First off, most broadheads are about $40 for 3. Wow! I know in the overall cost of the hunt, this is very small, but let's face it -- $13 for a knife of sorts that might just be used once is too much. Demand is obviously good, and all of must be OK with paying this much.
QUALITY -- For that price, the broadheads should be scary sharp. Period. Every blade/Every time. Most are not, no matter what the package says or the brand name.
What happened to packaging? Many broadheads used to be packed in a sensible foam container of sorts that one could open easily/quickly and where the blades or head did not rattle about. This one really gets me. For $40, add another 50 cents and package these things safely. One of my tests heads protruded through the poor box it was packed in by the manufacturer (a highly regarded archery company). Of course, that further dulls the head.
For what its worth, Slick Tricks are sharp and are packaged fairly well. I am probably going to use HellRazors simply because for me they fly so well. Alas, I will have to touch them up as they do NOT arrive sharp enough, even for $40.
The old thunderhead 125 packaging was great -- small box, blades in separate tiny box, and ferrules stored in a nice foam container, no rattling.
I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
Killing an animal cleanly with a head that I put the edge on with my own hands and skill is a very personal connection. When I sit down and prepare to eat a deer steak from a deer that I butchered and killed with a head that I sharpened is just as much a part of the hunt for me as being in the woods.
I do agree with you on the Thunderheads. Well packaged and probably one of the sharpest out of the box heads I've seen.
I also think the old TH's were equally as outstanding as their packaging. I still use them...or should say use them again, as I went to another brand for several years after switching to carbon arrows, then returned to my former favorites after physical problems caused me to lower my draw weight a few years ago.
I do hand sharpen all my blades before using them for hunting, although the TH blades were probably "sharp enough" out of the box, if there is such a thing.
The TH blades are easy to remove and sharpen to real shaving sharpness using a sharpening system with the stones mounted on plastic carriers that have stiff wires sticking out that are captured in slotted guides. I use that system to bet to a decent shaving edge, then strop them by hand while still clamped in the system's clamp, against a piece of cardboard with polishing compound rubbed onto it.
I then give the hardened steel tip of the ferrule a few strokes from a hand held stone to finish the job.
They have always given me great penetration and excellent flight.
And they're still available from Eders for $34.85 for a five-pack.
My go to BH today has the ferule separate from the blades, the blades come in a separate container and are razor sharp, no need to touch them up. All I do is touch up the tip more out of compulsiveness than anything else. They are pkg'd for four and priced like three packs normally are.
I use either G5 Strikers or Wasp Hammers, and I have zero problems using them out of the package. Each time I do my part, they do theirs.
I lost two javelinas last January, but it wasn't the heads' fault. I am quite sure I would have found both any place that wasn't as thick as that S. Texas brush. That said, next time I hunt javelina, I will use a good, wide-cut mechanical.
I switched to Dirt Nap DRT's this past year and have been very happy with them.
Never considered the packaging point till you mentioned it. They do have their own space in plastic that I find to be pretty safe...and the only company I've seen that offers a lifetime replacement warranty. Pretty easy to sharpen too.
Good Luck! Warren
The last month or so before the season starts I shoot nothing but arrows tipped with the broadhead that I'll be using. Bowhunting is an endeavor full of "Murphys" as it is, so I leave as little to chance as I can.
If you feel that you need to sharpen them yourself that's cool too but it doesn't change the fact that we should be getting the best quality out of the box for those prices.
They came packaged as you described, blades secure in their own package, ferrules also individually secured in shrink wrap. I have owned and evaluated fixed bladed BH's from a multitude of other manufactures prior to choosing the Wasp boss BH's and none were made better and a scant few were as sharp, and my Wasp Boss BH's are scary, hair-popping sharp. In short well packaged, excellent BH's.
I agree BH's (as well as just about ALL archery gear) is getting ridiculously expensive bordering on IMHO, insane.
If you don't want to sharpen - go with a replaceable blade one and keep a set of blades for practice, but always put on new ones before hunting.
As for cost - Quality will cost, and I don't consider out of the box blade sharpness quality. Being manufactured with a steel capable of being sharpened and retaining a sharp edge is quality along with being able to withstand serious impact and still cut/penetrate.
While it's definitely not for everybody, I find it kinda therapeutic and satisfying to put that razor edge on.
As for cost today...YIKES!!! I used to "retire" my kill arrows...today, not so much :^).
After guiding bowhunters for several years I wish others would do the same, even if you think your bow and arrows are well tuned, that does not necessarily mean that will impact the same. We'd have hunters shoot there BHs before a hunt and more often then not they did not group with the Field points.
As for the price, I agree but it depends, some heads are well worth that, others absolutely not.
I wish my life was that simple!
1 - enormously talented 2 - incredibly patient 3 - just showin' off
I haven't messed around with a lot of different heads, but those two are well beyond "adequately sharp" as far as I'm concerned.
I do like the idea of having a few of my own fingerprints on the heads, though... Thinking to switch over to Ace and learn to get those up to spec. Can't complain about the price of 'em, and no sense worrying about how sharp they are right out of the package if you're going to hit 'em with a file straight off anyway....
But don't think of those "butter knife" edges as "dull" - they're just ready for customization to whatever edge angle you prefer.
I will personally sharpen every BH before I put it in quiver for action.
If you know a broadhead shoots well and spins true, shouldn't spin testing that same brand/model broadhead be just as good from that point forward, or is shooting them every year just cause a guy likes to tinker around?
If a broadhead manufacturer can't hold tight enough tolerances to where spin testing will suffice, I wouldn't buy those broadheads, regardless if they cost $5 or $35 each.
I bought a new bow last fall and had not shot a broadhead off it until a month ago. Same brand and model of arrow, only a target and not hunting, and different bow than last year and the broadhead flew true like a field point; first, second, and third shots. This tells me if you buy a quality head, doesn't matter brand, and your bow is in sync (tuned), you won't have any surprises.
I shoot every arrow/BH before hunting then touch them up popping sharp. I never want to have a situation where I assumed the hunting arrow would fly perfect- this way I know for sure that arrow assembly, spine-everything that can go wrong with a hunting arrow- hasn't....they fly perfect.
What can happen if you don't?....a bad arrow....maybe your arrow flys right......you just don't know for sure.
As for broadhead coming Sharp and the cost. Well American made is going to cost more. I am in the sharpen every head before I hunt category. My go to broadhead is a VPA. If I am not mistaken they don't put a scary Sharp edges on them due to increased cost. I could be wrong though. As easy as they are to sharpen it don't bother me.
That's why when I put the BH on an arrow, I spin it. If it wobbles, something is going on. No need to shoot it. If it spins true, no need to shoot it because of proven track record with that head. What else could cause the arrow to fly wierd? Spine alignment? Maybe. I don't worry about spine indexing anymore and do not have problems. Just lucky I guess.
Once you have settled on a quality head and if you want that little "extra" sharpness then buy a small pair of needle nose vice grips and make a small leather strop.
I re-sharpen Spitfire and ST blades, first on a Lansky knife sharpener and then a few strokes on a strop. New blades just get a few swipes on the strop.
Ed
Very true. And I think many people use the term "shaving sharp" pretty loosely.
It's a holdover from our childhoods when boys would sit around with our prized pocket knives and shave patches of hair from our arms. Much revered was the owner of the arm with actual hairless notches on it!!
Something in our "manly" dna that makes us desire admiration from other men. And proclaiming to have shaving sharp instruments is a sure way to invoke envy.
As far as packaging, I don't care one was or the other - I just want them sharp. I put them on arrows or in my own carrying container anyway.
Having said all that, I keep buying Slick Tricks, because they come razor sharp, and because they consistently fly straight out of my set-up, allowing me shoot them with confidence - without having to sharpen or test shoot every one of them. Worth the cost for a little peace-of-mind and no hassle.
I don't hesitate to shoot at a grouse, dirt clod or tuft of grass while I'm out hunting and I just touch it up back at camp. I beat one straight with a rock (I mmmmmmmissed) on a javelina hunt, resharpened it and made kill with it.
My favorite are Magnus Classics which are a little more, but same idea.
Just strikes me as Wrong, but I guess he figures target foam makes a fine strop.
Have modern bowhunters forgotten how to sharpen broadheads?
Short answer...yes. But it's more likely they never learned how to in the first place.
That is one poorly put together arrow. Or damaged from a hard impact?
No offence intended or slight on your abilities.
Those thin blades don't hold up the the first set of ribs they encounter. Do they kill animals? Sure they do. Anything you put in the right spot will kill an animal.
But the whole point of sharpness is to increase bleeding. If you've lost your sharpness after passing through the first set of ribs, then that's like wearing a hat for the first hour after sunrise to prevent a sunburn and then taking it off for the rest of the day.
Blood vessels move and bend. They're also relatively strong - especially arteries. Arteries have a hard outer lining, followed by a muscle lining, then the soft endothelial lining before you get to the lumen in the middle where the blood is.
I've personally done procedures on people working close to small-moderate sized arteries where a significant torque and pressure was put on the artery and it did not tear. They hold up to a lot. Most of these procedures have been trauma repair. The fact that the artery did not cut or break in the initial trauma is testimony to their durability.
If the point of your BH contacts the artery, it's probably not going to be an issue. The theoretical idea behind a sharp BH, is at the margins of your cutting diameter, ie: at the very bottom of your BH (its widest parts), if the blade is dull when it contacts the vessel, it can simply push it out of the way because vessels can be pushed and moved. A sharp blade will not push, it will slice. This is why very sharp broadheads leave huge holes on quartering animals. They don't push and punch through. They slice.
Another example: When I was in school, I second-assisted on a double mastectomy that was performed by two surgeons. Each surgeon removed one breast. They used different techniques. The first surgeon used primarily a scalpel and a Bovie, which is an electro-cautery which cuts with an exceptionally heated cutting metal that is dull. The idea of the Bovie is that it cauterizes the blood as it cuts and cuts down on bleeding. The second surgeon used a peanut, which is essentially a small wad of gauze folded into the shape of a peanut and held taut by a forceps. The peanut is forced repeatedly into the tissue to separate it and "cuts" by pulling and separating the tissues apart. Both surgeons performed the mastectomy using their preferred method and separated the breast tissue away from the chest wall.
At the end of the procedure, as they finished roughly at the same time, I was surprised to see how dry the side was where the peanut was used in contrast to the scalpel/Bovie side, which was actively bleeding from the entire surgical wound.
I switched from Muzzys to VPAs after hunting with Mike and he let me shoot some of his. I killed a doe with the VPA head, which has thicker steel and a 30 degree cutting edge and also has high quality steel. I shot a doe at 35 yards and penetrated ribs on both sides, the arrow exited the arm pit, went through the leg, fractured the humerus, exited, having cut hide 4 times, and stuck in the ground on the other side a good 6 inches, deep enough that I had to give it a good tug to get it out.
I was surprised to find that the VPA head was still sharp, with not a single visible dent in the metal. A Muzzy going through the same thing would have looked like it was jabbed into gravel repeatedly.
So, I took a deep breath and now pay $40 for 3 heads. BTW, they're not too sharp out of the box, but they're one of the easiest heads to sharpen. The design allows you to just drag them across a flat sharpening stone. I literally had my 12 year old daughter do it for her BHs. I showed her how to do it, she did it, and her first BH was razor sharp. If a 12 year old girl can sharpen a BH with minimal education in a matter of minutes, then anyone can.
NOT that I am willing to use a minimally sharp broadhead and call it good enough.
But I've posted on many threads in the past, why is it that even an EXTREMLY damaged broadhead akin to the "ram-rodded into gravel 50-times" noted above) will still very cleanly slice the vane off another arrow already stuck into the target? An arrow vane is pretty flimsy and if you tried to cut it with a knife it would easily move off to the side. Yet an very dull flying broadhead blade will zip a vane in half cleanly every time.
So at the end of the day, it's my opinion that nearly any purchased blade is sharp enough.
Sure, some BH are stronger, some hold up better, some penetrate better, etc. but except for some brands that intentionally are sold unsharpened (e.g. traditional heads) I think we are "splitting hairs" when it comes defining what is dull and poorly packaged.
I personally don't hunt with blades that I've used in a target (even once) but based on the performance of extremely dull banged up practice blades, I can see why GF's example of a guy who shoots BH into foam target once and then hunts with them probably doesn't affect their lethality enough to notice or measure.
As Zinger says, sharpening factory edges is little more than rearranging deck chairs. If you want to fine, but IMO not necessary.
Carl
I've shot animals with the replaceable blade type broadhead and on recovery, one or some of the blades are dinged a little because of intersecting a rib bone just right. But, the blood trail is still just as good and the animal is just as dead as the 30 deg bevel broadhead I also use. So,...six of one, half dozen of the other?
The sharper BH, though, will potentially put certain animals down quicker and will potentially give a better blood trail. On animals that are not hit perfectly, I think the sharp BH gives you a better shot at recovering the animal. It's also better, IMO, to put an animal down quicker, as is the general consensus among hunters.
Any animal shot in the aorta or double lunged with two holes collapsing lungs won't go far. One-lunged animals, liver or gut hit animals, muscle hit animals, etc, I think that's where you stand to potentially get the benefit of the sharper BH.
I think that if you kill hundreds of animals your entire life and you lose one because of a dull BH, than it was worth the sharper BH on all the rest.
Have you ever not recovered an animal and wondered afterwards if you walked by him or stopped just short of him? If an animal dies 100 yards closer, it could potentially make the difference between finding it and not. Most animals it doesn't make a difference. It's just another just-in-case.
There is also a theory about "wire edge" sharpening, that the tiny ragged edge (wire edge) left from sharpening with a file "grabs" and cuts soft tissue better than a polished razor edge. I think the same theory applies WRT serrated edges on some commercial blades "grabbing" soft tissue.
It does seem to grab tissue and cut like a son of a gun, but the big problem with that wire edge is it rolls so easy with even contact on a rib. Then you really have no edge at all left. At least a serrated edge has some strength/support built into it and is a much tougher edge than a wire edge.
Some heads you can shape with a file, but I think all edges should be honed and polished out to remove that thin section left by coarse sharpening.
I tune my bow to them, sharpen every one, spin everyone and then they go in the quiver. Confidence in your equipment is huge in archery. I have complete confidence in the broadhead I shot.
I tended to not get such persistently bleeding tiny cuts the rest of the week, even after often skipping a day of shaving. The fresh blades gave me the smoother and cleaner shave I was looking for for Saturday night, and the very same blade still shaved me pretty well four or five more times, so was still "shaving sharp" but without that extra bloodletting that the fresh blade provided.
I was just starting to bowhunt about that time, and the lesson sunk in that there would most likely be a connection there between the blade sharpness and the blood trail I hoped to find and follow. Even if it's only a difference of a few drops, those may be the drops that make the difference between a recovery and a lost animal.
"Sharp enough", for me, has always meant as sharp as I can make it.
LOL! That's a broad statement.
Then I'll touch them up in camp.
It gives me some focused, "Zen" time. Ultimately, I may be honing my mind as much as my broadheads. It's just something that I do.
X-2. For me it's equal parts therapy and functionality. There's something VERY soothing about filing and honing steel. And then there's the feeling of, "I did this. This is MY edge. It will be the FIRST and most important thing that contacts the deer. The deer I kill with it will taken due to my efforts and skill. I owe it nothing less."
And i positively disagree with HDE....
Why would anyone shoot a head that cannot hold its sharpness all the way through an animal?
Which time and about what?
"Modern archer doesn't need to know how to sharpen"HDE quote I have a buddy that used to shoot Montecs...taking a break on an elk hunt I asked to see one of his arrows and the head was slightly dull.....never shot but went in and out of his quiver multiple times. So he should just buy a new one? Or shoot a dull head? _________ Then there is the spin checking....
I spin my BH tipped arrows on a jig to check straightness....there can still be enough of a wobble that couldn't be seen by just eyeing them without the jig I've found arrows that spun on a table .004"off in the length of the BH. The difference between .004" and .002" is significant in that short distance on the front end of your arrow when it comes to BH arrow flight.
With my homegrown jig, I can easily get them all .002" with minor effort. Contrary to your comments, I've seen an improvement in BH arrow flight.
Plus I shoot each one to make sure...if you don't, you are guessing that there isn't any spine issue or any outlier issue that pops up.
I get that its all 'degrees' and many guys don't want to go through the extra effort. My point is- with a jig, it doesn't take much effort to be 100% certain of a perfect arrow.
I'm on the replaceable blade bandwagon, mainly because I cannot sharpen a tiny blade as well as Slick Trick and Wacem can at the factory. If my bow is tuned I can shoot most broadheads in the same spot as my filed points at any range.
I fly to as many hunts as I drive to. Shooting each head/arrow combination isn't practical for me. I don't leave home without my spin tester and ensure every head/arrow spins true before placing it in my quiver; at times only for a day or two before hopping on the plane and heading home.
These are the most important steps to ensuring you're doing it right from my perspective....in no particular order.
1) Whatever you can do consistently that gives you the most confidence in your equipment.
Happy 4th everyone!
In the spirit of this thread being designated as DEBATE FREE and all responses must be Constructive and Positive, I will only say I never once said a modern bowhunter doesn't need to know how to sharpen a broadhead, I said they've never had to learn.
With all the different replaceable blade broadheads out there, the need to learn how is not a requirement to bowhunt.
The other points you bring up would not be proper to be discussed here.
I don't have a pic of the old jig I used to check the wobble in my heads as I cannabalized the micrometer for a spine checker.
It would be very hard to get the micrometer on the heads I'm using now- COC's. The micrometer worked with the rounded chisel points I used to use 15-20 years ago as you can run it around the entire diameter.
Hey, maybe there is an idea...make a spin checker with the micrometer having a modified tip that you can spin check any head on.....
Then remember...you are spinning everything against that back block so if the back is a few one thousands off....it will polish the end of a carbon perfectly square anyway [i use 220 sandpaper]
Spinning the arrow on the notches to true the heads; all you need is a center dot on the back block
I drew up this sketch to illustrate how the very same bent arrow can give three different indications of runout depending upon the support location.
Sharp is sharp...after that there are just varying degrees of dullness!
An arrow spinner is no good if its 6" from the closest support as you illustrated.
It should be appearant to the most casual observer that any arrow spinner of this design, no matter where the supports are placed, is worthless.
Any bend in the arrow between the nock and the nearest support is not detected in any way. A bend in the arrow between the supports Is not detected in any way. Only a bend between the nearest support and arrow tip is detected and it is a lie. The bend in the arrow will always be MORE than the spinner indicates. (Assuming a constant bend as illustrated and that is the most likely scenario.)
Any attempt to square the end of the shaft with that device will NOT make the end square to the centerline of the shaft at its exit point. You are making it square to to some arbitrary centerline determined by the support position and the bend in the arrow.
Those arrows that APPEAR straight by their lack of wiggle are only being "measured" straight from the far support to their point and then they are only as "straight" as the vision of the observer, probably about +/- .005". And again, the bend in the arrow will always be MORE than the spinner indicates.
You are actually also checking the concentricity of the arrow's ID to the OD, the concentricity of the insert, the straightness of the insert, the straightness of the broadhead and the symmetricalness of the broadheads.
Unless you have a dial indicator, I would just roll the arrow shaft on a flat table. Sort by checking the clearance between the table and the arrow with skinny strips of paper of different thickness or use a feeler gage. Shoot them and see how much bend you can tolerate. I suspect that it will be more bend than you thought because you have always been shooting arrows with more bend in them than you thought.
I don't believe he's trying to measure how straight the shaft is. He's trying to align the broadhead as best he can with the shaft. Rolling the shaft on a (perfectly flat) table is going to be hard to produce the best head alignment, the equipment required to do that would be pretty sophisticated for even an archery shop, much less something the average archer would need/use.
For aligning heads to the degree necessary for bowhunting, some form of v-block, bearings, etc. would be the simplest and easiest, given all else being equal. If the straightness of the shaft was an issue I would pick up some different shafts. =D
A good squaring tool (essentially another v-block device) helps a great deal too.
In all honesty even though I have a couple different v-block spinners laying around.... some with, some without dial indicators.... I normally just screw a head on and spin em.... gets me close enough for the girls I go out with.....
Have followed the general trend of overthought, overcomplicated, and expensive.
We "Think" you have to use the latest and greatest to be effective.
When in reality it is not the equipment that is at fault, but rather the user that fails to become efficient.
Some of the old two blade heads that arrive dull like zwickey, ace, magnus ect....when sharpened and tuned by skilled hands still kill as good as anything.
I'm not opposed to mechanicals, gadgets ect...heck I'd use them.
But I can also sit down sharpen a Ace 2 blade scary sharp, mount it properly on a douglas fir arrow and fill my freezer with meat.
Years ago you would pull into a jobsite with 4 guys, concrete was ordered prior because there was no such thing as cell phones...and you would pour a 20 YD pour, no hassle, and it would go good, look good, and last.
Now we pull into a jobsite with 12 guys, they all have to have hard hats and safety vest, there are 6 white hat inspectors that probably never finished concrete in their life, everybody is on their cell phones, we got pages of blueprints, certifications, evaporation meters...ect...ect.. And when the job is done? ....well its just another 20 YD pour.
Expensive dull broadheads?...LOL...We are mostly just spinning our wheels folks....but we look dang good doing it.
Again, manufactures don't get it, time for a boycott...
