Mathews Inc.
SCI challenge of Cali...... Update?
cougar
Contributors to this thread:
trkyslr 22-Dec-15
Db1 22-Dec-15
smarba 22-Dec-15
Db1 22-Dec-15
Bou'bound 22-Dec-15
trkyslr 22-Dec-15
Beendare 22-Dec-15
Bou'bound 22-Dec-15
Beendare 22-Dec-15
Bou'bound 22-Dec-15
Db1 22-Dec-15
Db1 22-Dec-15
IdyllwildArcher 22-Dec-15
TD 22-Dec-15
Bou'bound 22-Dec-15
WV Mountaineer 22-Dec-15
SDHNTR(home) 22-Dec-15
Dave 22-Dec-15
Beendare 22-Dec-15
Bou'bound 22-Dec-15
WV Mountaineer 22-Dec-15
SDHNTR(home) 22-Dec-15
Db1 22-Dec-15
B N A A guy 22-Dec-15
Drnaln 22-Dec-15
Matt 22-Dec-15
Drnaln 22-Dec-15
IdyllwildArcher 23-Dec-15
TD 23-Dec-15
Matt 23-Dec-15
Bou'bound 23-Dec-15
Db1 23-Dec-15
Bowkid 23-Dec-15
Beendare 23-Dec-15
BOWUNTR 23-Dec-15
Heat 23-Dec-15
SDHNTR(home) 23-Dec-15
Bou'bound 23-Dec-15
TD 23-Dec-15
wyliecoyote 23-Dec-15
Dave 23-Dec-15
Bou'bound 23-Dec-15
IdyllwildArcher 23-Dec-15
SDHNTR(home) 23-Dec-15
Skippy 23-Dec-15
Bowkid 23-Dec-15
Beendare 23-Dec-15
Genesis 23-Dec-15
TD 23-Dec-15
FullCryHounds 24-Dec-15
Dave 24-Dec-15
Dave 24-Dec-15
From: trkyslr
22-Dec-15
"SCI Challenges California Mountain Lion Import Ban in Federal Court firstforhuntersmountainlion2Safari Club International (SCI) filed a lawsuit in federal court on August 6, 2014, challenging a California law that bans the importation, transportation, and possession of mountain lions hunted outside of California. The California law, enacted in 1990 through a voter initiative, has discouraged hunters in California from hunting mountain lions in others states and countries. SCI’s members in California and surrounding states strongly encouraged SCI to challenge this misguided ban.

“For too long California has interfered with the hunting of mountain lions in other states by residents of California,” said SCI President Craig Kauffman. “Back in 1990, ill-informed California voters decided it was a good idea to take the management of this predator species out of the hands of the wildlife professionals. Not only did they ban mountain lion hunting within the state, but they went further and tried to impose on other states their misguided views on mountain lion hunting. The result was a harmful and illegal ban on the importation of mountain lions hunted outside of California.”

SCI’s main claims in the case are that the import/possession ban violates the U.S. Constitution’s Commerce Clause and Equal Protection Clause. The ban both infringes on interstate commerce without serving a strong local interest and discriminates against hunters who wish to import mountain lions as compared to hunters of other non-protected wildlife. SCI filed its lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of California (Sacramento). The two defendants are the California Attorney General Kamala Harris and the Director of the Department of Fish and Wildlife Charlton Bonham."

Any updates on this?

From: Db1
22-Dec-15
Called and emailed multiple times to SCI with no response. Latest I heard was the appeal was delayed. This is such a joke

Doug Burdin, SCI Litigation Counsel, at dburdin@safariclub.org

California’s Ban on Importation of Mountain Lion Trophies (SCI v. Harris) – Challenge to the constitutionality of a California law that bans individuals from importing and possessing trophies of mountain lions hunted outside of California. SCI claims that the California law violates the U.S. Constitution’s Commerce and Equal Protection Clauses. Status: SCI filed suit on August 6, 2014, and in response to a ruling from the Court, amended its complaint to further support our allegations. The State filed a motion to dismiss this amended complaint on June 17, 2015. SCI opposed the motion. The Court cancelled a hearing on this motion that was scheduled for September 28, 2015. We are awaiting a ruling on the motion.

From: smarba
22-Dec-15
I just read an article that it was delayed for something like the 3rd time as Db1 indicates.

I don't have it in front of me, so can't post the exact information. I think there was another cancellation of hearing subsequent to the Sept 28 indicated.

Pathetic, but good for SCI to be pushing the issue.

From: Db1
22-Dec-15
Actually just got a message back from Doug at SCI...

We are still waiting for the judge to rule on the second motion to dismiss. We hope to have that ruling in the next couple of months. Nothing has changed concerning the ban.

Doug Burdin Cell: 571-277-0266 Sent from my iPhone

From: Bou'bound
22-Dec-15
Not enough of an issue for anyone to invest the time or money in changing.

From: trkyslr
22-Dec-15
i hope it goes through. i wanna hunt mtn kitty bad!

From: Beendare
22-Dec-15
I would disagree with Bou.... his short sighted apathy is what is hurting sportsmen. "It doesn't affect me," until it does.

These changes in policy are rarely in big chunks. Look at the antis strategy to chip away at hunting rights. These legal issues BECOME laws partially through precedents...the antis know this. A good example is how they took the ban on bear hunting from Ca to Wash and Or.

It silly to think what happens in the worlds 11th largest economy California [or close to it] is never going to affect you. I hope this liberal nonsense doesn't sweep across the east coast......but until then banding together on every sportsmans issue is the smart strategy.

From: Bou'bound
22-Dec-15
Beendare,

I did not mention anything relative to me or any other individual. In the grand scheme of things this is not an issue that will attract the investment in time or money to address. You may disagree, but 26+ years of track record (the time that the law has been on the books) validates that.

Sportsmen got screwed on this one with no basis, but there are not enough people impacted to invest in changing it. At least there has not been in a quarter of a century, so I doubt a sugar-daddy group with money, or grass-roots organization with a passion to fight it, will pop up now.

If there was a law on the ballot to seize the guns of people in CA I think there would be enough money and support to address it, but that is not the case with whether or not a person can display a cougar in their home. Frankly there just aren't too many people relative to the 38,800,000 resident of the state who really give a crap.

If this was a big enough issue it would have been addressed.

Not sure why making a statement based purely on the role economics and support plays in the process warranted a personal attack citing apathy.

From: Beendare
22-Dec-15

Beendare's Link
Bou, you blew it off....just as many of the sportsmen across america blow these issues off thinking it will never affect them...until it does. All while the anti orgs band together as a unit to get a lot of these silly laws passed. They take advantage of hunter apathy...I bet less than 1/3rd of the members here even bother to belong to ANY sportsmans right org- sad.

Your cute "sugar daddy" crack illustrates your lack of understanding of what SCI does to protect/promote sportsmans rights across the country....easily researched on their 'in the crosshairs' page Link is to 'what we do' SCI page.

Its one thing to be mute and not support them.......but its a different issue entirely to make derogatory cracks about it.

From: Bou'bound
22-Dec-15
26 years

26 years

This is not a windmill that our advocacy groups are going to tilt at. It's just not relevant enough to enough people. Given limited resources I'm not even sure if I lived in CA and hunted cougars I would want them spending finite resources on. There are battles worth fighting and battles best not fought in deference to other battles. CA lion mounts in the home are in the small potato category and won't get any love.

that may not be fair but it is fact.

From: Db1
22-Dec-15
There is no doubt that CA sportsmen are facing an uphill battle. Been..is right, anti groups have aggregated people from all over North America to shut down hunting. CA is now threatened with limited to no hunting of elk as they push their wolf agenda. Who is pushing this agenda?? That's right a anti organization from Michigan. If sportsmen don't join together(regardless of which state you live) we are all in trouble. CA needs support from everyone around the country including groups like SCI, NRA ect..to help. This elk plan is scary and if it gets passed, deer and elk hunting in CA maybe history.

From: Db1
22-Dec-15
And bou, yes 26 years in has been. The problem is lion populations are hard to get accurate numbers on. But science hopefully will prevail at some point. More and more cat encounters are happening which is a good thing. Even folks in LA are now seeing lions frequently. Just a matter of time before people get fed up with so many around. This fight isn't and shouldn't be based on emotion, it should be based on science and facts. I still have my fingers crossed that a reversal will happen in my lifetime.

22-Dec-15
We're not going to get it repealed unless it's found to be unconstitutional. There's no way the voters of this state are going to take it back.

Bou, if you lived here, you'd think it was a bigger issue because it's not just hunting of cats. It affects deer, elk, and sheep hunting as well.

There's a lot of hunters in this country for whom eastern white tail hunting isn't even a blip on their radar.

From: TD
22-Dec-15
Disagree. If this is nothing to address.... then what is? Polar bear hunts and imports worth fighting for? That effects even fewer. Seems you've made similar statements about African hunting as well? Not worth fighting for?

This is the very definition of the chip... chip... chip away strategy. Take away the little things, where those who are effected are few. Others.... don't care, doesn't effect them.... so eventually we all lose. But these are things that can and should be rebuilt and strengthened. Take back some ground, not just some weenie defense to "hold them off" with the pessimism of "we are all going to lose this anyway... why bother...".

There are many orgs we can support if we don't personally have the time or means to lend to fight issues. NRA, P&Y, SCI, state orgs.... with enough support these orgs have done wonderful things.

These are exactly the things SCI SHOULD be fighting using the courts as our enemies use them. I think they could have a case WRT interstate commerce. That no one has chosen to fight from that angle for however many years means nothing. A good many older laws have been overturned on Constitutional grounds that have been on the books FAR longer. All it took was a few people with the heart and will to take the fight to them and win it.

Apathy and ambivalence NEVER fix anything, only justifies the decision in the mind and heart to look the other way.

From: Bou'bound
22-Dec-15
I never said what should happen or if it was right only that it would not be resourced against. I never said I did not care or that we as hunters should not care.

I said this will not garner support in a meaningful way. period.

debate all you want what should happen, what is right, etc. that does not change reality. the reality is this is bad for us but it is delusional to think it will be addressed.....in a meaningful not superficial way..........which was the original point of the original post.

I wish we could fight every teeney weeny issue that was out there that impinged on our rights, but am I am rational enough to know that that is not how this thing we go through called life works

22-Dec-15
SCI is a great group. Not just a sugar Daddy group. If you aren't a member, maybe you ought to join those that have given resources to make these little things worth fighting for. Because we have got to make these battles worth fighting for. If we do, other organizations such as the NRA will join. All of a sudden, it doesn't look so minuscule does it?

There are two groups, regardless of your politics you should belong to as hunters. SCI and The NRA. Period. They fight the fight.

God Bless men

From: SDHNTR(home)
22-Dec-15
Teeny Weeny my ass! This is a big 'fing deal! Yes, I want to kill a cat and display it in my home, but that's not the point. It's the constitution people. Ike got this right. IMO, it has little to do with cats or no cats, and everything to do with interstate commerce. If you care about this country and what makes it great, you'd look beyond this specific issue and examine the bigger cause it represents.

From: Dave
22-Dec-15
Bou, your ignorance and apathy are the root of the problem for hunters and sportsmen as a whole. You think because it doesn't affect "you," it's not worth fighting. It's a domino effect. The M.O. of the anti's is to divide and conquer and you've nicely fallen right into their trap. Wonder how you'll feel when bowhunting is targeted because of its "inhumane" way that it kills an animal leaving it to suffer and dies a slow death? Guarantee you it's just a matter of time before those jackarses claim that. How you gonna feel when the rifle hunters say it's not worth fighting because bowhunters are a small minority? Guys like you are unbelievable.

From: Beendare
22-Dec-15
TD, that could be one of the best posts I've seen on an internet forum kudos bruddah.

Using your logic Bou...there are many wars that shouldn't have been fought and games that need not be played as we already know the outcome.

Kudos to SCI for reopening the debate. The ugly truth of lions in Ca is starting to creep out. Kids getting dragged away from a group of hikers in LA...many others having potentially deadly encounters that never make the papers. Signs at most of the TH's to watch out for lions are typical in our area.

My buddy recently got read the riot act by a Ca GW for taking a photo of the lion that killed his pet goat right on his front porch after the state trapper with hounds came in and caught it 400yds from his house. The F&G does not want this information getting out. That houndsman has killed something like 36 lions in the last few years right in that local area.

A buddy with a ranch above Vacaville said they caught 30 lions in one 5 mile long canyon bordering a huge residential population. The deer population is just starting to come back from almost nothing as these cats just wipe out the deer.

Anyone with a modicum of wildlife knowledge understands you cannot just manage for one species...but that is exactly what they are doing. The import of lions is just a silly penalty on hunters.

Yeah, maybe it is time to reopen....As mentioned above, the best defense is an offense....but its hard to play with only 1/3rd of team!

If the sportsman across america banded together instead of whining, "Some of those guys shoot a rifle....or some shoot HF animals, and instead banded together we would have one heck of a voice.

My take on SCI- I'm proud to be a member...and i'm as DIY as they get. I've been on 3 guided hunts in my lifetime...one HF shoot. I'm not going to even discuss whether guided guys are less of hunters....they are HUNTERS. I could care less if some big money guy wants to shoot HF animals....it doesn't matter, I want those guys on our side as some have 100x the power and influence of a Beendare or Bou...

I've seen guys like that chunk down $100,000 on a good cause and or leverage their business contacts getting meeting with top gov officials to help our cause.....yep, I want those guys on our side.

They didn't get to where they are in life without knowing the difference between a DIY elk and a HF ranch- they know it and we know it.

So why rub their 'sugar daddy' nose in it...unless its to make yourself feel better? The way I see it you are in...or you are part of the problem.

From: Bou'bound
22-Dec-15
"Bou, your ignorance and apathy are the root of the problem for hunters and sportsmen as a whole. You think because it doesn't affect "you," it's not worth fighting."

Never said that..........I think because it doesn't affect "a material population" the fight will not be undertaken in a truly meaningful way by those that undertake such things on a selective basis by using some risk and reward assessment on where to deploy resources and funding.

26 years have passed and nothing has been done there. I don't think it will happen now.

just because you don't like reality does not mean that reality will not happen.

SDhunter you said "This is a big 'fing deal!"

Really, for more than a quarter of a century not one iota of progress has been made to repeal CA Prop 117 so if this is the attention and results that a "big 'fing deal" gets in the hunting world I would hate to see how we fare against lesser issues that are not such big 'fing rallying points.

So if it is as you say a "big 'fing deal" nobody is treating it like one.

22-Dec-15
Guys, read his last post real good and understand what he is saying. He isn't the enemy. He isn't saying anything but what he has said all along. And, he is correct.

That's what makes this such a good opportunity. Win or loose, it is more than we have had in the recent past. I commend SCI for taking the task and would hope we all would join them in support. It is stuff like this that makes me proud to be a member. God Bless men

From: SDHNTR(home)
22-Dec-15
Bou, you missed my point, as have most with regard to this issue. Again, it isn't about hunting, it's about the US Constitution, the law of our land. If that's not a big deal to you I'm sure there is a slow boat to China departing somewhere...

From: Db1
22-Dec-15
I agree that this is a constitutional issue with regards to the importing of lion parts into the state. But I see this also a wildlife management issue and using hunting to create state revenues and control predator populations. Regardless, this law is flawed from the top down and we need as much help as we can get. Until SCI showed up, I don't recall any other group doing as much to help with this battle

From: B N A A guy
22-Dec-15
To be fare to this argument, there have actually been several attempts over the last twenty or so years to deal with California's cat issue and get it resolved. I know that to be true as I have even signed a couple of petitions in years past to attempt to get it back on the ballot by very organized groups with decent funding and size. The problem comes from the other side having literally a no limit budget to what they will throw at any plan to hunt Mt. Lions here in the States or allow any part of one. For the record I am a lifelong Californian and have had this same talk with lot's of folks over the years. From the bleeding heart liberal who is completely misinformed and actually thinks California's Mt.Lions should be an endangered species to people who are open to hunting along with State trappers ( one who is a very good friend ) and many in between.

Unfortunately we will never be able to hunt cats again in California but our hope should be in the actual fight that SCI is taking on to allow a legally harvested Lion from another State to be allowed in a hunters trophy room. As it sits right now legally we aren't allowed to possess any part of a mountain Lion no matter what. Their is a special permit one can apply for in a Museum type situation but it is incredibly difficult to attain.

Hopefully we can at least get to a point where we can take a trophy Tom in another State and be able to enjoy it in our own home if we can provide legal documentation.

Good thread everybody. Keep fighting the good fight and Merry Christmas!!

From: Drnaln
22-Dec-15
SCI dropped the ball on the Lion issue in California many years ago! 1rst...I'm a SCI member & Official Scorer for them...SCI should have fought this from day one but it took years before they took up the fight. I argued with them over this issue for a long time!

But now, they are going to bat, again, for us hunters & I'm hoping for the best outcome possible. All hunters, no matter where they are from or what they hunt, should pay attention & support this issue!

If California would have banned the importation of all Wild Sheep into the state, SCI & many other organizations would have been in the fight ASAP! This lawsuit means a lot to every hunter in the country! David

From: Matt
22-Dec-15
"We are still waiting for the judge to rule on the second motion to dismiss. We hope to have that ruling in the next couple of months. Nothing has changed concerning the ban."

"Not enough of an issue for anyone to invest the time or money in changing."

One of these statements denies the other.

From: Drnaln
22-Dec-15

Drnaln's embedded Photo
Drnaln's embedded Photo
My driveway last night! David

23-Dec-15
"26 years have passed and nothing has been done there. I don't think it will happen now."

But something has happened. SCI has filed a suit. That's something.

You guys are being a little hard on Bou. He's just playing Devil's Advocate and explaining it as he sees it. No reason to jump down his throat just cause you don't agree with him.

From: TD
23-Dec-15
Actually this is where WE employ the chip, chip, chip away strategy.

The legal challenge at hand is importing perfectly legally taken trophies from other states into CA for personal possession. That makes it an interstate commerce issue. That the vast majority were bought and paid for and receipts shown in evidence MAKES it commerce. (Another reason "hunting should not be commercial" is a bad position) The way I understand it, states cannot ban products or personal property from other states without showing cause, undue harm, etc. And that bar is pretty high, seeing the precedents set in cases you would think were a stretch to put it kindly.

That these trophies ALL will have been certified legally taken in another state or even federal import permits given from other countries blows their argument of cover for the possession of illegally taken trophies out of the water. There are and can be legal papers to prove so. They certainly have no evidence of any kind of endangered population. The state itself kills a good many due to OVER population.

Not uncommon for these challenges to be stonewalled and appealed until they reach the high courts, sometimes the highest courts in the land. That is how it is done, honestly this is taking the path that many if not most Constitutional challenges must take.

This is NOT being taken on as an issue of reopening a legal sport hunt of mountain lions in CA. Only that you can have legal possession of a trophy legally taken in another state and brought home for personal use. But it is a step. It is taking back some battleground that had been lost.

If this is won.... on to the next... ya never know if you give up and never try....

From: Matt
23-Dec-15
"You guys are being a little hard on Bou. He's just playing Devil's Advocate and explaining it as he sees it. No reason to jump down his throat just cause you don't agree with him."

The fact that there is a case that was filed that is currently in front of a judge directly refutes the assertion that it is "not enough of an issue for anyone to invest the time or money in changing".

It's not that we disagree with him, it is the facts that disagree with him.

From: Bou'bound
23-Dec-15
semantics aside, type the words "YES" if you believe that things will return to pre-Prop 117 status in the state of California by, oh, say, the year 2036.

no need to state why or why not. Just "YES" if we have any takers on that position.

Anyone?

From: Db1
23-Dec-15
Ok yes! I believe we're going to see more attacks and possibly some people killed by cats. Then public will learn that the state used to make money selling lion tags, and they will learn that the state kills more cats today then when hunting was allowed. Just now it cost tax payers money as opposed to making money. So I have hope... Not everyone in CA is a fruitcake and most non hunters listen to logic.. It's about education. So I'll say yes.. Hope I'm right

From: Bowkid
23-Dec-15
Bou, That is kind of ridiculous. Knowing the facts every member enrolled in this site that is not a troll would say YES.

Reality, Eventually SCI and whoever joins them will get the importation situation fixed on grounds of Interstate Commerce. It will be a LONG road and more than likely be dragged out kicked and passed along until the 9Th circuit rules on it.

We will never sport hunt Lions in CA again. The political climate here just won't allow it.

BTW- I have heard that if you try to declare a Mountain Lion at the agg station no one will touch it. No arrest, and everyone just looks the other way because they do not want to be involved in trying to prosecute the law. BUT it is still not legal, and Im not suggesting anyone try it.

From: Beendare
23-Dec-15
Well one of our chapter members Mark is on the legal team...and not to feed Bou's negativity but they are fighting an uphill battle with the liberal anti hunting sentiment of gov and even the commission itself.

Remember, it was one of our pro hunting F&G commission members that resigned over killing a lion in Idaho and was replaced with a non hunter. Its a mess. I know for a fact SCI is lobbying hard to change that at the commission level.

I do think there is a chink in the Antis armor with lions. The F&G knows there is huge problem. Its only a matter of time until someones kid gets completely eaten out on a trail and the antis chant of, "Its their park, we are just visiting" will go unheeded by the public.

Its for this reason SCI is continuing to push the issue in court. When all of the info comes out they can say, "We have been trying to tell you for years"

Personally I think an additional effort should be directed a little differently and I'm working on that...put it this way...if the truth of what a problem these lions are ever comes out....the tide will change.

From: BOWUNTR
23-Dec-15
I jumped on the band wagon, joined SCI, written questions, interview with some attorney back east... then nothing. No returned emails, phone calls... if I were a bettin' man, I'd say it will get dismissed and they will keep chipping away at our freedoms.

I did fix my problem though. I moved across the state line to AZ and have reunited with my lion. You can also buy lion tags over the counter here... imagine that... Ed F

From: Heat
23-Dec-15
I'm firmly on the side of the guys from California on this one.

Keep up the good fight Bruce and others!

From: SDHNTR(home)
23-Dec-15
Again, this is not about lion hunting. We'll never see that again here in CA. SCI knows that and that's not the fight they are taking on. This is about the importation issue of lions killed elsewhere and their parts or trophies brought here. Two very separate things. The ban on importation is patently unconstitutional. This is the battle SCI has taken on, and one they stand a very strong chance at winning if they can actually get a judge to hear the case.

From: Bou'bound
23-Dec-15
Had they not tried to do this in the past 25 years? Is this a new tact they are taking to address the importation injustice?

From: TD
23-Dec-15
False premise to start with Bou. Once again, this isn't about pre-Prop 117. Nor hunting lions in CA.

This is about personal possession of legally taken trophies, meat..... bringing products from other states and countries, across state lines.

And it effects not only CA residents but guides and outfitters, F&G depts and other logistic markets in other states, countries even, where cat hunts are perfectly legal.

As mentioned above, this is NOT a state wildlife management, game commission or F&G matter. It is a Constitutional matter, Constitutional rights. My guess is it is being stonewalled because it very much has a legal point and has grounds to be appealed to higher courts, all the way to the top actually.

From: wyliecoyote
23-Dec-15
I am a solid "Ditto Ditto" on everything Beendare has written...I do get Bou'bound's attempts to look at the problem pragmatically using history as a perspective...but unfortunately his words, although mostly accurate, will only serve to lessen sportsmans involvement and willingness to fight and support the various groups doing their best to protect our passion for hunting. No matter how uphill the battle is....we hunters need to encourage, not discourage......When I married my high school sweetheart 51 years ago...the pastor didn't talk about the historic 60% divorce rate..he spoke of the wonderful blessings a marriage can be !!

Joe

From: Dave
23-Dec-15
For the record, ANY fight against the left-wing wacko anti's is one worth fighting.

From: Bou'bound
23-Dec-15
TD I know that. that was part of the law from Day 1 26 years ago. Not a newly added amendment.

nobody woke up recently and said "By Joe I can't have a legally taken cougar part in my domicile"

Did people not address this before today, is this a new approach to an old injustice.

23-Dec-15
As far as I understand it, yes.

From: SDHNTR(home)
23-Dec-15
Yes, Bou. No one has taken this to task until now.

From: Skippy
23-Dec-15
What Dave said!

From: Bowkid
23-Dec-15
Basically we have all been living with the importation ban since prop 117.

I know that for the past several years there has been a movement towards the challenge that SCI is currently working on based on Interstate Commerce.

Prior to that I am not aware of anything filled directly addressing importation alone which is the portion of the law that is patently unconstitutional.

From: Beendare
23-Dec-15
Its nice to see so many positive sportsmen taking interest in this....

.....of course its not all about one small issue in one corner of the continent....its about stopping the antis in their tracks.

I know guys like Wyliecoyote have devoted significant time and effort to fighting for sportsman...thanks Joe!

I think he would agree, the fight would be a lot easier if we all participated a little bit.

From: Genesis
23-Dec-15
Grant,for gosh sakes at least change your handle to "Coubound" for a year to pitch in....

From: TD
23-Dec-15
"When I married my high school sweetheart 51 years ago...the pastor didn't talk about the historic 60% divorce rate..he spoke of the wonderful blessings a marriage can be !!"

huh,

Mine tried to talk Coach out of it...... =D

Congrats on 51.... that's a long time. I'll have 40 in, um, sometime next year....

24-Dec-15
I lived in CA. 26 years ago and fought 117 along with several others. But we were outnumbered and the ads that the antis put on TV were horrible and an outright lie. It passed 52-48%. One of the things 117 also did (and this is another part of the illegal importation ban) is that a tannery in CA. cant even accept a lion hide from another state to tan it and send it back. It is clearly unconstitutional and this is why SCI is fighting this.

There are 3 national organizations that every Hunter should be a member of because these three groups are doing the most to protect what we all love to do. NRA,SCI and USSA.

From: Dave
24-Dec-15
"There are 3 national organizations that every Hunter should be a member of because these three groups are doing the most to protect what we all love to do. NRA,SCI and USSA. "

I agree 100%. It's unfortunate that we have to spend a portion of our hunting budget on organizations with enough clout and balls to stand up for our rights legally and fight these battles in the courts. But it is the reality of hunting in the 21st century and will continue. I never felt the need to join any of these organizations until several years ago. Now, I see the importance and realize that, without them, my money spent on other organizations might just end up being spent on habitat that I might never be able to enjoy because the anti's have turned it all into game preserves by eliminating hunting altogether. I would encourage everyone to take a hard look at what these organizations do for preservation of our hunting heritage and seriously consider at least becoming a member, if not donating more like I do. If every hunter was a member of these organizations, the money that they would have to fight these battles would be extremely helpful and I see it as the least I can do since I'm not able to show up on the Capital steps and protest every piece of absurd legislation like the loser anti's do.

http://www.sportsmensalliance.org/membership/individual-membership/

From: Dave
24-Dec-15

Dave's Link
For those unfamiliar with USSAF.

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