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Instead of complaining about this I decided to do something. Please respond with a simple YES or NO first then comments so I can easily tabulate the results. This applies to Colorado residents and no residents I have sent the following email to a core group who hope to make this change happen in early Jan 2016 for 2016 season and beyond.

Sandbrew

I am writing to gather support for modifying the existing 2016-2019 Colorado archery moose hunting seasons outside the normal Big Game Season Structure process. I know this is not how the process normally works but this is simply a season start date change. This process is done administratively annually at the January CWC meeting with a simple red line change.

With moose license numbers on the increase statewide this change will help minimize the opening day crowding between archery moose hunters and muzzloaders moose hunters who have drawn these once in a lifetime licenses. Opening day dates coincided in 2015 and will be the case in 2016-2018. This overlap in 2015 produced some conflicts between archers and muzzleloader moose hunters targeting the same bull moose opening morning after a long summer of scouting.

My change request is simply - Start all archery moose seasons on the Tuesday after labor day from now on. A Tuesday start vs Saturday may produce less conflicts with other public land users. This change brings many of the premium species start dates in line with numerous bighorn sheep and mountain goat seasons currently starting the Tuesday after Labor Day.

MOOSE SEASON DATES -

Current Archery: first Saturday after Labor Day in September through close of archery deer & elk Change to start the Tuesday after Labor Day

2015: 9/12 – 9/27

2016: 9/10 – 9/25 Start 9/6 -9/25

2017: 9/9 – 9/24 Start 9/5-9/24

2018: 9/8 – 9/23 Start 9/4-9/23

2019: 9/7 – 9/29 Start 9/3-29

Muzzleloader: 9 day season concurrent with muzzleloader deer & elk 2015: 9/12 – 9/20 2016: 9/10 – 9/18 2017: 9/9 – 9/17 2018: 9/8 – 9/16 2019: 9/14 – 9/22

Rifle: 14 day season, fixed dates annually, first 14 days of October 2015 - 2019: October 1 - October 14, annually

Other Western states Idaho varies by unit Oct 1-14, Nov 1-14, Sept 15-Dec 1 many Aug 30-Nov 23 many Montana Statewide - Sept 15-Nov 29 Utah 2015 Sept 12-Oct 15 Washington Varies by unit Oct 1- Nov 30 most or Oct 1 - Oct 31 Wyoming Varies by unit Archery Sept 1 or Sept 14 until rifle opens Rifle - Sept 15- Oct 31 Oct 1- Oct 31 Oct 1-Nov 20 Nov 1-20

This year it was a mess. ML elk, deer and moose hunters were all over my three friends trying to bowhunt moose.

I would cut this part of the sentence out. It sounds self serving in so far as you're just trying to get first shot at moose instead of proposing a way to avoid conflict.

Perhaps add something about bowhunter safety in its place.

Archery and Muzzleloader season should continue thru the end of rifle season. As this is basically a once in a lifetime license (for Bull hunters) they should be given every opportunity to fill their license.

I was thinking the exact same thing as Idyl.

Has there ever been a unanimously agreed on Bowsite topic ever?

Rock - I agree 100% but I think that will be to much to attempt to tackle right now. That is in my "next steps" plan.

Sandbrew

It's early. ;-)

Up until Idyl posted about leaving out the

"targeting the same bull moose opening morning after a long summer of scouting"

I was taking a flat line on this thread and was not going to post anything. But with that statement left out I'm "IN".. so "YES"

Ed

Should I say "NO" just to break this monotonous agreement?

Nah! As a ML, bow and rifle hunter, I'll say YES!

There is no formal format for a petition so I'm thinking a simple 1 pager should get it done based on facts, comments and feedback from numerous sources. I was just looking for support from the general bowhunting public like all the fellow Bowsiter's who have commented.

I was told the CBA has discussed this issue and I have connected with the CPW Rep and I am waiting for some kind of letter of supportn from the CBA.

One moose outfitter called and thanked me for pushing this forward. He called the Colorado Outfitters President who I then emailed. The COA Pres has commented on my email that he likes the idea and will run it past the COA board. So far all green lights.

I see the issue some may have with this line "...targeting the same bull moose opening morning after a long summer of scouting." and I was leery of putting it in there at all. BUT - I am aware of at least 3 incidents of this happening this year alone when the season start dates overlapped. I think in at least 2 of the cases a longer range weapon ended up taking the bull in question while the archer watched. I am cautious of making this a safety issue alone since that might leave the impression that bow hunters and muzzleloaders cannot safely share same seasons. That could lead to unintended consequences of shortening bow seasons which I doubt any of us want. All I am asking is for a staggered start exactly like elk and deer season currently.

Thanks for the votes.

Sandbrew

So Yes for them also.

I kind of expected that type of overall response from this group.

Not unanimous but pretty good for 24 hours.

Rock - Thanks for gathering the CTAS support. If you have other comments you want included please email them to me.

I would like to summarize all this and have something formal to send to CPW and the CWC by end of day tomorrow.

Thanks,

Sandbrew

In the past, as the CBA/DOW Liaison, I contacted the 4 CPW Regional managers concerning many issues such as this for their opinion and advice/support.

I accomplished contacting the Managers prior any other CPW staff/ Commission member contacts as the managers do make a lot of recommendations that the Commission will follow. They always appreciated the heads up.

My best, paul

Patt Dorsey, Southwest Region Manager

Dan Prenzlow, Southeast Region Manager

Ron Velarde, Northwest Region Manager

Steve Yamashita, Northeast Region Manager

I have had discussions with the State Big Game manger but he did not offer a specific form.

I have this format and

CITIZEN-PROPOSED ISSUE PAPER Date:

ISSUE: DISCUSSION (FACTS AND FIGURES, EXPLANATION OF ISSUE):

WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE?

HAVE YOU COMMUNICATED WITH ANY OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES?

WHAT INPUT HAVE YOU RECEIVED?

ALTERNATIVES:

PLEASE INDICATE THE PROBABLE OUTCOME IF THIS PETITION IS ACCEPTED, AS WELL AS THE IMPACT OF ALTERNATIVES TO THIS PETITION: PETITION PROPOSED BY:

PETITION WRITTEN BY:

DATE SENT TO THE COMMISSION:

Petitions generally will fall into three categories: those that request reconsideration of Commission action that occurred within the previous twelve month period; those that are 8 presented in conjunction with a current rulemaking process; and those which are related to an action taken more than a year earlier. Petitioners should be prepared to submit complete documentation in support of the rule changes that are being proposed in their

If you would like me to review the petition when completed and prior to being submitted, please ask if you feel the needed.

I know you will do a good job. Paul

I have sent an email to the 4 regional managers.

John

John, thank you for your initiative, even if I may never draw a tag, the seasons should be separate, in my opinion...

Tom

I have gotten tired of waiting for a license for about 18 years so, in 2016 I will be hunting a bull moose in northwestern Manitoba.

Thanks for all the suggestions and votes. I took Paul’s advice and emailed the 4 Regional Managers and got this reply to my suggested change from one of the Regional Managers and I assume he spoke for the other 3 as well -

“This concern was just brought to our attention at the recent CBA coordination meeting last week. We discussed it and the consensus from CPW staff was that it was brought up during the 5-year season structure discussion and the determination was made at that time to keep it as we currently find it. I queried my fellow RM's as to if they have heard of any conflicts that they are aware of with the current opening day structure of archery moose. I realize that instances may not have been reported but none of them are aware of any conflicts. I wonder what we are attempting to fix.

The decision of course is not mine alone, so will leave such up to the other Regulation Managers but should an accommodation be made to move the opening date up to the Tuesday after Labor Day, I doubt there would be much internal support to extend the archery moose season for an additional four days as you suggest. Thanks for your thoughts.”

I replied quickly with this -

<< You asked what we are attempting to fix. - Provide a more consistent archery moose hunting experience for these very hard to draw once in a lifetime bull moose licenses.

In my opinion the current BGSS allowing the archery moose season fluctuations from 22 to 15 days of archery season is one issue. With my proposed changes archery hunting seasons would go from a minimum of 15 days to minimum of 19 days an additional 4 days, Yes, but less than 22 maximum which occurs already in some years. . Historic and future archery moose season

2012 8-30 22 days

2013 7-29 22 days

2014 13-28 15 days

2015 12-27 15 days

Future changes highlighted

2016: 9/10 – 9/25 15 days Start 9/6 -9/25 adds 4 days 19 days

2017: 9/9 – 9/24 15 days Start 9/5-9/24 adds 4 days 19 days

2018: 9/8 – 9/23 15 days Start 9/4-9/23 adds 4 days 19 days

2019: 9/7 – 9/29 22 days Start 9/3-29 adds 4 days 26 days

As you can see the only time the season would surpass the existing 22 day long max season is in 2019 (I have a long term fix for that before we get to 2019). We are not extending the season by 4 days longer than is already allowed in some cases based on the fluctuation of the calendar. In addition I believe this would be of no biological significance to the strong moose herds throughout the state but I will leave that to the professionals>>>.

I have not received a reply but hope to early next week.

Sandbrew

I did formally submit this for review with CPW and it will be discussed in the proper time frame in late 2016 for change in 2017.

Sandbrew

Here's the latest update. The petition to modify moose season start dates was reviewed by staff is on the agenda for the commission meeting next week on Lamar.

Unfortunately here is what I was emailed

"CPW staff had our internal regulation review meeting last week where we discussed your petition along with other potential regulatory changes. At this time, staff is not supportive of approving your petition. Staff felt that modifying the start date of the moose archery season was a season structure issue that should wait for the next season structure cycle. They did encourage you to bring this up during the next five-year review. Again,this is just staff's response. The Parks and Wildlife Commission still has the final say on whether to approve or deny your petition, although Commission Policy does state that season structure changes will only be made during the big game season structure cycle."

After I received this news I spoke with one the higher ups and was told there is a real reluctance to change any season dates outside the normal big game season structure cycle. As some of you may remember there was a tragic death in the overlap of archery and muzzle loader season and I've heard there is pressure to separate those season dates and this moose issue would set a bad out of cycle precedent. I feel pressing this issue now is not in the long term best interest of all future moose hunters. I asked that the petition remain on the agenda to be discussed at this next meeting and then tabled for the next big game season structure cycle.

I promise to keep after this and will make sure that the in the next 5 year cycle moose season dates will be better for all.

Thanks for all your support,

Sandbrew

How long did it take to get to this point? the thread was started about 11 months ago.

Just curious how slow the red tape really is, as I asked for something similar although a citizens petition is for regulatory change and I am not asking for that.

The wheels of government turn very slowly. I won't give up on this issue. I will get changed. It just may take longer than we all want. Best case it gets discussed and rehashed in 2018-2019 season structure meetings and finalized for the 2020-2025 season structure. Only 5 years..... Could they make the changes sooner of courser they could. Will they? Doubtful.

Sandbrew

If it makes you feel any better I have been asking for a leasing based hunter access for 16 years.

Keep at it, and we can share stories in the assisted living facility.

I have been quietly waiting for the next BGSS cycle to start and I reminded the State Big Game Manager and Regulation Manager about my petition via email before the last CPW Commission meeting last week. I will follow this to the end and expect season dates to change for the better for all future moose hunters.

Here is her reply-

Andy and I did not forget your petition. I will be bringing up moose season timing and length, as well as methods of take for moose hunting during my BGSS presentation in May. This presentation will be focused on gaining support from the Commission on a potential list of BGSS topics and the appropriate level of public involvement. We don't want to get too narrowly-focused at this point, but that should open the door to your suggestions for potential discussion. Thanks for the reminder!

Danielle M Isenhart Regulations Manager

Moose • Establishing an optional second rifle moose season to increase harvest in targeted areas of the state. • Allowing moose license holders to hunt any available moose season for their unit(s) with an unfilled license and using the applicable method of take. (citizen petition)

Sandbrew

Moose • Establishing an optional second rifle moose season to increase harvest in targeted areas of the state. • Allowing moose license holders to hunt any available moose season for their unit(s) with an unfilled license and using the applicable method of take. (citizen petition)

Sandbrew

Particularly with the following:

1. Overlap and timing of archery and muzzle loader hunting. This is not as big of an issue as all the rifle hunts now overlapping archery. Get all the rifle hunters out first, then figure out a solution for ML. I would be for leaving the timing as is and adding a week of archery earlier or later.

2. Moving the 28-day archery season to start in September. Might be a little better for elk, but totally sucks for deer hunting. Particularly with all the early rifle high country buck tags out there now. Would really suck and limit the time to bowhunt treeline mule deer even further.

3. Exploring options to address the growing numbers of hunters in archery seasons. This one is going to be a mess. Residents will end up getting limited along with Non Residents most likely. I would rather see 100% drawing for Non Residents with caps. Most other western states severely limit NR's, while Colorado residents allow CPW to keep overloading us with NR's. Why?

4. OTC options for ML elk and antelope will cause more crowding issues.

Moose

1. Establishing an optional second rifle season to increase harvest. This makes absolutely no sense. Increase the tag numbers and lengthen the season!

2. Allowing moose license holders to hunt any available moose season for their unit(s) during the applicable method of take. The season structure needs revision to eliminate the conflict with archery and muzzle loader. Start with Archery for 2 weeks, then Muzzle loader and Archery for 2 weeks, then Any weapon for several months. Hell, these are once in a lifetime tags! Hunt till you kill one. Start the season September 1 or even August 15 for that matter.

Bear: 1. Explore ways to increase bear harvest without affecting crowding such as creating multiple September RIFLE seasons or creating a bear combination licenses. This will increase crowding in archery season (not to mention the numbers of elk killed by a "lead arrow"). Rifle bear hunters are a plague in the archery season and there should be no rifle bear season in archery. For bowhunting, bear licenses should be statewide and OTC rather than unit specific. Archers would kill more bears without having to worry about getting shot by a rifle hunter and having some flexibility for where to actually shoot a bear.

Deer

Need a bullet to add a week earlier in Archery to give us at least a little more time before the gun hunters show up (unless the early rifle tags go away). After the early rifle seasons, those bucks are gone from the high country. Other states start mule deer seasons much earlier and also do not have overlapping rifle seasons.