Mechanical 2nd-ary Cutting ??
Equipment
For those with experience with mechanical heads how are they when it comes to secondary cutting.
Buy this I mean when the arrow stays in the animal vs. pass-through. With blades that move I would assume the secondary damage would be much less than a fixed head would cause as the animal moves.
Any first hand thoughts on this aspect of broadhead lethality would be helpful.
I have very little experience with MBH's not fully penetrating unless stuck in heavy bone, so I cannot be of much help.
Bou any footage I ever saw on TV guys shooting them big cut Rage BH's, and the BH stays in, they ALWAYS recovered the buck a few days later so I would say they must be making all sorts of damage since they always recover the rack. It also helps to have a healthy population of crows and buzzards to assure the rack is recovered before the mice start chewing on it.
The funny thing they are saying now about Rage in their own advertising is "they cut a huge entry hole" they never mention an exit hole. Shawn
Serious question ? I'll give a serious answer. I have zero experience using mechs on mammals, but they are all I will use when hunting turkeys. They will almost always hang up inside the turkeys vitals and cut the hell out of everything as the turkey is doing his flip-flops.
The only kills on mammals that I'm familiar with, have been two antelope my best friend killed with a Spitfire. One stuck in the off shoulder blade, no secondary cutting there. One was a pass through, totally deflating the lungs. Antelope still ran 300 yards, but what the hell, it's Wyoming, and you can see 3,000 yards.
yes it is a serious question.
Last year I shot a large Mule Deer with a NAP Killzone. It's blades open from behind, and are exposed even when closed. The shot was from above, at a quartering away angle. The arrow went in below the shoulder and lodged in the offside front leg. When the deer took off running, the front half of the shaft broke off in the chest cavity and the offside leg was lacerated so bad that it was one big blood clot and had to be discarded. So,.. in this case, the Killzone had lots of 2ndary cutting.
Even a field point stirring around inside your lungs will mess you up.
there has to be more feedback than this please
I can't imagine ANY head either fixed or expandable contributing much to lethality from secondary cutting.....
It ranks right up there with the "Void" IMO.
...and don't try sprinkling a BC powder on your broadhead either! :)
To be honest I shoot Rocket Steelheads for mechs and they always blow right through, so unfortunately I don't know about secondary cutting.
I'm with Genesis - who out there has been able to analyze secondary cutting post mortem??
Much easier to copy and paste APaul's post..
To be honest I shoot Rocket Steelheads for mechs and they always blow right through, so unfortunately I don't know about secondary cutting.
I'm with Genesis - who out there has been able to analyze secondary cutting post mortem??
ED
I have found that mechanicals do much more secondary cutting than coc fixed blade heads. Fixed blades tend to pass through and once buried in the dirt they don't cut much. Mechanicals otoh tend to stay in the animals and cut for days until the animal finally succumbs to the lethality of the big axe like blades.
My experience has been exactly like Genesis with Steelheads. No secondary cutting because they've always passed through. One time my arrow didn't pass through, it hit the opposite shoulder, but I watched the buck fall so no biggie, and no secondary cutting needed. I also don't think secondary cutting is important or that you can prove that secondary cutting actually was important in a kill.
Hi Bou longtime lurker actually registered to reply to your thread. By all the replys you would think you were on archery talk not bowsite. First of all I am a huge mechanical fan. I don't believe they are always the better choice but for me many times they are. I have been part of and witnessed probably 500+ mechanical broadhead kills in the last 10 yrs and most have been with the hated rage. These include elk moose grizzly caribou zebra kudu gemsbuck ect. I've always felt that secondary cutting is the worst quality that a good expandable has. I feel that once the broadhead is done moving forward it is done cutting. Many times the blades will fold back and arrow even fall out. Usually secondary cutting is not needed but if an animal turns to you during the shot and your arrow ends up buried in the ham it could definitely be a big deal. A hybrid like a grave digger would help this scenario some. Most all the mechanical kills I've been part of have been w arrows of 410-430 grains and penetration has never been a problem. I believe most of the penetration problems come from too light of arrows. Also I believe most of the comments from people regarding mechanical broadheads involve very little if any experience with them. Like I said they have their place. Sitting over a black bear bait they have no advantage but shooting a sheep or caribou at 80 yds on an open ridge I will take a mechanical every time. One last thing the broadhead to me that has the best qualities of both would be a ramcat. Incredible flight big hole and seem less effected by wind on long shots but they can be a pain in quivers and broadhead targets. Take care
I agree with Genesis....i don't think secondary cutting is much of a factor with any BH.
Do guys picture their BH in there rattling around cutting everything?
8 big game animals with a rage since March. 6 pass thrus. All fell in sight.
Jack, you need to get out into the real world, those TV shows have gotten a hold of you and are clouding your judgement.
Nick I stopped watching them for the most part. Glad you like the Rage. As you may recall - I had a very bad experience with one but I do hear they are making them better than the old circa-2006 2 blade versions I was using before I tossed them in the trash.
ohiohunter, I live in Alaska and they just give us free tags for all sorts of great stuff, so I go and use them.
Jack, I've had more bad experiences ranging from shitty blood trails to lost animals with fixed blades than with mechs. Nothing better than a huge hole and a dead critter a short walk away.
I'm a fixed head guy but I just stumbled upon the Fixpandable heads and damn do they leave a hole! Any experiences with those? In regards to Rage I stopped using them after the blades popped open for the fifth time in one day. My exact words were "what a joke". O rings are for engines and rubber bands are for the Post Office.
""My exact words were "what a joke". O rings are for engines and rubber bands are for the Post Office"
AND
Aluminum is for Beer cans.
The only 2nd-ary Cutting internal cutting a mech will do is cut the intestines if the animal passes(poops)the blades.
Can't say I have any real experience with secondary cutting using Grim Reapers. The vast majority of my shots are pass thru's. The non pass thru's have been stuck into the far side shoulder.
"O rings are for engines and rubber bands are for the Post Office."
All of which see way more usage than a broadhead.
I switched from NAP Blood Runner which I assume is a fixspandable, to G5's. I guess Im willing to trade some secondary cutting for an exit wound that bleeds. Honestly the only problem I had with blood runners was the 2 acres of frontal area that didnt cut and the horrible lack of pass throughs.
I guess I do want good secondary cutting, i want a primary entry wound and a secondary exit wound.
Best of luck James
Sooooo, with a COC fixed blade and let's say 10" of shaft stuck in organic material how much "whipping around" do you think is happening inside the cavity? Don't forget the shaft is also stuck inside organic material. I mean it can happen in theory don't get me wrong, but I think that is mostly theoretical.
To this day I have not heard of one single person that took pics of organs and was like "wow look at the insides of this _____ they look like swiss cheese! Must have been my ____broadhead slicing and dicing away in there!"
Most of us probably love to look at organs, etc when we do a post kill biopsy. Anyone seen evidence of "secondary cutting?" It's not that I am a naysayer, I am really curious if people are seeing this.
"Sooooo, with a COC fixed blade and let's say 10" of shaft stuck in organic material how much "whipping around" do you think is happening inside the cavity?"
In real life or on the internet? You really need to qualify the question, because the right answer will be either "little to none" or "it turned a bad hit into a good one".
Depends, is this your arrow?
The mere fact that shafts break off so easily testifies that broadheads move around so little in the wound channel.
So hitting "the void" and secondary cutting into the vitals may be more than an 4 hour wait..:)
