Bowsite.com

Recently became a sponsor, and somewhat excited about my new safari business.

For those interested in hunting Aus Water Buff ... please check out my website www.ausbuffsafari.com

Let me know what you think of the website or whether you have any questions.

Thanks & regards, Eugene

Your website seems well done. I especially like your description of your hunting philosophy and the fact you focus on bow hunting. When I started talking to the Aussie operators, some refused to take bow hunters and some would just laugh and say "sure you can bring your bow along" with the assurance the next sound after the twang would be a boom from their rifle!! Bowsiters, it is important your PH is committed to bow hunting.

Arnhem land is remote wilderness. I especially enjoyed all the other flora and fauna of the outback, not just the buff. You might play up more of that part of the experience on your website.

It is great you lay it all out right upfront about the heavy arrows, broadheads, and FOC. Hunters would do well to heed this advice and leave their whitetail hunter ideas about equipment at home. Buff are perfect for bow hunting up close. The way I see it, that is an integral part of dangerous game hunting.

Seven days (actually 4.5 days hunting) seems minimal to me with a bow. You must have great hunting. I would encourage a bow hunter to spend as much time as they can because they will be dreaming of a return anyway. Also, after traveling half way around the world, do some side trips. Australia is wonderful.

"With modern archery equipment, one can certainly get killed using 400-500 gr arrows and 100gr broadheads..."

/:^)

Elk and moose are not buff...

My point is if you can get a 65-70lb modern bow to get a 500gr arrow with a good head like a Muzzy Trocar or Wasp Bullet etc...at around 280 fps, certainly by adding 300 grains and slowing it down 60 fps, you are not going to get more killing power. Seems futile, like the rule of diminishing returns. I believe that Buff are tough animals...I simply believe that with modern archery tackle, meaning more effecient bows, higher fps, good foc, and solid 100 or 125 gr broadheads, the rule of 70lb bows and 800gr arrows, and 200 gr broadheads seems archaic.

My point is this. The whole archery industry is driven by whitetail hunting. So then, is the thinking of the great majority of bow hunters about equipment. I think Pat Lefemine even alludes to this by mentioning the Rage broadheads. (Pat, you know the risk of derailing this thread by even using the R word!).

It always amazes me how so many North American hunters go to Africa and Australia, paying substantial money to PHs, but disregard their advice on equipment and shot placement. Most of them are influenced by overwhelming indoctrination on bow hunting whitetails.

Water Buff in Australia is specialized dangerous game hunting. Eugene, the sponsor who started the thread, is in the business of trying to provide clients with a dead buff with a bow. That is the essence of it. In his experience, the equipment he lists maximizes that endeaver. He may take a hunter shooting something different. But, I am betting he will tell them, in his experience, it decreases the chances of a dead buff. His website states "for trad bows, contact Eugene. Any trad shooter must recognize it may decrease their chances, just like any bow shooter must recognize their chances are reduced by not using a gun.

The old saying "you pay your money and you take your chances" comes to mind. If a hunter wants to pit his bow and arrow set-up against a water buffalo, Australia awaits.

Thanks for your reply, appreciated.

We have tested a variety of arrow weights (500-850) and bh's (Montec G5, etc. in various grains) and the heavy arrow by far produces the best one-arrow-kill consistency ... relating to penetration.

I am comfortable that a client's arrow will reach the vitals from acceptable shooting distances and angles. In fact I like closer to 850grain

Not all buff are equal … there is a difference between: 1) a cow vs a bull … bulls bigger; 2) an animal during the early dry-season vs late dry-season 2.1)early dry-season … the mature bulls in prime condition, thick-as-mud, huge and built like tanks ... its like shooting into a Rinehart bh target 2.2)compared to shooting them towards the end of the dry-season = they lose condition, especially some of the older cows and bulls becomes real skinny.

I appreciate your input, but unfortunately I will not allow light gear.

Thanks & Regards, Eugene

Thanks for your input, appreciated.

I will definitely next time take more pics about the scenery. I never thought I'd start the safari thing ... so when I did the website I was in short supply of nice pics about the surroundings.

Re hunting days: There are plenty of buff ... from all sizes ... and great cover to relatively easy get into bow distance. I will have an email conversation with each potential client understanding exactly their requirement, hence ensuring I can deliver and allow enough time where appropriate

Thanks Eugene

Something I forgot to mention ... the bows used during our trial-by-error stage ... by my buddies CPXL's and Bowtech destroyer 350 ... all bows at 70lbs at 29"dl

My specs ... I draw a tad over 32" and shot buff with 68, 70, 72 and 82lbs (my personal bows K&K Vindicators, Obsession Addiction, BowTech Old Glory ... I think my bows are rated between 320-330 IBO

So these are not archaic or slow bows

Cheers Eugene

PM sent!

Now take that same bow, take a 30" arrow, it's 850 grains, it's going to have to be fatter, and because you have weighted it with 300 more grains, you will slow it down by at least 60 fps...will this penetrate better? Have you done tests like this? Curious to know.

I really liked your website. I have some questions/observations.....

1.) You mention that there are no salt water crocs where you are guiding/hunting....only "shy, freshwater crocs". Just how big are these "shy" crocs? Shy doesn't mean that they aren't dangerous, does it (especially if hungry)?

2.)I didn't see any price list for your hunts? ...extra charges for shooting a feral pig? By chance, we won't be anywhere near the feral horses or camels, will we? ...even if we were, it might be the wrong time of the year to bowhunt them, right?

3.) I have a bow set-up for a 2014 elephant bowhunt (which was cancelled at the last minute). I don't remember my exact arrow weight...but it was in the 790 grain to 830 grain range. If I am a few grains under your 800 grain requirement, but my poundage is higher than the minimum required, would that still be acceptable? My arrow shafts are rather small diameter (smaller than some broadhead ferrules), so they shouldn't have much trouble passing through thick ribs. I had stainless steel outserts on the front of the arrows, rather than footing them.

4.) Asiatic Buffalo seem to be wider than Cape Buffalo....do their ribs "overlap" the way that Cape Buffalo ribs do?

5.)Can extra days be added on....on a per diem rate?

6.) Can Americans bring the meat back to the U.S.? Would we WANT to? If that IS possible, is there anyway to prevent it from spoiling until we can get back to a place where we can freeze it, and pack it properly?

Dino,

There are small diameter arrow shafts in the 17-21 gpi range now. A 30" shaft with a 180 or 210 grain German Kinetics Silver Flame Broadhead can get to 800+ grains without being any larger than the broadhead ferrule.

Please refer to MedicineMan's comment ... I had great success with Easton Full Metal Jacket .250 spine DG arrows ... I also shoot .200 spined GoldTip Kinetics for many years. There are other ways you can also increase weight upfront e.g. screw-in weights for e.g. thicker arrows, etc.

As BowOnly eluded to ... The reason I propose the weights I do is to increase the penetration odds under a variety of shot conditions i.e. I want the buff down as quick as possible for obvious reasons. People pay a lot of money for their dream hunt.

To answer your question re your bow: - I will not let you shoot your setup with a 550 grain arrow on buff - However if you bump up your arrow weight to +800 grains with a solid 2 blade COC bh (not the ones you mentioned) = yes, I will let you

I killed a few buff with my BowTech Old Glory set at 68lbs, 850 grain total arrow weight @ 218fps, 210 grain German Kinetic = no problems

Thanks for your comments.

1) Also please check google ... the largest I have seen is approx. 1 meter ... their mouths/jaws are very narrow and designed to catch fish = they have needle like teeth. The worst they can do is puncture you a bit lol ... what I mean by shy is they hit the road once we are in the vicinity i.e. they are difficult to find. Also one can walk 100m up or down the creek to find shallow clear water of your choice e.g. knee deep 2) Pigs and scrubbers are free ... no camels there ... there are horses and donkeys. Note I do not dedicate time to hunting pigs/scrubbers ... only if encountered while hunting buff OR when the buff quota is full 3) Sounds fine 4) No 5) Depends 6) I am unsure ... we have tried over the years to do different stuff with the meat ... large bulls very tuff (boot-leather) and lean ... there are some restaurants that specialise in this ... the locals eat it, but they prefer the young cows ... I will take some backstraps, etc. and we can try it and you can see if you like it ... the dingos seems to like it. I can find out if you like ... I think the issue will be on the USA side, not Aus ... from memory I think one hunter from Perth took frozen meat back on the local airline.

Thanks & regards Eugene

Hello All Gaffy from Australia here, I have hunted large Aussie game (Buff, Scrub Bulls and Camels)and have hunted with Eugene also.

Firstly Eugene is a stand up guy and has taken many buff with a bow, one arrow per animal, quick and humanely.(He Knows his stuff)

He is exactly right with the weight requirements of bow and the arrows, good strong arrows with weight up front and 200gn or over all steel broadhead.

I have had great success with 822 grain arrows shot out of my Monster 7 or my CPXL both bows are 70 lb models and the speed was 219 and 220 fps.

Young buffs (meat models) cows and end of dry season bulls (not so fat) pass through's would be expected, on wet season animals (very fat and heavy) with bulls the arrow would me mostly through a good 20 inches or so hanging out of the off side.

I have taken camels with lighter gear but using the 800 grain and above arrows it guarantees that bone crunching penetration.

My thoughts about concerns with the gear, if you you are putting in the time, effort and $ to go big game hunting .. take the guides advice or at least use what the locals are using.

Eugene congrats on becoming a sponsor and a safari operator!

Cheers Gaffy

Gaffman: Glad you like the site & Thanks for your input, appreciated.

So you dont hunt any stations?

There is an old saying, "Just because you ride a horse once, doesn't make you a cowboy." I don't proclaim to be a cowboy, but I have ridden a horse once. I have killed a water buffalo and I used lightweight equipment in regards to hunting water buffalo. I would never attempt it again. Please refer to my hyperlink for the full detail of the hunt. I stand by my original comment of "hardest animal I've ever tried to kill."

I have also killed eland of equivalent size and bison. Both species were easier to kill and I used 55# and 62# bow weights respectively with lighter weight arrows. eugeneb is giving you solid advice on equipment needs to hunt the animal. Not only are you dealing with mass size, but an animal with an attitude. It is secondly only attitude wise to a cape buff. It is wider than a cape and one thing in the hunter's favor is the that the ribs do not over lap like on a cape buff.

If you decide to take one on, good luck.

No hunting is conducted on any station ... there are no fences and animals roam free.

Re exclusivity ... there are 2 adjacent areas:

1) One I share with my buddies ... we nowadays have an annual hunt once per year as we now live in separate cities ... so the area does not see much hunting like in the past (no-one else besides us hunt this area)

2) The other area for which the safari business has exclusivity

Regards,

Eugene

Congrats on your buff and i appreciate your input and reading about your hunt.

Regards,

Eugene

Nice pics and congrats on your buff.

Where if I might ask did the hunt take place? and did you see much of NT e.g. Kakadu National Park or Katherine Gorge, etc.

Regards Eugene

If I where a rich man... I would be there in a heartbeat looks like a full on adrenaline rush to me:)

I wouldn't argue about the equipment needs/ requirements!

Super heavy arrows with high FOC will outperform the fastest lightest arrow with high a "light" broad head any day of the week!

Its about arrow momentum, not fps or kinetic energy.

We managed to see a lot. Snorkled the Great Barrier Reef, sailed the Whitsunday Islands, Uluru at sunset, a Kakadu tour, Sydney, Darwin, and spent some days with a local camping and hunting the outback somewhere way south of Darwin. Never got to Arnhem Land which has always intrigued me with its vast, wild places.

I think Australia is a great place for a first time international traveler from the USA. Same language, or close enough! Same kind of money. Good exchange rate. And very friendly people. Like visiting cousins you have never met.

"Like visiting cousins you have never met."

This is an every day event in the South. You don't have to go to Australia to to that !!!! Wasn't that what "Deliverance" was all about- "kissin cousins"?

Great ... so you made the most of your trips.

I have hunted Elsey Station think 2009 for pigs ... it must have been hard hunting for buff ... as the buff were few and far between when we were there.

The Bulman area I hunt which is approx. 8.5 hours drive from Darwin ... if you take a 15 min drive with the vehicle it is not uncommon to see +100 buff ... e.g. if you walk to a swamp 800m from our camp site you will likely see +30 buff.

Thanks & regards Eugene

Just out of interest- what have been your findings with penetration of 2-blade vs 3-blade BH"s on buff and scrub cows?

Have you had much experience or witnessed the use of VPA and German Silver Flames on buff and scrub cows?

Please feel free to elaborate. Thanks

Unfortunately I do not have much experience in comparing 2 vs 3 blades on buff/scrubber. My one hunting buddy used a Montec fixed 3 blader on buff (before we really targeted buff) and the feedback was not good ... so after that we only used 2 bladers.

None of us has used a VPA bh on buff/scrubber.

I have used the German Kinetic 210 grain on buff with no issues. (unsure how many, but would guess 10)

After trying some 2 bladers we pretty much only used a local bh called an Outback Supreme 220 grain single bevel ... they were cheaper and easier to get hold of than the GK's ... nowadays these local bh's seem difficult to get hold of so I will go back to German Kinetics.

Regards Eugene

Thanks for your response on the 2-blade vs 3-blade question.

At the last DSC Convention I met a guy from Australia and he showed me a photo of the Outback Supreme BH. It is a pretty sturdy looking BH.

Wow ... nice big bodied bull ... when you say thrashing, do you mean head shaking and foot stomping?

Also what time of year was it?

My perception is that the bulls have a bit more attitude very early in the dry (I assume when they come out of the breeding period) e.g. I have hunted them during May ... but hunting is difficult very early in the dry as the bush is too thick and grass at places are very high e.g. you get under 20 yrds ... you can hear and smell them, but cannot see them.

Regards Eugene

Your comments on the varying body size on bulls got me thinking. Most bulls I remember seemed bulky, some more than others. But mine was obviously a smaller body size than most. I believe it was an old bull, but still his condition was noticeably different. The horns were pretty good though. I shot it the first part of July.

I actually got to see the full body mount of Charlie,the famous bull in the movie Crocodile Dundee. The one that stood in the road and Mick did his mind trick on. It was at the Adelaide River Inn. He had great sweepers, but was tiny body wise. Dwarf really. Check him out.

Thanks for the reply and that certainly is a great trophy! and yes it looks like an old bull ... congrats!

Yes, I have made a few stops at the Adelaide River Inn ... great relaxing atmosphere for Sunday lunch.

From some of the research I have done ... they age up 25 years in the wild and longer in captivity and their horns apparently never stop growing until they die.

I am no expert in ageing them, but to me it seems at a certain age their body mass deteriorates/decline more with each passing year i.e. body-wise they do not recover (during the wet) to the same size as the previous year.

Certainly some of the larger/wider horned specimens I have seen were not as full in the body (even right after the wet). I will post some pics later on.

Regards Eugene

Dino, I would suggest you read the research done by Dr. Ed Ashby, link included: http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

What I gathered from this penetration research for my Cape Buffalo hunt in South Africa was if you have ever seen a Speed Boat tool down the river and cut their power, they stop really quick as opposed to a Tow Barge pushing a large load. When it cuts it power it takes almost a mile to stop. Point being the light fast arrow loses it's energy too fast to penetrate while the heavier arrow keeps it's energy and is able to penetrate.

The other thing to pick up on is a heavy two blade broadhead with offsetting bevels is critical because it causes a twisting action that splinters the rib bone and creates space, allowing the arrow less friction as it passes into the animal and retaining more energy.

My PSE 2014 DNA was getting 314 FPS with my Whitetail arrow (418 grain arrow with 100 grain Thunderhead). That got 78 footpounds of energy but was still 2 lbs under the legal limit in South Africa for Big Game like Cape Buffalo. I used a 956 grain arrow with a 315 Ashby Single Bevel broadhead. That reduced my speed to 208 FPS but my Footpounds was 88. 10 more than my light White tail rig. And I could shoot this setup with my same Whitetail rig, same release, just had to resight or have a separate sight for the heavy arrow.

Since I never had hunted Buffalo I wanted to take advantage of what other's had done before me rather than risk figuring it out on the maybe one chance I might get to have. It sure paid off me for me. My Cape Buffalo went down in 85 yards and less than 60 seconds. I plan on shooting this heavy arrow setup on Asian Water Buffalo in Argentina this November and someday in Australia for their Water Buffalo. I would sure suggest looking into Dr. Ashby's research to help guide you to your choice in hunting big game like buffalo. Good luck to you in future hunts and I hope sharing this information helps you make an informed opinion. Good hunting.

Dino, I would suggest you read the research done by Dr. Ed Ashby, link included: http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

What I gathered from this penetration research for my Cape Buffalo hunt in South Africa was if you have ever seen a Speed Boat tool down the river and cut their power, they stop really quick as opposed to a Tow Barge pushing a large load. When it cuts it power it takes almost a mile to stop. Point being the light fast arrow loses it's energy too fast to penetrate while the heavier arrow keeps it's energy and is able to penetrate.

The other thing to pick up on is a heavy two blade broadhead with offsetting bevels is critical because it causes a twisting action that splinters the rib bone and creates space, allowing the arrow less friction as it passes into the animal and retaining more energy.

My PSE 2014 DNA was getting 314 FPS with my Whitetail arrow (418 grain arrow with 100 grain Thunderhead). That got 78 footpounds of energy but was still 2 lbs under the legal limit in South Africa for Big Game like Cape Buffalo. I used a 956 grain arrow with a 315 Ashby Single Bevel broadhead. That reduced my speed to 208 FPS but my Footpounds was 88. 10 more than my light White tail rig. And I could shoot this setup with my same Whitetail rig, same release, just had to resight or have a separate sight for the heavy arrow.

Since I never had hunted Buffalo I wanted to take advantage of what other's had done before me rather than risk figuring it out on the maybe one chance I might get to have. It sure paid off me for me. My Cape Buffalo went down in 85 yards and less than 60 seconds. I plan on shooting this heavy arrow setup on Asian Water Buffalo in Argentina this November and someday in Australia for their Water Buffalo. I would sure suggest looking into Dr. Ashby's research to help guide you to your choice in hunting big game like buffalo. Good luck to you in future hunts and I hope sharing this information helps you make an informed opinion. Good hunting.

Cheers Eugene

Jacquomo: Thanks for your comment, but I will never recommend Rage on buff ... curious whether your PH friend recommend Rage on buff to his clients?

Cheers Eugene

As per my post of 2 Aug ... I will post some pics of older bulls with good horns shortly.

Regards Eugene