Contributors to this thread:
Does anyone know for sure: Since non resident hunters can hunt wilderness areas with a guide can a non resident with a guide license hunt it on his or her own?
Maybe the question is does it have to be a contracted hunt?
In the reading I have, a non-resident must be accompanied by a hired guide or a resident-guide (who can get a free license to guide two hunters per year, and must have a hunting license as well).
I don't see how either of those two conditions is satisfied by your hypothetical situation.
Only if you are a licensed WY guide
Yes I meant licensed to guide in Wyoming. In other words if I'm a Pa resident guiding in Wyoming can I hunt wilderness on my own.
Bullelk1 where are you? Lol
If you were a licensed guide in WY who can legal take Non-Res hunters hunting in wilderness. They would have one hell of time arguing that you couldn't take your self.
Interesting question. It would be completely insane if you weren't allowed to do so. Legally you take anyone else there to hunt and show them the ropes, but you couldn't do it yourself.
IMO, the whole law is ridiculous. I can go into wilderness area to camp, hike and enjoy it but I cant go into it to hunt without a guide. really?
It doesn't matter how dumb the law is, it is the law.
MP, if you do, be very careful. You might get lost without our stoner hippie chick "resident guide" to lead you back to Dubois..
MP, The law doesn't say it has to be a contracted hunt (residents can take people out without $ changing hands). The way I read it you must be accompanied by a guide so I don't see how you can accompany yourself or it would have probably been tried before I'm guessing. I don't like the law either and I'm a resident and I don't see the law changing anytime soon. Good luck to you.
Might be an instance where you need to call Cheyenne.
What would happen to a non resident hunting in the wilderness without a guide if they caught?
You get a fine (can't remember what it is) a record, maybe loose rights to hunt/fish. Is it worth it?
Leave it to MP to come up with a head scratcher! lol! Just got off the phone with G&F here in Cheyenne. The lady said she believed the answer was yes, you could go in unaccompanied, but she wasn't 100% on that. She's going to do some research and give me a call when she talks to the people that know the answer. I'll post whenever she does.
patdel, since it would be a G&F violation, they could confiscate your weapon, vehicle, etc, to be used as evidence. You'd be making at least one return trip back to Wyoming once it was teleased, twice if you had to make a court appearance. Not to mention a fairly stiff fine and possible loss of hunting privileges. Not saying all this would happen, but certainly not worth the risk IMO.
That was quick! Just got a call back from G&F. As long as you are a currently licensed guide in the state of Wyoming, yes, you can hunt in a designated wilderness area unaccompanied.
That's interesting. Wonder what it takes to become a licensed guide?!
Wyobullshooter..if that's the case definitely not worth the risk to me, if it were the equivalent of a speeding ticket, however I probably wouldn't worry much.
I ask because I do know a group I'm relatively certain has been doing it with leftovers for years. Not 100% sure. But I'd place a good bet. They do well, and never have any problems.
I think there is gonna be a rush on Wyoming licensed guide applications...
patdel, I'm sure it happens, and quite frankly, this isn't something that's high on their priority list. That said, lots of people get away with breaking the law, but eventually the odds of being caught will catch up with them. Don't hold me to it, but $750 sticks in my mind for the fine.
if you are licensed in WY hire yourself and you should be covered imo.
Kintuck... not legal. Guides cannot take money, or any type of compensation for that matter in exchange for services. Only a licensed outfitter can do that. I do know a thing or three.......
I know one thing... I'm not interested in doing anything that could result in the loss of my hunting privileges. The Bowsite roast alone would not be worth it!
Plus I have a conscience which is all that really matters.
Call me "skeptical" -- even of the answer from the game and fish. But ... perhaps if you could get something in writing ... perhaps.
I've heard this same question asked about Alaska ... and no, non-resident guides cannot guide themselves (in that case to bear, sheep, and goat) in AK. If that's true, let's hope the lawmakers in Cheyenne don't get wind of it.
My suspicion is that, like many laws, this one is vague for a reason: Selective prosecution. If they don't like you, they can prosecute. If they do like you, home free.
This is something I considered a couple years back and decided it wasn't worth it after I looked into it. If I remember right, you have to have liability insurance and whatnot.
Liability insurance would probably be pretty cheap, especially if you required an indemnification agreement from yourself.
Actually, I think you had to be bonded.
Looked into this a few moons ago, the application has to be signed by an outfitter.
Idyll, Do you recall the bonding requirements? In my experience bonding is typically 1.5-3% of the contract amount, which would be next to negligible. Maybe WY requires some sort of bond, but I have no idea how they could possibly have damages from a breached contract, which is what the bonds cover.
On a side note WY takes in way more federal $ than they contribute. WY will never change this rule, as it's pretty much outfitter welfare that "out of stater's pay", so who cares. They will definitely care if your representatives hit them in the pocket book. If memory serves me correct they were one of the last states to change the legal drinking age to 21 and get rid of their open container law because their highway funds were threatened. Politics is the only way this will be changed, and considering most legislators don't even hunt, they probably don't even know about this. As hunters, we can fix this if we want, but we'll need to get organised and put forth some effort. Since Mule Power started this thread I nominate him to spear head this effort.:)
Reads like ya got your answer Joe.
Good for you
Good luck, Robb
A guide does not insure himself. He doesn't own a business. He is working under an outfitter who must be insured. You just need to be sponsored by an outfitter and pay the fee. Applicants must pass a background check too. It's worth it.
Very interesting. I may just know a guy... (Or two!) LOL!
What's the purpose of the law in the first place????
What's the purpose of the law in the first place????
Simple---It's a subsidy for outfitters and nothing more!
Isn't it just easier to pick up a hippie chick in Laramie to accompany you?
Much easier. She has to buy a license though. Wolf license was the cheapest to buy as I recall, but now she has to pick something else. :^)
Something must have changed because I remember a non-resident guide not being allowed to hunt alone in wilderness. The law hindered my 2016 sheep hunt.
To clarify I am not a guide just a non-resident.
I'd like to get that answer in writing Wyo. I bet it's one of those things that is determined by how much sleep the CO got the night before and could result in the very least at the end of a hunt.
I'm interested in pursuing the idea though. So much wilderness to hunt with none of you guys in it! haha
What's weird is I grew up in Wyo and hunted wilderness pretty much every year for elk. Now that I moved out of state I need a guide to hunt that same country as a greenhorn kid! I did some super crazy and spooky stuff as a kid while hunting in Wyo wilderness areas that there is no way I'd do now that I have experience under my belt...but need a "guide!" It's the same crazy deal in Alaska. Nonres are required to hunt with a guide for certain species (dall sheep, mtn goat, grizz, and brown bear). Residents that just move to Alaska or just start out hunting don't need a guide for these species. I'm sure there are steep learning curves for new Alaska residents that hit the backcountry while many nonres may have a lifetime of survival skills and experience.
The thing that would make a lot of sense would require res/nonres of Wyo or Alaska to take a survival and wilderness prep class to hunt in wilderness or participate in hunting a particular game species in Alaska. If each state is truly concerned about unforeseen dangers/risks that can occur in wilderness/backcountry they should likely educate hunters so they are less likely to happen.
I'm pretty sure that "wilderness " areas are protection to outfitters. That said , I hunted Wyoming 's non -wilderness area in sheep unit 5 this season. And there was more than enough room in just that unit alone to hunt for years. Hundreds of square miles of non wilderness area loaded with sheep and elk. And I'm convinced that all mountains I hunted were as wild as the mountaims on the other side of peaks that were in the designated wilderness.
Also, 100% convinced the mountains in the non wilderness could have killed me just as easily as the mountains in the wilderness. Non - wilderness mountains are just as dangerous.
All said , I love that state and the people in it. And the hunting it provides. Can't thank Wyoming enough for the chance to hunt sheep in my lifetime. Even if I didn't get to hunt that mythical place they call " wilderness "
It is unbelievable that this law still exists!
I've found I don't need a Wyoming wilderness to have some great elk hunting in that state.
And I don't see near the number of hunters and horses I did in the wilderness.
Go to the wilderness guys. Go deep while you're there too :)
It's a bit of a shame that public land is off limits to those that enjoy hunting without a guide! Kindof tells you the sway outfitters/politics have in making wildlife related decisions.
Cnelk believe me I know a bazillion square miles of non wilderness with non limited quota tags that have great hunting. I kill my elk in places like that every year as do my clients.
I never said "go deep". You know me better than to think I'm at that stage of the elk hunting game. I camp at the truck in General units and kill bulls consistently. Why would I change those logistics? But I also know spots not far in that are worth setting a camp for because of 1 reason or another.
Who wouldn't want to be able to hunt wilderness if they could? There are less non residents and then there is the main reason I look outside of my usual box and that's the never ending quest for bigger bulls. I know an outfitter on the Gros Ventre that went 28 for 31 last year with a 370 at the top of the list. Not the best year for them either. I've seen (drooled over) 340 to 380 bulls lined up in their barn. The Cloud Peak Wilderness is calling my name too as are some of the places closer to Yellowstone that hold the 400+ inchers that end up dropping sheds on the National Elk Refuge. There's gold in them thar hills pilgrim! The gold dust is just fine but what miner doesn't like to see a few big nuggets along the way? Dream big dude! You're just cnelk.... I'm cnmonsters. lol
