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I am shooting a 70# bow with PileDriver arrows. With fletched arrows, I am getting a perfect paper tear but when I shoot a bare shaft, I am getting a left tear. Does this mean I need to trim my arrows to make them stiffer or move my rest towards the riser. I am a right handed shooter. I shoot mechanical heads but I want the bow tuned as best as I can. Would it be best to continue paper tuning with a bare shaft with tuning paper at 10 yards or broadhead tune at 30-40 yards?
Your vanes are all ready stabilizing your arrows at ten yards. Paper tune at two or three yards with fletched arrows and see what you get.
What kind of bow and do you have access to a press?
Also, definitely paper tune at about 6-10'. I start bare shafts at 10 yards and will shoot them again at 20. If they are grouping together nicely I'll move right to broadhead tuning starting with 20 yards and extending out all the way to 100 making sure broadheads and FP's group together.
Arrows are still flexing too much at 6ft, at least 10ft. is best. My pro shop says 12 ft is about perfect. Scooby
When I paper tuned with vanes at closer distances, they did well.
I think you need to move your rest right slightly. Google bare shaft tuning chart.
I used to bear shaft tune, after a fishing trip on the Russian River, I've decided there was a better way.
Gave away my papertune stand. Now only adjust for level and centershot aligned with the berger hole.
Adjust sights at 20 yds with field points. Make sure I can make every shot on 1" spot.
Screw on a non-vented three bladed broadhead and shoot. Adjust vertical first with rest if minor. Then lateral using yokes (if applicable).
Tuning in an art. Could be nock pinch, torque, out of tune, vane contact, arrow spine, etc.
Make notes, and keep a log. Helps to remember what corrections you make.
FYI, I shoot 125 g points, and adjust nocks so they are snug, not snap on.
Good luck.
BTW, Van Handle sells a high quality tuning kit for center shot and string level.
A nock left tear means slightly weak. You can either trim shaft length or move the rest away from the riser, for a right handed shooter. If I had to move the rest over 1/16, I would trim shaft length and try again.
You can move your rest right and try it, but I'd shoot at 10 yards with a bareshaft and fletched into a bale. Then let us know what the impact is like. Pic would be best:) Like this
Left tear= move the rest toward riser (if RH).
Lots of factors at play so could be a few things such a torque, cam lean, DL, etc. Spine is possible but unless your shooting 400 I bet it's something else.
What Hawkeye said..... if not shooting some toothpick I wouldn't mess with spine,. So many of the old "guides" as well as old info given relates to a trad setups where you tune the arrow to the bow..... as there is very little you can do to the bow.
A modern compound shot by release you just need the shaft to be stiff enough to not cause an issue itself, and you adjust the bow to the arrow by either the rest or yokes. Timing and other factory specs should be on. The last few years split yoke systems rule WRT tuning.
Set the rest down the pipe and then adjust the yokes for a bullet hole through paper at like 6' and 12'. Then go to broadhead tuning with the rest a micro-fraction at a time. Field point groups and FBBH groups stacking on each other and you can screw whatever head you want on your shaft and good to go.
The vanes will stiffen the shaft. I think you're fine
I stand corrected, Hawkeye is right, move the rest to the right. For a finger shooter move to the left. All these years I had no idea fingers and a release were exactly opposite. Now I am amazed I ever got anything to tune.
The following question is not a snarky, I know it all question. I'd like a logical response.
I'll preface it with this; tuning questions show up all the time on here, which is great because the best Bowhunters in the world frequent this site. That said, most issues with tuning could be fixed with a stiffer spined arrow.
My question.
Why don't more people shoot 250 or 200 spined arrows so they are overspined (and heavy) vs trying to fight the small tuning adjustments needed when riding the line between a 300-340(350)?
Just curious....
Nick- it's actually a good question and with today's bow's you probably could. I would say for me, it's about arrow weight and building the arrow I want, but I'm shooting .300 spine this spring for turkey with a heavier head. The reason I think it wouldn't solve much is because I think 'most' tuning issues are related to cam synchronization, cam lean, DL, grip, and rest adjustment. Most shoot a spine that would work, but the wheels fall off the bus when the other factors come into play and can't be accounted for.
Nick, I have been preaching stiff spined arrows in a modern compound for 2 decades...guys using those charts and software trying to get it too close...then end up underspined- its crazy. I've been about 1-2 sizes over spined for decades- shoots and tunes great.
Sure a guy with perfect form can shoot an underspined arrow well. But then you screw on BH's and thats when the trouble starts.....
NIck - Why don't more people shoot 250 or 200 spined arrows so they are overspined (and heavy) vs trying to fight the small tuning adjustments needed when riding the line between a 300-340(350)?
I shoot Axis 300 at 60#/28
I don't believe that Nick is why? The guy who I shoot with and was one of the best archers in the world for a time says and arrow that is too stiff will have a tendency to plane in the direction it first points at launch. He said the arrow must flex enough to allow proper tuning and that is why he paper tunes at 12 ft or so. It gives the arrow a chance to at least slow its flexing at that distance. Funny I shoot a .400 spine cut to 27.5"s which is my draw length out of a 67# Mathews ZXT with 190 grains of point weight. 80% of the guys on here would laugh and say I am underspined, but I get perfect paper tuning and perfect broadhead and filed point flight out as far as I can accurately shoot. If what you were saying was true arrow manufacturers would only make like 2 spines of arrows for the folks who hunt. I always say buy a spine tester that reads in actual poundage as well as deflection in inches. A .400 spine carbon for example when spined with supports at 28"s and the weight at 14"s depending on manufacturer spine between 78-83#s on the bunches I have tested. These folks do not want to be sued so they always err on the side of caution. Scooby
Nick, IMO many are trying to squeeze every FPS out of their rig they can. So they go to the lightest shaft they can. Or the "pro shop" is pushing the lightest arrow they can. (or what they have overstocked or picked up on sale from a distributor)
Hard to build a sub 400 grain arrow with a 300+ shaft, or even a 340. Lots of folks trying to get down to 350, even less.
The idea of the right amount of "flex" at release is a trad bow tuning concept that many try to carry over to modern compounds shot with a release. They are two completely different animals.
WRT to "tuned" I guess that means different things to different folks. To me it's not tuned until your fixed blade broadhead groups are right on top of your FP groups, screw on any head you like of matching weight and don't have to touch the sights. If you want to shoot a mech head you can do so by choice and not need. (Do your tuning with fixed blades though) It can be time consuming and frustrating..... but when you get there it's well worth it. IMO.
Others "tuned" is "good flight", they only shoot one model broadhead and adjust their sights when it's time to hunt. Again, IMO, just because a person CAN get their rig to shoot well at whatever distance they feel confident still does not mean that's the best their rig can be tuned to shoot. Sometimes people tend to start off with something that they are trying to make work rather than chose components from the start that match.
Then again broadhead tuning doesn't mean it's the best their rig can be tuned either. It just shows that two different arrows have the same POI. Only a high speed camera or shooting through paper actually shows stable flight (a tuned bow/arrow).
TD, I shoot both and tune both differently. Watch how much an arrow flexes when shot out of a compound, it is just not side to side like a traditional bow but the flexing is huge. Shawn
Actually Scooby, it doesn't need to flex at all. It can, and does often when using arrows "on the fence" WRT spine.
My hunting arrows don't flex at all once they leave the string on my bow. My outdoor target arrows flex for about 12-15 yards, and my indoor target arrows don't flex at all, zero.
