Why is archery elk only ~10% success?
Elk
Why does archery elk success rates hover at only 10%?
We have fancy gear, flat shooting bows, electronics that wont quit, internet scouting, data that wont stop, exercise programs specifically for elk hunting, and the rate hardly changes.
And why is that?
Crossbows are a pain in the ass to hump up and down the mountains.
Probably because the same 10% of the hunters shoot 90% of the elk taken....the same hunters are successful year after year no matter what gear they use. The others are generally unsuccessful, no matter what gear they use. Call it hunting experience, skills, etc.
i will agree with kurt, the same 10% get the elk here every year. those that don't, don't really want a elk. they bugle from the truck or four wheeler, hike maybe a half mile, and when a elk doesn't bugle back they give up. also I think there are those that can call and put in the effort but when the moment of truth comes they cave under the pressure and miss, make a bad shot, move when they shouldn't, its a mental melt down.
Because there's a lot about elk hunting that's really hard (they live in tough terrain, competition/pressure from other hunters, Elk are tough, good senses). There's a lot about bowhunting that's really hard (getting in range, fooling an animal's senses, making the shot count when you get it). Put em both together and, voila, you have a 10% success rate.
All of those things you mentioned are tools, and they have become more elaborate and technical no doubt. I can have the most elaborate and technically advanced carpentry tools, but you still wouldn't want me building your house :-)
I think you can draw a parallel for the elk hunter. For the experienced elk hunter, those tools have made them even more efficient, but they were killing elk without all that "stuff", so it doesn't really change the avg success rate.
To the novice, those are simply tools to help shorten the learning curve, but the curve is still there. Perhaps the success rate stays the same because the experienced guys are still killing elk and the novices don't stick around long enough to get into that "10%" group. Just a thought.
It all looks good on Google Earth, you've bought all your high end gear and gadgets, then you go and walk miles and miles and don't hear or see any elk for 3-4 days and you find out what you're made of. I think Iron Mike Tyson said it best "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".
--Mitch
N-Idaho has it imo. So many are hunting where others are, and none of them are getting very far from the truck.
I'm 0-3 hunting archery elk and it has nothing to do with wanting it bad enough. I get into elk no problem and can seem to close in to 50 yards without much of an issue, but I always screw up when it the moment of truth comes. Usually the thermals betray me, but blaming them is only an excuse. The reason I don't get an elk is because I'm not a good enough elk hunter.....yet. Someday I'll get there.
Now, rifle is a bit different. After being unsuccessful with a bow for those 3 years it only took me 10 minutes into my first rifle season to get an elk. That seemed easy. Though the hunt wasn't as rewarding, the full freezer sure is!
Ok, time to put the amateur psychologist hat on. ;-)
People are driven by different things. Work, family, sports, etc. Then there are those that are driven to kill elk. They fine tune their equipment. They learn as much as they can about elk. They learn how and when to call. They learn as much as possible about the country elk live in. They spend as much time as they can with boots on the ground to verify, or dismiss, what they "think" they've learned about elk, and the places they hunt elk. They do everything humanly possible to prepare for the challenge...both physical and mental. Then they arrange their vacation time to make sure they spend as much time hunting elk without risking divorce. Sometimes they risk even that. lol!
These are the ones that make up the 10% Kurt refers to. They are extremely goal oriented, are driven to achieve that goal, and leave no stone unturned.
Similar % success as in business.
Some of that has to do with the time hunters dedicate to getting an elk. I certainly don't mean that as a slam to folks who can only hunt a few days a year, as I am one of those people. If you don't live very far from elk country (easy to run up for the day or for the weekend) and you have a wife, kids, a demanding job, etc. you might just be able to hunt one or two weekends during the season. More time in the field, particularly putting more days in a row will greatly increase your chances for success.
Here is a typical weekend hunt for me: Friday at 5:00 (or 6 or 7 if the office is busy) I get off work, throw my stuff in and get to hunting camp just before dark. Saturday morning, I can start to try to locate elk, and if things go well, I might have figured out where they are by Saturday afternoon. I get to try to put something together Saturday evening and Sunday morning, but by Sunday afternoon I will have to start packing up, because calling in 'sick' on Monday to try to track or pack an elk is greatly frowned upon at most jobs. That means that I will get one or two chances to make a stalk or calling set up in a good weekend. If it takes me more than a day to find the elk, I will probably get no chance to actually kill an elk. If I go again next weekend, the elk will have probably have moved, and I have to start at square one again. If I could set a solid week aside for hunting, my chances of success would be much higher, but I have other priorities in my life right now. All that being said, a couple of days chasing elk is what I consider a successful weekend, whether I get to punch a tag or not.
I think this is part of the reason that most states show much higher success ratios for nonresidents. A NR making plans for an elk hunt is going to plan a week or two to chase elk. Many residents hunt elk when they find a couple of days here or there, particularly in easy-to-draw or OTC areas. That doesn't make them bad people or necessarily poor hunters, it just means that they are putting energy into something else right now.
Or for a simple statistical answer - because those variables you've listed don't have a strong correlation to the success rate - like in a multiple linear regression. There are obviously some variables which haven't been listed that have a much stronger correlation to success rate.
Brad - Thanks for the post, its a thought provoking post no doubt. We concentrate on the wrong variables too often and that's why no matter how much you tweak or improve them, the success rate stays virtually the same.
So what are the variables that move the success rate?
--Mitch
Time, skill, location. With an abundance of any of those, the odds of success go up greatly. A guy that can hunt 20+ days really ups his chances. An experienced elk hunter who can call and shoot great under pressure has a big advantage. An average hunter on a great piece of ground with the opportunity to be in elk multiple times every day has a big advantage.
Most elk hunters don't have an abundance of any of those and many have a severe shortage of at least one.
Is the 10% just Colorado? I think in different states you could do quite a bit better than that, if you can get a tag. Pressure and competition are a variable that is probably hard to account for.
Brad, in the units you hunt (where I used to hunt) the success on the big private ranches is over 25%, which really skews the public land success rate even further downward.
Some people are just better elk hunters than others. There are dozens of factors. I have a friend who is a national-level triathlete and a great bow shot who hunts for 10 days each year on private land in a great elk spot and never kills an elk. Ever.
Another guy who used to hunt out of our camp was a mediocre shot, and his hunting style was mainly to hike up on a ridge, sit on a log beside a trail, smoke a bowl or three and drink a Dr. Pepper, bugle now and then, and kill a bull. At one time he had the #11 CO archery bull. After about 14 bulls in a row he got bored with it moved to Seattle to concentrate on steelhead.
"Is the 10% just Colorado?"
Over the past dozen yrs or so that statistics are available, the success rate has ran about 8% in Wyoming. Glunt's definition narrows it down to the simplest terms...time, location, skill. The less amount you have in any one of those factors can, and will, effect your chance at success. That goes for any given year, as well as long-term.
The areas I elk hunt in show a 6-8% success rate. But Im sure that data is skewed :)
@Old School
You asked what would move the success rate? IMO - I think too many people move around too much. They dont 'learn' the elk areas and others dont move enough. There is a fine line when to move and when not to.
Case and Point - Read the Multiple States Application thread. Many people are just 'chasing'. Looking for the big bull, easy , no pressure, good herd ratio units. When there is good elk hunting in many Gen units [WY] or OTC units [CO] that are often over-looked.
The life of 'instant gratification' does not stop at elk hunting.
it also has to be a burning desire to kill one. many of the elk I have killed happened on windy crappy days when even I wondered why I was out there. the elk hunt goes from the worse day hunting to the best day hunting in a matter of seconds. when I blow my cow call I think a bull is coming in, every time.
I think it would be a great project for a stats class. Determine what the independent variables are going to be, then collect data from a statistically significant number of elk hunters and see the correlation.
I remember doing a similar project years ago when I got my MBA. Did it on what independent variables impact housing prices and how those variables were related. Oh the days on minitab.
--Mitch
A lot of that 90% spend more time in their Truck/ATV/UTV than out of it.
I have DIYed 4 elk hunts and have killed 3 mature bulls and passed on a smallish 6x6 on the unsuccessful hunt. So there goes success rates. I go with 10% to a degree.
If we all hunted poor areas then many of us would probably be humbled.
Wyobullshooter nailed it. Lots of other good points as well.
Brad (Cnelk) ... I've heard you say a lot of profound things -- in camp as well as over a few beers -- but this one is SUBLIME!:
"Many people are just 'chasing'. Looking for the big bull, easy , no pressure, good herd ratio units. When there is good elk hunting in many Gen units [WY] or OTC units [CO] that are often over-looked.
The life of 'instant gratification' does not stop at elk hunting."
So many people are chasing a ghost ... "It must be in AZ" ... thinking that Unit X in State Y is going to give them the "time, skill, location" that Glunt speaks of.
There ARE shortcuts, and the point-game, I suppose, is one of them (if by "short-cut" you mean spending thousands and waiting 20 years).
Excellent post, Cnelk.
The 10% guys all have one thing in common. They all have a very addictive personality. We have to be very careful about what we get into because of it. Good or bad when we go after something it's always all in. Like I said good or bad.
Just because you have drawn that primo tag doesn't mean the elk will somehow magically impale themselves on the end of your arrow......not even in Arizona ;)
You still gotta have some kind of skills.....thats what OTC tags are for practicing. Thats what i don't get with the crowd waiting to draw their once in a lifetime primo tag ??
Get out there and practice in OTC units....practice makes you a hell of a lot better if you just learn from your mistakes.
Another thing to consider is for most guys that hunt a relatively "controlled" whitetail situation most of the time simply don't get practise at the "uncontrolled" shot situation elk hunting offers. The bull shows up out of nowhere and you need to shoot at an undetermined range and maybe quickly.
I guarantee you MANY shots are missed every year at ranges guys would tell you the elk would be dead if they get a chance at that exact range. Fact of the matter is you guess wrong, flinch, rush the shot, whatever.
I agree with Jaquomo.
There might not be a wide variation, but you have to hunt elk like elk need to be hunted in order to have the best odds of success. You can't hunt Coues deer like you hunt elk or elk like you hunt Coues deer. You can't hunt Pronghorn like you hunt Whitetail and visa versa. There's going to be some big crossovers in tactics, but each specie needs to be custom-hunted to have the best odds of success. You can hunt them all the same and have success over time and again, there's a ton of overlap with some species/hunts, but for the best consistent results, each specie needs to be understood from its habitat to its food and bedding, from its movements to its behavior, and even what each specie will let you get away with when you draw back your bow. And on and on.
You can use a wood drill on metal for a while and have marginal success. You can use a pipe wrench in place of a vice grip, but it's not the ideal tool for the job.
Bob Ameen made an interesting comment several weeks back on a thread where I pointed out that Coues deer are widely accepted as a very difficult animal to get an arrow in and he didn't realize I was referring to Coues because he didn't see them so tough because he's got them figured out - which is why he and his wife arrow big Coues deer consistently. Yet, there are people who take several guided trips for Coues and fail to arrow one. You have to know your animal - it's strengths and its weaknesses and its behavior. Then hunt accordingly.
I think a lot of guys hunt elk like whitetail or mule deer. And then also, a lot of guys aren't willing to do what it takes to hunt elk. Between those two things, I think we see the success rates we do, but like Lou said, there's a lot of reasons. Hell, sheep success rates are better than elk success rates. But I think that a lot of guys who have basically no chance in the sheep mountains are still trying for elk.
Honestly, shooting "any elk" is not a difficult thing. But you're asking to get lucky if you're not willing to learn.
I also think there are a lot of guys that simply hunt where there are few, if any elk in the area they are hunting, when they are there. Back in the early 80s, a buddy and I hunted a few areas that were recommended to us by guys that killed elk in these areas during rifle season. We were very green and had no clue what we were doing and these areas held very few elk and little fresh sign when we were in there during archery season. We finally found an area that had quite a few elk when we were there, and we were consistently successful in this area. Even if you are hunting in an area that has elk, you still have to close the deal at the moment of truth, but your chances of success are WAY better if there are elk there to have chances at!
Wyobullshooter, that surprises me. I would have bet Wyoming success rates were significantly better than that. Not doubting you, just surprised.
I do agree that time, location and skill make a huge difference. Driving out west to hunt for a week is kind of setting yourself up for failure. Unless you are already familiar with a good area, and know what the elk do there.
Even then there is always the chance the elk just aren't there for one reason or another. Now you have to go find some. If that takes 3 or 4 days, you don't have much time to make something happen.
Then there is the dumb luck factor. Last year I hunted hard for two weeks. Saw elk, but no shots. One day I took a nap about ten a.m. A breaking branch woke me up, quickly followed by pounding hooves. Next thing I know I've got a bull at ten feet.
Didn't get him either. A bow isn't much of a weapon if you aren't holding on to it.
I'm still learning and think my percentage will improve with experience.
To me it all comes down to HOW bad do you want it! Hunt!
And they don't all live in the dam trees ;)
Not sure why my post didn't take, but I have a feature coming in the June DIY issue of Bowhunter on this very topic. Its a primer for whitetail guys coming to hunt elk, but also applies to those who've hunted and struggled. OTCwill and cnelk provided some gems of advice from the perspective of former whitetail guys turned elk slayers.
I've been playing the game quite a while and have made plenty of mistakes. I tried to learn from them all. Now, 25 years later, I understand elk tendencies and country pretty well. I know when I can probably be aggressive. I know when I should probably be patient. I practice with my bow until a 3 inch group at 70 yards is achievable most days on the range. I figure that would still be a killing group under field conditions most days, though my longest shot so far was 55 yards. I get in the best shape I can. If I'm not familiar with an area, I scout as much as I can. I spent two long weekends in the Gila two falls ago when I didn't have a tag just to learn the country. I backpacked in and covered plenty of ground, including walking around in the dark listening to them talk. This past fall, I killed my bull on the second day in a location that looked like a hot spot the fall prior. In states I know well, I still explore a little. I tend to pack a few miles into promising areas and spend a couple days there. If it isn't working out, I pack out and relocate. My favorite areas all have 3 or 4 spots that have done well for me, but you never know what you'll find until you get there. I spend a lot of time glassing and not much time calling. I'm generally targeting herd bulls these days and stalking and/or ambushing is a much better bet in my experience. I always take at least a week and usually two weeks off to hunt. As mentioned above, it can take a while before things work out. My record the past 15 years or so is pretty good: 3/4 in Montana, 4/4 in Wyoming, 1/1 in New Mexico. All unguided, public land, DIY, mostly 6x6 or better. I did strike out a couple times on weekend hunts in OTC areas of Utah. That's some tough sledding there. I could probably kill a bull there, but I knew the odds were poor and used my time off in states with better possibilities. Get out there and learn. It's the most fun a fella can have legally - imho.
One thing that can't be downplayed is how important physical conditioning is to elk hunting success. Every year, we run into hunters who are, by their own admission, in camp or in their vehicles, during prime hunting hours, when they should be out hunting. While physical conditioning is often not a factor when whitetail hunting the Midwest, it can be the single most important factor on a mountain hunt. First timers often don't realize this. I know I did not when I first moved here.
I am by no means an expert and I owe so much of the little I do know about elk country to those that have posted on this site over the years. No doubt my learning curve has been shortened by that. Here are some of my observations nonetheless:
Some are just there to get away from their everyday life (if in the end, if I am statistically judged a crappy elk hunter, this is my cop-out).
Some miss their wives/kids and can't hack it. There is indeed more to life than killing a stinky primordial beast. I get this one too.
Some are just there to ride their quads.
Some are just on a fancy backpacking/camping trip with the coolest new gear in a government-designated wilderness.
Some (actually a lot people, my guess is this is far and away #1 reason) lack basic woodsmanship.
Some are overwhelmed by the magnitude of Western terrain.
Some get too caught up in where elk were, not where they will be.
Some can't hack the terrain, even after crossfitting all summer.
That's just the beginning, cherry picking some of the 90%'s issues I've observed...
Notice what's not on that list are things like unit selection, calling sequences, premium gear, and a number of other oft-discussed topics on the world wide web of lies. The one commonality I've noticed among elk killers is they JUST GO HUNT. Until they get it done. Until their bodies, wives, jobs, families, and spirit cannot take it anymore. They don't whine and moan about not drawing tags or point creep, they just go hunt. They don't endlessly debate the best cool new gear selections, they take what they have and go hunt. They don't ask for handouts, they study maps, pick a place, and go hunt with conviction. They don't get frustrated when the elk don't follow a calling playbook, they go hunt. They don't work out religiously like the goal is climbing Everest in a day, they just go hunt.
Whew, that was intense, hand me another beer. Short answer is, it honestly seems to me that you have it or you don't.
I agree with a lot of the above...time, skill, putting yourself in a place of opportunity and staying positive to the bitter end. I've been standing next to some rookies as the shot opportunity develops and good lord they completely come unglued. I know I was there too at one point and it's truly the high we all love but learning to control your anxiety at crunch time will fill more tags. The best way to do that is OTC hunt every year you can.
elk country is big! elk aren't behind every tree!
Novemberforever, just curious - how .many P&Y bulls have you killed in CO OTC hunting solo?
You've got to want it and as some have said you have to have an obsessive personality to be successful - it makes you sweat the details! I'm mainly a whitetail guy but love to elk hunt - I just don't live in elk country and only get to go about once every 5 years! When I do get to go I am in as serious of shape as I can get and will literally save my vacation so I can hunt the whole season (time is key). When you can actually hunt and aren't fretting about what's going on at work, or what's getting neglected at the house you will be much more focused! The amount of map recon is ridiculous as well. I will know the area like the back of my hand before ever laying eyes on the area. I'm 3 for 4 on diy hunts and would be 4/4 if I hadn't blown a shot on a big old bull (bit of elk fever). All 6 x's as well and all will easily make Pny.
Don't be afraid to use your deer skills on them. My first elk trip I was struggling mightily trying to do it like I'd seen on all the shows - bugling, cow calling, etc. Day 12 I find an oak motte throwing acorns like crazy and crawled up a tree - arrowed a good bull a couple hours later and put my dad in the same tree the next eve and he killed an even better one! If we hadn't adjusted I'm sure we'd have eaten tag soup on that trip.
I can't call worth a crap but I'm pretty sneaky and keep my mouth shut and just trail them til they screw up. Shot my second bull at 8 yards right after he bugled in my face. He was rubbing and a cow he had hemmed up snuck away from him while he was preoccupied. I snuck in between him and his cow knowing he'd get frantic when he realized he'd lost her. He walked right into my lap screaming his head off! Got really rattled that time. That was my most exciting hunt. I still get goose bumps thinking about it!
Never, ever give up! Shot my bull this year literally the last 15 minutes of a 14 day hunt. Heard him bugle in high winds and slipped right in on him with the aid of the wind - don't think he ever knew what hit him. Key was that I was still out there hunting rather than throwing in the towel - which would have been easy to do. Definitely milked that hunt!
Keep a positive attitude - it gets tough sleeping on the ground for 14 days, eating freeze dried meals and taking spit baths but you can't kill them sitting in camp - leave before daylight and come back after dark. After all - you're there to hunt!
Lee
...and sometimes you can do all the right things in the world and the elk don't cooperate.
And the only thing guaranteed by hiking seven miles in is that you've hiked seven miles in.
November, I know all about it, but you're wrong about most of CO being 400 yards from a 2-track - I've hunted CO OTC for 42 years. Wilderness areas and huge roadless NF all over the state. Sounds to me like you're buying big bulls in unpressured areas where they are managed for trophy quality. Good for you, if that's what you're into. Most guys posting on here are doing it a different way, which is why they are asking the questions.
Interesting that you can be such an expert on hunting a state that you've never hunted.
And there we have it....rutting elk are like shooting fish in a barrel !
TBM has been reincarnated! Glad to have you back with us, Steve... err... "B from Wisconsin".
I'm taking notes. All these years hunting OTC public it never crossed my mind that it might not be as hard to kill elk if I just drew or bought a great tag. I did try the 7 miles off the road thing. About 6.5 miles in, I stopped and chatted with some guys coming in from the opposite direction who were also going in about 7 miles. They said they had only gone about 1/2 a mile so far. Aside from not being smart enough to just hunt elk with a great tag, I also stink at math. It took me a 1/2 mile process our conversation which was right about when I got to their truck.
I'm thinkin I'll just get one if those great tags this year and knock over a big one. I expect it will be easy.
Ditto elk yinzer on the following three points:
"Some (actually a lot people, my guess is this is far and away #1 reason) lack basic woodsmanship."
"Some are overwhelmed by the magnitude of Western terrain."
"Some get too caught up in where elk were, not where they will be."
Its not been too easy for me. I have had my opportunities but did some stupid stuff like most new elk hunters do. To be honest, I don't want it easy. If I wanted to hunt the easy way I wouldn't be bowhunting. I think any animal we gain confidence and experience with gets much easier over time. You know what worked in the past so you stick with it.
x2 Novermberd-bag. Yes, it's just too easy! Can't believe all these guys think it's hard!
There are about 1 million elk in NA. There are about 30 million deer. The average for most states for bowhunters filling their deer tag is between 15%-20%.
Bowhunting is hard.
If I were to guess why 90% are unsuccessful:
30% Pass up good opportunities at lesser elk like cows, spikes and yearlings. 30% In poor shape and can't make it up and down the mountain. 30% Hunt elk-poor areas. 10% Other (Poor shooting, bad weather, etc.)
There are a lot of things you can do to increase that percentage you just need to be honest with yourself.
Jaquomo: I was thinking the same thing just as you posted it! So funny! Yeah, elk are so easy to kill with a bow that I arrange ahead of time for a packer to bring horses at noon on opening day so he can haul out my P&Y bull while the meat's still warm!
How many of the 10% that kill elk every year spend more than a week hunting or get to scout their hunting spot all summer? I think those are the main reasons a select group is more successful than others. I average about 4 maybe 5 days a year elk hunting and kill an elk about every 2 to 3 years Or how many people have a kill shot but pass it up for a bigger animal and never get another chance (I have done this more than once) I won't shoot a rag horn or spike.
Not enough $$ to hire the best outfitters and hunt on best private lands? :)
I'm getting tired of it being so easy....last September I spent 13 straight days in unit 45 Wyoming, hunted my tail off every day, went from 175 lbs down to 160, didn't draw my bow. Came home and hunted Colo the last two weeks and didn't draw my bow. I did let a couple young bulls walk in Co but the point is to be successful consistently you have to make an extraordinary effort. The best elk hunters I know...the Thrashers for example, go so deep, 98 pct of us wouldn't go there. But every single year they kill 300" plus bulls on otc, public land.
For me, one of the 90%, it's simple. You guys in the 10% never invite me along. ;^D
All you need to do is buy the CO Unit 2 landowner tag every year (only 10K). You'll have great bugling action and can kill a 300+ bull pretty easily if you're any sort of hunter, can shoot straight, and don't get greedy.
Pretty easy, really. No need to overcomplicate it. Can't believe I've sold so many articles about bowhunting elk, Matt Dworak wrote a whole book about it, and it can be summed-up with those two sentences.
X2 Jaq, location, location, and location!
Yep. Location. Location. Location.
Here is a spot 1/2 mile from my truck, OTC public land Colorado.
Who is gonna take a shot for the 10% club?
I think a lot of it boils down to TIME. Us easterners come out for a week to hunt elk and often times 5-7 days is just not enough time to make it happen.
For easterners I believe that you should plan on 2 weeks min. in the mountains hunting with plans A, B, C, and D laid out unless you have the time available to get out west in the summer and scout the areas. Sure a lot can be done with the internet, phone calls, maps, etc., but for me boots on the ground and seeing the country speaks the loudest.
Funny, I look at these posts as subliminal "I'm a great elk hunter" why aren't you.
Alot of egos on the elk forum these days. If people only knew the half of it.
Agree with Ghostbird, I feel time is personally my biggest obstacle as an Easterner. Even for the best elk hunters, a week is tight. Within that week, weather is hit or miss. A couple bad days, blown setups, add an appearance or two from Murphy, and your hunt is in the rearview. Still, for a lot of us a week is all we can swing with family, work, and the travel factored in, and that week in the elk woods is still my favorite week of the year, kill or no. Like I said before, there’s more to life than slaying these stinky primordial beasts. I've returned from two elk hunts with nothing but close calls, and I didn't starve either winter. Give me 2 or 3 weeks in the woods which is about how much I archery hunt deer at home during a good year, and I’m more than confident I could join the 10% and then some.
Maybe the #1 reason success rates for bowhunters is so low is because we don't have enough time to hunt.
Maybe it's time employers and spouses start to realize that if you are a hunter you should get off for the fall - you know, like maternity or paternity. We would call it Bowternity leave.
"Alot of egos on the elk forum these days. If people only knew the half of it".
X2 Cazador. If elk hunting doesn't humble you at some point...you've got issues.
Best of Luck, Jeff
I do not believe in the super animal. I do not proclaim to be the world's greatest hunter but I have been successfull on most hunts regardless of species. Even the coveted coues deer. I agree with longer hunts buts most guides would go broke if they could not produce in a week long hunt. Every location has individual challenges. Killing a 100 inch coues, 350 bull, or 150 class are all incredibly hard if that number represents 1% percent of the population or does even exist.
Many people are not shooting any elk so the success would go up. Same with only hunting premium areas or having a minimum number of days and experience level.
We have some young hunters that are are extremely successful on all hunted species so I would not say experience on animal is the exponential factor. I think a formula for success is the outlier. RESEARCH of animal and premium locations, intimate knowledge of equipment, length of hunt, and physical and mental fitness. Another outlier is re$ource$.
If it was easy everyone would do it.
Location Location Location
1. Resident hunters success is probably greater than Non-resident. It takes nr longer to find elk, usually multiple seasons, if they don't quit first. Non-residents spend their week of hunting in areas with few elk while residents put themselves in better spots from the start. This is probably a generalization but if I was 2 hour drive from the elk wood, I would be scouting at every opportunity. When your are 13-24 hours away, not as much scouting gets done except from a computer screen.
2. From reading posts here, a good number of hunters wait until they draw the prime bull tag before hitting a unit. Some of us non-res will cow hunt the same unit every year so when we get the primo tag we know where to go. Two of my last three cows were shot in locations that never would have perked interest on some computer scouting method.
If success rates were 60%, getting a tag would be the first giant obstacle an elk hunter would face.
If a big unit has 100 elk to be harvested in the management plan (pretend its archery only), that means 1000 guys get to hunt elk at a 10% success rate. If we have a 60% success rate, 834 of those guys sit the season out. Not to mention that the tags would need to cost 6X more to generate the same license revenue.
90%ers deserve a cold beverage. Whether they hunt tough areas (check), blow a set up by moving or guessing the wind wrong (check), miss a shot due to excitement (check), waited until August 1st to start getting in shape (check), were too busy with work and family to hunt much (check), or passed up some shots because they were after something else (check), guys who end the season with an unfilled tag rule. If it sounds like I'm justifying my current dry spell, you may be on to something :^)
I've always had to work 10 times harder than anyone else to get something I really want. I don't have much for natural hunting ability but I have tons of desire and a willingness to learn. I enjoy the learning process, the adventure, the physical challenge as much, if not more than, the actual success of killing itself.
There are some great guys on this site you can learn a ton from just by reading their posts and I've had the pleasure of spending some time talking or actually hunting with some of them. Looking forward to getting some elk tutoring from a couple of them in September this year and hopefully a mule deer hunt with another in late Oct/early Nov if I draw the tag. Going to be a blast!
I forgot to mention - an understanding wife! That is no joke - she is fine with me being all in when I finally get to go. It is infrequent enough for me (about every 5 years) that it's not a big deal for me to be gone 1/2 of September - I suspect if I went every year things might be different! One last thing - took my 14 year old daughter on a muzzleloader hunt after Thanksgiving - she shot a beautiful 6x7 and we made some great memories for sure. Only thing was we weren't hunting the rut! I knew it going in but not having done it before it was a completely different experience - truthfully a much harder hunt and not nearly as fun because there was no bugling. I don't think we will do that again - if they aren't bugling I may as well be hunting deer. Something to consider when planning a trip.
Lee
Lee
Easy answer. They give guys like me tags to keep the percentage low!
One reason that the success is only 10% is that a lot of hunters do not keep up with the harvest/success data which can surely change every few years. Example. An area I hunted in Colorado with good success (55% success) during the 1990s with an average of overall 15% success as now been report to have less than 6% success and a couple of years ago, 3%.
At first glance, the area has everything an elk hunter looks for and that was surely the situation 15-20 years ago and thus, the area's reputation has hung on for many years. Yes years ago, fair access, good population of elk, less hunters, good habitat.
So here we are today. The access is the same but more hunters have learned to "pack in and stay". Elk population has been cut in half ( CWD and rancher complaints). More hunters, and reported and two years ago 1200 bow hunters claimed to have hunted the area with less than 6% success. Habitat? Pine bark beetle has killed off 90% of the trees and while more grass,-- less shade and bedding areas. But the hunter numbers keep rising and the success rate keeps going down.
Why 10% (or less) Old habits are hard to break. my best, Paul
drive 1,000 miles to a place you've not been in years or never, hunting animals you have rarely if ever hunted, in mountain terrain most don't live in .... you pick a spot and you don't even know if there are many elk even around there
and you got 7-10 days to figure it all out and get within 30 yards
it aint easy
Caz, not sure if your comment was directed at me, but I wasn't trying to sound like a better elk hunter than anyone else. I have been fortunate to be part of the 10% most of the time. Was only pointing out the things that have worked for me. Each person has their methods, for example where you spend the night. Some hunt from the truck. Some from a pack. Some from a lodge. A lot of it depends on their personality and resources, I reckon. I think you'll see some common trends, at least from the guys that do it themselves on public land: physical conditioning, determination, time off, skill with a bow, experience, etc.
Why only 10%? . . . because for every killer on bowsite, there's 1000 hunters (or way way more) that can't shoot, can't hike, whatever. We all know someone who can't bowkill a little doe on Midwest ground where there's 50 of 'em per square mile :)
Some guys are just better at it. Let's face it. I'm like Midwest, in that I don't feel I have any innate hunting ability. I'm a terrible stalker. I try to go way too fast. What little success I have is generally just through pure persistence. Cause I'm also lazy :)
I thought I had elk figured out. First 3 elk hunts, I killed 3 bulls. The biggest was 280ish.
The last 3 elk hunts I've been on have humbled me. I lost an elk. I missed a B&C class bull. I sat water, and watched them up high. I hunted high and watched them water down low. In short, nothing I did worked. And I worked at it. I spent 15 days in WY in 2015 and missed the B&C bull. I spent 13 days in Nevada last year and lost a bull on day 11.
Like Van Wilder I'm still waiting on my "dare to be great" situation :) Still waiting on my big bull . . . I have a real hankering for a big old mature herd type bull. Maybe this will be my year . . .
Bake
Cnelk I will shoot. Just need cords. Haha
I am in the 90%. Hopefully that will change this year.
Why only 10% you ask?
Simple, because with all the equipment, you still have to hunt them. And the Elk usually have different ideas than the hunter.
Cnelk - I assume you mean OTC units, where lack of opportunity is a much bigger issue than draw units. I think lack of success in OTC units varies from lack of success in Draw units. However, the success rates simply reinforce the fact that bowkilling an elk is hard! I'm 100% kill in draw units (1) in WY and 40% on Colorado OTC (2 out of 5 yrs). Like Bate, I thought I had it figured out as I went 2 for 3 out of the gate in OTC. The last two years have been discouraging. The odds are not in anyone's favor in OTC ! If you are in the 50% crowd or better in OTC , my hat is off to you, I feel you are a master Elk Whisperer! The reasons for lack of success - thick forests, fickle wind, fewer elk, lack of experience is a big one.(a lot of inexperienced hunters - myself included - in OTC units).
OK, in my math Bake could be 5 for 6 or slightly over 80%. Great job!
I agree Colorado OTC is much harder than most draw units.
X2 with Bake many sub par hunters are part of the equation.
it's a whole bunch of things. Like fishing, until you get a bite the fishing sucks, or you're using the wrong lure, the wrong presentation, the wrong time of day/year, etc. Success begets success. In general, I don't tag until I'm whittled down to the mental sinews and it's mostly desire that keeps me going. I don't live in an elk state (well, not elk I'll ever be able to hunt). HUGE advantage to those who do, and get to scout. No pressure, find the freaking animals before they go into ghost mode. And the country doesn't have you half beat before you really get started. Google earth doesn't begin to capture the scale of a mountain wall staring you in the face and taunting 'come and get it'. The high mountains of the west take the full measure of most men. There aren't that many elk. Compared to deer, only a fraction of the population, particularly considering the challenge of being able to hunt where they live. We've all groaned at the big herd sitting safely on the wrong side of a fence. I've driven down rural roads in Montana and didn't even need a GPS to tell me where the private property began and ended - the elk did it for me. Let's face it, a lot of times a bow elk stalk begins where the rifle hunt stops. That nice easy rifle shot distance is where the effort and heartache commences for most bowhunters on most attempts. It's why States let bowhunters hunt elk when (theoretically) the animals are yelling "yoohoo" to the ladies and even occasionally coming in the "yea I'm looking at you" hunter call. To kill an elk you have to get inside the proximity-to-danger heightened alertness zone where elk have been (mostly) successfully evading predators for time immemorial. You don't hear about solo wolves taking down an elk - they do it with a whole pack by exhaustion. They live it, we just visit it once a year if we're lucky. Even if you do everything right and the hunt gods are smiling, that arrow has to do its job just right, and an animal that can soak up rifle bullets never to be seen again can do it with an arrow far more easily. I don't want to speak for others about animals stuck but never recovered, but it definitely happens. Finally, if we were content with and allowed to shoot women and children, the success rate would go up. Or raghorns vs. bigdogs. So there is some first-day/last-day tag soup angst, sometimes especially when we're (finally) hunting a seemingly good or great district. I'm not even going to get into the cameras saving more elk discussion, because hunting as an exhibition is alien to me. Bottom line, you don't truly appreciate success until you've known failure, and we mostly REALLY appreciate success. Hope y'all are the lucky 10%.
You hear that Blane? You're now "Bate."
Didn't Pat go on 13 or 14 hunts (or something like that) before he killed one?? I'd love to hear what he thinks about elk hunting success compared to other species he's hunted.
Someone had to bring it up. What about that Pat?
Not sure how states like Montana can have a clue how many elk hunters actually harvest when they don't follow up on what hunters take . I hunted there two of the last 3 years taking one bull and messing up a shot at another , and not a single request on my success . I also hunt Idaho and they demand a harvest report filled out and filed before you can purchase another tag . I really don't take a lot of stock in certain states harvest reports.
Hwy 110 and Pruess Rd. Go fvck yourself.
I have a somewhat different take on it. I live in Michigan and have never had a problem killing whitetails. I love to tell this story from when I was in college. My mom asked me to shoot a needy family a deer so we could process it for them. I grabbed my bow, and threw on a faded out carhart jacket. 10 minutes after leaving the yard I was on my first pass threw the corn field I shot a spike buck right in the neck while he was eating corn on the cob. It was mid afternoon. I came back to get the gator and asked my mom if she wanted to come with to get the deer. She said that didn't take long. I all honesty I could kill a deer any day of the season because I know their patterns. They have been the same for the 30+ years I have been hunting.
I think a lot of the elk killers that are constantly killing elk know the patters either due to living near their hunting area or knowing it real well.
I don't go seven miles into the wilderness. And most guys that do still don't kill bulls. Why? It's simple. Most guys don't know or when to call. Elk ain't as stupid as some say, and once in close, don't know what it takes to make that bull commit the last 20 or 40 yards. Yessir, a few get lucky and suck a raghorn in, kill it and are instant internet experts. Seen and heard way too many guys calling to wonder who or what would ever respond!! Just cause you're seven miles into the wilderness, shoot the lastest equipment, if you don't know what to say, when to say it, you're not sucking those bulls in.
Last fall, a lot of bulls were killed down here with guys having to take 60+ yard shots. It was a tough season, bulls were acting weird, and lots of guys learned to hunt hay fields and kill bulls. Those that couldn't shoot that range didn't kill elk...
Holding out for 300 pt. plus bulls has certainly hurt my success percentage, that really is the main reason.
Actually more like 7%. And if you removed private land hunters, guided hunters and draw tags I can't imagine that it would be more than 2 to 4%. As far as why? It's a pure result of where public land Elk live, and the intestinal fortitude of the modern hunter.
+1 ELKMAN. For most areas that aren't premium draw tags, absolutely.
0 for 4 on my elk hunting success (three bow and one ML trip). That said it's self induced. Three of the four trips I had opportunities and either didn't take them or choked and missed (with the ML). I'm going out again in November during CO's third rifle season. We'll see how it goes this time..... LOL
My guess if you were to take out first time elk hunters and a lot of out of staters that only have a very limited time to hunt the odds are much higher.
I am not a successful elk hunter, I’ve tried for many years in Utah and continue to strike out. However, I know I don’t give it all I got. I’ve largely followed what others have told me to do and I need to start branching out on my own and putting in the work.
I suspect the basic characteristics of success in elk hunting is the same as it is in other areas of life…everyone has the will to win in the moment (ego, excitement, etc), but the truly successful have the will to prepare to win well before the moment of truth arrives. Sure there are outliers like the guy who seems to just stumble into it year after year but generally speaking the guys who are willing to pay the boot leather, attend hunting conferences, expand their knowledge, and hone their skills to the point of muscle memory are going to move into that top 10% that puts antler on the ground every year. A high res GPS, $3K Swarovski’s and the newest carbon bow ain’t gonna fill your tag if you’re sitting in camp emptying the ice chest most days (which I’ve been known to do from time to time). Set the one-off’s aside, generally speaking the harder you work the luckier you get. In a nation where obesity is becoming the norm, I don’t find 10% that shocking…(IMHO)
We’ve been driving from the east coast to Colorado for 10 years. A couple of times packed horses back 12 miles into a wilderness area. We hunt hard for 13 days typically logging 5 or six miles each day. We hunt for antlers the first week, then either sex. Can’t tell you how many cows were passed up the first week that disappeared the second. I’ve had a cow broadside at 12 yards but held out for the 320 bull at 30 yards behind some trees, only to watch the whole herd charge off when the wind changed. With a ML I could have a good share of respectable bulls, but the challenge is doing it my way on their terms. I’m sure others hunt harder than this old man, and in more productive areas, but in my opinion, my success ratio is 100% even though I’ve only taken one cow in those ten years.
I think many have nailed down most of the reasons. One other reason is elkless country. What I mean is when you look at a mountain range there is a lot of country where there are no elk. Doesn't mean they weren't there last week or they won't be there next week, but elk are not evenly dispersed on a mountain. The guys who know those pockets where they go when they are pursued are the successful ones.
JH- I would say that it really wouldn't have much effect on the odds to be honest. Most states only allocate 10% or less of their total permits or overall hunting to non residents with a few exceptions, but you don't see really any significant difference between the two different strategies success odds percentages.
