3Rivers Archery Supply
PETITION Colo Bow Moose season dates
Moose
Contributors to this thread:
Sandbrew 21-Dec-15
sticksender 21-Dec-15
Jaquomo 21-Dec-15
chasin bugles 21-Dec-15
mohawkbows 21-Dec-15
standswittaknife 21-Dec-15
HH1 21-Dec-15
LUNG$HOT 21-Dec-15
njbuck 21-Dec-15
THP 21-Dec-15
T3 21-Dec-15
Yellowjacket 21-Dec-15
Paul@thefort 21-Dec-15
Well-Strung 21-Dec-15
IdyllwildArcher 21-Dec-15
Doc06 21-Dec-15
Rock 21-Dec-15
midwest 21-Dec-15
Sandbrew 21-Dec-15
Arrowflinger 21-Dec-15
midwest 21-Dec-15
cnelk 21-Dec-15
Fixitman 21-Dec-15
Teeton 21-Dec-15
pav 21-Dec-15
bhunter 21-Dec-15
tobinsghost 21-Dec-15
Marmot Eater 21-Dec-15
Db1 21-Dec-15
mrelite 21-Dec-15
otcWill 21-Dec-15
Robear 21-Dec-15
RogBow 21-Dec-15
Sandbrew 21-Dec-15
wifishkiller 21-Dec-15
Rock 22-Dec-15
bliz6 22-Dec-15
loesshillsarcher 22-Dec-15
samman 22-Dec-15
Sandbrew 22-Dec-15
coelker 22-Dec-15
Jaeger63 22-Dec-15
Lone Bugle 22-Dec-15
Drnaln 22-Dec-15
Paul@thefort 22-Dec-15
Sandbrew 22-Dec-15
Paul@thefort 22-Dec-15
Sandbrew 22-Dec-15
Hoot 22-Dec-15
stoneman 23-Dec-15
Ermine 23-Dec-15
BIGHORN 23-Dec-15
adobe 24-Dec-15
venison 24-Dec-15
ColoradoHunter 26-Dec-15
BoggsBowhunts 26-Dec-15
Sandbrew 26-Dec-15
Treeline 04-Jan-16
Sandbrew 05-Jan-16
Sandbrew 05-Jan-16
Chief 05-Jan-16
xring 17-Jan-16
GF 17-Jan-16
Sandbrew 17-Jan-16
sticksender 17-Jan-16
tobinsghost 17-Jan-16
Sandbrew 13-Feb-16
IdyllwildArcher 13-Feb-16
huntingbob 13-Feb-16
IAHUNTER 14-Feb-16
Sandbrew 11-Nov-16
grasshopper 11-Nov-16
Sandbrew 11-Nov-16
grasshopper 11-Nov-16
From: Sandbrew
21-Dec-15
Hello all-

Instead of complaining about this I decided to do something. Please respond with a simple YES or NO first then comments so I can easily tabulate the results. This applies to Colorado residents and no residents I have sent the following email to a core group who hope to make this change happen in early Jan 2016 for 2016 season and beyond.

Sandbrew

I am writing to gather support for modifying the existing 2016-2019 Colorado archery moose hunting seasons outside the normal Big Game Season Structure process. I know this is not how the process normally works but this is simply a season start date change. This process is done administratively annually at the January CWC meeting with a simple red line change.

With moose license numbers on the increase statewide this change will help minimize the opening day crowding between archery moose hunters and muzzloaders moose hunters who have drawn these once in a lifetime licenses. Opening day dates coincided in 2015 and will be the case in 2016-2018. This overlap in 2015 produced some conflicts between archers and muzzleloader moose hunters targeting the same bull moose opening morning after a long summer of scouting.

My change request is simply - Start all archery moose seasons on the Tuesday after labor day from now on. A Tuesday start vs Saturday may produce less conflicts with other public land users. This change brings many of the premium species start dates in line with numerous bighorn sheep and mountain goat seasons currently starting the Tuesday after Labor Day.

MOOSE SEASON DATES -

Current Archery: first Saturday after Labor Day in September through close of archery deer & elk Change to start the Tuesday after Labor Day

2015: 9/12 – 9/27

2016: 9/10 – 9/25 Start 9/6 -9/25

2017: 9/9 – 9/24 Start 9/5-9/24

2018: 9/8 – 9/23 Start 9/4-9/23

2019: 9/7 – 9/29 Start 9/3-29

Muzzleloader: 9 day season concurrent with muzzleloader deer & elk 2015: 9/12 – 9/20 2016: 9/10 – 9/18 2017: 9/9 – 9/17 2018: 9/8 – 9/16 2019: 9/14 – 9/22

Rifle: 14 day season, fixed dates annually, first 14 days of October 2015 - 2019: October 1 - October 14, annually

Other Western states Idaho varies by unit Oct 1-14, Nov 1-14, Sept 15-Dec 1 many Aug 30-Nov 23 many Montana Statewide - Sept 15-Nov 29 Utah 2015 Sept 12-Oct 15 Washington Varies by unit Oct 1- Nov 30 most or Oct 1 - Oct 31 Wyoming Varies by unit Archery Sept 1 or Sept 14 until rifle opens Rifle - Sept 15- Oct 31 Oct 1- Oct 31 Oct 1-Nov 20 Nov 1-20

From: sticksender
21-Dec-15
YES

From: Jaquomo
21-Dec-15
Yes!

This year it was a mess. ML elk, deer and moose hunters were all over my three friends trying to bowhunt moose.

21-Dec-15
Yes

From: mohawkbows
21-Dec-15
Yes....thanks for working on this!

21-Dec-15
YES

From: HH1
21-Dec-15
YES!

From: LUNG$HOT
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: njbuck
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: THP
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: T3
21-Dec-15
Yes!

From: Yellowjacket
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: Paul@thefort
21-Dec-15
yes

From: Well-Strung
21-Dec-15
YES

21-Dec-15
"...targeting the same bull moose opening morning after a long summer of scouting."

I would cut this part of the sentence out. It sounds self serving in so far as you're just trying to get first shot at moose instead of proposing a way to avoid conflict.

Perhaps add something about bowhunter safety in its place.

From: Doc06
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: Rock
21-Dec-15
Yes

Archery and Muzzleloader season should continue thru the end of rifle season. As this is basically a once in a lifetime license (for Bull hunters) they should be given every opportunity to fill their license.

From: midwest
21-Dec-15
yes

I was thinking the exact same thing as Idyl.

From: Sandbrew
21-Dec-15
Thanks for all the input.

Has there ever been a unanimously agreed on Bowsite topic ever?

Rock - I agree 100% but I think that will be to much to attempt to tackle right now. That is in my "next steps" plan.

Sandbrew

From: Arrowflinger
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: midwest
21-Dec-15
"Has there ever been a unanimously agreed on Bowsite topic ever?"

It's early. ;-)

From: cnelk
21-Dec-15
yes

From: Fixitman
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: Teeton
21-Dec-15
I'm a bowhunter never been on a gun hunt. Well home state deer and bear with gun I have, but never a hunting trip.

Up until Idyl posted about leaving out the

"targeting the same bull moose opening morning after a long summer of scouting"

I was taking a flat line on this thread and was not going to post anything. But with that statement left out I'm "IN".. so "YES"

Ed

From: pav
21-Dec-15
Yes...and totally agree with Ike's suggestion.

From: bhunter
21-Dec-15
Yes!

From: tobinsghost
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: Marmot Eater
21-Dec-15
Is this in advance of a proposed petition, or is their a petition already ongoing?

Should I say "NO" just to break this monotonous agreement?

Nah! As a ML, bow and rifle hunter, I'll say YES!

From: Db1
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: mrelite
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: otcWill
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: Robear
21-Dec-15
YES

From: RogBow
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: Sandbrew
21-Dec-15
Thanks for all the suggestions.

There is no formal format for a petition so I'm thinking a simple 1 pager should get it done based on facts, comments and feedback from numerous sources. I was just looking for support from the general bowhunting public like all the fellow Bowsiter's who have commented.

I was told the CBA has discussed this issue and I have connected with the CPW Rep and I am waiting for some kind of letter of supportn from the CBA.

One moose outfitter called and thanked me for pushing this forward. He called the Colorado Outfitters President who I then emailed. The COA Pres has commented on my email that he likes the idea and will run it past the COA board. So far all green lights.

I see the issue some may have with this line "...targeting the same bull moose opening morning after a long summer of scouting." and I was leery of putting it in there at all. BUT - I am aware of at least 3 incidents of this happening this year alone when the season start dates overlapped. I think in at least 2 of the cases a longer range weapon ended up taking the bull in question while the archer watched. I am cautious of making this a safety issue alone since that might leave the impression that bow hunters and muzzleloaders cannot safely share same seasons. That could lead to unintended consequences of shortening bow seasons which I doubt any of us want. All I am asking is for a staggered start exactly like elk and deer season currently.

Thanks for the votes.

Sandbrew

From: wifishkiller
21-Dec-15
Yes

From: Rock
22-Dec-15
I will speak with the CTAS BOD (Colorado Traditional Archers Society) But I can tell you right now they will all be in favor of this.

So Yes for them also.

From: bliz6
22-Dec-15
Yes!

22-Dec-15
Yes

From: samman
22-Dec-15
Yes

From: Sandbrew
22-Dec-15
30- Yes comments 0 - No comments 1- non vote but suggestion to change the wording- IdyllwildArcher 1- change the the wording then yes - Teeton

I kind of expected that type of overall response from this group.

Not unanimous but pretty good for 24 hours.

Rock - Thanks for gathering the CTAS support. If you have other comments you want included please email them to me.

I would like to summarize all this and have something formal to send to CPW and the CWC by end of day tomorrow.

Thanks,

Sandbrew

From: coelker
22-Dec-15
YES!

From: Jaeger63
22-Dec-15
YES!!!

From: Lone Bugle
22-Dec-15
YES

From: Drnaln
22-Dec-15
YES

From: Paul@thefort
22-Dec-15
Actually John there is a CPW Citizens Petition format that can be applied to this issue and a form to be filled out and followed in the process.

In the past, as the CBA/DOW Liaison, I contacted the 4 CPW Regional managers concerning many issues such as this for their opinion and advice/support.

I accomplished contacting the Managers prior any other CPW staff/ Commission member contacts as the managers do make a lot of recommendations that the Commission will follow. They always appreciated the heads up.

My best, paul

From: Sandbrew
22-Dec-15
Good advice Paul. I will contact these 4

Patt Dorsey, Southwest Region Manager

Dan Prenzlow, Southeast Region Manager

Ron Velarde, Northwest Region Manager

Steve Yamashita, Northeast Region Manager

I have had discussions with the State Big Game manger but he did not offer a specific form.

I have this format and

CITIZEN-PROPOSED ISSUE PAPER Date:

ISSUE: DISCUSSION (FACTS AND FIGURES, EXPLANATION OF ISSUE):

WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE?

HAVE YOU COMMUNICATED WITH ANY OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES?

WHAT INPUT HAVE YOU RECEIVED?

ALTERNATIVES:

PLEASE INDICATE THE PROBABLE OUTCOME IF THIS PETITION IS ACCEPTED, AS WELL AS THE IMPACT OF ALTERNATIVES TO THIS PETITION: PETITION PROPOSED BY:

PETITION WRITTEN BY:

DATE SENT TO THE COMMISSION:

Petitions generally will fall into three categories: those that request reconsideration of Commission action that occurred within the previous twelve month period; those that are 8 presented in conjunction with a current rulemaking process; and those which are related to an action taken more than a year earlier. Petitioners should be prepared to submit complete documentation in support of the rule changes that are being proposed in their

From: Paul@thefort
22-Dec-15
John, Exactly! Good work.

If you would like me to review the petition when completed and prior to being submitted, please ask if you feel the needed.

I know you will do a good job. Paul

From: Sandbrew
22-Dec-15
Thanks Paul- That format is not what I have on my screen. I'll try to fix it.

I have sent an email to the 4 regional managers.

John

From: Hoot
22-Dec-15
Yes

John, thank you for your initiative, even if I may never draw a tag, the seasons should be separate, in my opinion...

Tom

From: stoneman
23-Dec-15
Yes, and +1 for Rock's suggestion. This is a once in a lifetime tag. All bull licenses should remain valid until filled for the year it was issued.

From: Ermine
23-Dec-15
Yea

From: BIGHORN
23-Dec-15
Yes.

I have gotten tired of waiting for a license for about 18 years so, in 2016 I will be hunting a bull moose in northwestern Manitoba.

From: adobe
24-Dec-15
YES

From: venison
24-Dec-15
yes

26-Dec-15
Yes

26-Dec-15
Yes

From: Sandbrew
26-Dec-15
Hello all- Here is an update

Thanks for all the suggestions and votes. I took Paul’s advice and emailed the 4 Regional Managers and got this reply to my suggested change from one of the Regional Managers and I assume he spoke for the other 3 as well -

“This concern was just brought to our attention at the recent CBA coordination meeting last week. We discussed it and the consensus from CPW staff was that it was brought up during the 5-year season structure discussion and the determination was made at that time to keep it as we currently find it. I queried my fellow RM's as to if they have heard of any conflicts that they are aware of with the current opening day structure of archery moose. I realize that instances may not have been reported but none of them are aware of any conflicts. I wonder what we are attempting to fix.

The decision of course is not mine alone, so will leave such up to the other Regulation Managers but should an accommodation be made to move the opening date up to the Tuesday after Labor Day, I doubt there would be much internal support to extend the archery moose season for an additional four days as you suggest. Thanks for your thoughts.”

I replied quickly with this -

<< You asked what we are attempting to fix. - Provide a more consistent archery moose hunting experience for these very hard to draw once in a lifetime bull moose licenses.

In my opinion the current BGSS allowing the archery moose season fluctuations from 22 to 15 days of archery season is one issue. With my proposed changes archery hunting seasons would go from a minimum of 15 days to minimum of 19 days an additional 4 days, Yes, but less than 22 maximum which occurs already in some years. . Historic and future archery moose season

2012 8-30 22 days

2013 7-29 22 days

2014 13-28 15 days

2015 12-27 15 days

Future changes highlighted

2016: 9/10 – 9/25 15 days Start 9/6 -9/25 adds 4 days 19 days

2017: 9/9 – 9/24 15 days Start 9/5-9/24 adds 4 days 19 days

2018: 9/8 – 9/23 15 days Start 9/4-9/23 adds 4 days 19 days

2019: 9/7 – 9/29 22 days Start 9/3-29 adds 4 days 26 days

As you can see the only time the season would surpass the existing 22 day long max season is in 2019 (I have a long term fix for that before we get to 2019). We are not extending the season by 4 days longer than is already allowed in some cases based on the fluctuation of the calendar. In addition I believe this would be of no biological significance to the strong moose herds throughout the state but I will leave that to the professionals>>>.

I have not received a reply but hope to early next week.

Sandbrew

From: Treeline
04-Jan-16
Yes and +++ for Ron's suggestion.

The moose tags are allocated as a set number per unit without regard to method of take (archery, muzzle loader, rifle) and are basically once in a lifetime in CO.

Take a look at other states with moose tags and their season structures. Much longer seasons, no limit on method of take, and archery only time frames.

As limited as these licenses are, why not just have them as a license for the Unit and set up a staggered start of seasons? Start Archery the 1st of September, Muzzle Loader the 15th of September, and Rifle the 1st of October to the end of November. Archery could hunt thru ML and Rifle and ML could hunt thru Rifle. Seems way too simple...

From: Sandbrew
05-Jan-16

Sandbrew's embedded Photo
Sandbrew's embedded Photo
Update- I doubt this will get changed for 2016 but here is a DRAFT of what I hope to present. Comments please.

Sandbrew

From: Sandbrew
05-Jan-16

Sandbrew's embedded Photo
Sandbrew's embedded Photo
page 2

From: Chief
05-Jan-16
It will never fly, mostly because it isn't formatted like the "Citizens Petition Removing ML/Rifles" that's going on now.

From: xring
17-Jan-16
"I am cautious of making this a safety issue alone since that might leave the impression that bow hunters and muzzleloaders cannot safely share same seasons."

I think 2 dead bowhunters proves that to be the case. It's just a matter of time and there will be more imo.

I personally agree with Treeline's suggestion. Stagger the start dates starting 9/1 and keep it simple. Let bowhunters continue to hunt through all seasons.

As an aside to this topic, I also think archery elk/deer should be 9/1 to 9/30 every year instead of the "last Saturday in August" nonsense. There's no reason to start it or any other hunt on a Saturday, imo. A 9/1 start date might relieve some opening day pressure.

From: GF
17-Jan-16
"There's no reason to start it or any other hunt on a Saturday, imo"

Wild guess: You're not buying a $600 tag.

We call it pressure. To the state, it's not pressure; it's Revenue.

And if - like my brother, the schoolteacher - you have a job which doesn't allow you to take off whenever you want, that extra three-day weekend right up front is a really important hunting opportunity. If he were an out-of-state guy, there's just no way he'd even bother with it.

From: Sandbrew
17-Jan-16
Here's an update. I did not submit this for review with CPW for the last meeting. It would have been rushed and not fully discussed with the regional managers and biologists. I plan to email it soon so it can be properly timed for 2017. Sorry to all those that draw this year but there will be NO CHANGE in 2016.

I felt introducing this with proper timing allowed for the best chance for a positive outcome and opens the door for further discussion on making the entire moose season structure better for everyone in the long run.

Thanks for all the support and comments on this issue.

Sandbrew

From: sticksender
17-Jan-16
Thanks for the effort & for the update Sandbrew.

From: tobinsghost
17-Jan-16
Sticksender X2!

From: Sandbrew
13-Feb-16
UPDATE -

I did formally submit this for review with CPW and it will be discussed in the proper time frame in late 2016 for change in 2017.

Sandbrew

13-Feb-16
Deer season starting on 9/1 is a really bad idea that would screw a lot of hunters that want to hunt deer in velvet.

From: huntingbob
13-Feb-16
yes.

From: IAHUNTER
14-Feb-16
YES

From: Sandbrew
11-Nov-16
Hello all -

Here's the latest update. The petition to modify moose season start dates was reviewed by staff is on the agenda for the commission meeting next week on Lamar.

Unfortunately here is what I was emailed

"CPW staff had our internal regulation review meeting last week where we discussed your petition along with other potential regulatory changes. At this time, staff is not supportive of approving your petition. Staff felt that modifying the start date of the moose archery season was a season structure issue that should wait for the next season structure cycle. They did encourage you to bring this up during the next five-year review. Again,this is just staff's response. The Parks and Wildlife Commission still has the final say on whether to approve or deny your petition, although Commission Policy does state that season structure changes will only be made during the big game season structure cycle."

After I received this news I spoke with one the higher ups and was told there is a real reluctance to change any season dates outside the normal big game season structure cycle. As some of you may remember there was a tragic death in the overlap of archery and muzzle loader season and I've heard there is pressure to separate those season dates and this moose issue would set a bad out of cycle precedent. I feel pressing this issue now is not in the long term best interest of all future moose hunters. I asked that the petition remain on the agenda to be discussed at this next meeting and then tabled for the next big game season structure cycle.

I promise to keep after this and will make sure that the in the next 5 year cycle moose season dates will be better for all.

Thanks for all your support,

Sandbrew

From: grasshopper
11-Nov-16
Did you submit a citizens petition or did you ask staff to prepare an issue paper?

How long did it take to get to this point? the thread was started about 11 months ago.

Just curious how slow the red tape really is, as I asked for something similar although a citizens petition is for regulatory change and I am not asking for that.

From: Sandbrew
11-Nov-16
Grasshopper - As this thread illustrates the red tape very well. I filled out and submitted the issue paper pictured above in December 2015 by myself based on suggestions and feedback from others. I was told then that the January 2016 meeting would be to rushed to make the change for the 2016 brouchre and hunting season and I was told to wait until the November 2016 meeting for proper timing. I waited and now we all will wait.

The wheels of government turn very slowly. I won't give up on this issue. I will get changed. It just may take longer than we all want. Best case it gets discussed and rehashed in 2018-2019 season structure meetings and finalized for the 2020-2025 season structure. Only 5 years..... Could they make the changes sooner of courser they could. Will they? Doubtful.

Sandbrew

From: grasshopper
11-Nov-16
As my norwegian relatives like to say...ufda.

If it makes you feel any better I have been asking for a leasing based hunter access for 16 years.

Keep at it, and we can share stories in the assisted living facility.

  • Sitka Gear