Backcountry Elk Hunt With Mules .
Elk
Is there anyone out there thats used mules or horses to pack in with to bow hunt thats had any trouble with predators when leaving their mounts unattended when their away from them hunting ? Planning a hunt this year and intend to use my animals to pack in for a couple days at a time before returning to base camp. Whats anyone thats done this preferred method to keep them ? hobbling them at night to graze and tied to a high line during day if your hiking out . Any suggestions ?
So far so good for me with the predators. I think with mules especially you'd be okay. I hunt where there are cats and black bears, but have yet to take my horses in Grizz country. I know quite a few guys who do without any major problems. I normally just tie mine to a tree with 3 or so feet of slack lead rope and leave them while I'm hunting. They're usually tired enough that they don't have any issues standing tied for long periods. In the middle of the day I'll let them graze while I'm eating lunch or relaxing.
High lining is always a good plan though. Hobbling is okay as long as they don't know how to hop! In my experience they'll figure it out quick enough, but there's ways to fix that too. Packer cubes are a good bet if you can't stash hay ahead of time.
You plan on bringing your stock from Wisconsin? Man, 18-20hrs in a trailer, then up the mtn. They not gonna like you :)
I've done my share of hunting with horses over the years. They can be really handy, and the next minute a real PITA. When you're out hunting, they are always on your mind. When in camp, they need your attention. When packing stuffi n/out they are awesome.
I like the high line, works best so they can move around some. The Prusik knot is your friend.
Should be plenty of grass during archery season for them to graze with hobbles, with rotating them around.
Good luck!
I hope you have hunted the area before and know for sure that you will get enough use out of them to justify the time it takes o deal with them every day. I'd never take stock into an area blind.
That said if you do have a use for them by all means go for it. I use stock every year and have for a long time. Never had a predator issue. The only issue I've ever had was ending up damn far from where they were tied off and having to go back to get them when camp was closer or the opposite way.
Screw hobbling that asking for trouble. If there is trouble to be found horses or mules will find it. If you want to graze them you're better off using pickets. At night I prefer to highline or better yet cut a pole and take a couple ratchet straps to make a hitch rail.
The problem for me is not predators ... nor the hassle of feeding them ... but the worry. I kind of like my animals, and I worry about them when I'm gone. Also, I don't always want to return to a particular spot (like where the animal is tied up).
Also, if anything happened to them, my wife would have my hide on the wall!
Add it up and here's how I figure it: I think I'll work it out where I'll do a pack trip hunt every 3-4 years, but most of my hunts will be without them.
They don't (for me) seem worth it if you're coming from that far away. From that distance, you need mobility, and Plan B, C, and D. Tough to do when packed in anywhere, unless you're talking about a real extended trip.
I'll continue to use my animals for scouting every year -- that's where they shine, IMO. That, and the pack-out!
BTW
Thats me and Deertick in those top 3 pics of my thread above. He has some great horses
We've used mules and horses in wolf and griz country here in Idaho and never had problems. Even had fresh wolf sign several times within a couple hundred yards of camp and no issues. We use a battery powered fence charger to fence off grazing during the day and high line at night. Definitely prefer mules though. They're just smarter and less hassle than horses in my book.
We have used horses and mules in the high country of the Gila for over thirty years. We strictly high line and don't graze as not much grazing is available in our camp sites. Less hassle and we pack in high quality alfalfa/combination grain pellets. A few years ago we had the Luna Pack of about 9 wolves in our camp on a very dark night and the old alpha male brought them right into the middle of camp and started howling. They were very aggressive towards our mules and horses on the high line. We managed to run them off and a few minutes later they came back and became even more aggressive, yip yapping, growling and howling and making an ungodly racket. It took quite a bit of discouraging and very close to some big time shooting going on but they finally left. We knew the wolf plane had been flying their location flights that day and if we had of shot any of them we would have all landed in jail and I would have lost my permit. These same wolves went back towards the trailhead and the next day as we were going out with our pack string and clients we met up with a couple of young males whom said they were part of a big group of student hikers from the "green" Aldo Leopold High School from Silver City. They told us that the wolves came close to their camp and that two students were out gathering fire wood that day the wolves approached them and they climbed a tree in fear. Needless to say the liberal school leaders got the students out that day and were scheduled to come out two or three days later. They denied the whole story. Damn green wolf lovers! The Mexican gray wolf program has been pretty much a failure but these have been mostly pen raised wolves they release and they are dangerous as they are not afraid of humans. They are habituated and a true danger to humans. The program is in an expansion program to with the aim to greatly increase their recovery area and more than triple their supposed goal of 100 wolves to 300-350 wolves. Our industry is fighting the expansion with SCI International filing lawsuits and our industry and the Arizona/New Mexico Coalition of Counties which me and my family are co-plaintiffs and jointly we have already spent over $120,000 fighting the USFWS and the Center for Biological Diversity and Wild Earth Guardians. We figure it is going to cost us at least double that before the lawsuits are over. Hunters wake up! This is an onerous program and we need all of your help to combat this gross injustice on the people of the SW. I hate the sound of a wolf howl! It absolutely makes me sick to my stomach. These cruel apex predators eat their prey while they are alive! At least a mountain lion kills its prey before eating. There is talk of returning grizzlies back into this area. That is when I hang her up boys. They are a different story.
Thanks, Brad.
Horse packing is fun. Hunting is fun. Combining them CAN be fun, but -- like many things when brought together in combination -- the product is more than the sum of the parts.
For me, I really do like that combination -- but only on even-numbered years.
PM me, Birdman, if you want to talk over specifics.
(BTW ... I think this is the first Bowsite thread about horses that hasn't turned into a horse-hating disaster. Good job, Bowsite!)
"Definitely prefer mules though. They're just smarter and less hassle than horses in my book. "
I would have to agree with that for sure. A good saddle mule cannot be beat. Level headed geniuses and very sure footed.
Deertick I might be on the same page if I was using my own. Where I hunt the stock definitely goes through some wear and tear. I lease mine locally where I hunt and if one ends up with any issue they come swap it out for another one. The whole arrangement works out very well. I enjoy having stock on my hunts for general principles. They are like hunting buddies! We each take care of 2 each which is pretty easy. I like highlines but you need the right spot to set it up. The problem with them is the stock spins around directly underneath and stomps a good 20% of their feed into the mud and horse duds. It's really easy to ratchet strap a lodgepole to two trees to make a hitch rail. The hay goes right under the rail where nobody steps on it and I don't have to space the stock as far apart because they are on opposite sides of the rail. Nothing beats a saddle horse and a pack animal in an area where I can really use the heck out of them to get around and hunt the place hard.
Ever had a horse with a sense of humor? lol
I got nothing of value to add, but one of the funniest stories I ever read in a hunting mag was about using horses (by Eddie Claypool I think). It was funny because I was reading it. He lived it, and I don't think he was laughing, at least not at the time.
Hell I give anyone credit for having the ability to train horses or mules well enough to take y'all into the mountains..My horse nearly kills me once a week..In the damn pasture, on flat ground,,maybe I should just get another dog........
Thanks for the input , I've taken my mules to Montana & idaho several times with no issues. Even got to pack a couple bulls out with them . What i haven't done is pack in for a stay with them , always have rode back to base camp mid day or in the evening. The area i'am looking at i've ever hunted but know someone who has . Like your idea of making a hitch rail Mule Power, I've been driving straight to with in 3 hrs of where i hunt and boarding them at a rodeo grounds over night when going to where we hunt the next morning. Tried stopping half way out one time to let them out to walk around and drink but they weren't interested , decided it was better to keep them in trailer till i got close to where i hunt . I know it's along ways and they can be a pain in the ass , but it's what i love to do and the benefits out way the disadvantages .
It always amazes me Mulepower that people actually pack bales of hay into the wilderness. Also it amazes me that both backpackers and mule packers load the whole head on and not cape it and saw the antlers off. Much easier to pack. and load and a heck of a lot lighter. High line, use nose bags and feed pellets. Your horses and mules are always there and no time lost gathering early in the morning. I ride a good mule and pack good mules but we use big half draft horses to pack our mostly big hunters into the rough country.
I spoil my stock. My hunt schedule doesn't allow for much free roaming grazing so if I want them to have full bellies I pack hay. I'm not into the alfalfa cubes. Gives them the runs and the stuff is as hard as rocks. I'll pack some grain pellets too. As far as sawing racks off.... who the heck does that anymore? I can't fit another shoulder mount anywhere in the house so the whole head goes to the beetle cleaner to make a euro. I love a nicely done cleaned and whitened skull. If you peel the hide off and remove the bottom jaw the weight drops significantly. I will agree though a whole unskinned head is not easy or the safest to pack. I have one really bad horror story about that.
Mulepower,
If we packed hay I would have to hire another full time packer. We use Equidine combination alfalfa/grain pellets and our stock does just fine and they maintain their body weight throughout our three month season. We pack in over three ton every year. The equivalent in hay would be almost impossible, and besides some rich hay gives our mules and horses the runs, pellets don't. You have to make sure the stock is well watered with using pellets. We feed about 8 lbs. twice a day and have you ever soaked up 8 lbs. of pellets with water? They expand tremendously and fill my animals bellies just fine. We go in on some extremely steep trails and packing hay would be way to bulky and cumbersome. We have done this for over 30 years so it has proven a success for our operation. I know that many DIY guys have a hard time taking care of their stock in a wilderness setting and hope our ideas will help them to be successful in their horse/mule packing adventures.
Horses and mules require a lot of work and attention but it will enable you to cover more country and be more successful and save a lot of walking. Our operation depends on horses and mules to greatly increase our clients odds of taking their game and we hardly ever pack anything on our backs. The mules do that and that in itself saves on the old body so much. A group of DIY hunters when one kills, all of the others have to quit hunting and help their buddies pack the animal out especially during the warm months. Having stock is well worth the effort if you are fortunate to be able to acquire or keep the animals the rest of the year.
Yes I've soaked grain pellets in water.... by accident. lol A few times when on narrow trails I've broken bales down smaller and put them in panniers. I owned stock for years and years. These days I love leasing. No vet bills. No farrier bills. And no dead critters that were good friends of mine which is tough. But I'm leasing some darn good stock or I might feel differently. When I outfitted in Montana we would have guys take turns making hay runs while we set camp. It worked out pretty good. If I did intend to hay cubes only I would wean them onto it gradually instead of going straight from hay or pasture to eating rocks. lol I don't know anyone who feeds straight pellets but like lots of things different areas do things differently. I don't know anyone in Montana using sawbucks and I've never seen a decker in Wyoming.
FYI DIY guys for the most part don't mind helping each other. In a DIY camp there is an all for one and one for all mentality. There are pros and cons to hunting without an outfitter. The sense of self accomplishment cannot be duplicated. Also they can go back every year cheap which is good for keeping your partners who may not be able to afford an outfitted hunt every season.
To me one of the biggest benefits to stock whether hunting DIY or outfitted is saving my legs for when I REALLY need them. Instead of hiking my butt off looking for elk I put most of the boot leather down after I've seen them. Instead of wearing out as the hunt progresses I'm in good shape from beginning to end. That's priceless.
if your bringing your own stock from out of state you can stop at just about any county fair ground and they will board your animals and let you camp free,i wont say dont hobble dont highline just do what you do at home practice and train youll be fine,me living and hunting in colorado i dont worry about predators plus those mules arent gonna let anything come into camp and not let know,i dont bring any food for them on a 7 day bowhunt there is plenty of grass but i know my area well,when grazing i tie them with a long lead (i braided out of mule tape) about 22ft long and just snap into their halter and tie around the base of a tree,you can do that with mules wouldnt advise that with a horse and i hobble the only horse i bring,they graze from after the morning hunt til the afternoon hunt then tie them to a green tree high and tight been doing this method for 25 yrs with no issues,good luck in your equine adventures,Mule.
