Sitka Mountain Gear
US Fish and Wildlife Gone Mad...Serious?
Moose
Contributors to this thread:
kota-man 09-Jun-16
Fulldraw1972 09-Jun-16
kota-man 09-Jun-16
APauls 09-Jun-16
No Mercy 09-Jun-16
JusPassin 09-Jun-16
Pat Lefemine 09-Jun-16
liv4it 09-Jun-16
hunt'n addict 09-Jun-16
Franzen 09-Jun-16
Amoebus 09-Jun-16
Amoebus 09-Jun-16
Amoebus 09-Jun-16
APauls 09-Jun-16
Butternut40 09-Jun-16
Zackman 09-Jun-16
Pat Lefemine 09-Jun-16
kota-man 09-Jun-16
Zackman 09-Jun-16
Jodie 09-Jun-16
kota-man 09-Jun-16
Pete In Fairbanks 10-Jun-16
razorhead 10-Jun-16
Glunt@work 10-Jun-16
BigOzzie 10-Jun-16
elkstabber 10-Jun-16
Arrowflinger 10-Jun-16
bsbowhunter 10-Jun-16
Mad Trapper 10-Jun-16
Huntcell 10-Jun-16
Jodie 10-Jun-16
razorhead 10-Jun-16
Squash 10-Jun-16
IdyllwildArcher 10-Jun-16
rodb 10-Jun-16
19X 10-Jun-16
Labby 11-Jun-16
HDE 11-Jun-16
Woods Walker 11-Jun-16
Z Barebow 11-Jun-16
From: kota-man
09-Jun-16
The US Fish and Wildlife petitioned last week to put the moose (yes, I said moose) on the endangered species list. Apparently, they feel the "subspecies" of moose in ND, MN, WI and MI arent' doing "well" and need to be protected. Are you fricking serious? These are Canadian Moose for God's sake.

The Moose in ND are doing fine, but as you can see by the ND G&F release, the ND moose, (though part of the petition) were not really part of the study.

Is it a coincidence that the moose aren't doing well in MN, Wi and Mi and they are the three states with wolves? ND has no/very few wolves. Hmmm...These guys are CRAZY.

Here's the ND Game and Fish news release:

Game and Fish News June 9, 2016 USFWS Says Moose May Warrant Future Protection The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has announced that a subspecies of moose found in North Dakota and three other states could warrant federal protection. The finding opens a full status review by the USFWS to determine whether moose could be listed under the Endangered Species Act. State Game and Fish Department officials emphasize the finding merely initiates a status review of moose in the Upper Midwest, and it will not affect any current state regulations in the foreseeable future. The announcement concerns the population of the moose subspecies found only in the Midwest, including Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin in addition to North Dakota. Jeb Williams, Game and Fish Department wildlife division chief, said the Department will be providing data to show that the state’s moose population has been doing quite well for years. Williams mentioned if data on North Dakota's moose population had been considered in the petition's finding, it's possible the state's moose population would have been excluded from the process. “This can be a long and confusing process, but North Dakotans need to understand that nothing will change in the interim and we believe our moose population will continue to do well,” Williams said. Currently the state’s highest moose densities are found in the northwest, while numbers in what was once considered traditional habitat in the Turtle Mountains and Pembina Hills, remain low. Overall, the statewide population is stable to increasing. North Dakota held its first moose hunting season in 1977 and 10 licenses were made available to hunters. The season has run uninterrupted since then. For 2016, the Game and Fish Department allocated 202 moose licenses, up 70 from 2015. The Department continues to monitor moose that die from causes other than hunting, to determine any effects of disease and to gain a better understanding of why they died. In addition, a three-year moose research study is ongoing in the Kenmare area and on the Missouri River bottoms southeast of Williston. The research is focusing on annual survival, cause-specific mortality, reproduction rates, annual and season movements and home range use, as well as seasonal habitat selection.

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North Dakota Game and Fish Department 100 N. Bismarck Expressway, Bismarck, ND 58501-5095 Phone: 701-328-6300 Email: ndgf@nd.gov

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From: Fulldraw1972
09-Jun-16
I guess since mn hasn't had a moose season in what 3 or 4 years now they don't know how to manage them. Interesting is mn spent something like 2 mil to study the decline of moose in mn. They had every excuse there was for declining moose numbers. The one they wouldn't point the finger at is wolves. Interesting thing is after the first year. Wolves were the number 1 cause.

What a joke I say.

From: kota-man
09-Jun-16

kota-man's Link
Here's a related story (see link). I guess it is "climate change" that has resulted in the moose decline...jeez...

From: APauls
09-Jun-16
ND moose numbers in areas up against our MB border remain low. (Turtles, Pembina Valley) That's because as soon as they cross the border there is a large segment of the population that doesn't need tags and kill unlimited moose with moose being their primary focus.

The province of MB which is practically one large piece of ideal moose habitat has moose moratoriums throughout the province in any area you can drive to. Coincidence? Wolves are bad, but there's something out there even worse, and it's complete unrestrained human "harvesting." Be happy you don't have that issue.

From: No Mercy
09-Jun-16
Insanity at its finest. I'm enraged right now

Apauls-the Elk pretty much kicked the moose out of the Pembina area also.

And yeah. Climate change. Lol. These Antis will use every excuse they can muster up.

From: JusPassin
09-Jun-16
Lunacy to allow any sub group of humans to have unlimited harvest rights for anything. Sheer stupidity. What we don't do in the name of political correctness.

From: Pat Lefemine
09-Jun-16
Not a conspiracy theorists but I am convinced that the USFWS has been co-opted to drive both an anti-gun and climate change agenda and that's frightening.

Look at all the decisions from polar bears to lions to wolves and now this? Decisions are political, not scientific.

From: liv4it
09-Jun-16
My parents have place in North Dakota. 10-12 years ago it was rare to see a moose. Now they see them daily. They love it and they are fun to watch. Kind of intimidating when you walk out the front door and a moose is standing there. As far endangered, no way. It is great there is an opportunity to hunt them and that needs to be kept going. Sounds like another F&G scheme pushed by animal rights activists living in New York.

09-Jun-16
I think it was 1 or 2 years ago the MI NDR was talking about a moose season because population levels were near the point that could support them. BTW - SCI was the organization that helped organize, push, and partially fund the moose re-introduction here in MI back in the 80's.

From: Franzen
09-Jun-16
Decisions are certainly political. This is a government entity we are talking about, right?

Simple answer if they would like to see moose have a better chance at thriving is to allow/increase wolf hunting. Wolves may not be the only reason they are struggling in certain areas, but undoubtedly one of them. The species as a whole is fine, thus this idea is simply a bullshit way for the USFWS to run errands for the political and leftist elite.

From: Amoebus
09-Jun-16

Amoebus's Link
Article about the ND moose from 2013.

Sounds like the ND moose are leaving the traditional haunts and moving to the prairie.

From: Amoebus
09-Jun-16

Amoebus's Link
And a good presentation (from the last major study - finished in 2007) of ND moose.

From: Amoebus
09-Jun-16
"Not a conspiracy theorists but I am convinced that the USFWS has been co-opted to drive both an anti-gun and climate change agenda"

Good thing you aren't a conspiracy theorist. Imagine what that would look like!

The USFWS took the gray wolf off of the threatened/endangered species list in 2011/12 and it was a court order that put them back on it.

From: APauls
09-Jun-16
I've hunted in the prairies in Alberta, and Saskatchewan and there are moose everywhere in the fields. It's insane. Last year my dad got drawn for a sask whitetail tag where I didn't and 2 of the 3 full days he hunted he counted over 50 DIFFERENT moose. The other day they saw 35 moose and on the 4th day when they left at 9am by that time they had seen 11 moose. He knows they were different moose because they didn't cover the same country twice in a day, and moose don't exactly move far per day in late November. We're talking almost 150 moose in just over 3 days. Some fields would have 15 moose on them. (Granted, they weren't 150 different moose, but you get the drift)

In MB, some of the places you will see moose is in large sections of private land in ag fields. Seems they are beginning to adapt to the prairie lifestyle, it would be exciting if they do well.

From: Butternut40
09-Jun-16
In one study, NE Minnesota, involving collared moose calves, 67 percent of the mortality was due to wolves. Not to mention the calves that were abandoned by the mother because of the collaring. Not too hard to figure out.

From: Zackman
09-Jun-16
Another example of all you liberals in North Dakota Cory. Just like changing the name of the fighting soiux...

Better be careful, next thing you know people will be retiring from North Dakota to come to the conservative state of California.

From: Pat Lefemine
09-Jun-16
One thing was very clear to me when I interviewed Trump. They will not tolerate this PC nonsense with the USFWS.

From: kota-man
09-Jun-16
Zack...If this were CA, we would officially no longer be able to possess a moose head! Our Dall sheep and Musk Ox aren't doing so well either, maybe they need to go on the endangered list...

From: Zackman
09-Jun-16
It's a sad fact that as our state (and other large ones like it) goes, so does the rest of the country. It is only a matter of time before everyone catches up. The political fights we fight everyday here in California are coming to a "red" state near you very soon

From: Jodie
09-Jun-16
This is simply Liberalism, pandering and the face of the antihunting future.

If you voted for Obama, or will vote for Hillary, blame yourself.

From: kota-man
09-Jun-16
It will be awhile before ND "catches up" Zack. Our kids still get the first day of deer season off as a school holiday! :)

Zack for president...

10-Jun-16
FWS was once a well-respected conservation-minded agency. Now they are little more than another activist environmental/animal rights group. Little (if any...) respect for hunters/trappers who have paid the bill and carried the freight for years.

FWS still bases their decisions on science, but these days it is POLITICAL science.

For anyone to suggest that their decisions are based on conservation or biology is just plain dumb and belied by the obvious.

Pete

From: razorhead
10-Jun-16
you haven't seen anything yet, wait till Hillary makes appointments.....

In northern Wis and western UP, seeing a moose is rare and a cool thing,,,, everyone knows, we will never have a season, just something that shares our woods.....

WHAT IS KILLING MOOSE IN OLD GROWTH FORESTS,,,,, and of course predators out of control....

I would not be too smug in ND,,,, you just never know

From: Glunt@work
10-Jun-16
Its not just the USFW. I took the kids to Kennedy Space Center last weekend. Amazing place, went to a lunch with one of the shuttle astronauts. I was very close to walking out of the IMAX movie about seeing earth from space. It was heavily biased regarding man-made climate change.

From: BigOzzie
10-Jun-16

BigOzzie's Link
We are seeing similar articles in MT. The global warming, brings out a midge or parasite that is killing off moose, with no absolutely no mention of wolves.

I see moose an average of 6-10 times a summer on my place.

Last summer I had wolves den on the place, I found two moose skeletons and saw only one moose 5 miles west of my place.

This year so far no sign of the wolves, and I am seeing 4 different moose regularly.

I know it's not a scientific study, but it is a simple equation, wolves = no moose, no wolves = more moose.

problem was wolves turned out to be smarter than me and I didn't fill my wolf tag. grrrr.

oz

From: elkstabber
10-Jun-16
I was glad to see that the MT newspaper from BigOzzie above was fairly balanced. Toward the end of the story the writer gave credit to hunters for funding the research. I wish all media treated hunters this way.

From: Arrowflinger
10-Jun-16
It is very obvious that the US fish & Wildlife are not working for us. And haven't been for a long time.

From: bsbowhunter
10-Jun-16
This same thing happened in California this year. With pressure from our enemies "CBD" they wanted to eliminate the Elk season, because they said they were "Declining"! Luckily CaF&W had already been in the process of updating the Elk studies required and were able to tell them to pound sand, the herd is improving! What the CBD was really tryng to do was two things: 1 elimante hunting if they could 2 try and promote the need for using elk for food for the newly reintroduced Wolf pack! Since the deer are not going to last that long.

This whole thing makes me sick, as it is all political maneuvering now to try and find that weak spot, then they attack. I really believe we need to stay united and keep the communitcation going as soon as anyone hears of this sh*t going on, so we can make our voices heard!

It's only going to get worse :(

From: Mad Trapper
10-Jun-16
If I were King, everybody at USFW and the IRS would be looking for a job. And I would be just getting started. No doubt unemployment would spike initially.

From: Huntcell
10-Jun-16
Wisconsin does not have a moose population or should I say a manageable moose population. Any moose seen in Wisconsin are generally labeled transient from Michigan. There is no current or proposed plan to manage a breeding population in Wisconsin most often stated reason is due to the high prevalance of brain worm that is most often fatal to moose. The whitetail deer is a sub-host to the brain Worm but is unaffected. Because of the high whitetail deer densities it would be next to impossible to have or sustain a viable moose population. There is no reason to put a specific classification to moose in the upper midwest as according to the worlds leading authority on moose Valrius Geist, genetically speaking there are only two species 'old world' and new world' species any other names are just a localized name due to slow westward movement of scientiest and there naming agenda. If you exchange a group of moose from any of the current listed supspieces habitat to the anothers habitat in 3-4 generations they would be size and color as the exchanged group the current new world supspecies designations only reflects localize habitat difference not actually animal differences.

From: Jodie
10-Jun-16
There was a recent article in a northern Wisconsin newspaper stating that making the moose "endangered" in Wisconsin and other states is currently under review.

From: razorhead
10-Jun-16
There was also a movement that was in the paper, and I am sure it will be the same for Wis, and MN, but in the western UP, the Center of Biological Diversity, is calling on a moratorium of logging, (and this is what this is all about), to save the moose......

they are too stupid too realize, that for a moose to thrive, it needs a younger forest, so it can eat......

I tell you, its going to get crazy,,,,,,

From: Squash
10-Jun-16
And the moose herd in NY is growing, nearly a 1000 animals now.

10-Jun-16

IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo
IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo

From: rodb
10-Jun-16
There's an article in the Outdoor News/Minnesota that talks about the moose decline and one of the reason, of course, was global warming. No where in the article did they talk about Isle Royal and the moose population boom there. Apparently Isle Royal has a different climate than the upper Midwest.

From: 19X
10-Jun-16
Politics boys.. Only one way to stop it and that is Trump. Like him or not if Hillary gets in this will be BAD.. Live in CA and we need TRUMP BAD..

From: Labby
11-Jun-16
World gone mad. Don't identify the problem just make up a bunch of potential issues. We would not want to offend the Wolves in MN. I thinkbtheyvhave and action group howling for wolves or black wolves lives matter. Maybe Al Gore can step in and help. Being from MN I can't believe how the MN DNR has made an abortion out of the northern deer herd, Millacs lake, pheasant population and our once very solid moose herd. Sorry for rant

From: HDE
11-Jun-16
What would be cool is if everyone had enough money stashed away to where we could all quit our jobs. No more income, no more (high) taxes, no more huge government. That would de-fund the large bureaucracies indefinitely within one month's time.

Yes, if Hillary gets elected, life as we know it will be over as the Republicans are going to lose one, if not both houses of Congress. She will choose her very liberal and progressive judge and the noose will then tighten. All is left is for her to pull the trap door lever.

From: Woods Walker
11-Jun-16
You put the government in charge of something and then get upset when they FUBAR it? LOL! What'd you expect?

Politics VS Science....Politics wins everytime.

From: Z Barebow
11-Jun-16
If climate change is the cause for moose decline, I would like someone to explain why moose are doing so well in North Central/NW ND. The North central area has very few trees and is full of potholes/cattail sloughs. Known for producing ducks and not shade.

NW ND is where I grew up (For a lack of better description) I always thought the river bottoms would be good moose habitat, but never thought I would see the day when this part of the state produces more moose than any other part of the state.

Again, the general weather in that part of the country is very hot during the summer and minimal shade. If their dark coats were a problem, every moose out there would be medium well by late August.

As far as numbers, I know of guy who was seeing 5 times more moose on his hunt in ND than he did on his Alaska float trip. (Albeit much smaller moose) But the point is moose definitely aren't endangered in ND.

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