Ryan's future science fair project
Equipment
It's Science Fair time around these parts and although my son is one year too young to participate, he and I were talking about this for next year. He was kicking over ideas for a project next year and his mom mentioned "why don't you do something with archery". I said it might be a good idea to look at penetration of arrows across different weights. I also thought he could vary the broadhead used (could go mechanical or could go 2 vs. 3 blade). He would shoot different weight arrows with two different broadheads into a block target and measure penetration. This would be a 2x3 design with 2 broadheads and a light, medium, and heavy arrow. This would allow him to look at the main effect of arrow weight, the main effect for broadhead, and the interactive effects of both.
I'd like to keep the diameter of the arrows constant. I'd also like to keep the cutting diameter of the broadhead constant. That would at least remove those as confounds.
This would be a fun project for him and something he would take interest in. He'd also learn a bit about the scientific method and how one can go about trying to answer real world problems with empirical examination.
So... here are my questions: 1) what three arrows should I try track down for this? I'm thinking something in the 350, 450, and 550 grain kind of ranges- seem reasonable? 2) Also, what two broadheads? I'd guess using a 2 blade Magnus vs. a large expandable (Spitfire Maxx) would give the largest differences, but the large difference in diameter would be a confound. Would I see a meaningful difference between a similar sized 2 blade and 3 blade fixed head? Obviously, this is an empirical question, but what do you guys think? With the idea of keeping cutting diameter constant, I think two fixed heads with a different number of blades is a reasonable plan of attack. Agree? 3) If we can nail down arrow options I may be in the market for single arrows of different weights and since my fellow bowsiters have about a million of them, I may be pestering some of you for one. I just need one of each and I'll happily pay your costs for them. I also may be able to find single arrows locally too, so it may not be a problem.
Thanks for your thoughts on this!
Scoot - Great science project! I think both dad and son are going to have fun with this! Both will learn. Betcha if Jr. stays in archery this will be something he will remember forever. Our society needs involved parents like you to keep kids heading down the right road. Good for you. Keep the forum posted on progress and results.
Scoot,
With todays zero tolerance on so called weapons I would get permission from someone at school first. So many times we see school officials look at policy vs. common sense.
Just my 2 cents
Scott, I think Ryan's Mom is brilliant! When you can "marry passion with profession, great things happen."
Keep us posted,
Mark
Great idea Scoot! I'll hook you up with a 450gr FMJ for Ryan's test. I'll even leave a 100gr VPA attached to use as one of his broad heads.
My son actually did a science fair project on the arrow penetration a few years ago. He compared different broadheads by shooting them through ballistics gel covered in deer hide with thin paneling resemble ribs. He actually got first place in his class for his project, and the school had no problem with him bringing the broadheads into the school but we did ask ahead of time. Let me know what arrows you're looking for, right now I'm shooting Carbon Express Maxima Reds with a brass insert. Total arrow weight including broadhead I think is around 470 grains.
Maybe the evolution of arrows. Shot from the same bow to measure speed and penetration. Start with woodvehafts then aluminum moving to the early skinny carbon and on to modern carbon arrows. Sounds fun and positive project. Keep us posted.
I have judged Science Fair projects for years. (like almost 30) I always loved to see involved and supportive parents, BUT I always deducted points on projects actually DONE by parents. Help the kid, offer suggestions, provide guidance and materials, but let the kid do the work, and make sure they UNDERSTAND the science. Good luck :)
It should be awesome. I hate it's not in my area. :)
Scoot, doesn't carbon express make a lighter weight maxima,? Blue Streak maybe?
Also, with a grin like that, maybe Ryan should look at a project in dentistry field. He'd be a shoo-in! ;>}
I've also got some Easton Ion's that would be around 325 gr with a 100 gr head, diameter is .236 or 6 mm whichever way you want to look at it. I think that would be slightly smaller diameter than Carbon Express.
I also have some GT's, 3555 which might be real close to your CE's at 333 gr give or take.
Having 4 archers in the house of varying sizes means I have a LOT of various arrow sizes and random arrows laying around.
Without reading all posts I would start w/ a hypothesis based on velocities achieved w/ different weighted arrows plugged into equations supporting your expectations then test them, likewise if you later used BH or different diameter arrows. I would use all the same spine but tube them to adjust weight, thus making all things equal but ONE variable. I wouldn't introduce BH's until after you've solidified your findings w/ field points, who knows what kind of time crunch you may run into. Start with a straight penetration test and ramp it up as time allows.
Scott, If Ryan decides to do, let us know so we can help out however we can to assist in a positive experience!
Mark
Chris S has a great idea!
Show how Science helped the evolution of something as primitive as a arrow
Start with a wooden shaft with flint tip
Then a wooden shaft with a broadhead
Then aluminum with broadhead
Then carbon shaft with broadhead
You could even show kinetic energy increase with better technology bows a long bow then a recurve then a compound from the 70s to a compound from this year. Show how science changed the world of bow hunting based on scientific improvements by constantly improving on penetration
If you decide to follow Kelly's suggestion, I'll gladly knap you a stone point. Give me a width and grain weight to match
"I have judged Science Fair projects for years. (like almost 30) I always loved to see involved and supportive parents, BUT I always deducted points on projects actually DONE by parents. Help the kid, offer suggestions, provide guidance and materials, but let the kid do the work, and make sure they UNDERSTAND the science. Good luck :)"
Fuzzy is spot on! I have judged a few fairs (not nearly as many as Fuzzy), and worked with kids as a teacher from the local level all the way to the International Science and Engineering Fair. There is a big big difference in the quality of the project when the child does it as opposed to the parent (or the teacher!). But at the same time, when a parent provides the support, takes an active interest, and assists in parts of the project, the quality usually goes up. As Fuzzy said, make sure your boy knows the science.
Watch the variables. If you go with arrow weight and penetration comparisons, adding a different broadhead pretty much adds an additional variable and you need to deal with it accordingly. Some judges frown on that as a controlled experiment tests only one variable at a time. I believe you can make it work but maybe treat it as 2 experiments and compare the results between them. He might even consider the broadhead as a continuation for the next year.
Be sure you conduct enough tests. We used to tell our junior high kids to run at least 10 trials of whatever they were doing and high school at least 20. We had some that would run 100's of some things. More shooting time in your case. ;) Also, figure out a way to draw the bow back and release consistently, that can be a big variable.
Finally, keep us posted, this could be fun.
Scoot...Its official...You need to buy Ryan a Hooter Shooter so he can do his homework! Make sure to keep us updated on the results.
Good point...use that logic with your wife on the purchase...
Just another variable to consider- left bevel/right bevel/double bevel two blade heads.
