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Tips to reduce grasses in clover plots
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
nutritionist 01-May-16
drycreek 01-May-16
Sapcut 01-May-16
nutritionist 02-May-16
elkstabber 02-May-16
drycreek 02-May-16
elkstabber 04-May-16
shortstop 04-May-16
nutritionist 05-May-16
From: nutritionist
01-May-16
So many people post how they have grass issues in their clover plots. Here is my talking points and tips to reduce that.

1) Planting clovers on soils with a pH below 6.0. You might see some initial germination but your growth will stunt and you won't see a vigorous thick stand.

2) Not using enough fertilizer. So many people just put an initial application of fertilizer down but they overlook the important early fall application of potassium that is needed. A huge amount of potassium is mined from the soil by legumes. A good indicator of nutrient use of forages is looking at the nutrient content of those forages. Clovers and alfalfa run 2-3% potassium. You need 200-300 units of potassium every year on your legumes.

3) planting UNINOCULATED clovers. How many of you know if the legumes in the seed your buying is inoculated. When i ask this question in person, i typically get the same kind of look from people. Ask your supplier, don't assume. You need all of your legumes to be inoculated with the CORRECT inoculant.

4) Not having enough PURE LIVE SEED spread or drilled on the plot. Know the species your planting and know the correct seeding rate. If your broadcasting instead of drilling, you want 20-30% higher seeding rate than if your drilling. If your using coated seeds, look to see if 35-50% of the seed is coated. I always tell people to plant at least 20% higher if your using coated seeds.

5) Not planting a companion crop. In the mass builder mix i sell, i use berseem clover. Berseem is fast growing and helps keep weeds at bay. Also the deer prefer it over many forages and they will consume berseem first, allowing the slower growing clovers time to establish. Some people use oats or pea/oat blend as a nurse crop.

6) Poor seed to soil contact. I always talk about a first hand account of this out on Grandpa Ray's farm. My uncle didn't beat a rain and didn't roll some of an experimental plot for me. I got 1/2 it done myself and there was very little weed pressure and a more vigorous growth on the rolled plot. The plot unrolled had much slower germination and as a result, weed issues that i had to deal with.

7) Not overseeding every year. Most farmers in the grazing community know the value of frost seeding or spinning seed every year to fill in the thinning spots in a field. You might only need 1-3 lbs of clover seed per acre every year to overseed. You might have a clover plot last 10-15 years if you continuously do all you can to keep a plot thick.

8)Not clipping. Clipping your plots right before your weeds produce seed heads, will reduce new weed growth in the future. Very few graziers spray for weeds and there is no reason to have to spray for grasses if you follow all the steps i have posted above.

9) Poor preplant prep work. You want to spray with glyphosate using ammonium sulfate. Spray with 1.5-2 quarts per acre instead of 1. Some grasses like quack grass will not have effective kill at the standard level. You want to spray when the weeds are actively growing and at a decent air temperature. Then work the ground and you might need to roll the soil before broadcasting the seed. Then rolling a second time. If you bury the seed at depths of 1/2 or more, you will get slow germination or poor germination, which will lead to weeds getting ahead of the legumes.

10) Germination count and weed seed counts on the tag of seed you buy. So many people don't look close at tags. If your buying seed with a low germination count, you won't have a thick stand. If the seed contains a higher amount of weeds, your going to have more weeds to deal with in your plots. There are very few growers in the US and each grower will have various lots of seed and there is a discount for seed that isn't as high of quality. I am not one of those companies that buy up poor quality seed.

My 2 cents...

From: drycreek
01-May-16
Very good info John ! I've planted clover quite a bit but I still made a rookie mistake last fall on one plot. The ground was hard and dry and I was in a hurry, so I didn't take the extra time to disc the clods up well, so I wound up with a rough seedbed. I got about a 30% stand, and you know what filled the voids. Now, it's so dang wet I can't get in there with a tractor to spray or mow. It's on the place I have for sale, so I'm gonna wait until I can spray and mow, and then overseed it this September and hope it works out.

From: Sapcut
01-May-16
To reduce grasses in clover plots.....?

Simple....Do not put any nitrogen fertilize on it. Nitrogen makes things grow. Legumes make their own nitrogen. More nitrogen equals more weeds and grasses.

From: nutritionist
02-May-16
There is nothing wrong with putting a low level of nitrogen on a clover plot. Clovers don't fixate much nitrogen initially and perhaps the clovers people are seeding aren't inoculated. Case in point. A huge tip many of my clients do is use ammonium sulfate at 50 lbs per acre per year on their food plots. 81% of the soils in many areas of the US are sulfur deficient. It takes sulfur to help convert nitrogen. It sweetens your forages and reduces "stunted growth" on low sulfur soils.

Yes, you would get some nitrogen down but it's the sulfur benefit you will see a huge response from.

Second point, not all fertilizer suppliers people out there buy from have fertilizer with no nitrogen. 5-20-20 or 8-13-28 might be all they have that has lower nitrogen. It won't harm you. You might need to mix a 5-20-20 with 0-0-60 if that meets what your soil test says, but that low amount of units of nitrogen applied will have no harm.

Yes, you really shouldn't feed the weeds with high amounts of nitrogen and potassium is your biggest focus on the legumes.

From: elkstabber
02-May-16
Nutrionist,

My soybeans have been lacking recently. The first two seasons they grew well but not the last two. Should I suspect a lack of postassium?

From: drycreek
02-May-16
Good catch on the fertilizer John. To get no-nitrogen fertilizer I had to buy a full pallet. Took me three years to use it all, but my supplier was kind enough to store it for me so it wasn't too bad. I find that availability of bagged fertilizer in specific mixes are the biggest pain in the butt for me. My soil test couldn't care less what my fertilizer requirements are ! Most of the time I just get as close as I can.

02-May-16
elkstabber, check your PH and lime if needed, and inoculate your soybeans right before you plant. Soybeans really like Potassium so if you apply 150# of 0-0-60 can help. I plant just shy of 1000 acres of soybeans a year so I could tell more about what their needs are for ag production, but I will keep it simple for food plot reasons, good luck

From: elkstabber
04-May-16
Thanks SouthernILbowhunter.

From: shortstop
04-May-16
Mowing regularly will help keep clover ahead of grass, not forever, but helps delay the grass takeover.

From: nutritionist
05-May-16
For those who have soybeans or crops showing deficiency symptoms here is also 1 service i offer. You can scissors cut samples from a field and send them to me. I will analyse them using plant tissue analysis and can even custom mix your own foliar plant foods to correct your current growing season problem.

Elk....

Even if people put down fertilizer, there are issues that come into play as to the response to any fertilizer. Soil organic matter levels, heavy rain falls, soil microbial activities. But the biggest issue people have is low soil pH. This is why people need your pH to be around 6.5. If people plant soybeans on ground that is 5.0 pH you will only get around 50% of the use of the potassium fertilizer you put down. If your pH is 5.5 that number is slighly over 72%.

Even if people soil sample your fields, an issue can also be how people sample your fields. A sample is only as good as the one taken.

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