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Question on hardpan

I'm new on here, but I can see this site being my new best friend. I have played with foodplots over the years without much success and it is becoming a passion of mine to learn to manage our land. I have thought that hardpan might be one of my main problems but you don't see much info about it. I went to the Deer and Turkey Expo in Louisville last week and attended all the seminars on habitat management. Hardpan was brought up as a major problem but I don't have a tractor to pull a ripper around. I have been asking around to see if you can rent something like this or if I can find a farmer to hire without any luck so far. One of my friends came up with the idea of renting a trencher and running several trenches through the plots and then filling them back in. Lokking for any thoughts or advice others might have. Thanks for your time!

Thanks Pat! Actually I'm not new to bowsite but I didn't realize this section was here. I went to go for advice to the QDMA forums which I have used in the past and found they weren't there anymore. I went to my state forum here and noticed the foodplot forum link and checked this out. I have been reading over all of the old threads here and saw why I couldn't find the QDMA forums which is a shame but it looks like you are building a good resource here. KUDOS!

The farmer whose property I hunt has decided he does not want to plow every year, he instead plants sugar beats and radishes in his fields that the following year he is going to put corn or whatever on. This way he just has to disk to get the field ready. The problem is if it is hard pan you should first get it broken up using implements such as plow or a real heavy set of disks. Scooby

The 2 main reasons farmers plant forage radishes is to help break up the hardpan and the other is that the radishes take up nutrients and fixate then close to the surface so the next crop will be able to utilize them. Is there possibly a farmer nearby that you could hire to rip your plots for you? Also, have you done soil tests on your plots?

Actually look into what they call tillage turnips, by far the best thing you can do for deep tillage with little tractor, I never deep till anymore, just use these or other cover crops

there are many types of hardpans. It's vital to know what type you have. for example, ripping a duripan will help a lot, whereas a fragipan will re-form. I'd recommend finding a local soil scientist and get a few profile descriptions done, and get some pro advice, before spending money on equipment work.

hard pan can become an issue but depending on type of soil very rarely will especially for food plotters.Very rarely is there a field that is plowed or ripped in most of the midwest.I think that if I have to start plowing again it will be because of resistant weeds.

sent you a PM

Humics- liquid and dry. They are cheap and have other added benefits Daikon Radish people bring up and but most do not know that sorghum roots can go 6' deep. A rule of thumb is the height of the forage the depth of the root. Proper Ph Add soil organic matter Use the right fertilizers to match your soil test

I welcome you to email me if you want more in depth recommendations.

Thanks guys! All of my plots are 1/8 to 1/4 acre cleared out of the woods. Some are brand new this year but the several I have had have just been worked with a rented walk behind rototiller. I haven't tested the new plots yet but have added lime to the existing ones which haven't been messed with in a few years. Before adding lime the ph is usually 4.5 to 5 I assume because of all the leaf litter. I didn't know much when I worked the plots in the past and am trying to learn the right way before I start this time.

that's super low pH.

I thought 4.5 to 5 was normal for forest soils that haven't been amended. The plots in the past started out looking great but the plants never got very big which helped lead me to the thought that hardpan was my problem. I have never heard of humics before. How do they work and where do you get them? Nutritionist I will certainly consult you before getting started this year if you're willing to help another newbie.

He is the one to talk to for sure.Where i have seen hardpan is if the ground had been worked in only one method for year or even along edge where nothing had been done and I had issues with trees growing.The farm ground issue is rare in my area because most farmers use different methods from year to year because they are watching this type of issue.The only time we use a ripper is along the edge of fields to cut tree roots

it may be normal for hardwood soils in acid parent materials like shale, sandstone whatever. It's super low to get anything to grow in though. pH 4 is 10 times as acid as pH 5, 100 times as acidic as pH 6 and 1000 times as acidic as pH 7.

As a point of reference, a food item under pH 4.7 is considered pH stable, ie: it can be left unrefrigerated without growing harmful bacteria. That's pretty acid.

If you want clover to do well, for example, you need to be well up into the 6's. Under 5 the nitrogen fixing bacteria won't live at all, and under 6 they ain't happy.

Lime is your friend.

People tend to over work the soil. Treat your soil like a deer's rumen. Feed the bugs, build up a high microbial population. Plant deep rooted forages that tolerant a little lower pH ranges and the first dollar everyone should spend is on lime. Ph is what drives healthy soil and healthy ruminants.

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