Why no love for Oregon Elk?
Elk
I hunted elk in Eastern OR in 2006, my first elk hunt. It was a tough hunt but I learned a ton and only ran into other hunters occasionally in an OTC unit. I'll be heading back one of these years. Not the best Elk hunting in the country but there are good OTC opportunities if you don't draw somewhere else.
How do the OTC units in MT, ID, and CO compare? I always assumed they were better and that's why OR didn't get as many customers.
I'm not sure what the trespass fees are like for a DIY elk hunt in Eastern OR but the top tier elk units are hard to draw and the LO/outfitter tags are very expensive.
The bull:cow ratio in most of OR is lousy off of the private land. Too many OTC tags. It takes an really big ranch to keep the elk on your property for all of the hunting seasons. Oregon blasts the crap out of their elk herd just like CO.
Because the hunting on the general tags on public dirt sucks ass !!
Trust me i live here....Private ground is a whole different ballgame
Because the hunting on the general tags on public dirt sucks ass !!
Trust me i live here....Private ground is a whole different ballgame
Private land is a whole different ballgame with any quarry
Its like comparing veggies to fruit
Hunt private, say you kill them on public, OTC, and you too can be a Bowsite hero.
Sorry for the double post...a few beers into it this evening;)
Cheering the Presidents? :)
"300+ bulls on DIY "private land" hunts in eastern OR"
pertinent info noted...
Oregon sucks. As I've stated many times on Ifish, Oregon's management objectives for Bull/Cow ratios would get you fired in AZ, UT, and NM. Two years ago the bio for Mt Emily told me every bull over 15/100 in the Wenaha unit was a surplus animal, not needed to maintain the herd levels, and available for harvest.
15/100 bull/cow ratio fellas, for a hunt that takes 20 years to draw. Oh, and the license/tag will run the NR $700.
Eastern Oregon still has some decent units, but big bulls are rare and hunter crowding is usually a problem. Poor range management is a problem in a significant portion of the east side. Often the elk leave the public land and head to the ranches where there a few or no hunters and the forage available is much better. Another difficulty I have observed is that some units allow the hunter to shoot any elk in archery season, so they are very crowded. Some of these units had the best bulls until other units were restricted. Also the Cascades are very poor now that the Forest Service is no longer harvesting timber. The quality feed is gone, the elk are gone and many of the hunters have moved farther east.
No Brad... gonna set a record for rainfall here for the month of Febuary...the rivers are all toast so no steelhead fishing this week when i have few days off !!
Oh ya, my thoughts exactly in comparing OTC to Private Grounds!
ElkNut1
How many points do you have?
A look at the P&Y top 10 tells a story. 0/10 Rocky Mountain Elk from Oregon.
There is a reason WapitiBob and myself are trying to draw tags elsewhere every year.
Maybe ups drivers got it figured out! I am a retired ups driver from central Oregon. Our group over the years have killed some nice bulls in ne . I agree management leaves a lot to be desired but we have lots of otc opportunities. Not tons of elk but there are good bulls to be had. Eagle caps still hold nice bulls. We hunt lesser draw units some years then back to otc. 2004 shot a 323" bull draw then took "new guy" otc the next year and he kills 342". Another buddy I was bragging on says he got a good one also ended up 365". I could show you areas 2 miles from trailhead that hold large elk. Seems most years we can still find 300" bulls we do work very hard. Seems more crowded for sure especially with everyone wanting to do diy but like Elknut1 does we don't go farther we hunt where others dont go.
Now I guide on a ranch outside of Prineville in the Ochoco unit and we have some amazing bulls. In 15 days I saw lots and and lots of 300" to over 350" bulls last fall. Private is another world for sure! Fred
Most public land hunting sucks as mentioned, with few exceptions. Having been fortunate to hunt Colorado and New Mexico public land, central and eastern Oregon public land does not come close.
ODFW is one of the worst if not the worst state run wildlife management in the west. The bull to cow ratio objective that is posted above is just one example.
I used to live in and hunt the coast range of Oregon for Rosies. I killed elk there and would get a lot of action. There were seasons I never saw another hunter and seldom did I see more than 1 or 2. It was private timber land, open to the public in September and walk-in only. Some of the best elk hunting I have experienced. Many hunters would over look it, and head to eastern Oregon. As the hunting declined in eastern Oregon, the number of hunters increased in the coast range.
I would not want to be introducing a young hunter in Oregon.
Oregon's management goals suck.
Out of state license and fees are more than its generally worth. Hunting license, deer and elk tag will put you over 1K.
I grew up there, I'll go back to hunt elk but really its just to see family.
Also, the winter they're having is going to be really hard on their herd so I would hold off on a tag for next year.
Oregon is for Roosevelt Elk.
How many of those top 10 elk were DIY, public land?
Possibly because all the 300+ bulls are on Private Land? Just guessing.
Having hunted Eastern Oregon on several occasions...this is not a surprise.
Most Public Land in Eastern Oregon has too much road access, too many poachers, and too few elk. And any Private Lands next to Wilderness areas seem to hold the Lion's share of elk.
Best of Luck, Jeff
As a resident of Central Oregon and native of Eastern Oregon I agree with most of what has been posted. I have had some magical days hunting in Eastern Oregon but very few over that last 30 years. Having the privilege of hunting elk in MT, ID, NM, NV and WY really puts in perspective how poor OR is. In my opinion we have plenty of elk, but our state manages for hunter opportunity rather than trophy quality. See wapitibobs numbers of bull to cow ratio in our premier units. Most of our units are estimated to have 1500-2500 archery hunters during a 4 week stretch. Compare that to most other states where you will have 25-300 hunters with similar sized units and elk density. Still lots of memories to be made, but fewer days of bulls bugling and acting normal without human interaction.
"How many of those top 10 elk were DIY, public land? "
I don't know but I do know I could sure use an AZ bull tag this year with all of the rain we have been getting. Should be a very good year for antlers!
I think a big part of it is logistics. Obviously, most elk hunters drive from somewhere east of Oregon. So that means they are driving past a lot of elk to get to Oregon.
I considered hunting Oregon at one point several years ago and I did quite a bit of research and made some contacts out there. Once I looked at all the opportunities in other states that I would have to drive through or drive past on the way to Oregon I realized there was no reason to drive so far and drive past so many states to find good hunting.
It would be one thing if what Oregon had to offer made it worth the drive but there doesn't appear to be anything in Oregon to justify driving past Colorado, Montana, Idaho, etc. unless of course you're after Rosies.
Then there's the question of how to pronounce it, is it "Or eh gon" or "Ori gin" ? ;^)
orygun
oreo as in cookie, gun as in 7STW
oree-gun
"How many of those top 10 elk were DIY, public land? " Since most of them are from Arizona, I would guess that most of them were on public land, but not all DIY. Arizona has relatively little private, non-public accessible land.
"How many of those top 10 elk were DIY, public land?" Most of them, I would bet. 7 of the top 10 typical and 6 of the top 10 non-typical listed on the P&Y website are from AZ and with few exceptions, most of those bulls are hunted on public land. Chuck Adams has 2 bulls listed from Montana and I can't remember whether those were public or private. Bottom line is that the big bulls aren't just on private land. Oregon may be a different story, but most of the rest of the western states have plenty of big elk on public land.
I live in Prineville and hunt every year in eastern Oregon. Some years are good, some not so good. The elk are around. I do think it's getting harder at least in the area I have hunted for the past many years.
"My UPS driver has been killing 300+ bulls on DIY private land hunts in eastern OR for years. Other guys I know are taking great bulls there as well. Yet there is very little talk here on eastern OR. Why?"
No brainer of the century...................... 2 1/5% average Joe Hunter NR quota. Matching outfitter welfare quota. Low P&Y harvest numbers. Longer travel distance. Never ending point creep. Yet they still require a $160 NR hostage fee? Ya sounds like a plan. Even HF says it's not worth it. No NR I know even thinks about buyin into that game.
Zim , I bought in as a non resident. 18 years running !
18 years ago I was looking to draw a Bighorn sheep license and the cost of an Oregon hunting license was the buy in.
It was an extra 6$ to add elk or deer or pronghorn. So I sprung for the extra 18$. I guess I was hoping something might change for the better over the course of time. Of course , nothing changed , except I just drew and killed a Bighorn in Wyoming after 20 years.
Now what? I guess I'll continue to apply for a sheep license.... Oregon sheep are pretty decent and sheep are delicious! And I guess I'll spend for the elk points, until I can figure out what to do with them. The old.... in for a penny in for a pound scenario.
Go ahead Pat and reopen my wounds.
So, in summary:
Poor/no management for quality. NR unfriendly with high license/tag cost with very low NR tag allocation. Blue treehuggers outlawed bear over bait hunting and use of hounds for lions (to detriment of deer, elk, and sheep population)
Yup. And a high population within several hours drive. But mostly the management.
"So, in summary:
Poor/no management for quality..."
Orgeon hunters can blame themselves. The quality oriented guys just didn't care enough to make their voices heard. To a large extent, hunters get what they settle for.
Ah Arizona how I love thee! Now if I could just hunt more often than every 7-8 years.....
Oh and I have zero experience hunting Oregon. I've only been there once but driving down the coast I saw multiple herds of Rosies right off the side of the highway! Seemed impressive to me!
There are some quality bulls in Oregon. Just have to wait!
i've got relatives there, but as noted, the high license cost for what I believe is the lowest out of state hunter ratio means out of state hunters suck hind titty in OR, and instate isn't much better. That said, if commie Cali insists on labeling me a criminal if I stay down here, I may end up there before too long. Good mushroom hunting I hear.
Yeah, Oregon has its versions of CO 2/201. Just a few more years and they'll take just as many points to draw too.
I know some very good friends in eastern OR that have taken 300" archery bulls for the last three or four years on public land. They have the area down, dialed in as to traditional travel patterns, etc. Hunt from stands. Killed a couple lions with sharp sticks too, which is even more impressive to me.
I've killed a couple eastern OR bulls in the 70's.... with a rifle. A spike and a decent 6x6 that might have made 300. In all honesty, nobody really scored stuff back then that we knew of. For what it costs me to do a public land hunt on the mainland..... and the states I'm looking at..... I have an OR invitation I'm gonna be cashing in on in the next couple years. OR is doing a much better job of game management the last several years WRT predator management, etc.
That said..... yeah..... private and public in OTC land.... big difference.... Yuge......
Pat maybe theres a hidden gem somewhere in OR. Truth is most of us would have to drive thru some awful good elk country to get there. I already spend 2 days getting too Co., WY. or N.M.
TD... how do you figure Oregon is doing a "much better job" of managing predators?
Residents can pick up tags real easy and relatively cheap I believe as knowing these guys they would not be picking up tags for them as they are both easy and cheap =D....... as I said, they've taken a couple cats from the area and they told me the State had started a test program of taking out more cats in their area to look at the elk and mule deer population and the effects, "recovery" if you will.
My understanding is the state never really had any kind of organized move towards controlling the apex predators of elk and deer.
They still don't have anything in the way of real predator management. They have done some pilot programs where they've selected units and removed some cats but it's not a long term solution. Plus it's been going for a number of years now. The gains are short lived and populations go right back down a few years after they're done removing cats.
Nothing has changed for the better in Oregon as far as management of any big game species.
Oregon waits until they have a problem unit then they hire "professional hunters" to reduce predator numbers. So they pay to do something that they used to get money for. Typical gov't.
Oregon is widely known for the worst management of any western state. That great bull Brad got was out of one of only three units that are managed for trophy animals. All the others are managed for "opportunity". So it takes 14 or more years to draw one of these tags. The mo for all the other units have low bull to cow ratios and overall numbers. I am born and raised here in Oregon. Many problems in this extremely liberal state! There is a reason I apply for tags in several other states!
Professional hunters.....David, I have never understood our state. Unbelievably liberal thinking. SO backwards!!
Hart Mt. is managing for a thriving predator population....those poor ungulate herds, that it was made for BTW, are getting eaten without any checks or balances.
The next step is "reintroducing grizzlies"!!!
I too would like to see changes in big game management here in Oregon, but I sure don't blame ODF&W for the majority of short comings I see. The lack of public land timber harvest has cut down the elk numbers especially in the Cascades. The ranchers hate the elk on the public land east of the Cascades and claim they are eating up too much of the forage that belongs to "them". Of coarse the elk go to the ranch, but you can't hunt there. Those elk are theirs too. The large land management agencies don't want more elk either. The tree huggers want more wolves and cats. Many people want their tax dollars to go for protecting endangered species. The list goes on and on. ODF&W has negotiated management objectives and is limited by them. They are directed to manage for hunting opportunity. Given they are under the Game Commission and legislator, I don't know where they could make significant improvement given all of the constraints they work under. I do think they micro manage too much and would do better to increase the size of their management zones. That is just my perspective.
I have hunted eastern Oregon as a non res for the past 10 years, somewhere around Ukiah. I have had decent success, 5 bulls and have witnessed many more bulls taken, I think if you get to know your area and stick with it you will be successful. Their are alot of nice bulls taken in our area every year. a camp up the street last year had 3 6x6 and 1 5x5 in their camp. I was unsuccessful last year but saw and heard a number of bulls. Their can be a lot of hunters at times, but I seldom see any hunters in the field and I hunt within 1/4 to 1/2 mile of many access roads. so I do know one thing for sure, Oregon resident elk hunters hate California elk hunters, but I have become great friends with many Oregon elk hunters. just my opinion. I will be their again this year.
Here's the real objective skinny on Oregon... I am an OR native lived there for 45 years until 2016. Recently moved to WA for many reasons. I kill a 6 point bull every year in OR. But... as has been stated above, OR does not manage elk hunting like other quality states do. Their bull/cow ratios are ridiculous. Most units are 10/100 and the best trophy units are 15/100. My sucess is based off hunting units that an NR would never consider, but I can hunt unpressured spot and stalk bulls. I hunt elk all over the West. WY, UT, NV, AZ, ID hopefullt NM sometime soon. If I was looking for a rut action elk hunt I would never consider OR. Sure, there are plenty of elk, but rut action is more about high B/C ratios and lack of hunting pressure than anything else. That is not OR. If you want to shoot any elk then maybe it's for you. If you want a quality experience then it's not.
Murders Creek last fall taken with a cell phone.
