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Bucks not rubbing

Anyone hunt localized areas where it seems the bucks just do not make many rubs?

I scouted a new area yesterday, walking about 3 miles of tremendous habitat (mixed prime age select cuts and oak woods) and only saw 2 little rubs. Hit all the likely spots...logging roads, edges, ridge lines, saddles. I know there is a decent deer population from the tracks and deer crap and my gut is telling me to stick with this spot. I hunt a similar area about 5 miles away as the crow flies, and that place was completely torn up this fall in comparison, but I feel the overall deer population in the two areas seems comparable. This is big woods so acorns are the food source, and there was a good crop in both areas. Hunting pressure is actually much more of a factor in the area that has rubs. I put some trailcams in this new place so we will see if that lends any insight.

My brother hunts a State Park in Ohio where he claims the bucks don't rub, and he has a couple PY bucks on his wall to prove they are there. I always thought his theory was a little bogus but now I am not so sure.

Anyone have similar experiences or insights into what herd dynamics would cause such a situation?

Is the land fairly flat and devoid of evergreens?

Genesis - It has some flats but certainly not Midwestern flat. There are hemlocks in the hollows and some mixed white pines. That's not a significant factor here though. The bucks prefer to rub sumac, striped maple, birches, sassafras, aspen, red maple, mountain laurel and other soft woods in roughly that order. Once in awhile they will rub pines or oak and those tend to be the perennial signpost rubs. Most of those species were present. Nothing to distinguish it from the place 5 miles away that is rubbed more heavily.

To answer your question....I do.Never could pinpoint why but areas can and do produce.

When I was growing up in the Western Piedmont of Va we rarely saw rubs, and never a scrape line. Now they are common. Deer populations are much higher now, but I don't think that's the whole reason.

I would say the rubs are there, you just did not find them. Studies show that some bucks make upwards of a couple hundred rubs a year and most make quite a few even young bucks. This time of year rubs are a bit harder to spot as well as they are not as fresh as we would find say in early dec. Scooby

Scoobs - I scout all winter and am familiar with spotting them as they age, so I can assure you that was not the case. Indeed there are certainly rubs that I did not see, probably near bedding areas in the midst of the cuts. Yet in this kind of woods I would always expect to see rubs in the typical rut travel corridors...cut edges, along the logging roads, ridgelines, textbook saddle, etc. Again, I saw only 2 rubs, and covering that distance, in as great of habitat I was in, I would consider even a dozen or two on the low side of expectations for that area.

So here is my theory which I have waited to hear some other insights before revealing...I am thinking such a lack of rubs could be caused by the age structure in that area. Specifically, imagine if there is a single dominant mature buck in that area that is so clearly the big man on campus, such that no younger bucks are even challenging him, I believe that could possibly explain the lack of rubs. Bucks have been proven to vary in the amount they rub and maybe this guy just isn't big on it. As I said, it's great habitat and there are definitely does there, so this hypothetical dominant buck could have staked it out and all the little guys just moved onto other turf.

Either way, I'll let my cameras soak for a couple weeks and see what they reveal about this new area...

"Again, I saw only 2 rubs, and covering that distance, in as great of habitat I was in, I would consider even a dozen or two on the low side of expectations for that area. "

Far more pressing issues than finding 10 less rubs........don't overscout or your NEW area will get OLD quickly...just sayin'

BTW,don't buy your dominant buck theory...probably is more a terrain thing that humans just don't understand OR the OTHER property had several hot does in the areas and created flashpoints of rubbing activity ....such is nature.I've killed some good bucks in gar holes (no sign) and been skunked in great sign areas...

It would seem, if I wasn't so lazy and it didn't take up so space, I need to post my columns on the biology of rubs and scrapes. Let me just paraphrase on rubs. The number of rubs in an area, is usually thought to be somewhat in line with number of mature bucks. If the number of mature, emphasis on mature as in active breeding seasons or 2.5-yrs and up, the number of rubs should increase. Common language: If you have a small number of mature bucks in your area, they may spend little time rubbing or scraping due to a lack of competition. However, it is known that not all bucks, actively rub. Some make very few, some make many. Bottom line is simply this: When you have competition among "mature" bucks, rubbing increases. When I am hired to scout new territory, one of the first things I do is map and catalog rubs from 1-3-years past. That gives me a good idea of what was there. Then, I splice in the new rubs. That tells me what is there. This is why post-season scouting is so vital on new, forest property. On the food plots and feeders, cameras tell you. (Kind of a sissy girl way of scouting.) :) As a side note: The rub that imparts the most information to a hunter is one that 90% overlooked. A rub, one that has the ground somewhat disturbed in front of it, but not a scrape, tell the hunter, "This is an aggressive buck." This is one that is likely to respond to challenge such as calling and rattling. The size of the rub means nothing because these rubs are made in a strategic place TO THE BUCK. Pick your time and challenge him. This is not a scrape in front of a rub, nor is it a huge tree. I took this picture 12-27-16. On 1-11-17, a nice 10 was shot from a stand 35-yards away, he came to rattling. And, no, I don't have a picture. It was in AL.

I know that I tend to see less rubs and scrapes on properties with high doe numbers. The buck are there but for some reason they tend to leave less rut sign. The rut activity also seems to be much lower. I will see buck moving during the rut but they don't really respond to calling as well as buck do on properties with lower doe numbers

Bulls and Bucks- Exactly, as competition diminishes as in low buck density, both rubbing and scraping diminish. I would venture to guess, your does are getting bred, you just are not seeing the chasing because the does are finding the bucks with little travel needed. Again, the higher the number of mature bucks, the more rubbing and scraping.

I came into a spot of cedars that ring an open area on top of a bluff and there were 11 new rubs of all seizes, never seen this before in my years of hunting whitetails, there were not any rubs around this area except this spot. Unfortunately it was several days before the gun season and got it tag for this coming fall, tough place in trying to set-up in to not get busted.

IN one of my hot spots in Central PA I find incredible scraps ALL over the place I mean everywhere and yes there are nice bucks here EVERY year. BUT I DO NOT FIND rubs in this area. Now in my other spots over 15 miles away, I find WAY WAY more rubs than scrapes. The bucks are in both places. Hard to say.

Dan, interestingly I too have a spot like that in Central PA where the bucks scrape like crazy every year. It's a ridge with just the right amount of patchy mtn laurel and literally every opening in the laurel has scrapes. There are rubs galore in a clearcut 1/2 mile away, down in the valley, and I made the mistake of initially hunting there without many sightings. When I moved up on the ridge I started seeing a lot more deer and have killed two good ones up there. Even since, I've yet to figure out why they go down to that clearcut to rub. There's no food, it's too grown up, and they don't bed there. It's weird.

deer don't read rules and well they get smarter each yr and maybe they noticed human intrest to there rubs..

The area where I hunt in Va is starting to have a much better buck to doe ratio. I have never seen so many rubs and scrapes as I have seen this year. I was dead in the middle of rut central this year somehow someway. I have never seen rut action like this in years.

I hunted a mature buck once that appeared to not rub trees at all. His track got my attention. Took me two years to figure him out and I killed him, 10 yard shot in his bed area at 10.00 am.

I have also seen multiple bucks rub the same tree and use the same scrape.

I hunted one spot this year that had as many as 25 rubs of all sizes within bow shot of one tree. I saw an 8, 9, 6, 4, and two spikes alone with several does going through the spot. The 8 and 9 were mature bucks and I got the nine.

I look for big tracks with some weight. Big beds. Big droppings and of course big rubs and scrapes but I try not to rule out anything. Except- If I don't find something that screams mature buck I keep looking.

Well, to follow up I checked my cameras. Was tickled to get a nice 8 (really nice for this area actually) that should be a dandy next year with all the acorns and easy winter we've had so far. One other buck that looks to be an adult, several yearlings, and some shed bucks including one that I think has a mature looking body, but that can be deceptive. Had more bucks on camera than I did does, which generally would lead to more rut competition, but admittedly a small sample size. Oh, and I found one more rub, so we're up to 3, but it was a nice signpost in an area that will be a future rut stand for me. I haven't had a chance to scout this area without snow to see how many scrapes there are. I think the #1 takeaway is that we'll never fully know why deer behave the way they do; but the why doesn't really matter. In the future, my scouting is going to be less dependent on finding big rubs than I have been in the past.

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