Leaving elk overnight
Elk
I always see stuff about this and hear drastic different stories.
I liver shot an elk with bow in Sept years ago. I knew I gut shot so left overnight. I shot him right at sunset. I tracked at first light it took me 1-1/2 hours to find him and sun had just risen and hit him. There was frost here and there (dew other places). so temps were 30-35.
I found an immediately butchered him the meat was fine.
Fast forward to 2016. I shot a medium size cow about 30 minutes before sunset. Problem was temps were in teens, cloudy and some wind. I thought she crossed the creek to me. It turned out she crossed a bend, meaning she was still on the other side. I had a 2 mile hike out in snow and low teens temp - and water was deeper then my boots. I could not cross without risking frost bite.
We started to trail 1 hour after light (so as not to bother to many other hunters). While hiking in (over an hour) it occurred to me that mid December nights are a loooot longer. Found elk and started butchering close to noon. Temps had warmed at it was raining 35 degrees).
I was very very worried about my elk when I realized I did not butcher her until about 18 hours after I shot!
She was bloated a lot, even meat was! Anywhere I stuck my knife went pppsssshhhh!!!!
Got her cooled off fast and had long flight home with delays. Luckily we flew out the next day and temps dropped to single digits, or below 0 overnight. Got meat to 35 degrees quick.
Got her home and it was the best eating elk I have ever had.
So meat was ok.
FYI for reference.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID12/16918.html
I figured you guys would like, more stuff on MM at link above
I agree not to shoot if you cannot at least gut the elk, I have left many elk gutted overnight, I also prop open back legs, skin top back leg and logs under so air circulates. You will not loose meat this way if temps are 50 or below IMO. Definetly ok when temps are 40 or below. When I hear stories where people claim to have lost meat this way I simply do not believe them - not possible - and yes it is an exact science! How do you think good cow steaks are aged 30 days! Granted size, wind, varying temps and changing temps make it impossible to figure out but estimating is pretty easy.
Had I known elk was on the other side of a creek I would could have easily picked a different one - but again she crossed the creek but just a bend no way I could have known creek was between me and her.
No way I could cross without getting severe frostbite, very very cold, 2' deep running, 15' across, 2-3 mile hike to any road/vehicle.
And also keep in mind I did not freeze that meat for days. Next day was mid 30's we were there 2 or 3 more days AND had a looong delay in flight with meat at Denver airport inside for 4 or 5 hours. Also meat in carry on bags on 2 flight, and at home put outside overnight. So even after that meat was not frozen for 4-5 days.
Granted I bet I really pushed it but bottom line is all meat was 100% ok.
The only elk I ever lost I found right away, bow NM in AM with frost in AM. Gutted him and had a long hike out and drive around to get back in. Problem was my guesstimate for sun was off and what I thought would be shade was not. Elk laid in blazing sun with tons of bees and flies. Yuck. Then long hike out and drive to butcher.
I ate the meat but it was clearly partially spoiled, tasted not good, I ate all or most of it but not good.
Like I said I was not worried until during long hike in it occurred to me that I was gone from her for much longer then it would seem!
It still seems odd to me by the time I got her gutted it was 20 hours from when I shot her! Dark early, respected other hunters and did not head in for first hour or two and looong hike in. It just never occurred to me I could shoot an elk at dark head in early but be gone almost a full day!
Again this post is as an fyi knowledge is power.
Also a good thing I now bring on all hunts is a small infared thermal reader. I think it cost me $10 and weighs less then an ounce. Point at surface push button and read temp. I always have big cookouts at my house after a hunt so people can eat fresh never frozen meat so this things is GREAT for checking meat and getting it right to 33 degrees for best aging.
I think as a general rule, everything and I mean everything should be done to find and get the meat taken care of ASAP. Even if you have to track in the dark. I understand on guy shot animals, it may take many hours to die. But the crap they pull on white tails on tv where they leave everything till the next morning won't fly.
My brother shot an elk at 6 pm one night in September, shot was way far back. Could clearly see arrow as it ran off and stood way out of range and then walked off. There was no sense tracking that night with what we saw. Came back and arrived at spot the elk was last seen and it was laying dead yards away. Must've hit a major artery. Elk was cold and we butchered as fast as possible. The underside was warm. And we lost a little meat off the inside of the front and rear.
I was surprised at how little loss there was. But as we were working the sun began hitting it and if we were any later, I feel it would have been toast.
Shot a cow in MT just at dark. Trailed her at 11pm with gas lantern. After about 150 yards the trail just disappeared. Turned out she had walked back up the trail about 30 yards, climbed straight up hill about 50 yards into a juniper patch and died.
The arrow entered the "taint" and exited behind the right shoulder.
We found her at 9am. Night was mid 30's and windy.
She was fine.
Whenever something like this happens, I always keep track of the down and up side and keep the meat separate . If you have trouble, it will be the down side since the heat has no place to go.
Personally I've seen an elk spoil overnight in below freezing temperatures. My experience is that it is somewhat irrelevant what the air temperature is. Elk will retain their body heat and will spoil from the inside out. At a minimum I think it helps to get them opened up if you can.
I shot a bull back in 2003 and he took a step right at the shot and I hit him in the paunch. It was right at dark. I watched him go into a patch of timber. There was about 4inches of snow. I came back in the morning and found him but the coyotes and a bear already had thier feast and not a lot of meat left. I packed in a tree stand and shot a blackbear that night.
I've shot a few bulls right at dark and had to back out and retrieved the next morning and things were fine. Even with warm September temps. It always makes me nervous thou as a lot of heat can be held in them
I agree, under most circumstances everything should be done to find an animal that's been shot in the evening. That includes bloodtrailing, and taking care of the meat, regardless of the time. However, there are times when that just isn't the best option.
Case in point was my elk this year. I shot her with an hour of shooting light left, so I waited 20 min to climb out of my stand. The arrow was bright red from BH to nock, with good blood within 5yds. She bled like the proverbial stuck pig until she hit the bottom of the ridge, where it's mostly grass until you get on the other side of the creek. I found some blood once she hit the grass, then the faucet shut off. She had three ways to go...downstream, straight across, or upstream. The easiest route, therefore the most logical, was straight across the creek. I found nothing. Next was downstream. The willows would have forced her onto one trail had she went that way. After covering 20yds, I again had yet to find even one drop of blood. By now it was getting dark. I hated to, but discretion made me back out until morning. Like Bowboy's, she moved at the shot and I hit her a little further back than I'd intended. I still felt it was a good hit, but I wasn't positive. Since the blood trail was now spotty at best, I didn't want to risk blowing her out of the country if she was still alive. Better to risk losing some meat rather than all of it.
At first light, I hit it again. I still didn't think she had went upstream, since it was the most difficult by far, so I tried the two paths from the night before. Still nothing, so I finally relented and started upstream. After about 10yds, I was shocked to see a drop of blood. It wasn't much bigger than a speck, but at least now I knew. Slowly but surely, I started seeing a drop of blood every few feet. I finally saw a drop on a rock on the far side of the creek. As soon as I crossed, I looked through the willows and saw her. I sat down and had to take a little break. Between no sleep, and the stress of thinking I might lose her, I had to say a prayer of Thanks.
As someone stated above, I knew the meat that had been next to the ground would be most at risk. There's just nowhere for that heat to go, regardless of air temperature. As it turned out, I lost approx. 30lbs of meat. It sucked, but could have been worse.
I have to admit, even though it can be some great hunting, I'm starting rethink how close to dark I'm going to stop hunting in the evenings.
We usually get 5 or 6 elk a year that are spoiled due to improper field care. Usually it is the larger bulls that have a large body mass and haven't been skinned and quartered. The pelvis around the ball joint and neck/shoulder areas are green and have a odor that is pretty bad. Not many cows are spoiled, not letting the body heat escape the carcass along with the blood are the main reasons for spoilage.
Coyotes got the lions share of my elk that I left overnight, salvaged less than 40lbs, it was delicious though
We've left them a number of times on questionable hits at last light and have never lost any meat, even on some that died right away. Never had any tainted meat either except on one big bull many years ago when I trimmed some around the hip socket. Otherwise he was great.
In the early days we saw lost elk where the recovery effort bumped them In the dark. After that we always left them, found them at first light, skinned, quartered and bagged, then aged like normal for a week-10 days like anything else.
My big high desert bull was a great hit but he spun so fast and disappeared over the hill that I decided to give him the night night after not seeing or hearing him fall after he stopped for a moment. With the shot angle I was afraid I'd hit too far back but it turned out to be a heart shot. It was a warm night and never got below 50. He likely died within a minute of being shot. I was worried sick all night. Got him quartered and packed out in 70-80 degree weather and to a cooler in the nearest town at 3:00 that afternoon. It was pushing 90 degrees by then. That bull was one of the best eating bulls we've ever had.
I'm baffled by the stories of spoiled elk left overnight. Never seen it happen if the elk was recovered, skinned and quartered first thing in the morning.
My son shot a cow and couldn't find any blood but was pretty sure the shot was good. The problem was it started raining hard but I managed to find 5 drops of blood and was able to track her just by prints. The rain got so bad I called the search for the night and felt really bad for my son as this was his first shot at an elk. In the morning we resumed our search and walked right into her. She was liver shot and I thought she lived a good while that night. We did lose some of the bottom that kept the heat in.
I lost probably 90% of the meat on a bull I shot several years ago.
I shot the bull mid day on a sunny and dry day, probably in the 50s. The shot was poor; low and back, probably a little in front of mid-body. I tracked the bull for the remainder of the afternoon through the timber, and came to a point where I could not come up with a direction of travel from the spot I was at. Since darkness was approaching, I called the search off for the day.
Overnight it rained and changed to snow on the mountain. When I climbed up the next day there was 3-4" on the ground and a super wet snow falling. I grid searched and found the elk, but it was around mid-day again. Thus, it was nearing 24 hrs from time of shot to recovery. It was hard to tell exact time of death though.
It certainly isn't anything to ignore. I don't think this is a great thread, as there is almost a hint of encouragement to leave one over night. Different combinations created by weather can certainly increase the likelihood of spoilage, so it is best to get to it as quick as possible once dead.
In this specific instance, I'm not sure what would have been best. I honestly believe I would have just pushed him further away had I continued searching into the night. Obviously, the best advice is to make a good killing shot, but we all know (well mostly) that things don't always happen that way.
Franzen, in your case 24 hours was too long, no matter what. Bummer, but it happens and you got some closure.
I would wager that 10x the amount of elk meat is lost every year due to guys following up too soon in the dark than from leaving one overnight after an unsure shot.
Agree 100% -- If hesitant or unsure of shot impact on a late evening hunt leave them be until morning. We've had to do this a few times & most the meat was great! To me liver shot elk are the worst, they bleed like hell for 75-100 yards offering encouragement & second guessing in continuing on because of amount of blood found on the ground in a short distance! That elk can go over a mile when pushed!
ElkNut1
x3 Jaq. I am color blind. Unless I know for a fact that I put an arrow into the "good stuff", I am going to err on the side of caution and back out. If shot is a little far back, nothing worse than jumping a bedded critter (In the dark while tracking) and putting the fear of god in them. #1- You know the animal was hurt if it was bedded and you jumped it. #2- Even if wound isn't clotted, running animals spread the blood out over longer distances vs walking animals.
I would rather wait until sunrise and risk a possible meat loss vs jumping an animal causing a tougher tracking job and almost guaranteeing meat loss, if not a lost animal.
I know you guys are right on that. I just hate to see happen what we hear of all too often from tv; i.e. "This elk/deer has big horns. Let's leave it overnight just in case." I think it is worth evaluating all conditions at hand for each individual scenario to come up with a sound decision on whether or not to back out and leave it overnight.
We lost a good bit of one hindquarter on a ID bull left overnight. Days were sunny and in the 50s, nights were low 20s, high teens. Shot at about 2pm and backed out. Recovered first light the next morning. Didn't go near as far as we thought it might, actually died pretty quickly. Bull was covered with frost. Lost mostly at the hip socket on the ground side. We figured he must have gone down on a patch of bare dirt that had been in the sun and warmed up during the day. The rest of him was fine, maybe lost 20 lb or so I'd guess.
Also have gotten on em the next morning after leaving all night and they were bedded but head up and alert. Slipped in and put another arrow in him. Recovered all the meat and it was fine eating. Been on a couple that SHOULD have been left overnight but were bumped and never recovered. 100% meat loss.
The decision to leave overnight is not one I would make based on meat recovery...... but recovery at all.... if the hit was the least bit sketchy I'd back out if possible.
Those TV guys are in a different time zone. They're not concerned about the meat in most cases. Plus, giving it until morning will give time to bring out the tracking army, find the thing, then construct a tracking segment after the animal is found.
Good to have a cameraman along for sure...... those guys are bloodhounds..... always the first to the animal......
Had a Boykin Spaniel that recovered 2 Six point bulls and 4 deer that were untraceable. No training whatsoever but put a leash on her, take her to the hit site and hold on.
Now that's a real blood hound.
"Good to have a cameraman along for sure...... those guys are bloodhounds..... always the first to the animal...... "
TD, I almost shot water out my nose! Truly laughed out loud! Some cameramen are such good trackers they can even find a different animal than the one originally shot by the celebrity hunter....
I really dislike not finding an elk until the next morning because a loss of 20# of meat is guaranteed: the liver, heart, kidneys, and sometimes tenderloins. Maybe it's the smell of soured guts when I open up one that's laid overnight, but I can't bring myself to harvesting these parts in this circumstance. Is anyone's experience different?
Same here, but we quit eating organs after CWD became prevalent where we hunt. Always gutless no matter what, so the soured gut smell isn't an issue.
Losing tenderloins is a bummer, but better than losing the whole elk from bumping them too soon if there's any question about the shot placement.
If the meat is spoiled are you required to bring it out?
Just asking because a game warden would likely be asking you some very pointed questions about why you only have a little bit of meat.... along with a rack
I think that the best thing to do in any situation is to try and find the animal the same day/night as you shot it. Of course, some things come up and it's not possible to track them or find them the same night, but you have to do everything you can to find them. You never want the meat to spoil and if it does, what really is the point of harvesting the animal. As to whether leaving them overnight will cause the meat to spoil, it really depends on the conditions. If you can find an animal the same day/ night as you shot it the least you can do is to gut it and let it sit and cool overnight. This will at least give the meat a chance to cool off. That way in the morning you can go in and bring the meat out and it's already cooled and everything.
Here in AK you better not show up with a rack and not much meat.
I have left a few overnight. Both gutted and those that I backed out on. Only elk meat I have had spoil was my first hunt. Made the decision that I was going to shoot the first adult elk I had a good shot on. First night a big cow walks right up to me and I shoot her. Waited till dark and went down the mountain to get the guide. He says we better wait until morning to many bears in the area. Ok your the boss. Overnight temps were not below 70 that night. Took a few hours to find her. She had been chewed on pretty good by the bears and was covered in flies and there eggs. Shot was not what I thought it was she was more quartering away than I thought and I had hit the guts a bit on the way in. Lost most of the meat on that one and every bit I ate smelled like she did when we found her. Worst elk ever.
That sucks, surely something to consider. Bear country, time of shot, and no marginal shots.
I've guided tv crews and most of the time when they act like they are unsure of the hit, the deer is dead. They shut the camera off and go find their buck, set him in the truck where he will stiffen in a good pose. Then in the morning the go get daylight footage of the recovery. I haven't seen any lost meat because the animal is positioned on its belly and not it's side. It's also in the back of a cold truck, not on the ground. TV hunters generally make me sick and I don't watch their shows.
Three bulls I left out/found until morning were good to eat. One was shot through the lungs and went 500 yards in the dark, but was not recovered until early the next day around 8am as the sun was just casting its rays on the animal. A quick job of de- boning the animal, taking the bagged meat into the shade and then three hours later to the butcher, saved all of the meat. A similar situation a few years later when I found the bull the next day. Processed the bull the next morning and back to camp, but stayed in camp for the next three days. Placed all of the bagged up meat in Contractor sized plastic bags and placed them in a near by cold creek. Just like a refrigerator. No meat lost then or prior, taking it to the butcher.
The third bull was also shot through the lungs. That evening, I gutted him, propped him open to cool, and then slid timbers under him to elevate the animal off the ground. Returned in the morning to finish the job. Got all of the meat to the butcher that day. No meat loss.
So, of the three bulls, two sat over night (not freezing but cool nights) with guts in, but because I arrived early and process the animals, no meat loss was accrued.
I've done the same as Paul N. -- Not much beats putting quarters or boned meat in creeks/streams to cool meat down. Kept in shade after that to allow meat to seal/scab, works great!
Personally I would not allow my good judgment to be clouded by pushing an elk knowing I made a marginal shot too early because I was concerned with losing organ meat or tenderloins, as Jaq mentions it beats losing the whole animal plus I don't care for heart - liver so don't take them anyway! (grin)
ElkNut1
This doesn't work on Elk the way it is portrayed on TV. If you leave them overnight and they are dead when it gets dark you WILL lose meat...
ELKMAN, with all due respect between us elk killers, that's not necessarily true. Read my first post above, especially about my big high-desert bull that certainly died by dark and the temps never got below 50 in the night. It was pushing 90 by the time we got the bagged meat to a chiller. All of that meat was recovered (except tenderloins) and he was one of the best eating elk we've ever had.
If I have to leave an elk overnight, I would far rather leave one in early season when hair is short than later in the year regardless of the temps. The thickness of their hair makes a huge difference in how much heat is retained.
I can remember leaving 4 elk overnight after being shot. 2 were good hits and 2 were not. I've never lost 1 ounce of elk meat. The key is to get the meat off the bone and cooling asap. A buddy gut shot a bull one evening and we didn't find it until noon the next day. It never got below 50 at night. I doubted our efforts but we got after it and got it off the bone fairly quickly. I always have a 150qt cooler full of block ice in the truck when I'm elk hunting. We got the meat in cold water and covered in ice by about 1:30 and we save it all. I had one on a solo back pack hunt where I got the meat off by about 10:00 the next morning and it took me 2 full days to get it out. It never got below 50 on that hunt either and was pushing 70 during the day. I was worried about the 2 bags taken out on the second day so I kept them in a separate cooler, just in case. Every bit of it was great. Get it off the bone and cooling as soon as you can. It will bone sour if you leave the bone on it.
Lots of factors can determine how much meat is lost, if any. Ground temp, air temp, how much fat the animal has, etc. How early in the night the animal died probable effects the outcome as much, if not more so, than anything.
No guarantee you'll lose any meat, just as there's no guarantee you won't. It's a risk we must sometimes take.
cnelk, in the scenario i described above I was in contact with the warden. I ended up bringing all the meat out just to see how much could be salvaged. Unfortunately, very little.
The warden was going to allow me to leave it there if I chose to do so and let him know about it. One thing that I had in my favor was that I brought the first load down and had it with me when talking with him. I figured I may as well try to save what I could, and also not try to make things harder on the warden if someone stumbled upon it and started questioning.
I would think it depends more on what time of year it is. I have seen elk on the early hunts be just fine gutted and left overnight. But have been on two late hunts ( after thanksgiving) when they were gutted at last light and left overnight with freezing temps and both bulls were ruined after packing out first light the next morning. Maybe because the hides were more haired up because of the colder temps? Don't know.
Jaq: It sounds like to me you "lost meat". That's all I said is "You WILL lose meat". No telling how much you will lose, or the extent of the damage, but elk are to big to lay overnight and not lose something. I have seen guys lose meat around the sockets on the rear and inner front at 10 degrees with the bull gutted but left intact on the ground. I will tell you this: from the conditions and situation you described on your bull, you may be the luckiest man on earth... jmho
No question, we did lose the tenderloins. The first thing I did after separating the hindquarters was sniff the sockets. Smelled fine. We were sure we'd lose that area at least. My sinuses are a little goofed up from two surgeries but my hunting partner can smell a grasshopper fart. He couldn't believe it either.
Then all we had was shade from game bags to work with so we frantically separated and bagged everything and packed the bags to where we could get an ATV at the edge of the wilderness. (Packed on open frames, not a closed pack). Raced back to camp and drove 90 minutes to the nearest meat cooler, with the meat elevated in the back of my 4Runner with all the windows down. We chose that instead of his pickup because the sun would be shining on it all the way in the bed. Aged 8 days, didn't lose anything except the tenderloins. Even the neck meat was fine. It did rain in the night (even though it was in the 50's) and that mayvhave wicked some heat away. Also thin summer hair in the hide.
But of the 120 or so archery elk kills I've been involved with, some others died shortly after dark and we only lost tenderloins if recovered first thing in the morning . Back in the day before we knew any better we would mobilize everyone in camp with flashlights to go track in the dark. We did recover some, but also lost some that were jumped from their beds. We'd have recovered them if we'd waited.
Here's how we found him. T-shirt weather right after sunup.
I left a bull that I shot with 10 minutes of shooting light. Made a good shot, however we were on the end of a ridge that dropped off into hell on all but one side. I knew he didn't go far and heard him cough 30 seconds after the shot. I was not going to push him down one of those hills and risk losing him. I was back 30 minutes before light with my headlamp doing a body search because it rained like hell all night. He was 75 yards from where I shot him. Meat was excellent and I even kept the inner loins. Another one my hunting partner "made a good shot" on we couldn't find after an hour of stumbling around in the dark. Came back the next day and worked up the drainage. Found him by scent. He had shot him in the rear end through the ham and into the liver. Did not lose any meat and again he was a great tasting elk. If you are tossing meat just because you left it overnight and are sure it spoiled I suspect you were a bit to cautious. I was witness to some shenanigans that cost a bunch of meat. Fella that we were camped with shot a big 6x at dawn. Didn't have a camera. Made a bad choice and followed the drainage out to where we were camped and blew off his plan to meet a driver on the road at 11. He came walking into camp at 1, drainage is the long way around. We high tailed it to the kill site and his Dad is there with the elk not even gutted. They didn't want to ruin the pictures!! They tossed a good amount of that elk. Who puts a picture in front of elk meat. Good buddy of mine forgot his camera the day he killed his first bull. Here is what his pictures look like. We gutted that one and took out the hind quarters the first trip.
Im 60 years old. Been hunting elk since i was old enough to go.One thing i have learned.Don't leave an elk out over night with the guts in unless you absolutely have to. I hear people say they do it and the meat is OK.Well in my opinion that ok meat would have been excellent if tended to in a timely fashion.
"I would think it depends more on what time of year it is. I have seen elk on the early hunts be just fine gutted and left overnight. But have been on two late hunts ( after thanksgiving) when they were gutted at last light and left overnight with freezing temps and both bulls were ruined after packing out first light the next morning. Maybe because the hides were more haired up because of the colder temps? Don't know. "
I think you are right on. Hide insulating qualities. ie time of season is a bigger deal than most realize. It can happen on big bodied whitetail also. It's always been surprising to me to see how much longer a late Nov/Dec hide will hold body heat in versus an Set/Oct hide.
It's a simple equation, surface area, OAT and hide heat transfer ( or non-transfer , depending on how you look at it) ability, but the inputs of the variables cause a wide disbursement in results. Therefore I think the hide insulating data point carries more weight than I previously thought.
I've learned a lot since getting a thermal scope for varmint hunting. Quite a range of static temps , even in similar terrain.
i had a friend shoot a bull at last light he called for my tracking dog, which I was using at the time. I told him I would come as soon as I was done, he said don't bother we will track it in the morning. the elk was found shortly after day light, the elk only went couple hundred yards they had him out in hours and to the locker, the same locker i use, his bull smelled sour and the butcher said he would not eat it. ended up losing half the meat
Guys my story this year makes it clear. 18 hours until found. Medium size cow (definitely not small) Not cold, late season (thick hair) and even airport layovers not frozen and elk is perfect, 0 loss.
Makes um... WHAT clear?
Based on your story, I would say "don't give up until you see that you've lost it"... but no guarantees...
An anecdotal sample size of one doesn't make anything more, or less, clear.
The leftover night countdown start time is a big unknown. I've been in on two purely gut shot elk and in both cases we found them alive about 15 hours later. Both were late hits and both were fine, but with a true gut (not liver) shot, the animal remains alive for a minimum of 12 hours, probably more.
I believe this accounts for a lot of the "we left it overnight and it was fine" stories.
