Old Man-Young Hunter
Whitetail Deer
Old man- I use to love post season scouting, moving stands, finding rubs spending 20-30-days a year in the woods...just looking and learning. Then in the summer, getting out, looking for the mast trees and 'simmons and such. Maybe hang a stand or two. Then would come opening day, we, no matter the weather. Those were great times.
Young Man-Damn, my camera batteries are dead. What am I going to do? I have no pictures and it didn't rain so my food plot didn't come up. And then, the coons knocked my feeder over and some sorry sumbuck stole my entire shooting house. And worst of all, I can't get the outdoor channel. How will I know when to use my new $129.00 call and what if my Ozonics doesn't work. Oh, this season is a bust.
Old Man, Honey, pass me that Old Charter, this going to be a long discussion.
Aw John, you know the two of us always butt heads on this. Seems every few months you start a thread about all the lazy young hunters that don't have any woodsmanship. Stop believing what you see on TV and get out there with some young hunters.
I'd venture to say that today's hardcore young hunters might work even harder to get to good game than you did in your younger days. That's why the whole "sitka battalions" are out there. It isn't as easy as it once was when you were young... ;)
APauls +1
Almost ALL of the hardest working, most dedicated hunters I know are what I would call "young" hunters (40 and under).
Bowsite excluded, I know ONE guy over 50 that hunts hard.
The generational bashing thing gets pretty dang old to me.
Being that old man now & having started Archery 20 years b/4 compounds took over I can relate to this.. One thing as that old man I have learned is to "teach" my Kids & G-kids that bowhunt, how I do it.. I rely on what "I SEE" on my various walks through my hunting areas at diffewrent times of the year. Yes, I do use a couple cameras now but definably do not rely on them for stand placement. I explain to my kids/Gkids "why" I do what I do. I tell them, seeing a deer on a camera does not tell you "about" that Deer, only how large or sex & that they are in your area. Unless "you" put something there to attract them, they will wander. I say, find that one or 2 spots they travel for food & to sleep & you will be on your way to fooling them on their home turf...Just me...
Apauls. When I started we could go weeks without seeing a Deer, today that would be unheard of.. No it wasn't easy in the 50s & 60s when I started.. We have some great young hunters but overall, I'm with writer. MOST rely on gadgets/foodplots ect to gather their information.
AP-It aint TV, I don't get most of those channels. It is interaction with hunters around here and the posts I see on two other hunting forums. This is a decidedly different group of hunters, not your average. Some of that, I attribute to age and the wherewithal to hunt many of the better places.(Anyone know the average age of the members on here?). I have also seen, some on here, with a propensity to put too much value on food plots. I have to wonder, how many of them are planted and not hunted and how many are planted to provide a hunting opportunity without understanding woodland food sources. I plant no food plots, do no supplemental feeding at all. I have no trail cams. But that is just my choice. I cherish the days of just walking the woods, mapping old rubs and looking for the trees I think will produce mast. For many years, as my health permitted, I had a formula of scouting two days for every day I hunted. I do understand, few hunters have the availability of land on which to do that. But it does, when the plan comes together, make the kill so much more enjoyable. As far as today's hardcore hunters go. I suspect few have the resources to hunt as I did and I don't mean just money. I doubt many worked any harder. Oh sure, maybe they packed in farther or walked an hour to get to a prime spot. But I also suspect they walked past better hunting than they found. You can only go so far into the woods. Then, you start coming out. I like to think I hunted smarter...as a direct result of putting in the scouting time. Now keep in mind, this post is about whitetail deer, not elk or desert sheep...whitetail deer. I rather doubt many hardcore hunters today worked any harder than I. Maybe they were in the stand longer, I'm sure are. But to me, that isn't always smart hunting. Just my opinion.
I don't mean to get to argumentative, because it's just not my nature. . . but in my area, I don't know a single hunter under 40 years old who has ever planted a food plot. The guys that plot are older and more established. More money to spend on such things.
I have a young cousin that runs around with a lot of other kids from 19-25 years old. They hunt hard. Most of them can afford a camera or two. No plots. Not lots of cams. Usually not many stands to move around, etc.
I know areas differ, but I just wonder who you guys hang out with? I live rural. The vast majority of the hunters I know live in these small communities. The guys that are successful work hard at it. Whether they're 20 or 60.
My 21 year old cousin "guided" me on a goose field hunt right before Christmas. We hunted family land, and put out maybe 3 dozen goose decoys, and 18 full body mallards. I got a kick out of the decoy spread. A dozen of them were mine, maybe half a dozen were my cousin's, then other friends of his had chipped in, etc. To get 4 1/2 dozen decoys, I think there were 5 total owners.
Just gives you an idea of the disposable income of a LOT of young hunters in my area . . .
Bake makes a good point. Different areas of the country can make a big difference in how young men hunt deer. But, honestly, Bowriter.... if you are the least bit concerned about the "softening" of this country's young deer hunters , rest assured that the young elk and sheep hunters in this country are as tough as nails!
Truth be told .........I prefer a new hunter with his " modern ways" to a kid that doesn't hunt at all. Let them enjoy the deer woods any way they can.
As far as hunting goes lots of things came easier years ago. I remember hunting with my folks then and they had access to hundreds of thousands of acres just as most others in the area did. No one cared and just let hunters go. Now, unless you are going to pay for a lease, it's hard to find any land to hunt and the land that's not leased holds few deer. Scouting was different but I don't know that running cameras is any easier to scouting in person. Just less time consuming is all. If I had my choice I'd choose the hunting of 30-40 years ago but for different reasons. ;)
Young hunters (20-35) working harder are definitely NOT the norm around here in WI. Hell most whine about having to carry a stand in and out on public land. It's funny becuse most of those whiners are young and hunt within a few hundred yards of their vehicle.
I think I'll just do my own thing and let you guys do yours. :)
Keeping in mind that this post was about whitetail hunters, I'd like to share a different perspective as a lifelong mountain hunter. I'll grant you that today there are many great young bowhunters. I know a bunch of them. Absolute hunting machines. For many of them it's a form of endurance sport. The quest for big antlers, fame, glory, sponsors, free stuff, YouTube and social media "likes", and recognition has made it into a multi-layered competition. Photos hit Facebook while the animal is still kicking. They can prove their stamina and toughness through a great pursuit, and many of them have plenty of both. Nothing wrong with that.
Back in the day we didn't know or care about any of that stuff. We just bowhunted. I don't believe the new go-getters need to go way back in to hunt elk, but that's a part of the "thing". "We killed him 8 miles back in!" "Yeah, we got ours ten and a half miles back." (It's great for me because they push elk down closer to where I hunt now, and don't bother the resident elk I'm hunting. :-)) But I also don't believe they hunted any harder than we did when we were that age. It will be REALLY interesting to follow their hunting careers to see if they're still pounding it like some of us when they're in their 60s and beyond.
With respect to elk, there are a hell of a lot more elk now than there were back when we started hunting them in the 70's. We had to work hard to find them, put on lots of miles of boot leather (there were no ATVs or mountain bikes back then) and our gear wasn't nearly as durable or lightweight as it is now. We carried a lot of weight to have less equipment and good food. There was no Gore-Tex, so we got used to soggy boots, wet cotton or wool pants, and plastic ponchos. The hunting was uphill both ways, the mountains were steeper, and there was always two feet of snow on the ground. (Ok, maybe only a foot and a half). Many of us were so poor we were lucky to have shoes at all. Some guys just wrapped leather around their feet and bound it with thongs. The "backpacking" food was pretty much what dehydrated stuff we could scrounge from grocery shelves and repurpose, and we often carried canned food in our crappy frame backpacks.
Compounds had just come out but they were primitive. The sights, for those who used them, were primitive too. No rangefinders, GPS, trail cams, 2-way radios, two pound tents (except a sheet of Visqueen, my choice), fitted backpacks, or great synthetic clothes. If all that gear had been available would we have used it? Hell yes, we would have. But you had to want to bowhunt elk pretty bad back then to do it effectively. Many came to camp with us and tried it and quickly dropped out to rifle hunt because it was a lot easier.
At 62 I hunted elk for 30 days straight this year. Sun, rain, snow, didn't matter. Some days I put on 8-9 miles, other days only a couple if I found elk to hunt closer to the road. I could have ended it sooner but I got stricken with "big bull fever" by some big bulls I was hunting. The country was steep, with lots of deadfall. One knee hurt much of the time. I have the luxury to hunt that much since I quit the real world. But I wonder how many go-getters with that amount of time would have shot their wads in a week or ten days by pushing deeper, harder, farther, go-go-go, or would they have paced themselves, settled into the rhythm of the hunt, and let the hunt come to them instead of hunting with what I like to call "brute force"?
But damn, I wish I was young now with all the cool hunting stuff available. The girls are definitely hotter now (yoga pants!!) too. Or at least they dress way hotter and aren't afraid to flaunt it. And with the ability to shoot accurately out to 60-70 yards? Something we couldn't fathom back then.
Young bull: "Lets run down the hill and nail one of them cows!" Old bull: "Let's walk down the hill and nail them all..."
I went deer hunting alone the first time in 1965 or 1966. By today's standards I wasn't really hunting. I saw a lot of deer tails. We had the largest deer herd in Vermont ever. If I recall correctly a hunter could see fifty deer in a season and never see an antler. Older hunters said the deer hunting was not as good as the good old days. I took my first buck in 1969 It was a trophy spike horn and weighed 106# field dressed. The old timers said I was lucky. I noticed that some more experienced hunters were taking deer every year and some "good " bucks. Fast forward to the last ten years. I hunt slower now and watch more. The "good" bucks are normal now. Some young hunters get a lucky buck now and then. Some hunters of all ages seem to take deer regularly. I noticed they are "hunting" all year. Yea hunting is easier for the lucky hunters but the consistently successful still work at it. One more thing , the old timers still say it was much better in the good old days. I have a trail camera that I put out where I do not hunt. I am amazed how many deer I get pictures of that are never seen or taken by the folks who hunt in their back yard. Sorry for the rambling but hunting is better for those who work at it than the lazy hunters no matter your age.
LOL This reminds me of the folks I know older than me say (These athletes today are not anything compared to athletes when I was their age) When in fact todays athletes are super human.
As for hunters I disagree! Bowsite has a much older audience than other social media outlets. So we do not see a bunch of so called youngsters on here. And to be honest post like this wont make them stay either! Today you have men 6 foot 6 inches running 4.5????????
But there are some hard core young hunters who get it done year in and year out. As much as it pains me to say it (Pains me severely) Nick Muche is what 29? maybe 30 now? But he has for the past several years kicking ass on his hunting resume. (I still think he has some sort of mental disorder).
My Facebook account says different (roughly 4500 Facebook friends) lots of them are young but darn every post that pops up on my wall they are hitting it hard. They post their hits and their misses also.
I've been bowhunting with my father since 1976. I believe it was 1979 or 1980 I saw 9 deer for the entire season in SE Ohio we thought we hit the jackpot! This past Saturday I saw 7 in 4 hours in my hometown. We never had deer around home growing up. So yes the herds are bigger and that makes it not so bad as far as having the patience that was required in the 70's.
Honestly I think this post is totally off base to how you see things?
Bowriter - How many other social platforms (internet, tv, reading) do you visit besides Bowsite?
Todays young hunters do well, heck they were brought up completely different than us. If we were bored we had to make fun by going outside. Today its pop in a video game and instant action. That doesn't make them any less of a hunter they just have multiple venues to occupy their time.
My biggest question to you Bowriter is this. (WHY DO YOU CARE)? I have no idea why you would worry about someone else's hunting style, weapon, time put in, what they kill, if they kill, how many days they hunt, Etc. ? You sound like the name mentioned above to be honest. But hey lets bash those young hunters on one of the most popular bowhunting websites there is on the internet! That should make them feel really welcome on Bowsite!!!! :0(
To be honest I would not be wanting to go thru my teenage years in this era nor as a young adult! They already have it rough trying to get ahead in life.
I'll put the youngsters in our area up against anyone who thinks they hunt hard...and these fellas feed the family venison on a regular basis. Two brothers I know live for deer season and they share all their cam photos and sightings with me, very refreshing. Heck I get jealous when I drive to work and see their truck parked at the path...reminds me when I was that age, all I lived for.
Just got in from my last hunt of the season. Stalked through a snow fall looking for tracks and just enjoying being out there on public land.
Never saw a deer and walked over two sets of fawn tracks. Never used a trail camera in my life, ozonics or any of that crap. Get off your high horse and reflect on yourself. Someone who speaks of such stature should speak wisdom, not the grumbling of a declining rack.
Keep practicing with that crossbow....
And the Young Rehor steps out of the woods to deliver the Truth! Amen, Matt
Kelly Harris- "Bowriter - How many other social platforms (internet, tv, reading) do you visit besides Bowsite?" Two, was on two more but got off because all they did was show camera pictures and wonder when they would see "him" in daylight. Am on FB some, watch almost no outdoor programming on TV, read no hunting magazines. Contribute articles to one and don't read it. I am also a member of Legends of Rodeo and Bareback Riders Only-two forums for rodeo contestants, past and present. That is about it.
Kelly, I'm only 6'4" but when that moose was chasing me and I was 40 yards from the willows I ran a 4.5 carrying a 40 lb pack, at age 59!
OK so if it is that limited (Your socialmedia outlets) How can you make a valid statement about todays Young hunters? Do you really think the young hunters are on much more than Facebook? Well they are all over Instagram as well. LOL you sound like my uncle who always says The most beautiful mountains in all of the USA are the Smokey Mountains! There is nothing prettier than the tree tops!
(He has never stepped foot anywhere west of the Mississippi River in his life).
And I scratch my head thinking (Estes Park, Tetons, Big Horns, Idaho, Golden City)
Just keep pushing them away............................
I might also mention, the deer hunting right now is the best it has ever been. More deer, more big deer, less land open to hunting. Plenty of public ground around here, most of it underhunted. Couple of the main reasons being-no cameras allowed, must take stands in and out. At least, that is what I hear most. Not over a 45-minute drive from my house is a 21,000 acre WMA. It is open during the entire season. I have hunters crying about no place to hunt and when I suggest that, they quit asking me where they can hunt. Anyone reading this, that is looking for a DIY hunt next year, one with a 3-doe/day limit, two bucks for the year, I will gladly steer you in the right direction. Camping is permitted, some running water, no fee. Come stay for the whole season fourth Sat. in Sept. Till after Christmas. Pitch till you win. Scout all you want.
When I'm an old crotchety bastard, I'm going to bitch about the younger generation AND the older generation!
When I was doing my research on age of hunters, the DNR Public Relations Director for Kansas told me they are seeing a trend of bowhunters peaking in numbers in mid-30s, then dropping out fairly dramatically after age 45. Not necessarily quitting hunting, just bowhunting. He speculated on a number of reasons why he believes it's happening, but nevertheless, they have the real stats from birth dates on license applications. Older guys give it up in large numbers as age stars creeping up. But 45 isn't that old today.
Don't know what this means relative to this thread, just thought I'd throw it out there for the sake of argument. :-)
I didn't realize I was doing it all wrong. All that time putting in plots, running cameras, etc., I must have been too busy to realize I was having a blast doing those things too! Oh yeah, I forgot about working my can off in my spare time to buy my land so I could do those things as well. I have several younger friends that work and hunt extremely hard. They seem to do pretty well on land that doesn't have any food plots on them. I run cameras because I enjoy them. Kinda like running a trap line. I don't use them to pattern deer (not that there's anything wrong with that)
I'm confused about one thing though. Not sure if I'm an old geezer or a young punk. I'll be 56 in 2 weeks. I'll hunt my way and you can hunt yours.
Up here we have some really good young hunters that kill big deer by tracking. Young legs help. I envy them at 71. I still track but don't run them down now, I try to figure out where they are heading and outwit and ambush them. I told one of them today, a former student of mine, to enjoy his youth because someday he will slow down.
I took my 1st Deer in 1958, how bout you.
I took my 1st Deer in 1958, how bout you.
awe hell, anyone can kill a Deer with a compound shooting as fast an o-6, sight, release out of a tree stand over a food plot.. Only kidding. I've been blessed with 60 years of bowhunting, mostly DIY, public land & shared with many young & old hunters. I have seen unbelievable young fellas that are super woodsmen as well as some old guys that are not the greatest. It's the "desire" of the individual hunter to become the best & they learn in many different ways. Age is supposed to make us wiser & more knowledgeable they say.. I don't buy that as I see some really DUMB oldies out there. Those in their late 30s early 40s have it the best I think. They have the health, desire & enough knowledge to be great. I doubt writer's intent was to belittle or say young are not woodsmen, but maybe "the majority" of them using technology is becoming the norm. Being 75 now, I see & have seen a little of everything when it comes to hunters & hunting. Hunters of today have one thing that is a given, NUMBERS of animals regardless of what your hunting spot consists of...
Yeah, I don't hunt hard at all. I use drones to find game, which I then snipe from 900 yds with my bench rifle laying over the hood of my truck......
Actually I work my butt off to fill my tags every year and do a large chunk of it on public land without food plots or cameras, which are illegal to use during season for me anyway. Sure there's a lot of lazy hunters out there, but there's a lot of hard working ones too. I killed my bull solo on day 14 of my hunt this past year. 3 out of the 4 whitetails I killed were on public land. Don't know what things are like in Tennessee, but here in Montana almost all the 40 unders that I know who hunt are driven, extremely hard working, and very successful in areas where most 40 overs aren't. I dream of being able to go back in time 30 years and hunt Montana. There may be more game now, but there was also way less bowhunters, less competition for spots, and animals that were less educated. Guess it's all a matter of perspective.
I gotta admit that when I am high and deep on the mountain, I have never ran into anyone my age--but-- a few that are much younger than I.
I do get some credit from them for being up here' at your age' and I just tell them that I have hunted this same productive route/area for years and years and that I really don't think age has anything to do with it......more of a desire to relive every year.
Good luck, Robb
I tell you what, you take a young hunter who's been schooled in the basics of the "old" ways, and combine that with the new technology and they will be awesome hunters.
My wife was a teacher. When our daughter was young we would not let her use a calculator until she could do basic math with a pencil first. Tech is a TOOL that helps you do things in a more rapid way most of the time. But you need to know the basics first. That will never change.
To be a hard core hunter it must be in your DNA. It must possess you and override just about all other concerns you may have. This kind of hunter (of which most dedicated bowhunters are), NEVER stop "hunting". Yes, they may be at work, a family gathering etc., but one part of them is ALWAYS hunting. You can't shut it off. It's who you are. I came from a non-hunting family, but yet I wanted to hunt and be in the woods from when I first knew what it was. I can't shut it off. Even when I'm as far from the woods as I have to be, I still involuntarily note things like wind direction, the movements of birds, squirrels, trees, terrain, etc. I believe this will only cease when I do.
There are still a lot of young people like this and they will set the standard for the future and they will be great.
Great post, WW. I have the gene and have been a hunter since before I knew it. It was all I thought about growing up, making bows, shooting guns. My father was a fisherman and golfer but he was still a great outdoor mentor and helped me pursue my hunting path. The younger hunters I know today have it too, but with much better tools and more available information to shrink the learning curve.
I truly believe that most young men who are addicted to video games also have it, but lacking the outlet to hunt in the wild it is misdirected into "hunting" digital bad guys, zombies, monsters, etc on screens in front of them.
Idyllwild - " When I'm an old crotchety bastard, I'm going to bitch about the younger generation AND the older generation! "
Sure. Just remember with your new fangly gear and off-road Honda Civic or whatever. You're benefitting from years of erosion. The mountains aren't as high or steep as they used to be, you know.
I grew up in Colorado. My buddies and I would go spend a night or 2 on the mountain and not even take a back pack....... Hanging deer stands don't seem like woods manship to me.
I have never seen a better response than Woods Walker !!
You've offended me...that's what my generation is good at right?
Come on, give us a break with the aggrandizing generational stuff. There are plenty of us young folk that are tremendous woodsmen and women, and lots of bad ones emulating the Outdoor Channel, poorly, too. Same as your generation. We have so much technology available that when used correctly is a tremendous aid to woodsmanship, not a crutch. We have a much greater understanding of biology and complexity of ecosystems. In most of the country we have to deal with the habitat mismanagement we were dealt by previous generations. Hardly anyone my age can afford land and food plots so there are a lot of us dreaded millennials forging it the hard way on public land. I just love to hunt and be outside and gain a deep understanding of the ecosystems I am in, and I'll do it anywhere I can with any free time available. As we get older and can afford land, we'll buy our 40 and plant food plots so we can get into the whitetail husbandry game too!
And we get called entitled...you're welcome for funding the Social Security trust that will probably be insolvent by the time I'm old enough to draw!
+2 Woods Walker, nailed it. I've had so many people ask me in every day life, when I am driving or whatever ask me, "What in the world are you looking at". It never shuts off for me. I can stroll through a city park and I'll be looking for deer sign. A long bus/train/plane ride? Checking out the habitat in the area. See a map on the wall somewhere? You bet, I'm checking out potential hunting areas. Occupying Bowsite when I should be getting work done...I'll plead the 5th on that one....Always hunting, or thinking about it. It never, ever shuts off.
If you've "got it" you know it. We're all born with canine teeth, but only some of us know why.
There was a recently deleted thread on Leatherwall about what other "hobbies" do you do besides archery. I replied that knitting and stamp collecting are hobbies. Archery/hunting is a way of life.
WW, I don't go on LW but was that thread deleted because guys were arguing and insulting each other over other hobbies? Wouldn't be a surprise.
Not to get off-track, but for many trad guys who don't, or rarely hunt, (as with compound 3-D shooters in the same boat) archery does seem to be more of a "hobby". Bowhunting, if done right, can be an all-consuming, multidimensional pursuit no matter what age.
I know people, newer hunters, who use tech as a crutch. I get phone calls for advice on what to do b/c they haven't gotten any buck pics on their bait pile, I always remind them how often (not) I've seen or heard of big bucks killed over a pile of corn yet every year like clock work they bait up their stands.
2012 Buck
2012 Buck
2013 Buck
2013 Buck
2015 Buck
2015 Buck
2016 Buck
2016 Buck
It's interesting how you paint the younger generation with a broad brush. I work hard for the deer that I kill. I don't use feeders, though I don't begrudge anyone who does. I just don't care to mess with them. I do use cameras, placed on trails, just to see what is coming thru. I sit a stand many times and see deer that never even come close to where I have a camera, so they are just for fun.
I put in my scouting and hunt for what I get without expecting any secret gadget to work. I shoot a 2000 model Mathews SQ2. I am 33 now and all of the bucks in this post were killed in 4 of the last 5 deer seasons. I only bowhunt anymore because I just don't enjoy it when the gun breaks the silence.
I will echo what others have said though. Bowriter, with all due respect, your comments only push away the next generation. You have the ability to influence, both good and bad. Please use your abilities for the better.
Growing up in our society now days is tough enough and then coming on a site that many young hunters come to to look for advice and bashing them is just plain wrong. The passion you have for hunting is still in some of these kids they are just growing up in a different time. The fact that these kids pick up a bow and take to the woods with all the other distractions in life is amazing to me. Instead of complaining on here take the time and teach a few kids to do it "the right way".
WW-Excellent post. I agree 100%.
I have one more comment for what it's worth. I'm not blaming anyone for anything, just an observation......
When I really got into bowhunting here in Illinois in the mid-70's, we could sometimes hunt for two weeks (part time hunts) and not see anything. In fact, there were a few years where if one of us even SAW a deer we'd call each other on the phone at night (this was when a phone was a long black thingie with a curly cord that was attached to a wall) and we'd talk about it and what it meant for an hour and a half.
Contrast that with today where many hunters, both young and old, talk about "shooter" deer, and "quality" deer. This is a luxury that only those of us who hunted in the lean years I think fully understand. I'm not saying this makes anyone wrong or right, but I do believe it does give people a different perspective.
I as much as anyone have benefitted from the "deer boom" and I've killed my share of big deer, bit I still focus pretty much on just being out there hunting as a definition of successful day.
"Being 75 now, I see & have seen a little of everything when it comes to hunters & hunting. Hunters of today have one thing that is a given, NUMBERS of animals regardless of what your hunting spot consists of... "
Caribou? Mule deer deer? Shiras Moose? Moose in general? Yes, from what I believe the mighty whitetail does have higher populations mostly across the board, but numbers of animals today compared to years gone by is not better today I don't believe.
If there's one thing that we learn from history, is that we don't learn from history. The sins of today are the same sins man battled in Jesus time, and the same mistakes people made 1,000 years ago are being made today. Racism, hate, murder, genocide, yada yada, people are the same. Grade everything on a bell curve from then and now and the curve will be similar. There were hardcore hunters from the 60's to the 90's to today and all of them would have used what was cutting edge at the time to gain an advantage on the animals they pursue. At the end of the day, to be successful you need to fool the animal in it's environment and that doesn't change.
If there would have been such a thing as internet 40 years ago there would have been people who start threads to be shitdisturbers then too.
"and the posts I see on two other hunting forums." - Bowriter
That's your problem. You probably shouldn't judge the younger generation by what you read on social media. I know I easily scout for 2 hours for every hour I hunt and I run trail cameras. I never post about my scouting trips. Who wants to hear about me wandering around in the woods looking for deer turds, learning the lay of the land, identifying trees, etc? I do post pics from trail cameras and food plots. These provide instant gratification to the readers and a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm pretty sure I post on one of the forums you are referring to, so if you are judging me by the posts I make, you'd have the complete wrong idea on how hard I really hunt.
Well...at 64, I guess I am a crotchety old bastard...lol.
But, my son...now 29...started going with me and trailing deer at about age 8. I did what my father did, and taught woodsmanship, marksmanship, ethics, and instilled a love of bowhunting.
He started hunting at 12, but not until he could shoot...really shoot, lol. No deer that year, but he killed a young 8 point the next.
Yeah, he uses a couple cams, but hunts as hard as anybody I've ever seen...no swamps too tough, no bluffs too rough, no terrain that can't be tamed. His buddies are the same.
The best compliment I could offer is, his Grandfather would be proud...I certainly am. Last year he wanted a new challenge and picked up my old Black Widow MAII recurve. Shot like a demon all off season, and has it down. He shot a doe and a buck with it last season and the bow is now his...65lb at his draw. Me, I'm down to 53lb. This gittin' old crap's hard on a fella...lol.
So anyway, no problems with those boys.
I am so tired s of threads like this in 1988 I had a rail thin skinny armed 18 year old private show up in my platoon and I thought man they don't make privates like they used too!!! Today that skinny armed private is the United states Army Infantry School Command Sergeant Major with probably 6-10 tours on foreign soil on a two way rifle range. he has been in the 25th, 82nd, 101stst, and about 15 years in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Need I say more.
He is also incredibly humble saying that I was the foundation of his beginning. SO OLDTIMERS GET OVER YOURSELF, better men than you will come and go!
I am an "OLD Bow Hunter." I read the woods like a book and enjoy every minute of the chase. I have killed enough deer that I have lost count of how many, years ago. I enjoy passing on what I have learned to others. (I am still learning) These computers have taken up a lot of my time. (Dang Bow Site) I love getting footage of deer with these high tech. camera's and playing around on my video edit software. Scout camera's have gotten in my blood and I cant wait to see what I have on them. ( But I do wait and only check them when I'm in the area hunting.) Google Earth is something I can stare at for an hour although I have not been able to spot even one deer on it. (Most Important) I use to be young. I looked for deer tracks, deer beds, deer poop, rubs, scrapes and I walk as many trails as I could walk to learn how deer would travel. Jumping deer and spooking them is something I still do but in a different way now. I think the Young hunters of today have a "knowledge overload" to contend with but I guarantee you some of them will be able to pick it apart and come up with a game plan that works for them and they too will enjoy the chase. My best hunting partner is young. My son.
Pigsticker are you referring to Messerschmidt by chance????
Here is a Photo from My annual hunting party this past weekend! Most people 30-40 years old ! As you can see we get it done! And all of Is live and breath hunting !! Best of luck in 2017 !! Hope it good for Young and old!! Hunt
Apauls X100. I know plenty of younger guys(under 40) that work very hard at killing all sorts of critters. Many of them I know cannot afford all the latest greatest gizmo's so they do it the old fashioned way. I will say there is nothing wrong with using the latest greatest gizmos if that is your thing. The only problem I have is the guys who go on a bunch of guided hunts(ecsp deer) where they really do not put in any of the work. They basically pay x number of dollars and go sit and shoot something if the outfitter did his job. Too me that is not really hunting but for the guys with limited time and no access to good property may be there only choice. Scooby
I am 75 years old now, been in Archery/bowhunting 60 + years now & haven't filled my Whitetail tag in over 7-8 years. I never learned a thing I guess but my kid (he learned from me) filled 3 tags this year. That being said, I no longer shoot Does & the goal I set for myself on my next Buck (Whitetail) was a big one. I have tried to teach what I have learned in that time to my hunting kids & g-kids .
Well John, at almost seventy I don't quite qualify as a youngster, but when I was, I did all the things you wrote about in the OP. Now, I hunt a little slower, and a helluva lot easier. I not only like to hunt over my food plots, I enjoy preparing and growing them. I guess the deer enjoy them too, because they eat them up ! Down in the land of the pines, food plots provide good nutrition for deer, and not just during hunting season. I grow plots year 'round. Yep, use cameras too, because in order to census the deer, I have to fill out paper work to prove what's out there. This is for the state management program that my property is enrolled in. But even if they were not required, I'd still use them, mainly because it's just fun to see what's hitting my minerals and my plots. Also lets me keep an eye on the hogs and tells me where I might ambush them. I still roam through the woods somewhat though. I found three fresh scrapes Tuesday as a matter of fact ! I guess some of the bucks don't know when the rut is over ! :)
At 56 i read all these posts and think how fortunate we all are to live in this great country and be able to hunt and fish and enjoy the outdoors. We can all agree or disagree but we need to be together and fight the good fight to keep our rights to walk the woods when we want and where(not so much anymore) we want. Respect each other and support each other and it will make us all better hunters.
What does being able to cover 20 miles in a day have to do with being a good whitetail hunter? You don't run them to death. You HUNT them.
I guess when you loose your relevance, one reaction is to tear others down.
"Any dufus can sit in a tree and kill book whitetails"
Really? How about those guys hunting east of the Mississippi who may hunt their whole life and never see a book whitetail? It is similar to Jay Scott talking about raghorn 350" bulls in Arizona. Its all relative my friend....I promise you that you that killing book whitetails in the majority of the country is far from easy. Matter of fact it is one of the most difficult tasks in bowhunting for 1/2 of the country.
As far as young guys.....the young guys I know that bowhunt are all beasts. Guys in their 20s that are serious will run a 45 year old guy like me into the ground. What I have found though is that the next generation of bowhunters where I live (<25) don't even exist. They have their heads in their phones too long to even consider going outside.
Bowfreak, you are right, at least to an extent. Example: My oldest son, who is 46, has hunted all his life. I taught him from a pup about deer sign, where, when, and how to hunt small game as well as deer. I did the same with my youngest who is about to turn 21. He hunted with me up until he was about 12, but slowly lost interest in hunting and gained interest in video games. He hasn't hunted in several years and I don't expect him to ever hunt. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it. Now I know this is just one anecdotal example but I think it's repeated thousands of times over our country. It's easy, it's instant, and it requires no commitment. You turn it on and turn it off, no planning, no heat and mosquitos, no frozen toes. Let's face it, what we do, we do because we love it, not because it's cool.
Honestly I think this thread should be shut down. Great job Hunt, looks like some great heads, and that would be a fun party to attend!!
I honestly don't see the purpose of a thread built on insulting a generation of people. Almost sounds like a TBM thread, but we know what happened to him. Any chance the mods could close this one off?
APauls I agree with you 100%. Only positive of this thread is the number of guys on hear defending the future generation. As a guy with four young kids who like to hunt I know first hand how hard it can be for them. Last thing they need is other hunters criticizing them.
You older guys that think you can compare yourselves with how you had it as a kid and how our kids have it now are living in a dream world. They didn't ask for all this it was handed to them.
Is it criticism or an observation?
It looks like critical observation to me.
This thread made a wrong turn with the first silly post.
"AP-It aint TV, I don't get most of those channels. It is interaction with hunters around here and the posts I see on two other hunting forums. This is a decidedly different group of hunters, not your average. Some of that, I attribute to age and the wherewithal to hunt many of the better places.(Anyone know the average age of the members on here?). I have also seen, some on here, with a propensity to put too much value on food plots. I have to wonder, how many of them are planted and not hunted and how many are planted to provide a hunting opportunity without understanding woodland food sources. I plant no food plots, do no supplemental feeding at all. I have no trail cams. But that is just my choice. I cherish the days of just walking the woods, mapping old rubs and looking for the trees I think will produce mast. For many years, as my health permitted, I had a formula of scouting two days for every day I hunted. I do understand, few hunters have the availability of land on which to do that. But it does, when the plan comes together, make the kill so much more enjoyable. As far as today's hardcore hunters go. I suspect few have the resources to hunt as I did and I don't mean just money. I doubt many worked any harder. Oh sure, maybe they packed in farther or walked an hour to get to a prime spot. But I also suspect they walked past better hunting than they found. You can only go so far into the woods. Then, you start coming out. I like to think I hunted smarter...as a direct result of putting in the scouting time. Now keep in mind, this post is about whitetail deer, not elk or desert sheep...whitetail deer. I rather doubt many hardcore hunters today worked any harder than I. Maybe they were in the stand longer, I'm sure are. But to me, that isn't always smart hunting. Just my opinion."
Sounds like an observation that took off on the typical bowsite tangent.
Call it what you want criticism or observation, unfortunately we can't turn back time to when we were younger it is what it is I'm just glad there is still some youth out there doing it.
I'm from about as rural as one can get my home town has a population of 600 people and can still support it's own school. When I was in school there was very few who did not hunt, now even in a town as small as mine with great deer hunting all around my kids are in the minority. They have no friends to go to school to talk about how great a time they had hunting over the weekend because none of them really give a crap, but they still do it. Just strikes a nerve I guess.
A critical observation? It was certainly an over-board generalization. Even the OP stated that his "experiences" generally happened elsewhere, so the question is: Why post it up here?
I'm not sure what John's reasons are for posting these things here? It seems we've gotten several of these type of threads over a somewhat recent period from him. Many of us "younger" guys are certainly aware of what has transpired over the years in regards to hunting, and how the upcoming generations are typically less involved in the process and nature. Fortunately, you won't find a lot of that type here amongst regular posters.
Old timers in general share a significant portion of the responsibility, contributing to the "demise". Some have certainly passed on the traditional ways though.
I love the woodsmanship aspect of bowhunting whitetails. Can show you every mast producing tree on the 800 acre farm I hunt. Still mapping rub and scrape lines during and after season. One of my favorite winter past times is walking the farm a couple days after a measurable snowfall. Always looking for new pinch points!
That said, I really enjoy creating / maintaining food plots....for all of the wildlife which benefits. Can't wait to pull the chips on trail cameras. Never know what one might see. Didn't own a rangefinder until I started hunting the mountains, but now that I have one...it goes in my whitetail pack every hunt.
BTW, I'm 55 years old....or maybe 55 years young....guess I'm not really sure in which mold I'm supposed to fit?
Sounds like you're from the HUNTER mold. The "double dominant hunter gene" mold to be exact. Age has zero bearing on this. Either you have it or you don't. For some of us it just needed to be kick started so to speak. But once it is it runs as long as you do.
"Old timers in general share a significant portion of the responsibility, contributing to the "demise". Some have certainly passed on the traditional ways though."
How can you argue a generalization with a generalization?
**edit: Sorry, let me rephrase that, how can you criticize a generalization with a generalization?
:^} Sometimes nostalgia can be a prickly thorn ! :^}
Opinions are like weeds. They grow everywhere !
Be happy for the "Old Man" who is still able to hunt !
Be happy for the youngster who wants to hunt !
Be grateful for having the opportunity to hunt ! :^}
APauls,
I think you've been around long enough to know that Bowsite doesn't just shut down threads that ruffle feathers. I may not agree with Bowriter but I am glad that the leash is long on Bowsite. Shutting down conversation because you disagree with it is what liberals do. I hope Bowsite continues to not prescribe to that type of site moderation.
I am just going to hop back into the fray and defend trail cameras...since they are a common target of the curmudgeons
I used to have a very negative perception of them also. But this past year I started using them and they've added a lot of enjoyment to my overall outdoorsman experience. It's like trapping but without having to skin a mangy critter. So much anticipation when I plug a card into my computer to see what I "caught". I don't even find them that great of a scouting tool, certainly way less important than boots on the ground woodsmanship for the big woods hunting I do. If I do ever happen to pattern a buck, sure, I'm going to whack him and not feel one bit bad about it, but it's not my intent of using the cams and never will be. Placing the cams on public land without bait or agriculture where they aren't likely to get stolen requires a lot of thought and woodsmanship in itself.
ELk Yinz, I know exactly what you are talking about.. Same thing goes w/ shed hunting, but I will coincide w/ BW original post and say I do know a guy who will call me about not getting any good bucks on film. He will carry on about whether or not he should hunt, this information will decide if he hunts or not, at least thats how he comes across. I'll do everything I can to persuade him to dispatch that thought process, but I know its there and I know its almost ingrained in him. Psychologically it compromises his confidence.
Agreed ohiohunter, and that is pretty much the point. ALL old-timers don't necessarily want to share in the blame, which should probably fall on a smaller portion of the whole, just like ALL "young" hunters shouldn't have to deal with the stereotypical accusations.
This is especially true of the Bowsite crowd, of which the OP admits is not the source of his consternation. Plus, I think the OP would have to consider whether he was not a solid contributor to the changing culture. I base this solely on prior internet posts, as of course I have not met him personally.
I am one of those old guys, but totally disagree with the opinion on the young. I have nephews and know other youngsters that are great hunters. Sure they use trail cams, but they also scout using other methods. They also taught this old dog some great recipes for wild game.
I am glad to see some of the posts from the young! Keep up the good work and don't worry about disagreeing with some of the old coots. You have been very respectful while voicing your opinions.
Last but not least, I agree with Elk Yinzer. I love the anticipation of plugging a card into my computer. Have a shot of a mink carrying a squirrel thru fresh snow. Wouldn't have gotten that without the dreaded trail cam.
Why close this thread down. Enjoyed reading the posts it generated even if thread starter didn't intend it to have that purpose.
Lot of talented men on here that can put into words how I feel but am not good enough to put into words....Jaquomo, Woods Walker,Hunt Man etc.
Pretty sure I have the GENE. Lol.
OK...my 2nd post on this. As stated, I'm 64 and a life long hunter...the recipient of a wise father's tutelage. I'm in Wisconsin, and other than several years hunting with a Wyoming buddy, a life long Cheesehead whitetailer.
I stated earlier in regard to my son and his friends...damn fine hunters. But, in my youth I had a major advantage over today's youngsters...availability of hunting land. I was a farm kid in the 60's and nobody said "no" on land usage. "We" could literally freely hunt hundreds, if not thousands, of acres. The deer weren't as plentiful, but the hunting opportunities certainly were.
Today, if one isn't able to justify the financial burdon of owning property (I am not, sadly) habitat is damn hard to come by. I think that factor is huge in shrinking young hunter numbers. In my hood, public hunting land SUCKS, and I don't care who you are...spending the fall in the woods seeing nothing is no fun.
I'm fortunate enough to have permission to hunt a couple properties that are decent to good deer hunting, and I've acquired the same for my son. Two of his buddies have family owned whitetail Meccas...they're very fortunate, and know it.
Habitat loss not only hurts game numbers, but hunter numbers as well. You boys out west, with millions of acres of national forest and BLM lands are lucky. Good on ya. I know I loved my trips out there. But, other than some of the eastern mountain areas, good public land is scarce.
We do have large national forests in northern Wisconsin, but the protected status of wolves has raised havoc with deer numbers, and wolves are spreading rapidly.
I'm not trying to piss 'n moan...it's just the facts today. But, as much as he loves to hunt, and hunt hard, I'd like to see my son and his generation experience the opportunities afforded mine in my day. But he/they make do with what they have...besides that, having my son as my hunting partner is about as good as it gets.
I'm going hunting tomorrow, for pigs. Midday, I'll be moving some stands for fall whitetails. I don't even know why I posted that, I was just going to say, Woods Walker... your first post was solid!
Just go hunt.
