Contributors to this thread:
I just got back from an elk hunt with Montana backcountry outfitters. It was a rifle hunt in Bob Marshall. I was there for 10 days and didn't even see a elk. I even had guide tell me fu when I told him at least I worked my butt off. I wouldn't go through this outfitter. I know this is a bowsite but I don't want somebody else to waist there money on this hunt.
There is no elk the wolves got them. It wouldn't have taken much research to find out a better place to hunt. get a big one next year keep at it.
Why was it a "bad outfitter"? Bad food? Did they leave you stranded someplace? Drunk guides? Crappy equipment? Bad horses? Leaky tents? You said "you worked your butt off". What does that mean? If you're going to besmirch a legitimate business, best provide some verifiable details.
Buddy, there are no guarantees in elk hunting. Sometimes the elk aren't there. From your attitude, I'm betting the outfitter and your guide will have much different perspectives about the situation. They may not want you back either.
But Lou how can that be? lol What about the scenery did you enjoy that? Or aren't you the type to smell the flowers?
Everyone knows the Bob Marshall is tough hunting. But there are certainly one or 2 elk I there so it's the guides job to look for them. If you worked your butt off doing that with a guide beside you isn't it safe to say he worked his off as well? If you had done even a little homework you would have known that you would be in an awesome looking area with a slim chance of killing elk. Great place to do a summer pack trip with family or friends.
Bronco, you may have legitimate reasons for the way you feel about your hunt & the Outfitter you used but just to pop up & bash an Outfitter & leave it at that is not cool. Being more specific as to why you feel your hunt was not up to par as Lou brings out would certainly carry more weight.
Not seeing an elk in 10 days can be frustrating but there has to be more to it than that for you to take the time to post this thread?
ElkNut1
Hunted the Bob 2 of the last four years. Seen plenty of elk and we brought 3 home, wounded one. Not as plentiful as some places had to hunt hard. We took horses in and it was some of the most beautiful country we have ever seen. Did see wolves also.
I agree with those above - there's got to be more to this story. I hunted the southern tip of "the Bob" a few years back with an outfitter. We worked hard all week and only saw one elk - the one I killed.
Success or lack thereof isn't the determining factor of whether or not an outfitter did their job.
This past bow season, I worked diligently preseason pouring over maps and google earth to prepare for a Colorado DIY bowhunt for elk. I felt that my sons and I were prepared. Then we got there and walked for over 30 miles before we ever saw or heard an elk and we went home without ever drawing our bows on an elk. I don't think that it was all my fault, and my boys certainly don't blame me for having to walk over 50 miles and only seeing one elk. It's just the way it worked out in-spite of our efforts.
Sometimes in-spite of preparation and hard work, you go home without punching a tag. I enjoyed the time with my boys and the journey as well - maybe next year, we will be able to pack out an elk :-)
--Mitch
I'd have to reserve my judgement on the "FU" until I knew the entire lead-up to it. In my view it's have to have been pretty adversarial to provoke that response, from a service provider.
Just because no elk were seen doesn't mean the outfitter was bad. As mentioned, what are the facts about the outfitter? What eaxactly did they do that gets them a failing grade? Before you go on a public forum to slander someone's business you batter have some hard facts other than you didn't see game. You don't want your outfitter sueing you for slander if he looses business because of you review. If I go fishing with a guide and don't see a fish is he a bad guide? I would submit we had a bad day.
Ha you could have been on my bear hunt in Maine where my guide was 3-4 beers deep as he brought me to my bait site at 50 mph down dirt roads. I also helped the same guide drag his bear out of the woods that he trapped with a snare and was in my stand after that to check the cam to find out the bear came in just 20 minutes before we got there due to his celebratory beers after he caught his bear. They also advertised coyote over bait for something to do in the morning which sounded awesome. I get to the bait to find its just last weeks clam dinner with nothing but empty clam shells and flies all over it. All the cams showed night time bears and the few sites that showed day time pics where being reserved for next weeks hound hunters. My bait consisted of a small bag of whatever hung from a tree which we were quickly running out of. I paid $1300 to watch a bag hanging from a tree but the good news is I saw a red squirrel and a rabbit at the site roll eyes. Now do you feel better?
Well, Dave, he posted about a bad outfitter without providing any details. That's a cheap shot IMO. So yeah, some of us will call him out and ask for facts. This outfitter has great reviews, is not some fly-by-night deal that popped up overnight.
I've guided hunters on tough rifle hunts. They thought they were "working their asses off". I had to take them places where their 70 pound overweight, out of shape fat asses could reach. I'm sure they blamed me for not getting an elk when they got back home to Texas.
But Dave, he didn't post an experience. OP came on here said was in the Bob for 10 days, didn't see an elk, outfitter is bad. That is not sharing an experience. Shouldn't slam somebody without some facts.
You got upset at him saying FU to you? Hmmm I wouldn't know how to communicate if that wasn't part of my vocabulary. It woul be like trying to talk to an italian with his hands tied behind his back
I never said FU to a hunter.
But a couple times I wanted to....
I would like to hear some specifics also.
The OP needs to elaborate... I'd be upset to have a 10 guided hunt and not have an opportunity or see anything. That said, if your going to call someone out publicly you better have valid reason and be willing to say what it is.
Rule 1: Don't hunt where there are no elk...
That's why I like DIY.
I know who to call an idiot and why I said FU back at em....
"You got upset at him saying FU to you? Hmmm I wouldn't know how to communicate if that wasn't part of my vocabulary. It woul be like trying to talk to an italian with his hands tied behind his back"
Hahaha, or hillary only allowed to speak the truth!
Give the guy a chance to revisit his post, its been all of 24hrs if that.
You want to hear story. Hear it is. We started our trip by horse back riding in for 8 hours. We wanted go whole 12 hours in one day but guide figured it was to far for us. The guide didn't think we could handle going 4 more hours. So we camped till morning and guide told 3 of us to hike/hunt to top of mountain on the trail by ourself. So we started hiking up mountain in dark not really knowing where we were going or where to meet my guide which was sitting in the camp we just left waiting for us to get to top of mountain 8 hours later. We got half way up mountain and here comes horses with the other 2 hunters we were with and one of the guides riding by us. I finally met up with my guide at the end of the day. We hunted deer/elk the next 5 days not seeing anything. My guide would cow call and bugle about every 10 minutes the whole day. He would hardly ever check wind so I think we probably scared the elk out of area. I told him we need to slow down because we were going to fast. He just kept speed up. We got to day 8 and I told him at least I can say I hunted hard. He walked by and said fu. We got back to tent and I told him not to make any supper that night and said I would hunt by myself next day by my self. The next day I went by myself and hunted but didn't see anything. I hunted day by myself. The last day went back out with guide and he was calling and bugling rest of time. I think I have hunted elk more than my guide has. I think guide had no idea how to hunt elk. The people who are saying I was overweight and out of shape can guess again. I was waiting for guide at top of mountain because he was out of shape not me. I thought I paid for guide not a semi guide. I hope the people who are bashing me spend a lot of money on a shitty hunt so they understand. I guess I should do more DIY hunts instead. The main guide guided my brother and a buddy and left them for 2 and a half days by themselves while he went to main camp. This hunt sucked so I will never go with them again.
I'd be pissed too if.....
We had good weather the whole week.
If I (Bronco) was in good shape.
Aside from that, if I go on a week long elk hunt (guided) and a guide can't even put me on one elk somethings wrong. I'm not talking about a drop camp, but guided. Do units/areas really matter if you know there are elk there and you know the area? I don't think so.
I've never been on a guided hunt, but don't guides look for spots that hold elk before you arrive?
Bob or no Bob if I was a guide, I would have let you know we're in for a tough hunt before you arrived.
Sounds like pretty lousy guiding and I know Jaquomo is an excellent hunter but to call out Texas hunters as overweight and out of shape is in poor taste. Ya, I'm from Texas and definitely not a mountain man but can hang with hard hunting.
It's hard for anyone that lives below 7000 feet in flat country to have the same effort as a hunter that lives at 9000ft. Sounds like a bad hunt though, man am I glad I'm from Oklahoma.
Well bronco, I think guys were questioning you simply because you came out and said the outfitter sucked. No story of what had happened or any other facts. It does sound like you got a bum deal,based on your story, wondering if you complained,to,the outfitter? I think had you put your story in the first post guys would not of jumped on you.
Lbshooter is spot on, I'm sure everyone on here has had a rough go on elk over the years. Not sure why an outfitter on public would be void of this? Sounds like a crappy hunt, but I would need more info to say the "outfit sucked". Some of use on here have guided and have different experiences on taking hunters.
Flash, I was referring to a specific hunter I guided from Texas who was overweight, unprepared, and expected me to magically make a bull appear because he paid his money. In his mind, "busting his ass" meant climbing up a gradual ridge after getting off an ATV, then stopping for a smoke. He didn't understand the effort and conditioning needed to hunt elk, even on a private ranch.
If I was guiding in an area with sparse elk that weren't where I expected them to be, I'd be covering a lot of ground, fast, glassing and locator bugling every ten minutes. There is nothing more irritating to a guide than a hunter trying to tell him what to do during a difficult and frustrating hunt. A hunt should be a cooperative partnership between guide and hunter. Could be he was a bad guide with an attitude for some reason.
There must have been a reason why the guide didn't think you could go four more hours. How much horseback prep did you and your friends do before the hunt? For a non-horseman, 8 hours in the saddle can be a killer, never mind 12. It is the guide's responsibility to look out for the well-being of his hunters. Why did he think you couldn't go another 4 hours? As for the guide meeting up with you 8 hours later on the first morning, I suspect there may be two sides to this story.
Bronco, thanks for the explanation. From the reviews of this outfitter, it sounds like your experience was diametrically opposed to the norm. What was the outfitters response when you told him everything that went down? Not doubting your perspective but this seems way out of line for an established company like this. There are definitely some bad and inexperienced guides out there, and the outfitter should make it right with you guys.
Why pay someone to do what you could have done on your own. A little research and you will find elk on your own. DIY!
bronco this was probably not your fault but one thing is for sure..........nobody on here but you can assess if it was.
I am curious what research you did on the hunt.
I have been on 57 guided hunts over 30+ years and have never had a bad outfitter or experience. some only good while most great. some I tried to do on the lower cost end and got a lower quality result, but that was not a surprise it was an educated chance I knowingly took. never a bomb result though where it was a unwarranted disaster. some of that is because many of those have been repeat trips to same operation, but even my one and done trips have been with the right service providers and they met my going in expectations BECAUSE MY EXPECTATIONS WERE WELL INFORMED GOING IN.
it is so easy to pick good outfitters and has been for decades. what was your vetting process because one thing is for sure.............it did not work for you this time around.
You can have same result on a diy!!
It's interesting reading about guy's experiences with guides and outfitters. I've never paid for a guide and most likely never will. I've NEVER gone through an entire elk bow season where I didn't at least get into some elk (just lucky I guess). Some seasons I've only spent a total of 4 or 5 days in the woods and this is in Otc/easy to draw units in Colorado and Utah. This was my 8th season with a bow. I'm the type to much prefer being able to do as I please on my hunts don't think I'd get much satisfaction in following a "guide" around. If I've learned anything about elk hunting it's to keep moving until you find elk or super fresh elk sign. As stated above hunt elk where they are, not where they were.
10 days and not one elk. Was't there so don't know where the blame goes But I think that qualifies as a SUCK HUNT.
IMHO, one of the most important things a good outfitter should do is set the proper expectations before the client puts his money down. Otherwise, unhappy clients are inevitable because they are expecting a different hunt than what they will get.
If the normal hunt outcome in an area is for some hunters to not see a single elk during the entire hunt then the outfitter should make sure his clients understand that. If the ride in will take two days then that should be explained. If a hunt is too tough for a fat Texan then that should have been explained. All this explaining should be done before money is paid.
Should the client ask these questions? Sure. But if he doesn't, the outfitter should provide the info anyway to set expectations and avoid grumpy clients.
Good points all, Aspen Ghost. In my limited experience, many hunters planning big game hunts tend to overestimate their physical condition and shooting ability. Among some, there is a belief that paying the money = a guaranteed animal, vs a guaranteed mountain experience that may lead to an animal if all goes well.
IMO, the very best vetting a prospective hunter can do is phone conversations with several recent clients who were successful and also some who were not. They will give the real story and expectations.
Most outfitters are busy managing the logistics for current and future hunts, and overseeing the operation. It's the guides and the hunters who are together on the mountain. The outfitter listens to bitching from both sides. So talking to other former hunters is the most important way to get the real understanding of expectations. And, every guide is different- personalities, habits, attitude, ego, experience, how they go about conducting the hunt.
Once I had a guy who told me up front that he was inexperienced and wanted me to teach him as much as possible. So I did. We had a great time, had several close calls, but no bull. Afterward he continued hunting by himself, killed a bull, and wrote me a wonderful letter thanking me for everything I taught him, saying he used my tactics to kill the bull, and that he wouldn't have done it without my mentoring.
That's the kind of hunter guides love, vs the guy who treats us like some unskilled laborers there to skin their animals, and they know more than we do because they've been elk hunting five times. For all I know, Bronco may be like the former, and just had a bad guide.
Hey Bronco, If you (or anyone for that matter) want to get on here and post negative comments about an outfitter or any other product you purchased I am totally good with that and appreciate you taking the time to warn me. And I sincerely hope that others will continue to post bad experiences that might keep me from wasting my time or money on a bad product. With that being said, I have a brain and fully realize the following: 1). I don't know you Bronco and you might be the laziest elk hunter every born. "Working my butt off" has a very different meaning for different people. 2) elk hunting can be very easy and it can be very tough..... and both in the same area. I have worked my butt off and come up empty and I have driven 20 hours parked the truck and had a 330 bull on the ground in less than an hour. 3). There is a possibility you are full of crap and had extremely high and unrealistic expectations and you are now just flaming at the outfitter because things didn't go your way. I have a brain and fully realize all of this and more. So please keep posting your experiences and I will make my own decisions whether or not to head your warnings. As others have said .... A few more details would be nice. On a separate but related note.... The things that drive people to post on here ( including myself) are somewhat fascinating. A guy post something negative about a product and the guy gets somewhat attacked. But if someone post something from the media about the wrongdoing of another hunter (particularly one that has ever been on TV) and it is an immediate attempt to set the world record for the number of post attacking the hunter. Since when did the media care about facts? They only care about a sensationilized story regardless of what the facts are....And apparently they are right. Truely fascinating
Mike TN
This isn't the place to voice an opinion when a Man's lively hood is at stake. There are always two sides. Any parent knows that! Put your opinion on the outfitter reviews on this page and lets see what the outfitter has to say about it. Maybe he is a bad one, maybe not.
Some parts of the story don't make sense to me and I have a feelings that there is a little more to the story than what is being told. The fact that you didn't see an animal is bad, but maybe something out of the outfitters control had something to do with that. As far as finding animals, most outfitters have a designated area and if the animals are not their or haven't migrated their- then your out of luck-that's why its called hunting. If your that far back, unless he owns a plane-he has no way of knowing what is out their until he takes the horses back in. Telling a outfitter what to do is never a good thing. Maybe you got off to a bad start and it went south from their. Next time do a drop or a DIY hunt so you have no one to blame and slam but yourself.
Bronco, How about posting your experience via an Outfitter Review here and give the Outfitter a chance to respond? Just an idea.. I'm not saying what you've stated isn't accurate, but I think it's only fair to give the outfitter a chance to respond...
I've done 3 guided hunts in the past 4 years. I ask for references, of course, but an outfitter isn't going to provide the name of a hunter who had a bad experience, so I've started looking at Outfitter reviews on this site as well as a couple of others. On the others, they charge a couple bucks to access their reviews, but it's money well spent. I wouldn't consider booking with any outfitter without reading some reviews by other hunters...
I've also started contacting the Fish & Game department and ask for the name and contact info of the Warden that covers the area I'm considering booking a hunt in. I call and ask if they have had any complaints about the outfitter and/or if there is anything I should be aware of. I've done this twice and the wardens are more than happy to visit with me. Just saying.....
Research, Research, Research... You can't do too much.
Just as well use the money paid to guides to buy access to an area with opportunity and go diy. I have a friend that just spent 6000 total dollars on a central Colorado guided hunt. He killed the 1st bill he had a chance at on day three, a 240ish bull. He was happy with the experience but for the same money he could have bought a unit wide land owner voucher for a great unit with the average bull being over 300" and gone diy for 2 weeks or more. For someone that is able bodied and a skilled hunter it seams a no brainer to me. No one to blame but myself is what I prefer.
Maybe it's just me and I've never used a guide, but I guess the only thing I can think of that would make a bad guide is one that did not have sound hunting knowledge or one that didn't do his homework and at least knew where to find game.
I've never been on a guided hunt. I cannot imagine 10 days in back country without seeing an elk. I would think that would be hard to do.
If the elk are not their its hard to see them. That would be very depressing but its hunting-I'm sure the outfitter didn't enjoy the experience either. Locked up in the mountains for 10 days and not seeing game with hunters who are hunting hard -would be tough. But if your a reasonable person, it's not the end of the world. Beats working-Learn by it...
I'm leaving tomorrow on a 5 day drop camp- solo - no one to complain to but myself-Colorado 1st Rifle with a resident herd usually in that area each year.. My expectations are that the outfitter meets me at the designated spot on time, that the horses are tame, my tent is dry and he has the equipment up there that is in the contract-and that he picks me up on time and packs out an animal if I get one. If he does that then I'm happy- If I get a bull great, if not its ok. I'm hunting! what a Gift from God. Seeing the mountains again and being able to hunt is a privilege-I'm good. If its a bad experience I will try to make it a good one, but I wont post it here and try to wreck a lively hood.
Montana Backcountry Outfitters: On their web page in the Photo Gallery, I do not see a single elk picture that includes a bow/arrows...although some of the hunters aren't wearing blaze orange (so you'd assume they are bowhunters).
Just an observation...
Best of Luck, Jeff
"And there's nothing more irritating to an experienced hunter than a guide who knows nothing about how to hunt." Dave, seems like hotshot hunter like you shouldn't need a guide.
If you read my posts above, I acknowledged that that also happens. It works both ways. You take it up with the outfitter and if he's honest and reputable and you're telling the truth (slippery slope here...), he should make it right with you. Outfitters know who they are hiring, and frankly, because of the low wages, long hours and hard work, they have to work with what they can get. Not a lot of guys lining up to be elk guides, and those who are, are often young guys with more energy than experience. Established outfitters sometimes call me to ask if I know anyone who they can train as a guide. The outfitter knows if a kid is green and inexperienced.
But posting something on here where it's one-sided and we know nothing about Bronco, only what he says vs. what all the other folks who provide glowing reviews of this outfit, well...
Bronco, what did the outfitter say when you detailed this experience to him?
I love these threads, always a one-sided rant and never seems like the full story, but most common is that they didn't kill anything...
I guided a fishing trip last year with a bunch of 30-year-old frat dudes and their dads. There were a couple guys who had never fly fished before so naturally we ended up spending a majority of the time instructing them, and just checking in on the other guys once in a while and giving a few pointers. One guy, who had three 40-50 fish days in a row, bitched at the end of the trip that we hadn't guided him enough. He didn't tip at all. The couple guys who had never fished and caught maybe 10-15 fish each all trip showed the most gratitude (and tipped the best). I'd love to hear how each of them remembers that weekend.
Thanks for the warning Bronco, but if I were to ever do a guided hunt I'd probably do a whole lot of research on the front end before I book it. But I'll probably never do a guided hunt unless I get to Alaska...
Ohio hunter- enjoyed your post on your hunt by the way in NM- I hunted the Rio Costillo ,close to where you went. Great country.
If my outfitter is bad I will use these channels- will post a report on a Outfitter review and if it was real bad report to the outfitters professional association and State board of licensing. I have guided in Wisconsin for 41 years both fisherman and hunters. If a guide deserves attention then so be it, but we are only hearing one side. When the name is mentioned I think its unfair. I stand by my post- don't slam someone by name on a public forum-- there are better ways to do it. As a professional-that is how I would want to have it settled. Actually a man to man conversation is always the best. maybe this outfitters owes him a free hunt? or maybe not. I guess I, just old school but that's how I would do it. If a law is broken or somebody gets hurt-- then by all means alert people.
I think the majority of outfitters are very hardworking and reputable. If they're not, the way information travels at the speed of light on the internet these days, bad outfitters will not be in business very long.
I've heard some stories from some of the guides I've had regarding hunters they've guided that are both hilarious and sad. I suspect the bad hunters guides and outfitters have had to put up with outnumber the bad outfitters 100 to 1 or better... A couple "Hunters" on trips I've been on shouldn't have been there. One wouldn't even carry his own gun...the guide had to carry it for him. Another wouldn't get out and tie the boat up (moose hunt) when they stopped to call.. The guide had to crawl to the front of the boat, get out and tie it up, and then help the "hunter" get out of the boat.
Guiding is hard work.. Good guides are up early and to bed late and they are under a lot of pressure to produce game.. They have to deal with all kinds of personalities and situations. It's a tough business.
Dave, understood, and my "hotshot hunter" comment to you was out of line.
Bronco, thx for the heads up.
I've been on both sides of this- the guide with a crummy client.... and the hunter with a crummy guide.
The take away;
Elk hunting is tough....hiring a guide on public ground doesn't guarantee you squat.
Classy post ohiohunter. Did someone piss in your coffee this morning?
Beendare - "I've been on both sides of this- the guide with a crummy client.... and the hunter with a crummy guide."
I hope there have been some good hunters and guides at the same time mixed in there somewhere!
I 'guided' my brother for the last 2 days of rifle mule deer season last year. On both days, we spotted wonderful mule deer in the morning and spent the rest of the day getting him into a good shooting distance on the unaware bucks. Missed. Both times (thank goodness cleanly). We both came out of those two days not wanting to be guides or clients again (at least with each other).
No, I don't. That was a harsh and uncalled for response to Hayguide's really benign comment. I think his point was to have reasonable expectations and try to enjoy it for what it is. His response was probably one of the most level headed and calm responses so far. I actually had to read Hayguide's comment twice to see if I missed something that would have provoked you saying, "IMO, you're no better than that POS guide."
Exactly where did he kick him?
pretty sure I made it clear. If you have a problem you can pm me. This is Broncos thread.
Better watch it Andy. Don't upset the self-anointed Bowsite police.
And the gang grows. Inbox is still empty.
Hopefully bronco has taken some advice and has taken his case to someone who can help him find reconciliation. Though nothing will replace his time.
This thread has opened my eyes a little when it comes to my guided expectations.
I have never been on a guided hunt...yet. But it sounds to me like my expectations are too high when I thought they were just realistic.
IMO to hire a guide would be for 2 reasons, and in this order. 1st because they know where the animals are. 2nd they know the land/area im drawn for and paying the guide for and I dont.
I didn't realize it shouldn't be expected that a guide knows where the Elk are in a given unit. From my point of view I can poke around in an area and not find one Elk too and I dont need to pay anything for that.
Going on a 10 day hunt and not seeing one elk when im there to ELK HUNT not nature watch after spending that kind of money and time would not be a good experience to me either.I guess if that's not a realistic expectation then I should never go guided.
I agree with a few that doing a LOT of research is in order.
GotBow, respectfully, I think your reasons are reversed. The guide should know the country and the habitat. He should know different places where elk frequent or are likely to be sometimes. But as you know, there are many variables that affect where elk may be, and they travel long distances. A young, green elk guide may only know the country (ie.. Local kid who grew up in the area and maybe hunted it a few years, or maybe not).
On a huge private ranch next to the ones where I guided, they charged $7000 for a 7 day hunt, and often hired young local guys who had never been on the ranch before their "orientation" in the summer. They had no clue and hunted some areas exactly backward, blowing up elk their hunters should have killed.
Where I guided, I knew the country and the elk inside out because I'd hunted the mountain for a couple decades when it was public land and spent most of the bow season in there. Even so, every day was a new search for elk because they move so much. Sometimes I'd find a couple herds one evening, and the next day we wouldn't see an elk.
But I agree with the OP that ten days without seeing one is really put of whack.
I wasn't trying to be harsh with "my Learn By It" I follow that motto myself. We can all learn by both good and bad experiences. In Bronco's case it was a bad one for sure- is the outfitter a bad one or did he hire a guide who was not a experienced guide for the camp and bumped the elk out of that country? Then that would be a good question for his next hunt if he didn't ask it. I can go on and on with questions-but it's research that sends red flags out-but sometimes even with that things come up out of the control for outfitter-in that case nothing can be predicted- its no ones fault. But if the outfitter sent a bad guide up the hill-he needs to make it right. Other questions might be ..Does he get the same guides every year or is there a turn over? Who is guiding this hunt for my group ?doe the name match up to the references that he called-that kind of stuff. What are the migrations in that area, snow likely or is there a resident herd, Predation reports-wolf? Division of Wildlife population reports, Bull to Cow ratio, fires, road access from trailhead pressure, water drought, all research stuff that may help. If the outfitter has had that area for a long time he or she is probably good-otherwise the word gets out quick and the state will step in with enough reports and take action as well. But if its a good outfitter but the herd is depleted-then that's a flag. Pictures of big bulls from 15-20 years ago on the website??? So my phrase was meant in that text..Live and Learn -or that's hunting --nothing personal. I hope my hunt in Colorado 1st season Rifle goes better than Bronco's next week. Its a drop camp 5 miles out at 9500' on Public land-about 20 Miles North Of Bayfield Colorado-unit 751 - I did a lot of research and this outfitter he has been in that area 20 years-nothing bad in any hunting outfitter reviews and the locals I called for a motel on each end all said he was legit. Local resident herd of elk most of the time if there is moisture with Migration if there is more than a foot of snow-which is unlikely with the forcast. I booked in March-a drought this past summer would be out of his control. If there are no elk on that hill with that said-it wouldn't be the outfitters fault since he cant move camps on a whim with his forest service contracts. Good news is Its rained a lot in that area. I have a full moon-not the best thing but I did kill my biggest bull in 2010 (316 6x6) in this same area on a Do it your self hunt at a trail head with a full moon in 2012 as well. So that's always a factor as well- we will see. He was listed as a Colorado outfitter with good standing. His references all checked out -I called 2 or 3 from different camps that were all repeats...I feel good about it. So this is what I meant with Learn by it! That's all I could do on my hunt. My drop camp hunt is $2000.00 to the outfitter, not as bad as Broncos- but $2000.00 is $2000.00. Will I get a surprise-maybe but that's always the gamble on a outfitted drop or guided hunt. But no matter what its better than work! I Guide and have a daytime job, I can relate to saving up time and anticipating a hunt as much as the next guy.
The whole attitude that "Just because there was no elk doesn't mean he's a bad outfitter" Is kind of a joke in my opinion. It is wrong to charge "dudes" that kind of money in a PUBLIC LAND area that you aren't good enough to produce in. Or in an area you as an outfitter know is really just "not that good". Newbies like that are counting on you as an expert to outfit areas you can produce in. No such thing as 100%, but everyone on this thread with knowledge has commented on how poor the hunting in the Bob has become. So you guys mean to tell the OP that outfitter didn't know the same thing when he took his hard earned money. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I can tell you that IN MY OPINION, anyone charging someone to hunt on public land better damn well have done enough home work to at least "show them" some elk, or it should seriously call in to question the character of the individual who chose to advertise the hunt, and then take that money... JMHO
Good points-I take out bear hunters and fisherman in Northern Wi-plenty of bear-but I certainly would take on hunters if they disappeared, the same with fish. The outfitter could switch to deer or some other game to retain his permits and stop taking money from Elk hunters ... if its that bad. I have heard that herd is down, but I don't think its down and out yet.
I live an hours drive from the trail heads that Montana Backcountry Outfitters use to access their hunting area. Although I don't hunt the Bob I have hunted the Great Bear Wilderness for over 30 years. The Great Bear borders the Bob to the north. I did some scouting this summer in some new burns in the area and was disappointed in the lack of game sign particularly elk.
Within a week of scouting, by pure coincidence, I ran into an outfitter that hunts out of the Great Bear just north of the Bob. I asked him about his opinion of our game populations in the area. He told me he refunded a considerable amount of money and cancelled hunts for this year. His reason was he was not confident he could get the hunters on elk. A stand up guide for sure.
I made contact with the head biologist for region 1 and talked with him about the populations. His reply was that the upper South Fork, which is the Bob Marshall area, was seeing a serious decline in elk population. He speculated a number of reasons from habitat loss, grizzly predation on calves, and last wolf pressure. He said they were studying the problem. I'll say that the guide directly contributed the lack of game to wolves. I would be curious to hear from Bronco what kind of picture Montana Backcountry Outfitters painted of his chances of seeing or killing elk.
Ohio Hunter-- Yes on the second rut- Oct 15-21ismy hunt. Every year I hear bugling the 1st few days and mostly at night- but the pressure from the sea of orange on the hillsides can slow that down. I did call a bull out of dark timber for a shot in this same area-on Oct 17th a few years ago. Hopefully being back 5 miles helps me with that.
That area must be down by the report. A good outfitter shouldn't take those hunters if its that bad. Not sure but there was a an area that I thought was the Bob m that allowed Rifle hunting in the Sept peak of the rut. That would be to easy! The deer herd in Northern Wisconsin where I live has had the same problem-Wolf Black Bear have all & but wiped out our herd in places- We have 1000 wolfs in a 6 county area ! and combined with two winters that had snow and Ice on the ground and lakes to May 15th- it took a horrible toll on fawns and adult bucks-as well as mature Does not having fawns and not giving Birth. We also had to many years of antlerless Deer hunts that added to the decline. We have a reputation in Northern Wisconsin as big Buck, big woods country--so someone could benefit from the past just like they may be in Bob M and have a horrible hunt here if they didn't know the country. I'm in a buck only area with zero doe harvest going on 2 years. I would not guide a deer hunter here- use to but until things turn around it wouldn't be worth it for the client or my health knowing its gonna be slim pickings.
I was told elk numbers are up this year in the bob. I did do some research on this hunt but I guess not enough. I did see a grizzly bear and a lot of tracks.
The only guided hunts I've been on were for Quebec caribou. First trip, our boat drivers (guides) were great but the camp manager was a rude jerk, and outright lied to us when the owner offered to send planes to relocate us someplace where there were bou. He told us there were none there either and if we went there we had to shoot the first bou we saw using rifles, not bows. We later learned that the other place was overrun with bulls and everyone there had tagged out in the first couple days with bows.
Afterward we wrote letters to the owner (very reputable outfit) and he offered all six of us another highly-discounted hunt. We did it, had a great time, and that camp manager treated us like royalty the second time.
Things happen, and high-quality outfitters will generally do something to fix it if the allegations are legit and supported.
My drop camp operator was great-Elk were tough- 70degrees at 10,500 ft-are you kidding me. It snowed the week before. Full moon was tough as well-the elk left the openings for dark timber before day light -except on day 3 of my hunt. Never heard a bugle-but the wife says I'm deaf. This bull and a smaller 5-5 went over the hill on a north face out of a small park into dark timber-they were 1 mile away. I set up and ambushed them as the came out with only 5 minutes of lite left. This is a bow site I know- but my schedule allows no Elk bow hunting with my Sept bear hunt I conduct. 4 bow hunters had this same camp with no luck around mid Sept-they said the area was poor. I saw all kinds of rubs and a fresh wallow 1/2 mile from camp. Not sure what happened with them. Outfitter said bow hunting is a different game for these bulls-I agree.
My drop camp operator was great-Elk were tough- 70degrees at 10,500 ft-are you kidding me. It snowed the week before. Full moon was tough as well-the elk left the openings for dark timber before day light -except on day 3 of my hunt. Never heard a bugle-but the wife says I'm deaf. This bull and a smaller 5-5 went over the hill on a north face out of a small park into dark timber-they were 1 mile away. I set up and ambushed them as the came out with only 5 minutes of lite left. This is a bow site I know- but my schedule allows no Elk bow hunting with my Sept bear hunt I conduct. 4 bow hunters had this same camp with no luck around mid Sept-they said the area was poor. I saw all kinds of rubs and a fresh wallow 1/2 mile from camp. Not sure what happened with them. Outfitter said bow hunting is a different game for these bulls-I agree.
Well we have heard one side of the story, only thing left to hear is the other two sides!
looks like a couple good reviews on this site for this outfitter. always two sides
I sympathize with anyone who buys an outfitted hunt in the bob marshall and expects to see many elk. Im a montana who hunts the Bob most years. The outfitters are into running mass throughput for lots of money. If they see a small buck or bull its toast. Its a scenery and wilderness experience, they have made it into the lowest success rate hunt by over industrialized hunting. dont go there expecting to notch a tag.
