3Rivers Archery Supply
Maine Moose Drawing
Moose
Contributors to this thread:
Zim1 02-Jun-16
Bow Nut 02-Jun-16
IdyllwildArcher 02-Jun-16
Bow Nut 02-Jun-16
DonVathome 02-Jun-16
Zim1 02-Jun-16
Bow Nut 02-Jun-16
charlie wilson 02-Jun-16
spike78 02-Jun-16
Bou'bound 02-Jun-16
Squash 02-Jun-16
Zim1 02-Jun-16
IdyllwildArcher 03-Jun-16
Bow Nut 03-Jun-16
PAstringking 03-Jun-16
ilandhunter 03-Jun-16
Zim1 03-Jun-16
IdyllwildArcher 03-Jun-16
Squash 03-Jun-16
IdyllwildArcher 03-Jun-16
Zim1 04-Jun-16
sticksender 04-Jun-16
Squash 04-Jun-16
IdyllwildArcher 04-Jun-16
Bou'bound 04-Jun-16
Bow Nut 04-Jun-16
bb 04-Jun-16
Zim1 05-Jun-16
bb 05-Jun-16
IdyllwildArcher 05-Jun-16
bb 05-Jun-16
Zim1 10-Jun-16
BC 10-Jun-16
ilandhunter 11-Jun-16
Squash 11-Jun-16
Phil/VA 11-Jun-16
spike78 11-Jun-16
Zim1 11-Jun-16
stickman 11-Jun-16
car 11-Jun-16
willliamtell 12-Jun-16
IdyllwildArcher 12-Jun-16
grizzlyhunter 12-Jun-16
Ungie01201 13-Jun-16
CWD2006 13-Jun-16
ilandhunter 13-Jun-16
bigbuck 13-Jun-16
Squash 14-Jun-16
Mainer 14-Jun-16
Ungie01201 14-Jun-16
Quinn @work 14-Jun-16
Zim1 15-Jun-16
Squash 15-Jun-16
Zim1 16-Jun-16
hurricane 16-Jun-16
Zim1 16-Jun-16
Ace 17-Jun-16
hurricane 18-Jun-16
backstrapper 20-Jun-16
CWD2006 22-Jun-16
spysar 09-Jul-16
Ace 09-Jul-16
IdyllwildArcher 09-Jul-16
Julius K 09-Jul-16
spysar 11-Jul-16
From: Zim1
02-Jun-16
Maine moose drawing getting close, June 11th. Who's in and how many points you have? NR here with 17.

From: Bow Nut
02-Jun-16
I'm trying!!!! I bought 20 points this year plus have 2 from failed attempts. Not very hopeful but I'm trying every year till I get one or die. Whatever happens first

02-Jun-16
I'm in. But the Maine moose lottery is kinda like that show "Who's Line is it Anyways?"

Everything's made up and the points don't matter.

From: Bow Nut
02-Jun-16
Archer , very true!!! I have several buddies in Maine that try every year but I think there's been two tags between the 5 of them . I love bear hunting in Maine and def love the state in general but once I've handled my next few scheduled hunts, I have a feeling I'll be headed to Canada or Alaska long before Maine

From: DonVathome
02-Jun-16
NR 40 points been applying about 15 years.

From: Zim1
02-Jun-16
Well with their convoluted system I guess I'm actually awarded 60 points which is max for a NR. Didn't buy any of those ridiculous 10 packs. Supposed to amount to ~5% chance to draw if I calculate right. But who knows with all the 10 packs.

From: Bow Nut
02-Jun-16
100% correct zim. If you're lucky enough to draw as a nr go play powerball the same day!!!! However I basically use any excuse to go to Maine but I've shot enough blackies... There anyway. And being as there's like 11 deer in the whole state, moose is a must try

02-Jun-16
Drew in 2014 after 31 years so I'm still on the sidelines. My wife and son have there names in the draw. Hoping for tag but am realistic about our odds.

From: spike78
02-Jun-16
I am in. I have heard of people drawing in 9 years and others in 15 and 30 so to me it sounds like the point system is a farse.

From: Bou'bound
02-Jun-16
Agile back the nonresident odds were one in 85 people. Once in 85 years in other words. How old are you and how long do you plan on living ???

From: Squash
02-Jun-16
I drew last year after 14 years. With 30 bonus points . Met a hunter from NJ while there, and he drew the first year, with $250+ worth of chances. We both killed Bulls over 40". Good luck to everyone.

From: Zim1
02-Jun-16
"Met a hunter from NJ while there, and he drew the first year, with $250+ worth of chances."

Is this a joke of a system or what? I've heard far too many stories like this. Maine legislators suck.

03-Jun-16
It is kinda lame.

That said, I buy a 10 pack every year because I figure I have to to keep up with everyone else that does it too.

From: Bow Nut
03-Jun-16
I will say if you can get past the bs and acquire a tag there are def some big boys in the allagash. There's not been 1 time that I've been there bear or dear hunting that I haven't seen a bute!!!

From: PAstringking
03-Jun-16
Also had a friend who bought $1000 worth of chances.... And didn't draw.

From: ilandhunter
03-Jun-16
Maine Moose raffle, not lottery

From: Zim1
03-Jun-16
This year Arizona took my 15 preference points and poof......magically turned them into bonus points, stealing a lock tag I would have drawn this year and extending my wait 10 years. That tag typically goes for ~$25,000 on the open market. So Maine has plenty of company when it comes to stealing from the public.

Every year I look at my points and try to guess what state is eying me up to screw next.

03-Jun-16
In 10 years, it'll take 30+ points to draw an archery elk tag in CO unit 61 and the NW units.

These systems were largely created between 1987 and 2002. Excluding the group of people who started playing the game when they were created, in the time since, most new NR point builders started doing so in their mid-to-late 20s or early 30s as far as I can tell from interviewing people - and that only makes sense because that's usually when people have the financial stability to start plunking down the money for apps and can afford out-of-state hunts.

When that age group starts to see that the wait for trophy tags is at or after an age where they might be too old to handle the hunt, then the money-faucet that is NR apps will dry up.

I predict that all of these preference point systems for tags where demand greatly outstrips supply will eventually all change to bonus point systems or will have some sort of change.

CO will most likely be one of the first to make a change like AZ because they're one of the farthest along, simply by nature of when their system was implemented. WY and CA have the benefit of not having been created as early so they have more time before the SHTF.

CO has some options: they could add a random % like WY that would kick the can down the road for a short time. They could go all draw, forcing all the people who hunt OTC to choose between hunting and building points, which will also kick the can down the road, or they could switch over to a bonus point system, which will screw over a bunch of people who were getting close to their desired tag.

This is all inevitable in every state with a PP system: CO, WY, WA, OR, and CA. Utah may also eventually change its system.

In the end, the only way to really have a system that's healthy long term is a system like Nevada or Idaho. The states will have to pick eventually.

From: Squash
03-Jun-16
Could be worst, could be like KY elk lottery, no bonus or preference points. Celebrities seem to get elk tags there with no problem. The company I work for manages several thousand acres of timberland in the KY elk zones. They receive several tags each year, and they fetch $6000 - $10,000.

03-Jun-16
Well, I listed ID, which is a pure lottery. IMO, a pure lottery is better than a PP system. PP systems just reward the few who get in the first year that the system is around at everyone else's expense. At least in a lottery everyone has a chance.

IMO, NV's system is the best in the country.

From: Zim1
04-Jun-16
"at everyone else's expense"? So the old timers who have contributed money for decades and waited for decades, and who's bodies degraded while they waited, you view as capitalizing on newbies who have contributed nothing and not waited any time in line? Do you know some of these newbies weren't even born when I began contributing and waiting?

I could definitely live with Nevada's system in Maine! Except throw out their outfitter welfare quotas. If they did these things, my odds would skyrocket and I'd be out of everyone's way in no time! But money & history tells me the Maine legislators won't do the right thing.

From: sticksender
04-Jun-16
As the cost of applying in all these states continues to escalate, and the wait for tags gets longer and longer, I think we'll see more and more guys dropping out of these gambling schemes, and simply purchasing the hunts they most want. That route, as opposed to the "apply everywhere and pray" approach, is actually starting to look like the better bargain, with each passing year. Motivation and proper planning can overcome any deficit in ability to pay.

From: Squash
04-Jun-16
The other alternative is to spend $4000 and go to NFLD .

04-Jun-16
Zim, first off, I believe that those who have "put in" longer should have a better chance. Which is why I like NV's system.

But in any draw system where demand greatly outstrips supply, PP systems are total bunk because there's no such thing as "waiting your turn" when there aren't enough tags to go around to just wait your turn.

If you extrapolate over 80 years, the general lifetime of most people, eventually, everyone's going to have been the person to have put in a long time and some will come up empty. The PP system rewards only those that are lucky enough to get in year 1. No matter how long they put in for, they'll have a lifetime of better odds than everyone who comes afterwards. That's why these PP systems are broken.

Sheep and moose tags are a good example. Someone (multiple people) has to go without.

Good example, here in CA: We have less than 20 sheep tags/yr. 75% of tags go to max points holders and 25% to random which the max point holders get put into if they don't draw in the PP round.

Max points right now is 13 or 14 points. There are about 10 thousand people who put in every year for sheep in CA, but only 2 thousand of them have max points because they got in the very first year.

This year, there are 17 sheep tags and 10 will go in the PP round and 7 in the random round. Because less than a dozen guys come out of the max point pool every year by drawing, the max point pool never diminishes. These guys will enjoy better odds for their entire lives even though many of them will never draw.

So you've got 2 thousand guys that have 1 in 200 odds at a sheep tag in the PP round and then join the others for a 1 in 1000 2nd chance in the random round. And they'll get these odds till they die while the rest of us "might" get to the bonus round one day in our 80s. Under this system, this one age group of men will enjoy far better odds their entire lives and people who will eventually be "oldtimers" who've also done the time and spent the money will never receive that benefit.

I have 5 sheep points in CA. In another 10 years, I'll have more points and have put in for a longer period of time than the guys who are putting in this year. But I'll STILL be playing with 1 in 1000 odds while they continue to enjoy a 1 in 200 odds draw, followed by a 1 in 1000 draw.

So yes, when I say they enjoy better odds "at the expense of everyone else," it's because these PP systems are a ponzi scheme. If you think anyone "earns" any tag, you're deluding yourself if you think that's fair in any case other then when there are enough tags to eventually draw a tag - and in many cases there are. I'll draw a CA deer tag this year with 4 points. I did my time and I'm happy to draw my tag when I know I'll draw it. But that's the only time that PP systems work: when there's enough tags to go around. When there isn't, then PP systems are an utter failure and reward one age group of men at the expense of everyone else.

And Squash, that's not an alternative for me. I have zero desire to hunt guided. That alone takes that option off of the table for a guy like me and there's many other guys that only hunt DIY because that's how we hunt. What is more, I go on 6ish hunts per year. Going on a guided hunt is an option for people who go on one big hunt a year and do the rest of their hunting at home. I rely on drawing tags or else it's DIY OTC, which in general, are the least desirable hunts to go on for most people.

From: Bou'bound
04-Jun-16
Time is more valuable than money.

From: Bow Nut
04-Jun-16
X2 bou!!! Although I'm in the drawing it's only till my scheduled hunts are done. At that point I'll spen the money to go elsewhere . I own a business so I have a habit of putting an hourly rate on everything.

From: bb
04-Jun-16
Arizona's system was never intended to be a PP system, It was always a bonus point system.

Maine...I'll just drive through on my way to Newfoundland.

From: Zim1
05-Jun-16
Arizona would not have changed the true bonus point system they had 10 years ago had they not intended to. It didn't happen by accident and they aren't stupid. They did intend for it to be a preference system for the better units until this year. To call it anything else is inaccurate. Why they made it so complicated is a mystery. No need for that! Perhaps to confuse applicants to continue new investors?

If they did not "intend" that last change to convert tags to preference, then tell us why they made any change at all. They had a true bonus point system prior to that.

From: bb
05-Jun-16
What did they change 10 years ago? it worked the same way as it has for the last 20 years, , non residents were still drawing premium units with less than max points. You are naming it a pp system, AZ isn't.

05-Jun-16
For NRs it essentially was a PP system for certain units because all the tags went to only the top point holders.

I agree with you Zim, either change it and leave it or don't change it or you're going to screw people, like you. You certainly did get hosed. It remains to be seen how badly, like I said (you could draw next year and a 1 year wait wouldn't be so bad), but IMO, they should have foreseen this when they made the bonus pass and decided if that's what they wanted or not.

Maine, well, there's no lack of foresight there. The multiple 10 pack change was just an unabashed money-grab.

From: bb
05-Jun-16
Edit...Maine Moose thread.

From: Zim1
10-Jun-16
Well we will know tomorrow.

From: BC
10-Jun-16
And neighboring state NH is June 17th

From: ilandhunter
11-Jun-16
Results are up... no luck again this year

From: Squash
11-Jun-16
Any winners ?

From: Phil/VA
11-Jun-16
No luck here.

From: spike78
11-Jun-16
No luck here either.

From: Zim1
11-Jun-16
No. Getting closer to Montana elk leftover every day. Based on their governor's taking a solid stand on supporting public land I am happy to support them this year.

From: stickman
11-Jun-16
No luck here

From: car
11-Jun-16
Nope not me.

From: willliamtell
12-Jun-16
Bupkus. One of these years I am going to take a summer road trip to use all the fishing licenses I pick up for different states each year.

12-Jun-16
Nope.

12-Jun-16
25 years and no tag again....

From: Ungie01201
13-Jun-16
I don't even bother anymore... it's like hitting powerball.

From: CWD2006
13-Jun-16
After 18 years I pulled a bull tag for zone 7.

From: ilandhunter
13-Jun-16
Congrats CWD

From: bigbuck
13-Jun-16
in since day 1 and still nothing!!!

From: Squash
14-Jun-16
Congrats CWD

From: Mainer
14-Jun-16
Maine resident...year #35 wasn't my lucky year...maybe next year I will draw the golden ticket.

From: Ungie01201
14-Jun-16
Awesome CWD!!!! Good luck!

From: Quinn @work
14-Jun-16
Congrats CWD!!! If you don't mind, how many chances did you purchase? Guys like you unfortunately have me keep sending my donations to Maine. I have about the same amount of points as you did.

From: Zim1
15-Jun-16
"After 18 years I pulled a bull tag for zone 7."

Congrats. Bet you're glad your legislators finally canned the 10 pack point peddling for residents and quit devaluing your 17 points! Wish they'd quit throwing the most invested nonresident sportsmen under the bus as well.

From: Squash
15-Jun-16
Applying for 18 years yields more than 17 bonus pts.. I applied for 14 years and drew last year with 30 bonus pts..

From: Zim1
16-Jun-16
Hahaha oh ya!...........but only in Maine's convoluted, watered down raffle system!

From: hurricane
16-Jun-16
CWD - Way to go!

If you're going DIY, I'd be glad to share some District 7 moose info.

From: Zim1
16-Jun-16
Jay, you have any friends or family draw? CWD should hookup with Southern Maine Outfitters to put the smack down on another stud bull!

From: Ace
17-Jun-16
No go for me in Maine or NH, again!

From: hurricane
18-Jun-16
Zim, yup my friend from Caribou drew a September bull in District 3. Heading up to lend a hand, not that he needs it(pretty savvy fellow in the moose woods).

From: backstrapper
20-Jun-16
30 bonus points and 10 pack later and still not even a glimmer of hope!

From: CWD2006
22-Jun-16
There's some confusion about the point system. This year I had 60 points. That gave me a 50/50 chance of pulling a tag. Take a look.

http://www.maine.gov/ifw/licenses_permits/lotteries/moose/#bonuspoints

Because of my work schedule, I decided to hire a guide. I'm going with Matt Tinker (Green Farm Guide Service) Matt lives in the zone and spends the year guiding in the zone.

Thanks for the luck...

From: spysar
09-Jul-16
I drew after many years trying. Heading to zone 2 in Sept with a bull tag!

From: Ace
09-Jul-16
Congrats Spy, that's awesome. Are you taking your bow? They should be rutting pretty strong then, good chance to call one into bow range.

Congrats and Good luck to you too CWD.

I hope you guys take a lot of pics and will consider a semi-live hunt or keep a journal and write it up when you get home.

Always like to read the story.

09-Jul-16
Grats spy - heck of a tag. Hope you have a great hunt and tell us about it after :)

From: Julius K
09-Jul-16
Zone 2 will be a lot of fun!

From: spysar
11-Jul-16
Thanks. I might take a gun and a bow. I'll be calling. I'll take lots of pics and video.

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