Best state to build points?
Elk
Ok so several buddies and I just started elk hunting 2 years ago. Hunting colorado otc. Harvested 2 bulls this last season between the 4 of us.. For now we're jacked just to be hunting bugling elk in September and learning all we can. At some point we would like the opportunity to go on more of a trophy hunt. We started putting in for points in Colorado but realize with the system it could take our whole lives to draw a good tag. So my question is, for an opportunity at a limited draw or more quality hunt say every 4 to 7 years what would be a good state to start building points in? Obviously i haven't researched this a ton but i hear Arizona has good opportunities.? Maybe Wyoming?? What about New mexico? Others? Still trying to figure out all these draw systems?? Thanks in advance for any input or advice.
New Mexico and Idaho do not have a point system. So not there. AZ does have great elk, top archery units will take 12+yrs to draw in the bonus pass. But the new rules at least give a chance to a NR every year. There are mid tier units in AZ that have better odds you could probably draw in 5 yrs. WY has a number of archery only hunts that you can draw with a few points so it would also be on to look at. Utah has good elk, but will take a very long time to guarantee a tag. The HuntExpo takes too many NR tags so it usually only leaves random odds for NR on the top end hunts. NV has too few elk. I don't know about MT, OR, WA.
New Mexico doesnt have a point system, yet. New Mexico's forte is landowner tags. You must be expecting a short lifetime as You can get in some good units in Colorado in 5 years. Wyoming has opportunies in the same amount of time and even in there Gen units that for NR is a couple years of points. Az as some say all units are good but may take a few more years than other states. Eastern Montana is a goto destination for many. Your long shot states maybe Nevada and Utah. Some of the hunting consultant service like Huntin Fool and Eastmans put out an issue that gives a synopsis of the states draw procedures. Find someone who has a recent copy that will give you a quick idea of the perference /bonus point thing is all about. Then do your specific state research Also Each state has all the info online just need to read through it all to find what works for you.
Usually the harder (more points required) the higher the quality of animals and the less number of hunters (tag ls available). Be mindful some states will have others seasons going on and could be overun with deer hunters or cow tag holders. Of course all this time building points cost money in license fees and point fees states vary greatly in those charges. Your best bang for the buck would be Colorado and Wyoming for now . Throw in an app to New Mexico as well. No point building there but the chance to play is modest.
I have drew Good elk tags in Arizona ,Nevada & Utah with 3 Points Utah you spend less money building Points than the rest of the states. You can use your $60 license for two years You Buy it late one year and apply for tags late the next year you apply just after it opens. Az its $160 every year for a license. Nevada Its $142. In Wyoming You can just do points only for $50.
all of them is the best answer, I don't do California but the rest are a must apply!
Subscribe to Ramdy Newberg's podcast Hunt Talk Radio and listen to his examination of this very question in incredibly accurate detail and perspective. He talked about this just a couple of podcasts ago.
I live in Oregon and don't recommend building points here. If you wanted to hunt OTC and had a good starting point than come hunt. Good opportunities for Roosevelts .
The Podcast Episode Arctichill refers to is at the link.
In that episode we discuss a short-term strategy where you can/should hunt elk every year and a long-term strategy to build points for some of the "glory hunts" you might eventually draw. Most importantly, hunt elk every year you can, as someday health will intervene with your ability to do so.
As others have pointed out, NM and ID don't have points.
I'm building points in NV, AZ, UT, and CO.
I hunt elk just about every year in NM (landowner tags cause my luck in the draw is apparently used up!) and CO (OTC).
Not sure when I'll ever cash any points in (I'm sitting on about 7 in each of those states), but I'm plenty busy hunting other critters now. Once I get done chasing everything else, my plan will be to focus on elk, mule deer, and whitetail and I should be able to draw some really good tags at that point (in about 15 years or so if I had to guess...I'm 37 now).
As others have mentioned, there are lots of great resources out there that describe the draw process in each state (Huntin' Fool, Eastmans, web forums) as well as resources (like Randy's podcast) that help establish a strategy for applying/drawing. In fact, I tried to summarize the systems in a post one time and have it saved. Note that this is from a few years ago so some of the details may have changed slightly (anyone else feel free to chime in and correct me)!!
Utah: Bonus/Preference. 50% of tags go to applicants with the most bonus points. 50% go to a random draw for all applicants where your name is entered an additional time for each bonus point you have. Everyone’s first choice is awarded before anyone’s second. If only one tag is available, it goes into the random drawing.
New Mexico: No Bonus/Preference. If you name is drawn, your first choice will be looked at. If this is full, your second choice will be considered before the next applicant’s first choice, on and on for all three choices. In other words, all of your choices matter. Do not put a 4th or 5th choice.
Arizona: Bonus/Preference. 20% of tags go to the applicants with the most bonus points (resident and non-resident). The remaining 80% are available in a random draw where each bonus point gets you another name in the hat. Non-residents can only take 10% of the total quota (max point pool and regular pool). Non-residents can only draw in a unit with more than one sheep tag, and are limited to 50% of the quota or two tags, whichever is less. Your first two choices on an application matter (if you are drawn and your first choice is full, your second is considered before the next applicant’s first choice).
Oregon: Preference (Deer, elk, antelope). 75% of tags go to the applicants with the most preference points. 25% of the tags go to the remainder of the applicants without preference to points. If there are less than 4 tags, they will go to the applicants with the most points (no random draw). There is no preference point system for sheep tags. A maximum of 3% of antelope tags and 5% of elk and deer tags will go to non-residents. No less than 5% and no more than 10% of sheep and goat tags go to non-residents (roughly 5-10 sheep tags per year to non-residents).
Idaho: No Bonus/Preference. Everyone’s first choice is considered before anyone’s second. A maximum of 10% of tags go to non-residents. In units with less than 10 tags, one may go to a non-resident. You can only apply for elk, deer, and antelope or sheep, goat, and moose.
Colorado: Preference point. Colorado is a true preference point state. Applicants with the most points are given a tag. If there is a “tie” in preference points and there are more applicants than tags, the applicants with the most points go into a random draw. Everyone’s first choice is considered before anyone’s second is considered. For sheep, moose, and goat it’s a little more convoluted. You need three preference points before you are even considered for a license. Once you have three preference points, a weighted bonus point system takes over (I’m not exactly sure how it works). Non-residents are limited to 35% of the total elk and deer tags and 10% of the total sheep, moose, and goat tags.
California: Preference. 90% of tags for deer hunts go to the applicant with the most points, 10% go to a random drawing with no preference. For zones with less than 10 tags, one tag may be issued in the random drawing. 75% of the elk, sheep, and antelope tags are awarded to applicants with the most points, the remainder go into the random draw. For units with less than 4 tags, one tag will be issued in the random draw (whether the unit has one, two, or three tags available). No non-resident quota exists. Your first choice on the draw is the only one that matters.
Nevada: Bonus. Nevada squares bonus points for every species you apply for. If you have 9 bonus points and then apply, your name will go into the hat 82 times. No preference is given to pointholders beyond that. All five hunt choices are considered before moving on to the next applicant. Nevada has separate tag numbers for non-residents and residents and, therefore, they are in a different pool.
Washington: Bonus. Like Nevada, Washington squares bonus points for every species you apply for. No preference is given to pointholders beyond that. All four hunt choices are considered before moving on to the next applicant. No non-resident quota exists.
Wyoming: Preference. 75% of all tags go to the applicants with the most points, the remaining 25% go into a random draw. For units with less than four tags, there is no random draw. Everyone’s first choice is considered before anyone’s second. In addition, there is a special license for elk and deer and a regular license, where 40% of the license pool is reserved for the special license (more expensive) and 60% for the regular license. The same 75/25% split applies to both the regular and special pool. Lastly, roughly 15% of all elk tags and 20% of all other species’ tags go to non-residents. To see how this works, if a unit has 100 tags, 15 of them would go to non-residents. Of that 15, 6 would be reserved for the special pool, and 9 would be for the regular pool. Of those 6 tags in the special pool, 4.5 (not sure if it’s 4 or 5), go to individuals with the most points, and the remaining licenses (1 or 2) go into the random draw for the special pool. Same thing for the 9 in the regular license pool – 6.75 go to those individuals with the most points (6 or 7 tags), and 2 or 3 tags go into a random draw. In this example, you can see how even with 100 total tags in a unit, you may only be eligible to draw 2 or 3 of them.
Montana: Bonus points for sheep, moose, and goat and for the special deer and elk units. Preference points for the general deer and elk. To draw a special deer or elk unit (limited entry), you need a general tag. These are awarded on a preference point system, with 75% of general tags going to applicants with the most preference points and the remainder in a random draw. Once a general tag is draw, special units are decided under a bonus point system where your bonus point for that species is squared. You may draw a general tag without a special tag, but not vice versa. Everyone’s first choice is considered before anyone’s second. Sheep, moose, and goat also operate off a bonus point squared system. Non-residents are essentially limited to 10% of the total quota.
My advice if you buy points is to pay attention to the points per unit in whatever states you buy them in. Some units are consistent with the amount of points needed. Use your points when the option is available. I didn't do this and now regret not using them when the chance was presented. I now find myself in noman's land in a few states. It becomes frustrating chasing a pipe dream.
If Pat had the ability to make a thread "sticky", this one is it!
Read and re-read it.
Never go into any point system thinking it will never change. The more points you accumulate in any one state, the higher your risk of getting burned.
You pays your money, you takes your chances.
Hey appreciate all the response guys! Learned a ton here already and will be re-reading this many times I'm sure. Bigeasy your post was very helpful. Thanks guys
Yes good info Bigeasy. Thanks for putting it together, even though my head is spinning from how complicated some states are.
Thanks guys. I'm sure some of the info in it might have changed slightly but it's probably mostly right. I'm thinking it'll be worth updating it to cover the cost of applying as well (do you need to buy a license, do you need to front the tag money, etc). You can see how in some states if you want to hunt the very best units, it's going to take a long time and you can also see how the order of the draw and how non-resident tags are allocated matter a lot as well (see AZ's treatment of the max point pool and the NR quota for example).
Most all of them starting 25 years ago.
It's all a scam and shell game at this point. Save your money, and just go on hunts when you have the time to go DIY Gen tags.
It is a scam but I love playing the game.
And I hate gambling...go figure.
Arizona and Wyoming, based on your criteria.
Utah, Nevada, and Colorado, if merely dreaming of a high-quality hunt is enough for you.
You need to be serious about it and be in it for the long haul. I'm sitting on 15 AZ elk points and after AZ changed their draw system last year it knocked me back about 2 years for the units I am trying to draw. I hunt elk every year just not in AZ . I know I could draw other AZ units but I'm not willing to pay 5 or 6 k to an outfitter to hunt elk .I'm sticking to the 2 units I know and if I ever draw a tag it will be the last AZ licence/point I ever buy !! There is nothing stopping them from changing the rules any time they want no matter how much you have invested. Good luck.
I would say the two best are Arizona and Iowa. Good luck! C
Good info guys, thanks. So just curious and this is probably getting off topic but there seems to be guys that shoot big bulls every year. The guy from trophy taker comes to mind. Are these guys paying to play? Or if you enter in all states can you draw a quality tag evey year in one of em? Or are some of these guys just out hunting everyone else in general units?
Dan buys Land owner tags In Nevada every year sometimes two in one year He also puts in for every tag he can in the draws. He's also a good elk hunter so he fills lots of the tags
Very nice summary Bigeasygator. Just a couple of minor points, in CO the higher demand elk and deer hunts drop down to a 20% NR limit. In MT the 10% NR cap is done by "Region", and not statewide (very minor point).
I agree, great job Bigeasygator!
Another few minor clarifications for Arizona: No more than half of the 10% NR cap can go in the max point pool round, the other half is available (but not guaranteed) in the random pool round. Additionally, and this is a correction to Big Fin's video as well, all species are not treated the same. For sheep and buffalo, the max point round is applied statewide. For all other species, it is applied by hunt number.
If you want to trophy hunt every year then jump into WY, UT, AZ, NV and NM game. If you are having fun with what you are doing I would suggest WY and AZ. Both of these states will produce a real good tag for you every 5-8 years. It won't be the best tag those states have to offer but it will be a tag that gives you a legitimate shot at a 300+. I would also apply for NM while I was at it. Someone has to get lucky and there are quite a few NM units without terrible draw odds that should be a better hunt than CO OTC.
The days of a good mid-tier AZ tag every 5-8 years are long gone, unless you get very lucky.
In response to NoWiser. Any unit in AZ will offer you a significantly better hunt than CO OTC and a chance at a 300+ bull. 8 years of applying will get you 9 points with the added loyalty point. I think you could do OK in the AZ draw with 9 points but I am not an expert. I would also think you could do pretty well in WY on 5-8 points. 5-8 years seems like a long time but somehow those years just seem to fly by. I spent my first 6 yrs elk hunting OTC in CO but that was 15 years ago and I was in the exact same place you are. Looking forward to getting back some year when I don't draw a tag. Mike TN
Great information from lots of guys here. I say put in as many places as you can. Some, like NM and ID are random and you might get lucky. You can hunt OTC in CO while building points. You probably won't ever draw the really elite units, but there a lot of good hunts that only take a few points. WY also has some really good opportunities that only take a few years. MT also has some good hunts that don't take forever. After a few years you can draw some fun hunts while building points for more restricted areas at the same time. Start now, put in for a bunch of places and in a few years you'll have multiple options.
Mike-TN, you're definitely right about a mid-tier unit in AZ vs. OTC CO. However, NoWiser is equally right about the days of getting to hunt AZ every 5-8 years being a lock are over. Sure you'll do OK with 9 points in the draw, but the percentages have changed a ton and they'll change more with the switch the state made in how their draw works. For a rut hunt in Sep with a bow, it's getting tough to draw a tag. I'm at 6 points in AZ now and I don't expect to draw anytime soon. However, at least their current system provides me some small hope of drawing. I hope to draw a tag in another six years or so (or maybe more), then I'll have to make a decision on whether or not I want to bother getting back in the game in AZ. Depends on how long it takes for me to get lucky there...
"This statement is totally untrue and I'm going to prove it this year! I'm unlucky as hell and NoWiser and I are going to draw AZ with only a few points..."
Darn right!! I'm sharpening my broadheads already in preparation for it! Since you are the primary applicant, you are the only one I can blame if we don't draw!
I hope I'm wrong about drawing AZ every 5-8 years, but I just don't see it. Very few will be willing to hold out for a 9, 10, 3 tag anymore. Those shy by a few points are going to jump ship when they see the futility and those that draw them aren't going to hold out for them again.....they won't live long enough. That's going to put a lot more pressure on the low-mid tier units. The same thing is happening with the Wyoming general tag. But, like I said, I hope I'm wrong! One thing I know is that I'm not giving up on AZ until Scoot and I each give a big bull a ride home from that state in the back of our truck!
Yup. The days of drawing a WY tag with 5-8 points are going...going... as well.
The General tag will soon cost 2 points. There's two things that WY elk tags have had going for them and one was that their PP system is newer than the other states, but the years keep going by. The other thing is that they have a lot of tags in the draw. The problem is, lots of people are drawing those tags and getting back into the race and realizing that they'll never catch top-tier units again so they're opting for General Tags and many people just getting into the game are realizing the same thing. The mid-tier units (of which there are few) have steady point creep and will one day suffer from the same jump from top point holders just like CO 61 and some of the AZ units.
Some bad info above and overly optimistic predictions on when you will draw a tag in some of these states, applicants beware. Arizona; the game has changed drastically folks....do the math. Point creep will climb every year for the foreseeable future....it has to, run the numbers....just look at the backlog vs tags given out. You can't base your decision on what it stands at now. Hundreds of guys ahead of you...and only a handful of tags given out....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see.... units in Az that take 25 points to draw in another 10 years...and climbing....but of course you might always get lucky.
We are throwing good money after bad and it does nothing but exacerbate the problem. At some point you have to consider that your first loss was you best loss and move on.
Wait a minute.... unless I am missing something the number of non-res tags in AZ has not changed. They just give less to the max point holders. Statically you should still draw your tags in AZ you just won't know when it is going to happen. Obviously some guys will be luckier than others. I get it.... there are less tags in the max point pool so that will take twice as long as it did to draw in the max point pool but in the previous system you had no random chance.... now you do. Bottom line is there are the same number of non-res tags. At least I believe that is the case Mike TN
Mike is correct. Another fact is that, when comparing 2016 with 2015 draw stats, the sky did not fall.
Additionally, those people who do draw outside of the BP round still go back to zero specie points, so that alone does not allow for a doubling of the speed of point creep in the BP round.
Ok guys this is great and very helpful. Also kinda overwhelming! Haha.. So say I wanna apply in Arizona, what are some units worth applying for if say i want to go on a hunt within 5 to 8 years? Do i just apply for a preference point or do I select a specific unit? I've been looking at the info on there website and currently lost as hell just tbo..lol
"Do i just apply for a preference point or do I select a specific unit?"
First, Arizona doesn't have preference points, they have bonus points. If you don't know the difference, that should be the first thing you learn about applying in various states. Secondly, since you always have a chance of drawing in Arizona, even on your first application, you might as well choose a hunt (unless you really don't want there to be any chance of drawing that particular year, due to other planned hunt date conflicts, etc.).
You can draw any year so you're best off putting in every year, not just building points. You're only going to have a shot with your 1st and 2nd choice if you put in for trophy early archery tags, so choose 2 and forget the rest of your chances unless you want to burn your points on a cow tag. No one's going to give you the unit that they put in for, but this stuff is all researchable so here's the general tier breakdown and others can correct me if they disagree:
The top units are 9 and 23North. The next tier is 10, 1, 3A, and 23South. After that there's 8, 27, 22, and 5BS. Next is the entire rim, basically unit 3B, both 4s, 5s besides 5BS, 7E/W (some will say the 7s belong above), then there's 6A and 11M. There's a couple other units with few tags I'm leaving out. Among all these tags, there's gems that have more value than those in the same "tier," but the average bulls, success rates, and draw odds generally follow these. Some people will disagree with my order based on some local knowledge and their favorites, of course, and big bulls come out of every one of these units.
Agree with most posts on the AZ change. There was not a major change in the few mid-tiers from 2015 to 2016. But I expect that to change quite quickly as folks do the math. I did it and was going to post it but figured why enlighten the folks I'm competing with? It's dismal enough as it is.
Every state has its own brand of point creep. No two states are the same. AZ's is different because they have enough desirable hunts to spread the NRs out enough to prevent run-away point creep except in a couple units and because it costs so much to apply every year.
If CO took 15 OTC units and cut tags in them for all weapons to the point that they were spread in quality from u76 to u2 and created a $150 hunting lic that you had to buy every year, the NR point situation in a decade would be completely different.
Big bulls can come out of just about any unit in AZ If a guy does his homework. I killed a 391" bull last year out of a below mid tier unit.
I've applied in CA, WY, UT, NV, AZ, CO and WA for big game points every year for about 10 years (a few more in some states). I've stopped putting in for tags in NM, MT, and ID because my schedule isn't predictable. I'm hoping to retire in 6 years and plan to draw at least one really good tag every year in addition to hunting AK, AZ (over the counter), etc. I don't mind waiting for really good tags, there are plenty of places to hunt while I wait.
My points Mt sheep 5.Mtn Goat 12 Moose 15. Az Elk 4, Deer 10, Bison10, Sheep 10, Antelope7 Utah Elk 2, Deer 10,Sheep 9 Antelope 5 Moose 9 Bison 10. Nevada Ca bighorn 15, Des Bighorn 15 Deer 10, Elk 1 Wyoming elk 4
So basically if I want to up my odds of drawing a Arizona tag in say the next 4 to 8 years just put in for the units with the most tags available?? Or would a guy be better off putting in for a more quality unit or units and just play the odds?
AZs creep will really show itself in the next couple years as people react to how last year's drawing went. Mike, I believe you're right and the sky didn't fall, and yes, you always have a chance. But the number of points you'll need to have a legit chance (not the 4-5% I currently have with 6 points) is going to climb precipitously over the next couple years. You can agree or disagree, but I'll bet a beer that statement is proven true over the next few years. ...of course NoWiser and I won't care when we beat the 1/20 odds we're fighting in this year's drawing...
Point creep will continue to go up in Az. Another thing you will start to see is guys drawing premier tags back to back now while using the new point guard to there advantage. Major loophole but one I will be using myself.
Well of course the sky isn't falling....but there are enough guys that are just getting into this points game now...or have a few points....that think as the one poster above that they will draw an Az tag "In 5-8 years"....
The game has changed. Az doesn't give out enough tags to clear the backlog....its simple math and the stats are online. I know if I was just starting out with the promise of many of these application services I would want to know what I'm getting in to at $160 a yr in licenses. I along with many here are fortunate enough to have the disposable income to throw at these licenses...some aren't as fortunate.
Ok guys I've been researching and think I'm getting the Arizona thing figured out a little better. But several more questions and I'd like for some honest input on this. I'm 22, if I start putting in now for say one of the mid tier units that Idyllwildarcher listed above could I exspect to get drawn in the next 5 to 8 years? Or how many points are guys drawing some of these tags with? I spose theres draw stats online..?Or as some of you are alluding is Arizona a waste of time and money at this point?? Obviously don't wanna start in on this and then 10 years down the road and a couple grand later figure out I'm on a wild goose chase. Sorry for all the novice questions guys/: Appreciate all the awesome info and advice so far!
Forget the 5-8 years.... half the non- res tags are drawn random. Pick a couple units and start applying. When you draw.... start dancing.
"...if I start putting in now for say one of the mid tier units that Idyllwildarcher listed above could I exspect to get drawn in the next 5 to 8 years?"
I'm not sure which of the four tiers he listed above you are referring to as "mid tier", but if you look at the THIRD tier units that Idyllwild listed above, such as 27 and 22, those currently take 10 points for a RESIDENT to draw in the max point pool. A non-resident will take several more than that. Up to 5% of the tags in a given hunt COULD go to NR's, so there's always a chance (1-1.5% chance at best). But if your question is based upon when can you be somewhat assured of drawing a tag in those third tier units, you are likely looking at 15+ points as things look now, but as has been said it is hard to predict point creep. Those units are currently taking 12-14 points for NR's, so who knows what it will be in 10+ years. If you're talking about first tier units, it's much bleaker than that...
Ok makes sense guys.. Just sucks paying 160 every year for 10 or 12 years only to find out point creep has raped you and you can't even draw a low tier tag. Like I assume someone on here has drawn a tag without reaching the max point pool for a that specific unit?
It was almost impossible to draw a tag in most units without being in the max point pool until last year. That said, I know of a few here who did it.
crazyhawksfan, talking about AZ.... I'm just tired of buying points every year and then having them change the way the do their draw. I have spent $150 - $160 for an AZ lic. to get in the draw for 13 years I put in for unit 1- 3c- I have one point for loyalty, that's for putting in for 5 straight years and if you miss putting in for 5 years they delete all your points. I flew to AZ several years ago and took the non resident course so I have a airline flight , a motel for 2 days, meals for that point. I was at max points to get the unit's I wanted and was familiar with and then they went and changed the draw and it pushed me back a few years. That's the part that I really don't like.....nothing you can do at that point but keep putting in . AZ is a great state to draw an elk tag in !! But personally I have lost a lot of interest in AZ elk (I'll just hunt them in my state) and when I do draw it will be a 1 and done . What it has cost me I could have bought a great landowner tag 10 years ago or maybe 2 of them ....Good luck, I'm just burnt out on it.
"Just sucks paying 160 every year for 10 or 12 years ..."
If it makes you feel any better...it won't stay $160 during that entire time. It will likely increase in price at least once, as will the cost of the tag itself!
Don't be afraid! When I was 22 I never dreamed of an elk hunt due to finances, having to raise a family and developing a career. It simply was not an option. My first Arizona elk tag was at age 51, second at age 58 and I plan on my third at age 65 and I'm a NR. The other can't miss state is Iowa. Good luck C
crazyhawksfan, Now that you have your crash course in point schemes, you should be aware to date nobody seems to know how low states can go in devaluing your points down the road after they have cashed all your checks. I've brought this up on other forums and just got criticized as being negative by some who can't answer that question. Take in point Maine moose, where after I'd been buying 1 point/year they "changed" the rules and started peddling unlimited 10 packs of bonus points for $55. How's that work for ya? I had 3 friends abandon their points and bail. One CA hunter with no points bought $5,000 of 10 packs for three consecutive years, and drew two bull moose tags. Some folks say there should be no limitation on how far this degradation can go, especially zero point holders. I think that's just plain crazy. But there seems to be nobody that can answer my question intelligently. Takes "Let the buyer beware" to a new level, doesn't it? This is what you may be investing in. I've not bought one point out west that hasn't been devalued during the last 20 years either. Best of luck. You can read more about the history of Maine's moose lottery inequities at the archived link above.
Hella bull Mike! Dream bull right there! How long did it take you to draw that tag?.. Also just curious what a guy can buy a landowner tag for?.. And yeah like I said I'm young enough that as of now me and my buddies are just stoked to be hunting elk anywhere.. last year calling in a bull for one of my best buddies and watching him drill it at 5 yards was a dream come true!.. Just thinking down the road is why I'm considering the limited draw options
If you're 22 and have the money, apply for a cpl hunts each year. Eventually you'll draw. 5-8 years? Not gonna happen for most early hunts. What takes 5-8 points in 2017 won't take 5-8 points, 5-8 years from now.
After the draw closes we can discuss numbers but Bruce has pointed it out; residents will cycle thru the Bonus Pass at 15% and non res at 5%. The points needed for residents will decline while the points for non res will increase.
I drew in 2013, should draw this year, and expect to draw one more time before I'm too old. But, like another Bowsiter or two, early hunts are not on my application and I'm OK with that.
So WapitiBob the tags your drawing are post rut hunts?.. Thinking about just going for it.. start applying every year and see what happens!.. I can afford it just hate the idea of the state of Arizona slowly milking away my hard earned money/:
I like hunting in AZ and the people within the dept. If I thought they were "milking away my money" I wouldn't apply. I realize you're a few miles away but that license enables you to hunt for a year. Randy Newberg has some youtube information on how he used that license to hunt this winter. If like me, you only use it to apply for an Elk hunt, it's a choice we make and certainly no fault of the dept.
No landowner tags in AZ (as far as I know). The best units in states that do sell landowner tags (NM, CO, NV) go for $10,000+.
Putting in for Az is worth it! Here's mine from last year on a below mid tier unit.
How did this thread of 5-8 even get started? 7-8 has been the norm as of the last few years. And 10ish for the next tier up.
Ok so one more question. What are the advantages of entering as a party? I have a buddy that wants to play to so we are considering entering as a party. Are there cons to this?
Don't ever do a party app.
In less you jump on with someone with more points than you have
crazyhawksfan AZ doesn't have landowner tags. Draw only. Landowner tags in NM in my unit go for $6,000 per voucher (and going up every year) then you still have to buy the $773 NR license. Some states have LO tags some don't. The NR guys who say they hunt AZ every few years are not hunting big rut crazed, up close bulls. When the rut is over and the bulls go their separate way hunting them with a bow just became a whole different story !! If you love bow hunting elk do what ever it takes to get yourself a tag.
Well ended up jumping in to the mix! A buddy and I put in for just some low tier units.. Just curious has anyone ever been drawn the first year you put in?
I drew a tag in lower ter unit and meet some NR guys That drew there tags with 3 points like I did And then drew it the next year again and they only had the loyalty point
i'm not saying don't apply to Az.... Just be aware its a long term strategy.
Don't make the mistake of using internet assumptions on wait time....or what it took to draw 'last year'. You can't base your assumption on point totals that drew in the past as points will continue to creep every year due to the backlog of hunters with points and not clearing them fast enough.
Guys talking about the 'lesser units'...but these will experience the same creep in Az due to guys dropping down and drawing out.
I looked at U27 for a buddy that has 13pts and a friend that lives in 27 that will help him. Last year folks with 18,19 points drew that unit....wow! Thats a lot of years to wait for an elk tag. I don't have the actual numbers in front of me but they only gave out about 7 tags in bonus rds...and there were a bunch of guys with 12,13,14,15 points that put in and didn't draw last year. The bad news for him....he still might be 3-4 years out.....
Don't shoot the messenger....i'm just trying to clear it up for new guys.
Beendare, appreciate the warning. Unfortunately we've already thrown caution into the wind;) Will probably end up regretting it 10 or 12 years down the road when we still haven't drawn one of our "low" tier units/: Guess we'll see how it rolls!
Bigdan and Scoot, appreciate the optimism and the advice you guys have offered!
$20 says crazyhawlkfan draws his first year applying! lol
I hope you didn't apply as a group?
Haha a guy can always dream right?!.. No we entered separate.
Good luck in the draw, Logan.
Not trying to dove-tail off of his thread...but say if I were to apply today for Arizona, and if it falls on the 2nd Tuesday of February, which is the 13th next year, on certain years (such as this and next year), I could use my hunting license I buy today to get in to next year's draw since it will be valid at the end of next year's application period, correct? If I have to spend the 160 every year it's not the end of the world, but if I can be sneaky on certain years and get 2 years out of one license I'd like to do it.
Luke - I'm not positive, but what you say sounds correct. Here's what Arizona F&G says "As a reminder, applicants must possess a valid Arizona hunting license to apply online for a hunt permit-tag. That license must be valid on the last day of the application period." Bought mine yesterday... I would certainly do some checking though because I'd hate to be "sneaky" as you put it and end up missing out on a point or being thrown out of the draw that year for $160.
--Mitch
One other thing about buying a licence Late is you can use it in 2017 for a deer Or jav hunt and use it for the Jan 2018 deer season
Yes, apply and buy license today, use it on the last day again next year.
Few thoughts/comments from a random guy with a random draw strategy. Started out exactly like u 30 yrs ago but didn't get into draw game until 17 yrs ago. Lots of good info above, very little bad. Agree that Huntinfool and Eastman's do a good job teaching the various systems and how to play. I have given HF as a gift to young guys like you and every year they play the game as they learn. As one poster noted the game can change in any state any time. An example of better to b lucky than good as well as state changing rules as follows: I drew unit 1 Az in 2011 with 14 pts AND drew unit 15 NM. They join one another, dates overlap just right. my outfitter friends camp right on the line. Perfect scenario to go guided in Az and unguided NM. Took two weeks off then Wallow fire hit and burned almost all of unit 1 and lots of 15 along with severe drought. Az also increased tags from 150 to 250 ( as I recall) that year . NM was terrible and Az was crowded with hunters, lots of smaller bulls all jammed into unburned ground along with bird hunters, quad drivers etc. Disappointed I vowed never to apply in NM again and only apply in Az to build sheep points. Got my arm twisted by my NM friend and outfitter to apply in NM next year and drew and killed a 409 inch bull. Drew NM again next year and killed nice bull. I have drawn NM 2 times in 12 years but worth it Applied one time only in ID at last minute and drew Shiras tag and killed nice archery bull hunting with just my wife. That one hunt made up for all the years I struck out. . So you have to play and b patient, pendulum of luck can swing any minute. . Have 15 pts in Co , 14 in Utah , 9'in Wyo plus other species and wrestle every year on how to play, its fun. When younger and raising boys I struggled with where to spend my dollars just like many here, wish I had not dropped my NV points but money tighter then. Now that I am old it is hard to justify building points I may very well not live to use or have the physical ability to use, but I'll take that chance. If I had it to do over would for sure apply NM every year. Idaho if I had an excuse to use the $160 license for something else OTC if I didn't draw, Iowa is a no brainer. Az and Utah and Wyoming apply multiple species. Good luck and have fun!
Hey guys just want to thank you all again! I've learned a ton in a very short time!. I guess the Wyoming elk is already closed??
Also in New Mexico a first time applier has just as good of chance to draw as someone who has been putting in for say 10 years? Is that right?
You can still get WY points for this year like July-end of Oct
Wyoming is closed as far as putting in for the elk draw but starting in July through October you can put in for points only then apply for elk the next January 1 - 30
In NM there is no points you put in for the draw by yourself or through the outfitter pool for slightly better odds. The 16's - 34 - 36 - 15 are some of the toughest units to draw but NM does have some units that have a lot better odds.
Dang you guys are awesome!:) sweet I thought I had missed my chance for a Wyoming point! And thanks for answering the nm question!..
