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Anyone that doesnt mind dropping the string on a cow elk, post up a pic of that fine piece of meat
15 years ago
In 2015 I only had opening weekend and we mostly set blinds up for our friends. Almost back to the truck and a herd was walking down the road. Got a cow broke her down then six hours home and to the butcher the next morning as we drove off to Wyoming for the real adventure. Actually my wife loves it when I shoot a spike then we know it's 1 1/2 years old and ultra yummy!
I've shot a few, here's my first bowkill from Colorado 2004. Took me 18 days, lost 15 pounds.
Shooting cow elk is one of the best things you can do for most western herds. While some are below management goals, most are at or above. Killing a cow instead of a rag horn or spike means you might get that former baby bull in a few years when it would go on your wall. Still, I admit to holding out, often too long, for a bull.
Wouldn't consider it unless last day of season.
Depends how low my freezer is that year. If I'm not in need of meat then I won't shoot a cow but rather let them reproduce that year.
This cow got a pass. She and her calf were at 30 yards for 10 minutes at this wallow. A week later I did kill a solo cow elk in another nearby meadow.
No archery pics, but if I can draw a cow tag I have no qualms about rifling one down. Not real interested in using my either sex tag for a cow though.
Last day cow elk. Solo pack out.
First elk I killed. I was pretty excited even though it was a cow.
I do not. Never have , never will. I believe with our dwindling resources and ever increasing pressure on our herds those opportunities should be reserved for our youth, first time hunters, and our senior citizens and disabled hunters... JMHO
Nothing at all wrong with it since there are way more hunters out there addicted to horns who won't shoot a cow and it is about your only choice in UT LE units with a general archery tag...
I personally do not. I've been blessed to have opportunities with bulls and haven't had to shoot a cow to fill a tag. I do enjoy sneaking through the cows to get their daddy!!
I won't shoot a cow if all I have is an "any elk" license. However, I had zero problems killing a yearling cow last year with a reduced price cow license. Needed to refill the freezer. The elk herds in the areas I hunt are over objective...if I don't kill one with the extra license, someone else will.
For those who think our elk herds are too low, much of Montana is above objectives and their challenge is figuring out how to get more cows killed. Same for some of the WY units with large private "shelter" ranches.
I never have figured out why some hunters won't shoot a cow but they have no problem taking a 4 point or small 5 point bull.
Paul@thefort: I'd pass on that cow as well. From the size of the calf, I'm guessing hunting season wasn't even in. Looks like a late spring picture!
Joe, that was the very reason I passed on that cow with calf and I expect that cow might have been breed in mid to late Oct and not late September during the peak of the elk rut. Actually it was mid September when I took that picture while in my make- shift ground blind.
All good herd management includes the harvest of the females to keep a strong healthy herd - cattle included
Taking only the mature bulls will not do that.
Ya know, I think I remember Big Dan saying his first 5 elk with a bow were cows. Dan, forgive if I'm wrong or mis quoting. I thought he was saying to guys who are getting started that they need to just go out and kill an elk, any elk with a bow. I have multiple other guys who have mentored me and helped me along with bowhunting and they all said the same thing. Kill an elk, learn how to be a killer. After you've taken a few then you can start to worry about size if that's what your into. That being said, there ain't nothing wrong with killing cows! This is supposed to be fun remember? Kill whatever makes you happy. I know for me, it's a big deal to make sure we have an elk in the freezer every year. Get er done boys!
If God didn't mean for us to kill cow elk, why did he make them out of meat?
I killed my first cow this past year. I only had 3 days to hunt so I wasn't going to be picky. Hiked in the first morning I was there and called in a cow 15 min after shooting light had arrived. She gave me a 12 yard shot so I took it! Sorry cant find the pics.
Yes, I shoot cows. And I eat cows. I hunt for food ;^)
Unfortunately, it seems I've not taken any pics of cows...
Best of Luck, Jeff
I only shoot them when I have a tag for one. Except for the last tag. Those cows schooled me bad! Cows can be tough critters to tag. love hunting them. ( and eating them)
I haven't,,but I would.....
BDSB....loving that bow. Sharp
I only shoot a bull that I would do a euro or shoulder mount on- taken 16 archery cows in CO
In a heartbeat. First day, last day.
In the majority of situations, taking cows is part of sound management. I find it interesting how many here will on one hand talk up the contribution hunters make to sound game management and the ability to contribute themselves by refusing to shoot cows or does.
I don't shoot cows. Have only shot two, and the last one was in 1997. Cows get a pas from me, even on the last day. It doesn't bother me if others do, but I don't.
I will if I get a chance. Elk meat is good.
I've shot 3 in 30 years. One on the first day of bow season because I knew I was buried with outfitted clients that year. The others on my last day of gun season after passing on bulls looking for the right one. An empty freezer is not an option.
Yep, generally shoot the first legal elk that comes in range. I only get a few days to elk a year and only wild meat my wife likes.
Our group gets as many extra cow tags as we can through the drawing every year, and then we have an awesome tag burning party with BBQ and Beer and plenty of B.S. Great time and an awesome feeling when you know you just saved dozens of Elk over the course of the next 10 years when extrapolating out the numbers...
Broadside, few days into a hunt with no bull around.. probably.
Won't shoot spikes, or a calf though. I like to know they lived some nice elk lives.
''Our group gets as many extra cow tags as we can through the drawing every year, and then we have an awesome tag burning party with BBQ and Beer and plenty of B.S. Great time and an awesome feeling when you know you just saved dozens of Elk over the course of the next 10 years when extrapolating out the numbers...''
I heard that PETA and HSUS do the same thing. You guys are in good company
When I bought my place in MT a rancher told me "You can only get so many pounds of beef off this place. You can take it in 50 head or 100 head, but you will only get so many pounds".
The attitude that we should not shoot cows and is some magic way our herds will continue to expand infinitely is without any basis in fact. It's a holdover from the days when our herds were almost eliminated, in fact they were from many areas. We didn't shoot does so our herds could expand.
Those days are gone for elk. I've worked for several outfitters and deal with ranchers regularly. Their big complaint is that they can't get enough cows killed.
Couple years later.
I tell you what, if anyone has too many cows in their area, let me know ... I'd be pleased as punch to shoot my tag off on a big fat old cow to add more tenderloins to my freezer.
"The attitude that we should not shoot cows and is some magic way our herds will continue to expand infinitely is without any basis in fact."
We try not to let facts get in the way here.
They probably burn a copy of "A Sand County Almanac" each year too. ;-)
It's a known biological fact that killing females of the species controls the herd size. It's also an excepted historical/biological fact that we used to have 10 million elk on this continent and it's known, that we have just over 1/10th that population now.
If people want to pretend that they're doing "elk" a favor by killing cows, they are deluding themselves into believing that - by self-importance and the age-old truth that a man is incapable of forming a logical opinion when trying to peer through the side of his bread that is buttered to see reality on the other side.
We certainly have management objectives that keep elk at certain objectives and for many reasons, it is our fortunate responsibility as hunters to keep elk at those levels. I, too, would be happy to fulfill that need if asked of me under circumstances with which I agree. I love elk meat.
But the honest nuts and bolts of it all is, that the ranchers in the winter ranges decide how many elk live and die in this country, not the hunter who decides to drop the string or pull the trigger on that cow or bull. We have to respect that, no doubt, as these folks have usually been there for well over 100 years, but our elk herds live and die at the behest of the grass that is used to feed cattle. We have far, far more summer range in this country than we need, up in the National Forests and wilderness areas. What we lack, is winter range where the big ranches in the low-lands, where people settled between 1800 and 1900, live and die off of feeding their cattle. In fact, we've lost millions and millions of acres of elk habitat in the lowlands and across the east to development.
Please, do not take my comments to look disparagingly on ranchers or people who kill cows. I have no problem with it. I kill and eat females and young animals every year. But before this conversation further dissolves into the nonsense of "we have to do this or else the elk are screwed," I'd like to inject some reality into why we have cow seasons:
It's because (in many, albeit not all areas) modern society in the year (anything) after 1880, won't tolerate more elk than what is agreed upon between the ranchers, us (hunters), the politicians, the eco-nazis, and the variances of climate that affect localities.
Fact: We kill what they allow us to kill we don't kill what they don't allow us to kill. There are some variances in the extremes where more or less elk "should" be harvested and I could give examples either way, but I stand behind folks like ELKMAN who, in MT, decide to burn tags when the state of MT made the decision to slaughter their elk herd and bring it down below carrying capacity... based upon what? Based upon what?
We could have a lot more elk in this country. Money and development are the limiting factors. That's why we kill cows.
Again, I'm not trying to guilt anyone who kills a cow. It's our job. And it's a nice job to have. But this thread was heading towards a pile of BS that I've seen before and that's why I'm posing this, to head off that nonsense.
FWIW, I also believe that it's also a shame that we kill ewes. If there's extra, we should be capturing them and helo-lifting them to their old haunts. Again, it's all about the money. But it is what it is. So if you have a tag, enjoy your hunt. Just don't try to convince me that where we're at in Western management of our animals is at the ideal. We could do so much better.
Yes sir, Best way to learn to kill elk is by killing elk.
I fill my 2 cow tags most every year.
RP cow/calf in Wyoming and my home state cow tag.
Love it--------->
Good luck, Robb
I wouldn't shoot one in the unit I hunt now because they're trying to rebuild the herds and the bull-cow ratio is good. The herd is down for a variety of reasons, and the only reason they give out the few rifle cow tags (all archery are either-sex) is primarily political for private ranches. The majority of those are private land only and those herds aren't available to regular hunters anyway. Most public land archers shoot bulls here -the 7% who are successful - because bulls can be called into range in the thick stuff.
In the units where I used to hunt, very few cows are shot on the big outfitted ranches, the bull-cow ratio is terrible, and the herd is over winter range capacity. If a few more people would shoot a cow there and let the little bulls grow up, it would be great all the way around. When every outfitter is shooting 15-20 bulls every year like where I used to guide, and virtually NO cows, think about what happens over a 20 year period. Public land hunters can get extra cow tags. Good luck with that. By rifle season almost all the elk are on the huge private sanctuaries.
That's why it's called wildlife "management".
2014
2014
Very well put Ike, and you couldn't have been more accurate, and truthful. The truth is that where I live here in MT. our Elk herds are under assault by big land owners in concert with the so called MFWP. We have turned this state in living hell for our Elk herd, a hell that has no end. I am intelligent enough to know when our Elk are up, and when they are down. And they are fading fast with pressure from all sides. Just because the government bureaucrats issue a tag, doesn't mean it is the "right thing" to fill it. I don't know about you guys but I can think of at least one or two things the government just may have gotten WRONG? I have zero issue taking a female of a species that is bountiful and prolific, and or on the upswing, such as a Whitetail doe. But I would NEVER consider shooting a Mule deer doe. Both are deer, yet one is okay and one is not? (for me) Must have been some thought involved huh? As hunters we also need to be "thinkers", and I'm sure there are a lot of areas where shooting a cow Elk is fine and even possibly right thing to do, but until the MT. Cattlemen and MFWP stop their current effort for Elk eradication, it's not in this state... At least not by me.
2016 Colorado OTC unit 18.
To each his own, but I would not even let my 14 year old son shoot a cow. Well... he says he won't even shoot a spike. Perhaps that's a big reason he's shot two 6 point bulls in his first two seasons of elk hunting. :) II do love eating elk. I just see no need to take a cow.
I live in WV was able to do a DYI drop camp in 2015. Do not know when/if I will make it on another elk hunt. I hunted for a legal bull, day 4 of hunt, the first legal elk in range was a cow. No hesitation, killed her and brought home a bunch of awesome meat.
I would shoot one if it steps out but I've only had shots at bulls............
My game management consists of managing to get meat in the freezer. I would love to fill it with bull elk meat but all my tags say "antlerless" so that is what I shoot.
Ike, when there were 10 million elk in North America, do you think 1.3 million of them were bulls and 8.7 million of them were cows? Regardless of nominal herd size or herd size relative to potential carrying capacity, managers can strive for healthy bull:cow ratios.
That is, unless folks think that reducing the sex that is substantially over-represented in almost all herds should be reserved for the young, old, and infirm.
Of course not Matt, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about cutting herd numbers down below carrying capacity due to political pressure, not managing male:female ratios. And that's been happening in MT and is a constant battle in a lot of different places. Farmers don't want deer eating their crops and ranchers don't want elk eating their grass.
Manager's can cut male tags if they want better sex ratios. That's not what I'm talking about. There's a demand for male tags and that's why there's as many as they are as hunters select for male hunting.
Killing females (from a manager's standpoint) is done to bring down the size of the overall herd. Females birth more males and females the following year. Males just breath and eat. The only reason to kill females to manage the sex ratio is when you want to kill X amount of males and need to even things out some. The fact of the matter is, when it comes to the out-of-whack sex ratios in OTC CO and OR, that the males are being over-harvested, not the females being under-harvested. The female harvest is to keep the numbers in check because herd numbers grow if you don't kill females.
And if I recall, a year or so ago, you were opposed to female mule deer tags in CA because numbers were/are hurting, so I know you understand the debate, but we're talking about two different things. My entire thread above was due to a few comments that were going down the lines of (paraphrased), "I'm killing cows because it's my moral imperative/it's my job," and I've seen that nonsense before. We're killing cows because the F&G departments have to appease those who own winter range and because we want to. We could have TONS more elk in this country - maybe not everywhere, but in a lot of places. We have TONS of public summer range that is barely used and TONS of public year-round range that hasn't been colonized by resident herds due to herd numbers not requiring animals to live in places where they're more susceptible to hunting pressure during hunting seasons.
And FWIW, this year, I'm probably going to try and kill a bull and a cow (provided I don't draw a 2nd bull tag). But I'm not going to claim to be a great American for doing it. If I kill a cow, it's going to be because I want the meat and I like hunting elk, not because I'm some sort of elk savior. And I will not kill a cow where I don't agree with the management levels/goals of the herd size.
"If I kill a cow, it's going to be because I want the meat and I like hunting elk"
This is my reasoning each and every year
Thanks for all the replies with successful cow pics!
Something that all these cow pics have in common with a 6x6 bull pic is the smiles are just as big and genuine :)
We love filler freezers with elk meat. Cows included
I've shot a few cows when I was a a young boy, but I don't shoot them now. I have taken kids and shot cows thou.
I can see both sides and see how killing cows can hurt herds
Where I hunt I get a general elk tag (any elk) and a antlerless elk tag over the counter. I try to shoot the first cow I can and then hold out for a bull bigger than my last (aiming for 355"+ now)
What happens when the cow elk start identifying as bulls? The chaos that will ensue will be terrible on the herd dynamics! Just had to lighten the mood. Good luck in the draws, no matter which sex tag you get.
I was super excited to get this cow last fall in NM! Pete
It's been years since I didn't harvest one, some years I take 2 on additional tags. Numbers are way above objective in our hunt area and it is good herd management to take some.
Good stuff Hunting Dad. LOL!
This was my first year elk hunting but I have no problem putting a cow in the freezer. That meat is way too delicious!
Way to be a-week-and-a-half late to the party Pat. It's a good thing we read Bowsite for you to make sure there's no crazy stuff said here...
Have killed a couple. Like Jeff, no pics though..... they kinda all look alike.... =D
WRT management.... that depends. I do know all about the cow tag issues in MT and the political pressure from ranchers, etc. If in a low numbers game, you let those that can increase the numbers walk. The biologists should be more transparent about their reasoning behind their management goals. If politics are going to drive things.... then let the folks who vote know what those politics are.
But many times it is not a numbers game, it's a ratio game. As was mentioned in the OR elk thread, a 1-10 bull/cow ratio is not good for hunting or the herd. You sure aren't gonna call any bulls or hear much bugling when they are the only bull in the valley and surrounded by cows. There are many cases where cows need to be taken for the health of the herd. Each situation and area have different goals and needs for different reasons. Carry capacity is many times not a "today" issue but a "tomorrow" one. Sometimes in cases of prolonged drought and such the overall herd numbers need to be reduced, and quickly.
I have some issues with an attitude I see locally sometimes.... "I don't shoot girls...." and such. A cultural thing, it's somehow seen as unmanly to kill females...... but logic not being the strong suit, the same folks will chow down on that burger or steak not knowing what sex it was. Up to them, not my business to tell em what to and what not to shoot. Reasons matter..... but then again ya can't fix stupid anyway.....
Like they said above, given the chance I'll put elk meat in the freezer every time over an empty freezer.
im new too the ELK hunting this fall will be my first ever trip my buddy and i will be bow hunting colorado and im a meat hunter so to fill my freezer with wild game is very important to my family of five we fish hard for bluegills in the spring into early summer then we move into coho on lake michigan in between all that we try to get a few wild turkeys we are very hard core whitetail bow hunters we get several deer a year cause we dont buy beef ive made my mind up that on our 14 day ELK hunt in CO this fall i will hold off on shooting a cow until the last week i will shoot at any legal elk inside of my effective killing range if im so lucky to get that opportunity i figure i need to notch ELK off my list of north american animals taken with my bow and arrow and get the shot placement practice ill need for my future ELK bull hunts.............so yes shoot the cows to help population control and feed the family :)
Hate to break the news, but bowhunter's harvest as a group plays a tiny roll in herd size and bull to cow ratio. As individuals, shooting or not shooting a particular legal animal may meet a personal objective, but it isnt changing herd dynamics. If 10,000 bowhunters stayed home in one area in protest and it resulted in 1500 less elk killed, the managers would likely issue enough rifle tags to compensate the following year. If the protest was spread out over several states, it would barely be a blip on the screen.
We aren't the cause or the solution to whatever herd issue someone wants changed. Population sizes are set by a combination of science and politics. Population sizes are changed with rifles.
bigbuckODY
" ive made my mind up that on our 14 day ELK hunt in CO this fall i will hold off on shooting a cow until the last week i will shoot at any legal elk inside of my effective killing range"
Good luck with that :) Its been my experience and others that have hunted with me, that on day 2, when a big ol' cow comes trotting in and stands there broadside at 20yds, the thought of hesitating goes out the window and you end up dropping the string :)
Glunt, never let it be said I didn't do the least I could to do my part...... =D
" Its been my experience and others that have hunted with me, that on day 2, when a big ol' cow comes trotting in and stands there broadside at 20yds, the thought of hesitating goes out the window and you end up dropping the string :) "
No hesitation from me, buddy. Unless, of course, there's a nice bull right behind her! :)
I can't pass up a shot on a cow.. filling the freezer is my priority
