Carbon Express Arrows
2017 New England Moose Lotteries
Moose
Contributors to this thread:
Ace 31-Jan-17
Ace 31-Jan-17
Ace 31-Jan-17
Quinn @work 01-Feb-17
3arrows 01-Feb-17
Zim1 01-Feb-17
sticksender 01-Feb-17
Zim1 03-Feb-17
lawdy 03-Feb-17
Charlie Rehor 03-Feb-17
bill v 03-Feb-17
Trial153 03-Feb-17
Bou'bound 04-Feb-17
Turkeyhunter 05-Feb-17
DonVathome 05-Feb-17
grizzlyhunter 05-Feb-17
Phil 06-Feb-17
bigbuck 06-Feb-17
Fuzzy 08-Feb-17
Zim1 08-Feb-17
Ace 08-Feb-17
Fuzzy 08-Feb-17
Zim1 08-Feb-17
Fran 08-Feb-17
sticksender 08-Feb-17
Zim1 08-Feb-17
160andup 08-Feb-17
Zim1 08-Feb-17
Fuzzy 10-Feb-17
HighLife 10-Feb-17
Fuzzy 10-Feb-17
Julius K 10-Feb-17
HighLife 10-Feb-17
Neubauer 11-Feb-17
Ace 14-Feb-17
Ole Coyote 15-Feb-17
Zbone 15-Feb-17
Zim1 15-Feb-17
Ace 28-Feb-17
TSI 01-Mar-17
Mainer 02-Mar-17
Katahdin 02-Mar-17
TSI 02-Mar-17
lawdy 02-Mar-17
willliamtell 03-Mar-17
Ace 13-Apr-17
bb 13-Apr-17
Ace 13-Apr-17
bb 13-Apr-17
bigbuck 17-Apr-17
Ace 17-Jun-17
Ace 17-Jun-17
Charlie Rehor 17-Jun-17
IdyllwildArcher 17-Jun-17
bigbuck 17-Jun-17
Julius K 17-Jun-17
Mainer 17-Jun-17
IdyllwildArcher 17-Jun-17
Zim1 17-Jun-17
IdyllwildArcher 17-Jun-17
Mainer 17-Jun-17
Zim1 17-Jun-17
Julius K 18-Jun-17
MQQSE 18-Jun-17
Gene 19-Jun-17
Zim1 19-Jun-17
MQQSE 20-Jun-17
Quinn @work 20-Jun-17
Xman59 26-Oct-17
Trial153 26-Oct-17
From: Ace
31-Jan-17

Ace's Link
The 2017 Maine and New Hampshire Moose Draws are now open.

Maine is open until May 15, and the draw is in June. New Hampshire is open until May 26th, the draw will be held on June 16th. Vermont will open it's lottery in early April. (VT has reg and archery tags)

YES the odds are slim, YES you can buy guaranteed tags elsewhere (I know that someone will post: "just go to Newfoundland", happens every year). YES the number of tags has been getting smaller, due to population declines. YES, people do draw these tags, even in their first yer of applying. I drew a VT Archery tag in 2013. (Story at link) and had a great hunt.

I just post this for the guys who are interested, it's a fun hunt, you can DIY if you want, and I'd love to see some bowsiters draw and get to read about it.

From: Ace
31-Jan-17

Ace's Link
Maine draw at link:

Non-resident costs: $15.00 = One-chance (or bonus point only). $25.00 = Three-chances. $35.00 = Six-chances. $55.00 = Packet of Ten-chances (can buy multiples).

From: Ace
31-Jan-17

Ace's Link
New Hampshire draw at link: (Non-resident cost is $25)

From: Quinn @work
01-Feb-17
"YES the odds are slim"

and just got slimmer.

From: 3arrows
01-Feb-17
Thanks for posting.

From: Zim1
01-Feb-17
"and just got slimmer"

Haha! :) Well the way I look at it I'm playin with house money since I drew NH in 2012 (1%) and scored big. As far as Maine goes and their laughable point peddling scheme, at least I'm over 15 points now so I gain 10/year. It's possible I draw before I'm in a walker, in theory at least.

From: sticksender
01-Feb-17
The NE draws are fine if you just enjoy gambling a little money each year. Just be honest with yourself and realize they're not something you can ever count on as a logical way to obtain a Moose hunt as a NR. And that's coming from someone who's probably one of the most prolific "apply-everywhere" type of guys around! I'm in once again for all three states, if only because I've come too far to quit now ;-)

From: Zim1
03-Feb-17

Zim1's embedded Photo
Zim1's embedded Photo
My 1% draw odds 2012 New Hampshire bull. This was the only mature bull I saw during two full weeks of scouting & hunting. And I would never have gotten him without a logger's advice. Drove home in a complete deluge from Hurricane Sandy all the way to the Illinois state line, feeling like I'd robbed a bank. I declined from ever reapplying due to the extreme decline in the population there. Sadly as NH is one of only two states that runs an ethical lottery that has not bent over invested veteran point holders. Cuddos NH. Good luck to everyone applying this year.

From: lawdy
03-Feb-17
Our Northern NH herd is in big trouble. With a huge fed landgrab going on, logging is being cut back drastically. Met a forester while cruising a deer yard and he told me that the moose are hammering what little cuts there are. Trees look like bonsai trees. There are going to be a lot of dead or weakened moose this winter which makes it easy for our coyotes. The feds do not cut and as one USFWS biologist told us at a meeting, don't concern themselves with deer or moose. Only migratory birds. Moose need 30-50 pounds of browse daily. No logging, no moose, or very few. New Hampshires moose season will end eventually once the feds get total control of Northern NH and Maine, along with 7.2 million acres bordering the Connecticutt River from the border to the Atlantic ocean. Of course, we won't be here and their plan is to make it mostly "no human footprint," so in the end it won't matter if the moose are gone I guess. I have fought this takeover for 10 years and our only hope in these little border towns losing our tax base is for the right people to be hurt or this new administration to defund these guys. They are using the refuge system to take us out and as a former refuge manager told us, hunting and snowmobiling can be eliminated with the stroke of a pen.

03-Feb-17
As Ace mentioned in the top post a "go any year, anytime" option is of course Newfoundland. Shooting a moose with an arrow was a boyhood dream for me and it happened day 2 of my 2010 Newfy Moose hunt. Saw 21 moose day one and 18 day two! Enjoy yourself, its later than you think:)

From: bill v
03-Feb-17
I was in the NH game long before bonus points and figured I would draw someday FOR SURE. Well, still haven't drawn and don't expect to at this point. Oh well, I'll try anyway!

Bill V

From: Trial153
03-Feb-17
Wish I had all the money back that wasted on New England moose draws over the years. Thankfully I didn't wait. And I am still not waiting as I have another moose hunt booked for 2019.

From: Bou'bound
04-Feb-17
don't think of it as a lottery............. think of it as a donation and you will never be disappointed.

From: Turkeyhunter
05-Feb-17
New Brunswick Non Resident moose draw open Feb 6th to April 30th. Good Luck. website: www.gnb.ca/naturalresources

From: DonVathome
05-Feb-17
Tough odds but I drew VT in around 10 years, second best unit, hunted my butt off dawn till dusk and never saw or heard a moose. Frustrating!

05-Feb-17
I drew New Hampshire on my 3rd try and Vermont on my 4th and shot bulls in both states but I have been putting in since the beginning of Maine's drawings and no luck. A friends of mine drew Maine last year on his 5th try so I am not holding out much faith in drawing there.

From: Phil
06-Feb-17
What Bou' said^

From: bigbuck
06-Feb-17
Well I am a Vt resident and have been in all 3 states since day 1 ,I drew in 1998 in vt then again in 2014, but like they say you cant win if you don't play and I will continue as long as there are permits to be had,some of the most fun hunts I have been on.

From: Fuzzy
08-Feb-17
I'm in for NH, with 2 preference points.

From: Zim1
08-Feb-17
I would not continue if I were you. If the quotas just stay even your odds at a bull tag are around 1/10th of 1% at the 2 point level. Maybe if you want a cow tag? Bad investment.

From: Ace
08-Feb-17
Yeah Fuzzy, be sure to put in for western sheep and goats, where your odds are even worse, but not Moose where if you happen to draw, you can drive to them.

They call them LOTTERIES for a reason. Why would ANYONE discourage anyone else from applying? Sometimes I'm convinced that some guys on here are either trying to up their own odds, or else they must see the whole world as a glass half empty.

If you want to draw a tag, look at the odds and do a quick cost benefit analysis, then decide on a course of action. If you want a guaranteed hunt, buy a tag, they are available in several locations. Neither way is right, or wrong, just different.

From: Fuzzy
08-Feb-17
Zim1, thank you (sincerely) for the advice. Actually I really am not interested in a bull moose, as I have already killed one (Newfoundland) and didn't mount it. I'd just like to get some moose meat, get some away-from-home hunting in, and visit some friends in New England. I also don't mind "donating" a mere $25/year to a conservation entity, especially one managing something as awesome as a moose population. I donate more than that to Hunters For The Hungry, and I usually pitch in a few $15 fees on Quota hunts in Virginia that I often don't go to. It's money well spent.

From: Zim1
08-Feb-17
"If you want to draw a tag, look at the odds and do a quick cost benefit analysis, then decide on a course of action"

Take out the word "quick" and this is what I've been doing for 20+ years in 12 states. Which is probably why I get PM's every month for advice, which I'm glad to help with. My response to Fuzzy was simple honesty. I got very lucky in 2012 and drew a NH bull tag with max NR points. My odds were approx. 1%. Even then I questioned if that was worthwhile applying. However, things have changed a lot since then. The moose population dropped a lot and tags were cut several times. But the biggest difference for Fuzzy is the vast number of applicants with greater points that has accumulated in the last 15 years. That is a game changer for me. And that is why I refrained from applying in NH again after my hunt. On top of this I had one of the best units in the state yet only saw one mature bull in two weeks of scouting/hunting. I support NHF&G a lot. They are very professional and run one of the only ethical lotteries left, unlike $55 - 10 packs of points! But reality is reality. The western lotteries are becoming major problems due to huge accumulations of points holders killing odds. It's become a major issue for guys wanting to get in on the ground floor today. States even change their systems midstream due to this, like AZ last year.

Given all these factors and the affordability of a Canadian moose hunt I would pass on NH and target Canada if I were coming in on the ground floor today. Just my honest opinion.

From: Fran
08-Feb-17
The Maine lottery sucks! If you miss 1 year they take all your points to me that's just wrong. I was born and raised in Maine and would not give them another penny.

From: sticksender
08-Feb-17
No you can skip a year in Maine:

"Since 2011, applicants can skip a year and not lose their bonus points. So if they applied in 2015 but not in 2016, they still have their points available if they apply in 2017."

From: Zim1
08-Feb-17
Fuzzy, Sorry I just trophy hunt so I didn't consider you might be just after a cow. For that I don't know how difficult they are to draw but likely reasonable odds. Plus there's tons of grouse up there too. My moose meat was the best wild game meat I've had, including elk. Most grilled like filet Mignot.

From: 160andup
08-Feb-17
I have been putting in for Maine for a few years. Relatively cheap and I like to dream!

From: Zim1
08-Feb-17

Zim1's Link
"The Maine lottery sucks! If you miss 1 year they take all your points to me that's just wrong. I was born and raised in Maine and would not give them another penny. "

Ya I'd have to agree it's had the most unethical and inequitable history of all the 14 state lotteries I've ever participated in. The post I attached from 2010 outlines some of that. It doesn't include the part where residents beat down the doors of the statehouse to get rid of multiple bonus point sales for residents. The comments I read later by the legislators who retained the policy for NR's were laughable embarrassments to the state. I had three friends quit applying there due to the gross cheapening of their points. I hung in there only because I figured somebody would fix it soon. Good decision because they did partially about 3 years later at the same time they got rid of resident multi-packs. I think those that dropped out should be given their points back due to those shenanigins.

From: Fuzzy
10-Feb-17
So far moose is my favorite too, and I though elk was impossible to beat. I've heard Nilgai is awesome, and I'm considereing a free range Texas nilgai trip soon.

From: HighLife
10-Feb-17
Fuzzy I as well

From: Fuzzy
10-Feb-17
Dave we need to talk about that :)

From: Julius K
10-Feb-17
9 pts this year as a res. In Maine. Hopeful, but not too hopeful.

From: HighLife
10-Feb-17
Yup

From: Neubauer
11-Feb-17
I just put into NH as a resident with 12 points. Fingers crossed! I've been collecting bonus points for years hoping the moose would rebound but it looks very much like they are going the other way. Sad.

From: Ace
14-Feb-17

Ace's Link
New Hampshire just announced that the number of permits this year will be reduced to 51! The herd is down statewide and they are closing some units altogether (H2N, H2S and K).

Our odds just got worse. (Although I imagine that the number of people applying will drop significantly as well).

story at link

From: Ole Coyote
15-Feb-17
Your chances of winning jusy got reduced New Hampshire will only have 51 tags this year. Ridiculous odds on winning.

From: Zbone
15-Feb-17
What opinions of causing NE moose declines, eastern coywolves or ticks?

From: Zim1
15-Feb-17
A biologist mentioned to me some kind of blood/heart parasite, plus the ticks.

From: Ace
28-Feb-17

Ace's embedded Photo
Ace's embedded Photo
80 Permits available in VT this year. The Lottery will be open in early April.

From: TSI
01-Mar-17
Brain worm is a limiting factor on moose populations,deer numbers go up,moose go down and visa versa.

From: Mainer
02-Mar-17
Life long Maine resident. I've hunted all over the West and have drawn Montana and Colorado sheep tags, Colorado goat tags, Utah-Montana-Wyoming moose tags. The odds have been against me but someone had to draw. So when I hear about NRs not drawing a Maine moose permit after 5-10 years I have to laugh. The "odds" have been a NR will draw once every 85ish years meaning the average NR will never draw. As a R I should draw every 15-19 years.......I'm still waiting after 30 years. Apply and sit back.

From: Katahdin
02-Mar-17
As a Maine resident and a professional forester my opinion is that you can plot the regulated decline in clear cutting to the population decline. Much less browse for them now.

From: TSI
02-Mar-17
Lack of food has no bearing on population declines at all!Purely a parisite,and overharvest issue.No moose populations in the north east have yet to overwhelm food supply.Theres plenty of browse to sustain and grow the population.New Brunswicks is booming and still growing despite records harvests year after year,The diffence is a very low deer density thus a lower tick and brainworm burden.If winters continue to retreat north ticks will survive in greater numbers and deer will increase in traditionally moose occupied areas thus infecting moose with deadly brain worm and high tick burdens will exacerbate the brain worm infections with weakened immune responses caused by ticks.when it comes to deer and moose they don't mix well!

From: lawdy
02-Mar-17
TSI, northern Maine and NH are being taken over by the feds and they do not cut. No cutting, no whips, no moose. Katahdin is right and the foresters of Wagner Land Management agree with him. Attended a meeting on this issue a month ago and will be testifying in Concord NH on March 8th concerning the multi- million acre takeover of Northern New England by the feds. They have their sights set on banning bear hunting. Almost succeeded in Rangely, Maine, but we stopped that refuge for now.

From: willliamtell
03-Mar-17
As long as a State keeps it reasonably cheap I do not mind playing the lottery. It goes to a good cause, and wildlife agencies need all the help they can get.

From: Ace
13-Apr-17

Ace's Link
The VT draw is now open.

From: bb
13-Apr-17
Chas,

Did you draw an archery tag in VT? If so, how do they work the draw for the Archery season? I'm seeing that most units have only 1 tag available, 1 unit has two and a couple have 3. It says only 10% of the tags can go to NR. How does that work or is it effectively a resident only draw now for Archery?

From: Ace
13-Apr-17
I drew an Archery tag in 2013. I think that year they had 5 nonresident Archery tags. Back then you could pick any zone in the state. Now that the tags are zone specific, I'm not sure how they do it. I would assume that only 1 or 2 of the Archery tags will go to nonresidents but I didn't see that explained anywhere.

From: bb
13-Apr-17
If it's 10% of the total tags statewide, then you may be right that there are 1 or two tags available, If it's 10% of the tags available per unit, then I would say there are no non resident tags available. I could not find an explanation of that either.

From: bigbuck
17-Apr-17
I am pretty sure that the 10% comes from the total number of tags which is 25 so they do not round up so this year it will be 2 tags for NR, back when ace drew the tag there where 50 archery tags so 5 , just make sure to put all zones ,the reason for going to zone specific is everyone wanted to hunt in zone E! that has the highest population. My personal opinion is there are very good bulls available in each zone,just not the numbers of moose like E1 but much better trophy quality on the average,just takes some leg work before the season,have seen several P&Y class bulls in some of the central and southern zones even a few that think would be B&C!!

From: Ace
17-Jun-17

Ace's Link
Today is the day they draw 2080 permits in Maine. 10% to NRs. Good luck everyone!

From: Ace
17-Jun-17
Persistence and Faith pays off!

17-Jun-17
Well congrats to You Ace on your moose tag!! Hope you get a good one! C

17-Jun-17
Maine moose results are up. Another point for me.

From: bigbuck
17-Jun-17
another year of no tag!! Congrats on your tag Chas!!

From: Julius K
17-Jun-17
I drew Maine, zone one out bull. Trying to swap for an earlier hunt. Oct up north can be hard to call bulls post rut.

From: Mainer
17-Jun-17
It has taken me 36 years as a resident but this year I finally drew out. Going moose hunting.

17-Jun-17
Grats to those who drew! :)

From: Zim1
17-Jun-17
Nonresident odds going down 20% next year thanks to outfitter welfare.

17-Jun-17
Just buy another 10 pack Zim

From: Mainer
17-Jun-17
What new law did I miss Zim? Every bill that I was aware of to change the moose hunt was defeated. Which one did I miss?

From: Zim1
17-Jun-17
Idyl, Not gonna happen. I'm not a hypocrite. Those 10 packs are a disgrace every Maine legislator should be ashamed of. That's why residents got them removed for themselves. I refuse to participate in that BS, same as the SLC Expo.

Mainer,

http://georgesoutdoornews.bangordailynews.com/2017/06/12/hunting/changes-coming-in-maines-moose-lottery/

https://legislature.maine.gov/legis/bills/getPDF.asp?paper=HP0592&item=2&snum=128

http://www.cthuntingnshooting.com/vBforum/showthread.php?5902-Why-Is-Maine%92s-Moose-Lottery-and-Hunt-Disappearing

From: Julius K
18-Jun-17
Maine keeps trying to revitalize the sporting industry that existed in the early 1900s.... it's not coming back here, despite their welfare efforts.

From: MQQSE
18-Jun-17
My wife is alternate NR #5 for NH. Close but no cigar is our guess.

Time to start lobbying the NR winners! Haha

From: Gene
19-Jun-17
Mqqse - Good luck to your wife at alternate #5. With the very limited number of tags in NH now, she has a slim chance of getting a tag. I was drawn as an alternate several years ago (#30 something) and I believe 8 alternates got tags that year but NH was issuing a lot more tags at that time. No moose tag for me again this year!

From: Zim1
19-Jun-17
So you're saying there's a chance? Good luck Adam ya never know!

From: MQQSE
20-Jun-17
Anything is possible!

I now have the names and addresses of everyone in front of her and am planning our lobbying effort. :)

From: Quinn @work
20-Jun-17
7 nonresident tags. It's sad to see what has happened to the NH moose population. I blame the Federal tree huggers just as much as the ticks.

From: Xman59
26-Oct-17
Idyl, Not gonna happen. I'm not a hypocrite. Those 10 packs are a disgrace every Maine legislator should be ashamed of. That's why residents got them removed for themselves. I refuse to participate in that BS, same as the SLC Expo. Mainer,

http://georgesoutdoornews.bangordailynews.com/2017/06/12/hunting/changes-coming-in-maines-moose-lottery/

https://legislature.maine.gov/legis/bills/getPDF.asp?paper=HP0592&item=2&snum=128

http://www.cthuntingnshooting.com/vBforum/showthread.php?5902-Why-Is-Maine%92s-Moose-Lottery-and-Hunt-Disappearing

1) Analysis of the unlimited 10 packs has been concluded not to have any statistical affect on one's chance of winning. 2) Are you stating as fact that Maine residents had the opportunity to buy unlimited packets of 10 chances and pushed a state law to have them removed as options? 3) The CThunting link is a reference that is from 2010. I find it hard that is appropriate or credible for supporting 2017 statistics. Even the OMB is faster than this.

Lotteries are lotteries. You buy a chance to perhaps win a tag from a very limited population of tags. One gets more good feeling participating and wishing before the drawing, more of an off season activity. I do not think anybody can honestly associate any guarantees with any lottery.

We might be witnessing shameless strategy of increasing their odds. Why would somebody participate in a lottery and continually tell others not to get involved. It does have the affect of improving their odds. Kind of like why news stations do not forecast election results while the voting polls are still open locally..................scare others not to cast their vote. Just saying

From: Trial153
26-Oct-17
As of right now I am out of all three states for 2018. I have said that before and put in anyway ...but right now I am thinking I am throwing good money after bad.

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