Multi State Application Game
Elk
Its that time of year that western states are open for elk applications and I see many BSers applying in lots of different states.
Curious as to 'why'?
Is AZ better than Montana? Is Utah better than NV? Is New Mexico better than Montana?
Is it the lure of hunting in a new state?
Aside from applying in Colorado, I just apply for WY. Between those 2 states, that is enough for me
AZ is worth it IMO but it takes a long time to get a tag and pricey in the long haul. Utah is ok but low draw odds. UT is cheapet than applying for AZ. I know nothing about NV. I'm sure some will chime in concerning NV. I would agree it's the lure of hunting elk in different state and environment.
I'm a flatlander that lives east of the Mississippi....so bowhunting big game, other than whitetail deer, means hunting away from my home state by default.
I apply for several species in several different states....most of those having extremely long odds....but you can't win if you don't play.
For elk specifically, I target seven state draws in the hopes of drawing one or two in any given year. My actual elk applications vary year to year....so there is a bit of strategy behind those.
Big game draws provide "the thrill of victory" (getting the applications in on time with a glimmer of hope)....and "the agony of defeat" (rejection and unsuccessful notices). But again, you can't win if you don't play!
I have been applying for hunts in other states for about 15 years I have had three AZ elk tags One Nevada along with Utah And New Mexico. Two elk tags in Wyoming The limited numbers of Hunters and the size of the bulls is why. And I always have My Montana Elk tag to fall back on. I put in for other animals in Them other states but have only drew one deer tag in Nevada back in 1988. For years I also hunted Idaho for elk. I stopped hunting Idaho years ago when I changed hunting any bull to only hunting P&Y Class Bulls only I did kill Three P&Y Bulls over the 13 years I hunted Idaho But the wolf thing put a stop to me hunting Idaho. In my home State of Montana I have drew Two Sheep tags Three goat tags And Two Moose tags I have drew a breaks Archery every year but one sense it went to a draw. The one year I Didn't draw a tag was when I applied for then breaks as a second pick. As a Montana Senior resident I get all my tags and permits for about $58 not counting the big three. I love hunting new places here is two of my bulls I shot in 2005 in az And Nevada My three biggest bulls came from Arizona, Nevada & Alberta I only hunted in Nevada two days and killed my Az bull first day of my hunt at 8:15 am
If I apply in 5 states, with an average of 10 points drawing a mid tier unit in each. That means 5 outa 10 years im hunting mid tier units in Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and so on. There's more to my strategy than that but that's essentially it. The off years I hunt otc. I think most would agree a mid tier unit in Arizona is far better than an otc unit.
In short, why? Because shooting a 300" plus in otc areas, while possible, is not likely. It is very common in mid tier units in the states I mentioned.
Co an wyomimg do it for me. However I am in the AZ and Utah draws as well. I hope to shoot a nice bull but when it's all said and done. I just want to say I hunted them. The adventure of hunting a different state is a lot of fun.
I personally apply in several different states with the goal of getting a "mid-tier" hunt there some day (5 years or so).
I can see your point Brad, how you just hunt your home state and occasionally a neighboring state and that's good enough. You've killed a bunch of elk and know some areas really well, kind of like I do turkey hunting here in MO. On occasion, I'll enjoy heading out to a completely different state like Nebraska for a turkey hunt, but I enjoy pursuing them on land which I have learned and have had many hunts with my dad, boys and other friends. Each time out you see spots where so and so killed a bird on that rainy day, or "remember that opening morning down in the meadow when we doubled". Familiar spots with familiar people certainly is nice. For us NR, perhaps we haven't nailed a spot down yet with all those memories elk hunting, so we float around more from state to state seeking opportunities whether its solitude or bigger bulls...
--Mitch
The perpetually upward trending points "game" is not really worth it to me. I am even contemplating getting out of WY draws. That is the only place I have points, but I haven't decided if I am going to build for elk again or not. I'll probably give another go at a general because of the outside chance of drawing in the random.
I may consider NM, ID, & CO in the future. I like the idea of Idaho because I can put in for a highly sought after species and hunt otc elk on the paid-for license if I don't strike gold, albeit I don't know if some of the hunting in general is on par with some other states.
I live in Colorado, we have plenty of elk here. Colorado is the only state I apply and hunt elk in.
Because I want to hunt elk in several different states before I die and draw a couple of premier units where the elk may be so stupid that even I might be able to kill one!
AZ was better than Utah. Utah had bigger bulls than NM but NM had more Elk. All three had more Elk than WY. WY had bigger bulls on average than OR but about the same quantity.
So, if I want a better hunt than I get at home, I need to hunt another state.
The better bull elk hunts usually have tag awarded in a limited draw where non-residents are competing for just a few tags. Many states only look at your first choice so if you are applying as a non-resident in UT for elk then the better units offer 1 to 10 tags for you and most likely over 100 non-residents are chasing those tags. The most preference points get every other tag in a draw so effectively a newcomer is trying to get just half the tags allotted to non-residents. The result, 1 in 200 odds effectively. Arizona is similar but look at 2 choices if your application is pulled. WY awards 75% to the higher point holders. CO awards all primo elk tags based on preference except for a few draws that fall into a special category where a couple of tags are set aside for random. If you apply in 5 or 10 Western states for the best elk tags then for the first 10 to 30 years you are actually chasing a small portion of tags. If instead you go after a middling tag then your odds get about 10x better and if just want a tag of any quality then are OTC or leftover elk tags in CO, WY, ID and MT. Landowner tags can be bought in NM, CO, UT and NV. I think the applicants putting in for a dozen or more draws (like myself) are chasing the more difficult tags that, on average, will take 20 to 100 years to draw.
For me its the lure of hunting new country...and a stupid goal of killing an elk in all the western states.
After this year I'll have 5 points in Utah and Wyoming. To answer your question, I started before I even went on my first elk hunt because a few people I trusted told me to, and I figured I would want to go on a "special" hunt in 10-20 years. I really don't even know how I picked those 2 states. In hindsight I wouldn't play the points games again. Not a trophy hunter but been more than happy with my OTC hunts. But I've paid too much into the system to quit, I'm just hoping Utah pans out before I'm an old man and that it lives up to expectations at that point, and I'll probably burn a couple points just for WY general next year.
Elk hunting in the Rocky mountains to me is the premier bowhunt in North America. To elk hunt I must drive West and limited entry hunt jack up the odds of success and size.
I am not an any elk guy I normally pass on rag horns and smallish bulls. Draw hunting beefs the quality and I want to hunt mature animals regardless of the species.
NM and AZ to are much easier to hunt because of terrain and potential for adverse weather. Montana was the most difficult in planning and hunting plus it is very frustrating watching legal bulls on private property.
For NM, AZ, WY, and MT are the places that I choose to plan for the reasons mentioned above.
I've hunted elk in CA, NM, and OR and have applied for points in WY, CO, AZ, NV, UT, and WA (not elk) ever year for over a decade. I'd like to draw one excellent tag in each of those states at some point. The point systems out west occasionally change but you can't expect to draw a great limited entry tag if you never apply.
cnelk, it's because of the quality of the hunts as measured by age class of the bulls, bull:cow ratios, and number of hunters.
Last thing im going to do is stress over a tag. I dropped az. I will keep up my points in a couple states and if i draw fine.
I still hunt elk every yr in OTC... and its all good.
Many states give you the option for other species and different opportunities. To me it isn't just about elk it is about all the other available species.
Plus in many states it is about Solo hunting and all that goes with that aspect of self esteem.
I'm content with my success, full freezer every fall and my Trophy Room
Good luck, Robb
I noticed that the only people that said they are content hunting their own state were from CO and the tags are OTC. For the people that live in most of the rest of the states, elk tags are either non-existent or on a lottery. You have to apply to many states as a NR in order to have a chance to go elk hunting each year. I guess they could buy an OTC tag in CO, but my impression of CO elk hunting is that you normally have to pack in quite a few miles, hunt some pretty rough terrain, in order to kill a rag-horn bull in most cases. To me, given the logistics and expense of hunting as a NR in another state, I'd rather have a legitimate chance at a nice bull. Even if I don't take one, just seeing nice bulls periodically during a hunt makes it worthwhile. Seeing just cows and rag horns doesn't do it for me.
In 1991 we started traveling to Colorado each fall for OTC archery elk. I only wish someone would've wised me up in those days to start building points in CO and all across the west. It wasn't until 2004 that we even started getting points for deer & elk in CO. The next year was the first year Wyoming started their point system for elk, so at least my son & I got in on the ground floor of that. Then we slowly added more states and more species, to up our chances each year.....AZ, NM, ID, UT, NV, WY, MT, OR. We don't apply in CA or WA because for me the odds are too poor to justify the cost.
As a side note, it has crossed my mind that if I'd instead saved away all the money I've spent on state apps & raffles, I could've bought one of the best of Utah's auction elk tags that was just sold at the Hunt Expo...lol. But of course for gamblers there's no merit in that kind of logic ;-)
Point creep is a beatch. That being said, imo applying in multiple states is worth it. I love seeing new territory, kind of makes me feel like Kit Carson - don't fence me in and all that. Every State, and even different areas within a State, have something new and interesting to experience, and you get to do it with a weapon in your hand and a license to kill. What more could a guy want? Well ok, the occasional meat, but generally I take care of the freezer back home.
