That close, just about any other fixed head should bury the fletch...but it worked.
I know most of you all are professional killers but I have have shot my fair share of double lung shots on elk and yes there is blood but not like that and not that fast of a kill.
If you watch the video the arrow deflects before the leg ever moves. The moving of the leg no doubt helps inside trauma but, the lungs were busted well before that. It is impossible to say what all was messed up by the arrow moving but, unless it traveled down some once entering the cavity, the trachea and heart were safe. One thing is for certain, the arrow deflected and, stopped well before the leg ever moved.
As far as arteries carrying blood to the heart, they are lower at heart level. Not lung level. I'd say he was coughing because his lungs were filling up with blood. Proven by him coughing out the blood.
Sometimes animals bleed very well in comparison to other animals shot the same way. He was just one of those animals that spattered blood upon impact and, bleed out quick. That is what some lung shots do. He was alive long enough to cover the 100 or so yards common if he had run. He just didn't run
it sure looks like the arrow deflects on its way in...and behind the shoulder blade.... or off the bottom edge of the shoulder blade.
If it hit carotid....how would the blood come out of his mouth? Even if it cut the windpipe at the same time....the blood isn't going to come streaming out of his mouth.
I've cut the carotid and windpipe on a frontal elk shot and the blood comes streaming out of the front of the animals chest.
Nope I am not buying it, I am no novice at lung shots! I have watched many lung shot elk die right in front of me and not one has ever bled out that fast and with that much liquid blood! I have also seen what arteries do when they are severed so I respectfully disagree.
Dead in 35 seconds unless the video was edited, I can't say the extent of all the damage that was done but IMO there was without a doubt some kind of artery hit.
You think he went a 100yds?? I guess I have to disagree with that as well.
Here are the realities of it:
The video was edited. How much time it actually took the moose to fall from his feet is unknown. But, it goes with what has already been pointed out. If the animal had run, he had enough time to cover a pretty good distance before the increased blood pressure from doing so, bled him out.
It is clear the arrow DID NOT hit in front of the shoulder. The animal was nearly broadside but, still quartering to just a bit. An in front of the shoulder hit would have been in the neck at that angle. It wasn't in the neck, nor in front of the shoulder.
The arrow clearly deflected upon impact. That is as plain as everything else that has been stated in this post. The only vital, mid shoulder height, mid shoulder width organ in any animal we hunt is the lungs. Not the blood pumping, brain feeding, carotid arteries associated with the heart. Which happen to be concentrated farther forward and lower than the impact and deflection of that arrow
What was truly cut from the animal manipulating the arrow by it's own movements is unknown. What was initially hit and, what caused the massive blood being chocked on was the lungs.
Of course this is all speculation as I wasn't there. But, at the least is goes with common sense of what was seen and, a general knowledge of where particular organs in an animals body are located.
I didn't say you said that he ran! the following are your words not mine
"He was alive long enough to cover the 100 or so yds" all I said was you think he went a 100 yds?
"It is clear the arrow DID NOT hit in front of the shoulder"
Look at the pictures dude, that is the front of the shoulder!
Gotcha, your the man!! does it make you feel like a big boy to imply that my reading comprehension is in question and that I obviously have no common sense.
LOL I take back the respectfully disagree part of my previous post!
I'll do this one more time, a little more clear so, to not have anymore misunderstanding.
Other posters talked of hitting the carotid artery and the Trachea. That is impossible with where that shot impacted and, where the arrow went after impact. The only way that could have happened is if the moose was shot IN front of the shoulder from a steeper angle. Hence, my first post. Which had zero to do with you or your posts up to that point.
Initially, my second post was a response to your idea of me saying the moose run 100 yards. Here is what you said.
"You think he went a 100yds?? I guess I have to disagree with that as well."
I'm sorry man but, you did say that. It is quoted right out of your post. I don't know how to take that other than how it reads. And, it is a total contradiction to what I did say. Hence the response about reading comprehension.
You keep stating "front of the shoulder". It is in your last post as well. Where I was clearly saying "IN FRONT OF THE SHOULDER". Let's go back and read the first part of this post. You see, there were other people that insinuated the hit was in front of the shoulder. You keep assuming that I am saying "in the front of the shoulder". Which leads to you assuming I'm talking to you with that comment. My friend, the deed is in the details. Hence, once again it comes down to reading comprehension.
Never, not once, have I stated your opinion was wrong about where the animal was hit. I did say you were wrong concerning what I said about the moose running. And, you were. As far as arteries. I'm under the impression it is impossible to hit the lungs solidly without hitting precious blood pumping arteries and veins. It is why the lungs are deadly. Pressurized life blood gushing out of cut holes leads to a quick death. That's the way it works and, why it works. No disagreement here on that.
No one is knocking your opinion. No one is saying you are inexperienced. No one. As far as I can tell, we are in agreement on most everything but, what you think was being said.
Calm down and breath. Gather your wits instead of being defensive and, read what is being said. Don't assume it is all about you. When I had something to say to you, I said your name in the part of the post that addressed you. I'd expect the same from you. And, understand that when multiple people respond to a thread, a post that summarizes the whole thread includes everyone and, will not entirely be directed at you solely unless you were the only other poster.
Good evening and God Bless men
BTW: Don't let bou grab your crank. The more disgusted you are getting the bigger he chuckles. He's witty.
WV I am not the one who is uptight, all I wanted to do was discuss the video of which I thought was pretty awesome and you decided to throw personal slurs towards me because I didn't agree with you, I won't let you do that with out a response. I think you need to go back and look at the posts to see who is uptight, You can try and spin this like a CNN news cast but I am not buying that either.
Your first post stated this "The arrow deflected BACK! Not forward!. He didn't hit in front of the shoulder!!!!!!!!!!! He hit it through the scapula. That means he hit in through the lungs, not the trachea!!!!!!!"
Quite a few exclamation marks don't you think? I know your comment was just partially directed to my previous post saying the arrow hit in front of the bone and others who said other things which is fine. I guess if I had said that it looks to me he might have hit right in front of the bone you wouldn't have had to hit that ! button so many times.
"One thing is for certain, the arrow deflected and, stopped well before the leg ever moved." I am not saying my opinion of the arrow hitting right in front of the bone is as definitive as you are implying your theory is, I just see it the way I see it and posted the pics to discuss the possibilities of what did happen, whatever it was. I agree that the arrow deflected but it entered then was either deflected back by something other than the scapula or was pushed back from the movement of the the leg going forward cutting more then just the lungs, IMO this kind of arrow movement happens so freaking fast that it can look one way but is another, my opinion is that if the arrow deflected backwards on the scapula upon entrance then you would be right with just the lungs, sorry dude but your certainty isn't mine.
You and Beendare said it was "A lung shot" and nothing else. I ask how is that just a lung shot? and your response was "because that's what lung shots do" that implies that I do not know what happens with a lung shot. All I said was that I am not buying it and that I have seen my fair share of lung shots in elk and have not seen that kind of devastation and liquid blood, yes I agree that lung shots are fast killers and there is plenty of blood involved but like I said, that moose is spewing a massive amount of blood and doesn't reflect my experiences which leads me to believe that it isn't just a lung shot.
Here is another picture that correlates with the other pics and arrow placement spots I marked, the first pic I posted shows the cameraman being to the left of the hunter and the arrow on its way at 5 yds so they said, I see the hunter and moose perpendicular to each other, the moose leg is clearly back and the arrow went straight in as the front leg was moving forward, IMO the arrow penetrated at the spot I posted in the next posted pic. this pic shows the same spot that I see the arrow hitting in the above pics but shows the bones, I know it is a crummy pic but it is the only one I found quickly.
I am totally open to what might have happened in the video but I have a hard time believing it was just a lung shot.
I'll also agree the guy got lucky.
It's not entirely bad, I suppose, as it allows for the voicing of numerous detailed opinions covering a wide range of possibilities. Though it would perhaps be better if there was less acrimony involved.
All I know is I saw those broad heads in a local sporting goods store (the bow shop near me doesn't carry them) and they looked like a complete gimmick. Even the logo screams late night, home shopping network junk. But hey, luck or not this guy has a pile of moose meat in the freezer.
Good for him.
Maybe I should't have posted at all, since nothing seems to get polite conversation going faster than an opinion about a broad head.
No question hit an artery. But we all know there are no arteries in and around the lungs.... nor do lung hit animals ever bleed out the nose and mouth.... heheheheheh....
One thing not touched on.
Do not focus where the entrance is. Easy to lock in on a spot on the surface and project broadside from that as "broadside" 2D is what is taught as gospel. Visualize where the broadhead is. In this case it's a good deal lower and back than where the spot of the entrance is.
IMO, especially viewing the vid in real time, he hit pretty much straight up the leg close and high to the apex of the > as you can get. So close he likely clipped some scap and deflected the arrow to the rear and down. The angle of the shaft in comparison to the shot angle seems to indicate that, but hard to say for sure on a moving, dynamic hit. IMO at the outer edges, but within a few inches of perfect. I'm guessing lungs and the bundle of arteries near the top of them. Results tend to support that.
He didn't square up on bone. In front of the shoulder would not have done that, angle the shaft down and to the rear. Clipping bone in front would logically deflect the broadhead forward and fletching rearward. Not the case here. At that angle there's really not much there, there, anyway.... nothing in front of the big bones but the big bones on the other side. Moose necks being big floppy moose necks and all....
My $.02 and worth every penny... Would have been cool to do 2 things.
1) an on site CSI to determine exactly what was hit.... and what wasn't....
2) A postmortem of the broadhead to see how it all held up and how big a plug of hair it shoved inside.... =D
How can you shoot that far forward on such a massive animals so close is simply a botched shot
The shot placement was good. Larger arteries and lung were hit.
The hunter made a terrible shot which fortunately provided a terrific result.
As an aside, that broadhead company should reconsider the hunters and/or those hunter's shots they use to market their product. If I had made that shot I would have blamed the placement on poor broadhead flight. Lol
2015 Idaho Shiras Moose double on video
the first bull shot had the same gushes of blood from the mouth - is this just a normal thing for moose ??
Over-analyzed to say the least...
HDE, what isn't over analyzed on Bowsite LOL it's the way it is on most threads! IMO at least analyzing a kill shot is interesting, it sure beats the hell out of many other subjects. What makes a thread suck is when people quit discussing/analyzing and start with personal attacks because of a difference in opinion or analysis.
Anyway I just got off the phone with Steve Shore from Hitman Canada he is the one doing the shooting in the video with his wife Jacquie to his right doing the videoing..
Now sometimes camera angles as most of you know don't always predict the way things look from the actual spot of the shot. Steve said that the shot was a little further forward (about 2 inches) then he would of liked. The arrow entered almost next to the lower joint of the scapula, but behind it, hitting both lungs and stopping in the far side scapula. As the moose moved the arrow did move forward.
So the answer we all wanted to know is both lungs where hit..
Respectfully Ed Rogalski
Maybe moose just bleed heavier through mouth ?
So the arrow went in near the back of the scapula joint? that must be the shortest scapula ever! I would place the joint of the scapula way lower than where the arrow is sticking out of the moose, maybe I'll get to butcher a moose next year and get a first hand look at the front shoulder bone structure.
I agree Stealthycat, it doesn't seem to be just a lung shot, I "imagine" LOL he must have hit some type of major blood vessel as well to get the blood spewing like it did.
If that had happened "instantly", the bull would have tipped over within seconds.
And FWIW, there are TONS of arteries and arterioles scattered throughout the lungs, though most of them are lower pressure circuits, being pulmonaries, and the bigger ones are farther forward and a bit lower, as they come off the top of the heart.
Yup, it sure does look like a Righteous Merry Boatload of blood pouring out of that bull. I wonder, though, how good a blood trail there would have been had that bull torn off at 40 MPH. You give a long set of legs like that over a half a minute to run, and you could be tracking a trail of mist.
JMO, a very lucky, not-very-good shot placement with a gimmicky head that penetrates like crap, and I'm glad they're illegal in at least some places. Any time you design a product to resemble a symbol that has noting to do with said product, you're going to have functional shortfalls...
Because - Truth Is, if you slice a blood vessel once, it won't bleed any less than if you take a section or a core sample out of it. The flow comes from ONE DIRECTION ONLY
I've never seen it that I remember -
I never have. They are all usually dead anywhere from 40 to 100 yds away (which only takes about 5 secs to go the 100 yds if they run away) with a whole bunch of blood on the ground (and on their mouth) where they coughed it up.
Maybe the animals I've shot are all just the exception...?
Did any of you watch CAbowhntr's video that he talks about above. Great video of his and his buddies hunt you should watch it. Well done video. Now in that video they double lung a bull moose, it only goes a few yds and stands. You can see it coughing up lots of blood.
Dose anyone know how long a moose or any other animal can stay conscious if blood flow is cut off to the brain??
I killed an Alaska bull with what looked like a fairly typical shot landing tight against the mid-leg muscle at 18 yards broadside. That bull bolted ahead quickly to 60 yards in probably 6-7 seconds. As soon as he stopped he immediately tumbled on his side completely stone dead. There was NO blood in the nostrils or mouth. I figured to have cut the aorta or other obviously major vessel above the heart. The massive and immediate loss of blood put him down in well under 10 seconds.
Conversely, I double-lunged a big bull at 6 yards and got a complete pass-through. He ran 300+ yards at a loping gallop and then slowed...went into a dizzy spin...and finally collapsed. I thought he would never stop, but expected him to go down in under a hundred yards.
Lucky cut = immediate downing within seconds.