal. The bigger the whole the better in my opinion. So I would love to find a better broadhead.
I use MBH's a lot on deer-sized game, but don't prefer them or steep angled fixed blades (Slick Tricks, Trocars) for bigger and longer-haired animals.
The steep angle of the blades is more of a chopping action. You are correct on that point. Once again anyone have any word on the grim reaper hybrid. Looks like a pretty cool concept but wondering about how tough they are.
Please try a 100 grain magnus buzz cut and if your group is not as good as the slackers I'll buy them from you.
You do not need a huge hole. Take the air out of them and you are all set. I would rather shoot a sturdy 1" diameter head that is solid and will slice thru ribs and such than a flimsy broadhead that comes apart when it hits a rib. Shawn
I've been quite pleased with my Swhackers on deer, but I use Slick Tricks for bigger stuff.
Just shot a cow elk at 40 yards with a Dead Ringer Super Freak set at 2.250". She went 10 yards. Not all mechanicals are build equal. I invented the not then called Swhacker broadhead a long time ago. It was borrowed??? by a Gentleman in Tucson he and his partner got together and came out with the Wapiti. The partnership sank and the gentleman in Tucson put the blades in a ferrul like I used and he put it on the market as the Sonoran. Mr.Parker and the man from Tucson got together and came out with the Swhacker. Mr Parker used to shoot Vortex which I also invented. I would not put the broadhead on the market. This is some history from the 90's. Though you all might be interested.
The dead ringer rampage 2 inch 3 blade does look impressive. I don't know how tough that is but it looks pretty solid.
Still no idea from anyone on the grim reaper hybrid.
Rage is better than everything your looking at. Huge entry holes and all steel with the Hypodermics...
Levi Morgan has been killing lots of stuff with Swhackers. I'm sure if he didn't have faith in them, he wouldn't use them, I know money talks, but I think Levi can pick and choose who he wants as a sponsor.
He's killed elk, moose, bison, deer, etc with swhackers.
"Not all mechanical s are build equal"
HEAD DOCTOR +1, Im glad to see you chime in. I know your story on the Swhacker and feel your pain on an idea being borrowed by someone.
SwiftShot, if your interested in a mechanical you might also take a look at NAP KIllzones.
Ive taken 8 elk, all with a mechanical, over half of them with the Vortex.
Just a little advice. If you choose to shoot a Mechanical of any kind understand how it works and what makes it work. Just like any other part of your equipment look it over and dont just assume you can screw it on and forget about it. This is the only argument that FBBH users really have. You would be amazed at how many people shove a mechanical in the foam of their quiver just to pull it out and see the blades are open. What?? you mean it worked like its supposed to? Incredible.
I've had buddies use both the Grim Reaper and all versions of the Rage. A total of 4 elk (two with reapers, one with rage hypo and one with the rage prior to the hypo). The grim reaper maybe pushed in 2-4 inches. It came out on the bull's second stride. Maybe a rib? Second bull was killed with a perfect shot, but only one lung at 20 yards is a failure in my opinion.
Rage's seemed to penetrate a bit better. One bull at 32 yards died in sight but not a clean pass through on a shot that should have been. A second bull died after a day of bleading with the hypo head. A shot to the liver region of the bull and the arrow penetrated about 8 inches.
I used to shoot a montec. Great results. Flew perfect. Great penetration. Switched to the Strickland Helix this year with two pass through shots thus far. The only reason I'm trying a two blade was because I, like you, wanted to tweak my setup just a little to get more penetration, less error possibility, etc. After reading all the ashby reports and talking to trad guys about their arrows, I settled on the Helix (plenty of other two blades out there). I wanted a single bevel to create the wound channel and to split bone.
If I were you, I'd go the other direction -- stay away from mechanicals, try another good fixed blade, or go to a two blade set up.
IMO exodus are at the top, I bought some slick tricks this year, great head but they did point out the fact that my bow was a little out of tune, the exodus were less critical, I did get them to fly good but they are nowhere near as forgiving as exodus. Don't use a mech for elk!
Chasewild, how much was the total arrow weights on the failures and was any FOC built into the arrows. Most likely the failure were due to the momentum loss at the impact with the wider cutting heads.
I've had pass through on elk with a vortex 2 and 3/4 inch swath. No way I could have achieved that with a light fast arrow. Ask the trades guys what arrow weights they are shooting. The penetration failures were not due to just the heads. Gonna shoot wide heads, best have something heavy behind it.
shoot a heavier arrow with a 125grain slick trick out front. slow the arrow down a little and shoot better groups. i shoot a victory rip 300 with a stainless steel 60 grains insert and a 125 slick trick magnum with a 4 Fletch 4 in feather strong helical. shoots a great groups and awesome pass throughs
Just to chime in with some data. I shoot a butt load of pig every year. Somewhere between 40 to 70 all with slick tricks and shuttle Ts and recovery from what appeared to be well placed shots were abysmal.
I took a guy who shot rages and three shots and three dead porkers inside fifty yards.
I decided to shoot mechanical and wen with swackers since I saved $5 bucks a pop.
First four pigs and four pigs recovered. So now all I shoot for pigs are mechanicals.
I watch the hunting shows and I have seen some horrible shots with rages and swackers to watch the animal go fifty yards and drop.
Now I am not fully converted so this year when I go to Ohio and Indiana I will have shuttle Ts but from my corner of the world I see there is very positive aspects of mechanicals.
Swackers are by far the most accurate head that I have personally shot.
I know some of you guys are more qualified than me but I am just looking at results.
I can also tell that I had a couple of well hit deer be far more of arduous track jobs than one would have suspected.
Not Swhackers. (Aluminum ferrule and over the top deploy) But mech can be OK. I've killed a few with Ulmers over the years. I've had both blades break and lost raghorn bull (4 inches penetration) with Rage Hypodermics so I'd avoid that one.
My list of best mech head would be Ulmers, Rage KE. In that order. 2 inch cut is asking for trouble with elk IMHO.
I switched from Ulmers to Trocars when I got some crazy arrow deflection this past year. Missed that bull by 10 ft at 30 yards because of the deflection.
I shoot Slic Trics. If I ever shoot a mechanical it would be a swacker. But somehow I just don't think i'll ever shoot a mechanical. Goodluck to you. Mike
Big hurt. You were very close it was Marvin and Dennis Yes i do remember you. That was a long time ago. I might mention that I also invented the Trauma and Rampage broadheads that are currently on the market by Dead Ringer. In the near future I will tell you how the end of Vortex came about...The rest of the story.
The Rage failures I mentioned above definitely had something to do with loss of momentum but I'd still be wary.
All four arrows were around that 415-440 total grain weight. Without getting into the weeds, I'd bet an exact set up with a fixed would have been better (although how much we can't be positive).
These threads always reduce to confidence. I'm most confident shooting a heavy arrow, fixed blade, at close distance. Seems simple to me.
I shot two doe in the past two days with 3 blade Swhackers. One was a 53 yard pass through on a broadside deer. She went less than 100 yards with a lung/liver hit. The other doe was slightly quartering towards at 34 yards and I hit her just behind the shoulder. The head did its job and she made it less than 40 yards but the arrow did not pass through. I didn't hit anything other than ribs and was surprised the arrow held up inside her. I would bet anything that if I made this same shot with my razor tricks the arrow would have sailed through. I will be sticking to Razor tricks for elk and big deer, but I do like to experiment with expandables when I'm doe hunting.
"Big hurt.....yes i do remember you. That was a long time ago?
How could that be? Big hurt is just a young kid.
Unless.....hmmmmmm
Yes, TBM, got it figured out quite a while ago you've been posting under your son's handle.
I would like to know what happened to Marden Vortex myself. Great broadhead. I always keep 1 in the quiver and only have about 45 or so left.
Looks like I will be shooting my Slick Tricks or Viper Tricks instead of the Swhackers.
I used the Vortex for a season and I examined the cavity of a deer after a Vortex shot and the arrow entered and hit a rib and shot straight up next to the spine, couldnt figure that one out. Im happy with my Slick Tricks now and cant complain. I do have an itch though to try a VPA or Black Hornet. Im even tempted to try a Red River head.
I am tempted on the grim reaper hybrid. It looks bad azz.
I think that this is great data on WHITETAILS. Read the article. To see how this transfers to elk, Id say this- the accuracy edge of fixed blades stays the same. The slight increase of recovery with whitetails will NOT transfer over to elk. Study take aways- fixed are slightly more accurate with people shooting, but not a hooter shooter. Even with a hooter shooter mechanicals are not much more accurate. Mechanicals have a slight edge in game recovered. To me, that makes sense with a whitetail. Throw in bones of an elk and the numbers will dramatically fall. http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2014/11/broadhead-test-fixed-blades-vs-mechanicals
"Mechanicals have a slight edge in game recovered"
Not sure I'd buy that, given the modest difference in recovery rate and the quite substantial difference in sample size.
And also the fact that they had tracking dogs. Suggests to me that as long as the deer died, they found it, but I'm still not ready to commit to the idea that mechs kill more reliably, and definitely not if you're talking about wide-cut mechanicals striking Elk bones and getting one lung at best in rough country with no tracking dogs....
It's probably a sad commentary on our woodsmanship these days, but absent a tracking dog, what gets most animals found is blood on the ground. Let's assume that a really solid hit (assuming no failure to penetrate) will just about guarantee recovery either way, but would you rather track a bull that stays on its feet for 60 seconds leaving a blood trail, or 45 seconds without one?
Maybe my bow is just too slow, but Stinger 125s will group as tight as filed points to 45yards and hit on the same group. Of course, I also shoot a lot of feather.
A volleyball-sized group under target practice conditions is not sufficient accuracy for hunting, IMO... Don't care if you're shooting "instinctively" at 16 yards or modern at 60... though the odds are probably worse at 60 due to hang time.
