3Rivers Archery Supply
Texas, feral hog apocalypse
Hogs
Contributors to this thread:
Zbone 22-Feb-17
PECO 22-Feb-17
Bake 22-Feb-17
wytex 22-Feb-17
EmbryOklahoma 22-Feb-17
wildwilderness 22-Feb-17
SDHNTR(home) 22-Feb-17
Fuzzy 22-Feb-17
Ace 22-Feb-17
EmbryOklahoma 22-Feb-17
JacobNisley 22-Feb-17
LINK 22-Feb-17
petedrummond 22-Feb-17
drycreek 22-Feb-17
coelker 22-Feb-17
LINK 22-Feb-17
rgb 22-Feb-17
Brotsky 22-Feb-17
drycreek 22-Feb-17
timex 22-Feb-17
LINK 23-Feb-17
JacobNisley 23-Feb-17
HighLife 23-Feb-17
Ollie 23-Feb-17
wytex 23-Feb-17
Owl 23-Feb-17
petedrummond 23-Feb-17
wytex 23-Feb-17
APauls 23-Feb-17
Rut Nut 23-Feb-17
wytex 23-Feb-17
Bake 23-Feb-17
txhunter58 23-Feb-17
Bullshooter 23-Feb-17
ben yehuda 23-Feb-17
bigswivle 23-Feb-17
Bullshooter 23-Feb-17
Bowriter 23-Feb-17
kellyharris 23-Feb-17
drycreek 23-Feb-17
Fuzzy 23-Feb-17
LKH 23-Feb-17
drycreek 23-Feb-17
Heat 23-Feb-17
txhunter58 24-Feb-17
wytex 24-Feb-17
Bullshooter 24-Feb-17
willliamtell 24-Feb-17
arbe25 24-Feb-17
Bushwacker 24-Feb-17
txhunter58 24-Feb-17
drycreek 24-Feb-17
txhunter58 24-Feb-17
killinstuff 25-Feb-17
killinstuff 25-Feb-17
txhunter58 25-Feb-17
killinstuff 25-Feb-17
petedrummond 25-Feb-17
drycreek 25-Feb-17
petedrummond 25-Feb-17
txhunter58 25-Feb-17
huntskifishcook 25-Feb-17
From: Zbone
22-Feb-17

Zbone's Link
This doesn't make sense to me, neither does land owners complaining, yet charge to hunt them... If they're that much nuisance, let hunters kill them for free....

"Fearing "feral hog apocalypse," Texas approves drastic measures"

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fearing-feral-hog-apocalypse-texas-approves-drastic-measures/ar-AAnbswK?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

From: PECO
22-Feb-17
I agree. I would love to go get a few for the freezer. However, I'm not paying trespass fees or trophy fees. I surely not mounting one.

From: Bake
22-Feb-17
The problem is pressure. Missouri recently banned feral hog hunting on public land. The reasoning was that the extra pressure then makes the hogs harder to trap.

Missouri isn't trying to "control" their numbers, they want to ELIMINATE them entirely.

Anyways. . . I ain't in Texas and I don't pay taxes there. Really none of my business what Texas wants to do with their ferals . . .

From: wytex
22-Feb-17
Liability keeps landowners from just turning people loose. If you would get it out and knock on doors or get to know someone with a hog problem then you could find hunting for free. Too many complain about fees for hog hunting. Lots of very reasonable fees for hunting them . Stands and damage repair from hogs all have costs. Why is it so bad that landowners are trying to recoup some of their costs. Hunting private land is a privilege not a right. Once you get to know some ranchers and farmers access is not hard to find for free.

22-Feb-17
Wytex... your last sentence is key, and a good point. I've had people ask to come hunt pigs in SE Oklahoma on our place. The "getting to know" (me), is just it. I'm not going to let just anyone come down and run amuck chasing pigs. If I know you, it's an easier avenue. For me and most others, it takes time away from my work or other obligations. Also, money involved in fuel and such because I live close to 2 hrs away.

If you want free, hunt public land.

22-Feb-17
There is no way to "sport" hunt feral swine to extinction let alone control their numbers. Of course hunters are opposed since that will take away their hunting opportunity, and they usually don't care about the land unless they own it.

Most everywhere "sport" hunting has been allowed the feral pig problem gets worse due to illegal transportation of pigs to establish a huntable populations especially on public lands. Though I like hunting pigs, I know the only viable option to eradicate them from areas need to involve drastic measures like poison..... the same goes for coyotes.

From: SDHNTR(home)
22-Feb-17
I've hunted at least 10 different ranches from one end of the state to the other. Sure, I've hunted ranches with hogs, and without hogs, even shot my fair share, but I've certainly NEVER seen a ranch that was so overrun with them that they presented a serious problem. Most landowners I've ever encountered are actually glad to have a few hogs roaming around. Makes for some off season income. The article is just typical media sensationalism if you ask me.

From: Fuzzy
22-Feb-17
why not charge a bit to recoup the losses from hunter damages?

From: Ace
22-Feb-17
So you can't control the numbers of hogs by hunting them. Can you control them by other means? Are there any examples of successful efforts to eradicate or seriously diminish populations of hogs once they are established?

NY used to allow hunters to shoot them, then they made it illegal to shoot them, and they told hunters to report them so the DEC could trap them. Reports of sighting went way down (shocking I know). I'm sure some state employees are beating their chests thinking they reduced the numbers. In a war against mother nature, public servants have a bad won-loss record.

(Edit: I completely understand why landowners don't just allow random/ free access to their property by people with weapons, I wouldn't. Is it known if these chemicals are toxic to humans or other animals?)

22-Feb-17
Ace... the two most effective means that I know of for removing hogs, temporarily, is by trapping and the use of dogs. I have some friends that use camera surveillance and the use of a remote trap door. This can get an entire "sounder" of hogs in it and they can be taken care of. Their last effort was a farm south of OKC and they caught 23 in one swoop.

Complete eradication? I don't know if there is a method. Especially in the vast wooded creek bottoms of SE Ok.

From: JacobNisley
22-Feb-17
Yeah I don't quite get it either. If they are costing a landowner thousands of dollars a year in damages you would think it would be worth the hassle to arrange for hunter access (maybe a certain number, or a sign-in system, or something similar) at no cost because each hog killed results in x amount of dollars saved. It just feels a little hollow to say that hogs are destroying your property then wanting to charge someone who would do you a service. Unless of course you do the math and don't think that your hassle is worth the number of hogs killed by non-local hunters.

From: LINK
22-Feb-17
Jacob they breed faster than you can kill them. A sow can have around 30 piglets a year(2.5 litters/ year@12 piglets/ litter). Guilts from her first litter will also raise one litter and be ready to breed again in that same year span of the initial sow. Casual hunting doesn't have a thing on the reproductive cycle of a pig. Bounty hunting, might slow their reproduction.

Landowners are more likely to see financial relief from hog damage by charging hunters than to actually hope hunters would reduce hogs/damage.

From: petedrummond
22-Feb-17
The fact is pigs are a lot harder to hunt than people let on particularly large trophy boars. Smarter and better noses than deer. Lot of media hype. Thats why quality hunts at places like fair chase go for $500 a day with one hog a day limit. Diy hog hunts are not a reality for multiple reasons unless you just like tag soup.

From: drycreek
22-Feb-17
Let me see if I can shed a little light on this. As a hunter and landowner, ( I own two places, 80 ac. where I live and 217 at another spot ), I detest the bastards. I do not eat them, because they carry diseases and will literally eat anything, even carrion. They don't do extensive monetary damage to either of my places, but are a major pain in the ass with the bomb crater rootings where I drive and mow. They chase deer out of food plots just by showing up. I've seen this in person many times. Deer don't like anything except other deer, and they don't like other deer family groups very much. They will not abide hogs in their vicinity. I had to fence five acres where I live to keep them from destroying my yard. I've seen many yards along the highways totally rooted up overnight. In fact, I saw one yard bottom plowed two nights in a row. You can imagine that guys feelings when he worked on the yard all day just to see it turned over the next morning. Chain link fence went up that week !

That's why I hate them, now here is why I don't open my gates to anyone who wants to hunt. People I don't know don't eat dinner with me, and they don't roam around my place either. Anyone I know is welcome to hunt hogs in the off season, but it's pretty tough to kill them because I make them bleed every chance I get, and they are smart and paranoid ! They have zero curiosity, unlike deer, and they won't wait to lay eyes on you. At the first noise or scent, they are gone !

Bottom line guys, I guess, if you don't live where they are plentiful, you just can't relate.

From: coelker
22-Feb-17
Seriously? How can anyone complain about a state wanting to do all it can to eradicate a nonnative invasive species? It is great for Texas and hopefully it will help the issue.

As other have mentioned there is no way any hunter, especially a dedicated archery hunter will ever make a dent in the hog populations.

As far as damage and being an issue, yes they cause tons of damage. If you get to know landowners (Ranchers) then you have a chance at some great hog hunting for free or very cheap. However most people are too lazy and want the quick way. thus they search for hog hunts on lands ran by outfitters, etc. There is no reason to whine about paying to hunt. On my paid hunts, I always considered the payment a given and would never ask for anything free.

Hogs are far to smart and far too aggressive to ever think that any one of us even with lots of time and ammo could shoot our way to a contained hog population.

From: LINK
22-Feb-17
Pete I guide deer hunters and this season, on a big ranch with hogs , and hunters hunting over corn piles 1 out of 9 could have shot a pig in daylight on their five day hunt. We found a herd of about 30 and from a vantage point took out about 10 with 5 gunners. Pigs all over but their smart and don't move much in daylight. 1 or 2 guys with automatic weapons(without a helicopter) can't really do much to a pig population, much less a few guys with bows. On this ranch there are 5 irrigation circles. The landowner showed me pictures the state took from an airplane of his red topped cane circle a circle of alfalfa. The damage is very real. Anyone that knows what it takes to grow alfalfa in the Texas panhandle knows when you loose several acres, it hurts.

From: rgb
22-Feb-17
I'm a landowner with a ranch in central Texas, and we have lots of hogs on our property, so I have some personal experience with them. You guys make it sound like the hogs would just stand around and wait for a group of hunters to drive up and shoot them. They are extremely intelligent, and do respond to hunting pressure. They go nocturnal, they move to other areas, they scatter out. They will pattern hunters and avoid exposing themselves. It is not possible to realistically control them by hunting. I heard Dr. Billy Higginbotham, a hog expert from Texas A&M speak about the hog problem at a recent Texas Wildlife Association convention. If I remember correctly, he said that due to their reproductive capacity, you would have to remove 67% of the hog population from a property each year, in order to just keep the population stable. So to make progress in a large area, not only would you have to achieve 67%+ removal, but so would your neighbors. And it would have to recur each year. That is just not going to happen - it really is not possible to make much of a dent from hunting. On our ranch my family and our friends that hunt with us kill 70-80 each year; however there have been times when I have seen several sounders of hogs traveling together that almost numbered that many. So I know we aren't affecting the population much.

The degree of damage varies, but it is real. Sometimes it is very blatant, as when a wheat field gets rooted up overnight. They can destroy a large area very quickly. If that field was your winter grazing for cattle, or a food plot for deer, then that is painful to endure. Hogs compete directly with deer for food, so a lot of groceries that could support deer end up in hog bellies. I would much rather the acorns on my ranch feed deer instead of hogs. Hogs damage fences, they damage feeders, they muck up ponds and stock tanks, they pretty much damage anything that gets in the way of traveling where they want to go and/or taking in calories.

But they do present a quandry. I do in fact enjoy hunting them, and eating them, and would miss them if they were gone. I have no desire at this point to attempt to control them on my property with chemicals, but I have no issue with anyone who does as long as the toxicants will only affect hogs. If things got bad enough, I would consider it. I would have no interest in letting folks I do not know have access to my property to attempt to eradicate them by hunting. I don't want the liability, and I don't want strangers damaging anything. It's a pretty casual comment to suggest that a landowner "just" collect a fee to offset hunter damages; I doubt many landowners would accept property damage by strangers even if they paid for it.

From: Brotsky
22-Feb-17
"If they are an issue why don't people let you hunt them for free...."

I would not let just anyone run around on my place around my family with a rifle shooting hogs unless I was VERY comfortable with them. An archer would have a much better chance of gaining access, but the bottom line is an archer can't kill enough of them to make a damn bit of difference, so why go through the potential trouble for someone you don't know? I can certainly understand a landowner's desire to get a little something in return for his trouble and respect that.

From: drycreek
22-Feb-17
rgb is right about what it would take to control hogs. I've heard the same numbers, and it ain't gonna happen through sport hunting. When I first bought my 217 acre place, about 6/7 years ago, I told my buddy we are gonna shoot every hog and every coyote we see. He's good with that and we killed quite a few boars in the 200/250 lb. range the first couple years. We saw very few sows. Now, we hardly see any of the big nasty boars, we see three or four medium sows with about three different ages of pigs from footballs to 50/70 lb. Trapping is better than shooting, but if they get the chemical thing figured out to where is doesn't have residual effects or kill non-target species, put me in coach, I'm ready to play !

From: timex
22-Feb-17
You read what a nuesence they are....I have called every hog hunting outfit from Tennessee to south fla looking for a place to park a small camper with water Hookup and a place to bowhunt some meat hogs. Every single one of them want to charge $$$$$$$$ Trophy wild boar hunts. Its ridicules if they wont charge a fair price for feral meat pigs. Then let em suffer i hope the pigs rute up an eat everything

From: LINK
23-Feb-17
I hear ya timex. I've called all these ranches Bill Jordan and Michael Waddell hunt. Can you believe none of them will let me camp out for a few days and shoot does and cull bucks for nothing. They can rot in hell. ;)

From: JacobNisley
23-Feb-17
The poison thing just feels super risky to me. Maybe they are right that the levels will be low enough not to effect anything down the line, but coons for sure will probably be wiped out along with the hogs. Could this and other predator/scavenger kill-offs not have large effects on the ecosystem downstream? I'd just want to be pretty sure my dosages and stuff were precise and metered before I'd be poisoning animals on my land.

From: HighLife
23-Feb-17
Here what your saying Jacob was thinking the same thing.

From: Ollie
23-Feb-17
Guys that live outside pig infested areas fail to understand the difficulty in controlling feral hogs. These animals are very, very intelligent...far more so than any deer you will ever hunt. They become nocturnal with minimal hunting pressure. I hunt a large cattle ranch in north Texas every year for hogs. In close to ten years of hunting I can count on one hand how many trail camera pictures I have of hogs feeding at a bait location during daylight hours. They will circle the bait looking for you before committing. How do I know? I can hear them growling at me in the dark fifty yards downwind. In the southeast hogs are found most often found near snake-infested swamps or cutover thickets that are so thick and grown up that you could never walk through one without being cut to ribbons. Good luck at shooting them all out of locations like these.

From: wytex
23-Feb-17
You're just not going to find many landowners anywhere who allow hunting for free, for anything. We here the same the same complaints up here, antelope are everywhere why don't ranchers just let people hunt them without charging. Remember land has costs to own. If you want a free hunt go buy a place. What is reasonable to you? Family runs hog hunts for $100/day no limit, 3500 acre ranch. Lots of very affordable hunts but sounds like if it's not free it's too much for you. Most hog hunters in Texas are opposed to the poisoning just for the reasons mentioned. They rec. checking 4-7 days after putting it out. How many animals can get into it and how far can they roam after ingesting it. Just a matter of time till they are in your neck of the woods anyway. Then you can find some locals to let you hunt. Lack of respect for landowners is what locks up property. Took us 10-15 years to get to know a local rancher, paid for some hunting during that time and did some paying jobs for him, fencing etc. Now we manage his wildlife for him and have hunting privileges. I know many out of state guys who have come up to hunt, [paid access fee then got to know the rancher, offered to help with chores etc while here then ended up with free access in the years to follow. They show respect for the land and the owner.

From: Owl
23-Feb-17
Obviously, there is not (or there is a glitch), but I cannot help but think there would be enough of a market for feral hog meat that trappers and ranchers could come up with a catch fee and the trapper could then sell the hogs to market. Ranchers could work with trappers they trust without bearing the full cost and trappers could prosper better than having all the meat they wanted.

From: petedrummond
23-Feb-17
Cajuns dont complain about them they are a dream animal no season no limit snd they almost taste like chicken.

From: wytex
23-Feb-17
Texas does not distinguish between feral and domestic swine, animal health depart. They can be caught live and slaughtered according to USDA regs and sold. Some processors out there doing it. There are also feral hog buying stations all over Texas. Market is saturated now with feral hogs. The processed meat is expensive also. Many ranches do trap and the trapper keeps the pigs. Many ranches allow the trappers on for free, if they know what they are doing. Getting pigs in a trap after the first set is challenging. They learn about the traps fast. Open, corral type traps have to be used or deer will get in them. They taste better than chicken! Most caught at one trap on family place was 120 hogs over 3 weeks span. That's more meat than we could use. They all went to the buying station.

From: APauls
23-Feb-17
Yikes they sound worse than coyotes!

Timex - I sure hope you are not serious

From: Rut Nut
23-Feb-17
A buddy of mine goes to FLA this time every year to hunt them. The rancher is licensed to trap them in problem(suburban) areas and he gets $50 per pig for every one he captures. Then takes them back to his (fenced) ranch and charges hunters to "hunt" them. He makes a good profit doing this.

From: wytex
23-Feb-17
Serious! We'll be working traps while on own hunt coming up. Sounds like a good market in FL. Can't imagine paying for a fenced hunt, but not looking down on those who do. If you do some research on "other forums" you'll find some really cheap hunts. Day fees with no limit, no frills, but lots of hogs . Northwest Texas is coming on for big boars and exploding population overall. Some ranchers out there offering great hunting opportunities. No license required in Texas to trap them, that I know of, other than a hunting license. The big boar market is what is driving the higher hog hunt fees, IMO, and that is just because folks are willing to pay it . I will admit, I would love to get one of those 300-400 + lb boars that we know are running around the area. When a rancher says if you get him ,call me and I'll bring the tractor, you know he's big.

From: Bake
23-Feb-17
All these responses and only 2 guys are from Texas . . . .

Me thinks the folks that have to deal with them should get to make their own decisions regarding how to manage them.

Let's not get too liberal now . . . .

From: txhunter58
23-Feb-17
We take lots of family and friends and tell everyone to stop shooting when the last one falls, even if they just let them lay, but we still can't keep up. If you have a bunch of people come in to hunt, they move to the adjoining ranch until it quiets down. They won't even come into feeders in daylight at my place. They are as smart as any deer and have a nose just as good. Hunting will never eliminate them. Came around the corner the other day out there and there were 2 momma pigs and about 15-16 little ones. Too quick to get a shot. We probably took over 30 people hunting last year, but no, I am not going to turn a bunch of strangers loose on my property to shoot hogs.

From: Bullshooter
23-Feb-17

Bullshooter's Link
Louisiana is holding off on using Kaput, due to concerns for non-target species, see link. This is a state that allows night hunting, with minor restrictions, and year round taking of pigs due to the damage they cause.

I hunt hogs in La and MS. I just hunted with an experienced group in the LA coastal marshes with dogs. We only took 5, but they often take ~30 in a day. It is not a pay hunt thing, it is a club with land access and airboats. I believe if you allowed them on a land-based lease with their dogs in the off-season, they could make a dent in your population in a weekend or two. Trapping could also make a dent, but the pigs wise up after a while.

In MS, they show up on our lease of several hundred acres, bounded by a river and a lake, and some times we get trail cam pics of 15 at a time, other times you wont see one for months. That is another factor that makes it hard to eradicate them - they apparently roam across wide areas.

23-Feb-17
Well, landowners have the right to not allow people onto their land, and they have the right to complain about hogs too if they like. Us poor folks that don't own land may not like it, but I'm honest enough to admit that if I owned a sizable piece of property the number of people I let roam around on it would be extremely small.

As far as cost, what is the going rate for pig hunts in TX? Where I live the going rate seems to be about $600-$800 for a two day hunt, no accommodations, and a single pig limit. That price usually involves some level of guiding and field dressing, but not meat processing. Plus, CA treats pigs as game animals, so though they are open all year long a hunting license is required ($47.00 resident) as well as a pig tag ($22.42 resident).

That is way too much money for me to spend to shoot a pig, but obviously many people are willing to pay it. I can hardly blame landowners or outfitters for wanting to make a profit. Of course, I doubt our pig population here is as much a problem as in Texas. I live in the region with probably the most pigs in the state, and you rarely see them unless you are on a large private ranch.

From: bigswivle
23-Feb-17
We have a manageable population on my family's place in central Florida(1,000) acres. They can be a real pain in the a$$, we probably kill 75-100 every year and we still have quite a few. I'm a produce farmer and have seen them eat/destroy 10acres of cucumbers in one night. On the flip side they can be a blast to hunt and it gives us something to shoot year round. I can understand both sides of the argument but never underestimate the amount of damage they can cause landowners.

From: Bullshooter
23-Feb-17
I agree that landowners have the right to forbid strangers from hunting or to charge what the market will bear. I think if I owned land I would do the same.

I still don't think poison is a good idea, though. Sometimes actions taken on private lands affects people/animals not on their land. Look at the spread of CWD, partly caused by game farms. Seasons for entire states can be affected by CWD.

From: Bowriter
23-Feb-17
Here in TN, the goal is to eradicate them. But...to kill one, unless it is a special hunt location, you must be on the landowner's list of up to 10 hunters. If you are not and are, say, deer hunting and one walks by, you can't legally kill it. Thankfully, we don't have them in my county...yet.

From: kellyharris
23-Feb-17
Wytex - Sadly the OP has made numerous post that he thinks hunting should be for free.

He often claims it's his heritage at stake?

Me personally I have no problem paying to play. If it's to expensive then it isn't for me so I move on

From: drycreek
23-Feb-17

drycreek's embedded Photo
drycreek's embedded Photo
I'm kinda in the OP's camp about paying to hog hunt. I wouldn't give a nickel to go somewhere and just kill hogs. However, I would crawl on hands and knees to kill ANY hog on my places. I would kill a " freebie " if I'm hunting something else also.

timex, there's only two kinds of people, them that's got hogs, and them that's gonna have 'em, so bide yor time.

From: Fuzzy
23-Feb-17
heckfire man, I've paid good money to take a crap, what's the big deal?

From: LKH
23-Feb-17
If they were truly trying to control them, the first round would go into the sow with all the piglets, not the big boar.

From: drycreek
23-Feb-17
LKH, you are right. If there's a group of hogs, I'm killing the biggest sow there. But if it's a lone boar, I'm killing him. They feed the coyotes on my place, and if I see the coyote, I'm gonna try to kill him too !

From: Heat
23-Feb-17
The USFWS at the Havasu Refuge in Arizona along the Colorado River is going to try to eradicate them with helicopters and sharpshooters. I say what a waste and good luck!

From: txhunter58
24-Feb-17
Went hunting on my place yesterday. My wife had a sow with 12 piglets come in and she shot the sow. I came over to track her and when doing so, her babies came back looking for her. I got 2 more. That only leaves 10 more! And even though they are small (prob 6-8 lbs), you can pretty much bet they will all make it. Every time I get a momma with small pigs and think maybe they won't be able to survive, I always see them later.

From: wytex
24-Feb-17
We've taken the sow first most every time we get into a sounder, just like stated it's population control. Best we've done is 4 piglets nursing a dead sow, they all fell to a .454 lever action. Biggest complaint from our friends and neighbors who lets us hunt their property also is the other guys they let in only want to shoot a big boar. When we tell em we want to shoot them all it opens gates for us.

From: Bullshooter
24-Feb-17
Big boars are worst table fare. Little 40 pounders are best. Almost all are pretty good eating though. JMHO

From: willliamtell
24-Feb-17
quick comments: 1) I completely get that landowners are going to be cautious about just who they let run around their property with firearms. Similarly, managing those hunters, particularly those they don't know well, takes time and energy. 2) I don't mind paying a 'reasonable' trespass fee, but how much is reasonable? $50/pig, $50/day? Even on a place thick with pigs, it can take several days to harvest pigs. I don't need a guide, but I do need enough time on a property to get the job done. 3) There are LOADS of hunters that would beg for a chance to hunt good properties for pigs. Good minds should find a way to connect responsible hunters to landowners. Texas Parks and Wildlife should be working to identify landowners who are willing to at least have a conversation with potential hunters. 4) I don't buy the fact that hunters can't manage pigs. Every place I've hunted I've seen the same thing - you shoot one or more hogs out of a group and the rest of them vacate that area for a while. They know where one or more of their number got killed and they avoid that area. Hunters can/do move pigs around, and in doing so limit the damage, if not control their numbers. 5) Who gives a damn about a trophy hog? Once I got my 3" boar, I turned my attention to eating, which in my opinion is anything up to about a 150-200 lbs animal. 6) I read people talking smack about illegal transport of animals, hunters making the problem worse, etc., but I have yet to see any documentation of same. Sounds like sour grapes/anti-hunting propaganda.

Regarding #3, any Texas ranchers with a heavy pig population who is looking for some hunt pressure to reduce that problem, let me know. I have liability insurance.

From: arbe25
24-Feb-17
No amount of hunting will control their numbers when you have to eradicate about 80% of the population just to maintain current numbers. Many deer hunting clubs and leases in Louisiana released hogs 20-30 years ago thinking it would be fun to have another big game animal to hunt. Trust me, most deer hunters want them gone. If you have pigs, you don't have deer. Or certainly not the number of deer you could have.

In the marsh, we run them down with air boats or mud boats and shoot them with our AR's. We still aren't making a dent. The buzzards are always well fed. The one time I cleaned one and saw worms wiggling around in the meat cured me of wanting to eat one.

They are worse than nutria.

From: Bushwacker
24-Feb-17
I hunt a 36,000 acre working cattle ranch about an hour south of San Antonio. Three rules on the ranch for killing pigs. 1. Kill every pig, no matter the size, whenever the opportunity arises. 2. If you kill it on a ranch road, get it out of the road so they don't have to drive around it, and 3. If you kill it in a water source, remove it from the water source to prevent contamination.

They go up in a helicopter, on average, 4 times a year. Usually one week in early February. Average kill rate, 100 - 150 hogs per day. And by the way, they can legally hunt deer from the first day of bow season (Oct 1) to the last day of February because of the Managed Land Deer permits. Every hog that comes out while they are deer hunting will get shot. How many you think we kill during deer season? I'd say less than 10. They don't come out when the suns up.

The ranch roads look like they have been hit by mortar rounds. That costs them money to hire a man to come grade the roads so they can check cows on a daily basis. You know how many miles of dirt roads there are on a 36,000 acre ranch? I sure don't but it's a lot. And before someone asks, "what do they do with all those dead hogs?" I'll tell you. The scavengers eat well. Just think, how many people would it take to follow that helicopter around, picking up dead hogs, then transporting them several miles back to camp, gutting them, and then, where are you going to store that many carcasses? The ranch has a walk in cooler, will hold about 20 deer/hogs. Nearest town, 20 miles. Sounds like a small army would be needed.

Bottom line, do they want to totally eradicate them? No, but as of now, the only way to keep their numbers under control are by aerial shooting.

If this poison works, and doesn't effect the deer or cattle, I'm sure they'll be using it on the ranch soon.

From: txhunter58
24-Feb-17
"No amount of hunting will control their numbers when you have to eradicate about 80% of the population just to maintain current numbers"

+1 You seem to get them down for a while with hunting, but in reality, they are very smart and will move to the next ranch for awhile.

Some interesting info that I found out today about warfarin in a bait. I am a veterinarian, so a group of us have been discussing this. Anyway: Toxic dose of warfarin for pigs is as low as 3 mg/kg in a single dose. Lethal dose for ruminants (cattle, sheep, goats, deer) is 200 mg/kg daily for 5 days. In other words, deer and other ruminants are very resistant. I am going to proceed slowly, but will definitely keep looking at this as an option.

From: drycreek
24-Feb-17
Good info 58, I hadn't heard that. It seems lots of folks are going off the deep end without very much real info about this. Big brouhaha about it on TexasBowhunter with nobody really having very many facts. The way I understand it, it's still very much in the early stages. My position is, I'm cautiously optimistic.

From: txhunter58
24-Feb-17
My concern is what other animals could be poisoned by eating the dead pigs. Namely someone's dog or cat, and other scavengers including birds. I am not sure we know enough to predict that. It does seem like this has been put on the fast track and not sure why. My ranch is 30 miles form town and there are no neighbors with dogs, but we take our own out there at times.

From: killinstuff
25-Feb-17
As long as guys keep trying to improve their land for other critters they are going to have hogs. Want to get rid of hogs? Get rid of the water. Hog population fluctuate based on rain fall. When the stock tanks dry up the hogs go away. They can't make it 24 hours without a drink.

From: killinstuff
25-Feb-17
As for other critters eating a poisoned hog, they would have to be starving to have to eat one. A big ranch we hunt has a lot of gun killed pigs laying about after deer season they don't get touched by any coyote. Pack rats, rabbits and mice taste better.

From: txhunter58
25-Feb-17
I don't really see your point because you can't get rid of water if you want any deer on your place. We don't have any rain water ponds, just a well and water troughs, but they have to be low enough for fawns to drink out of, and therefore are low enough for hogs. And you can't fence them out for the same reason: fawns.

And your critters must be different than ours. We have a "bone yard" where we throw carcasses of all critters we take. The next time we go after dumping a hog there, the only thing left of a hog is bones and hide.

From: killinstuff
25-Feb-17
Yeah the place we go to is close the Benjamin, 120,000 acres and those hogs rot there they are shot. Cattle and Cat D11's with anchor chain have f-up Texas more than hogs ever will anyway.

From: petedrummond
25-Feb-17
I dont shoot what i dont eat if at all possible. Killinstuff i think i know your mind set. Sad because hog hunting can be a cash cow. At fair chase which charges $500 a day with a one hog a day limit has great quality day hunting and makes as much or more from the hogs as it does deer. And they are always booked solid. Some people look down on catfish and carp too. Sad.

From: drycreek
25-Feb-17
Well, killinstuff, last time it was get rid of the feeders and there wouldn't be any hogs. Now, it's get rid of the water. That's dumber than a bag of hammers.

From: petedrummond
25-Feb-17
In illinois its a box of rocks.

From: txhunter58
25-Feb-17
I will take cattle and Cats over hogs any day. Brush control is only done infrequently and yes it disturbs the soil, but my hogs are rooting my ranch up 24/7/365.

25-Feb-17
There is an article in the latest issue of Bear Hunting Magazine that states hunted populations of bears create females that are able to be bred much younger than populations that are not hunted. I wonder if the same is true of Hogs? They are somewhat similar omnivorous animals.

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