Electric Fat Tire Mountain Bike
General Topic
I just test rode an Electric Fat Tire Mountain bike. Costs about $2,300. I loved it and would seem to work well for how/where I hunt. I drive a big suburban, so I can't get back into 4 wheeler places, so could use it on 4 wheeler roads, but also on closed roads where I elk hunt in CO and national forest land I turkey/deer hunt in Nebraska. Anyone own one? Is it worth it?
I use a regular mt bike as the electric ones are illegal in any non motorized restricted area. Bikes can be pretty handy.
I've always wondered about that bowcrazy. Some closed roads say no motorized vehicles so i'm not sure if it falls into that category. It would be great if you could use it.
The electric ones really do help you go faster farther. The limiting factor is the battery charge. Takes a lot of time to get a full charge, and then it only goes for a couple hours. The bikes I have tried are electric assist so you can always get out the old fashioned way when the battery is drained. You should look at solar charge options and a back up battery if serious about going for long periods of time.
Yes, one needs to watch the signs, but assuming it is legal, wondering what experiences others have had. I am especially interested as it can assist on a prolonged uphil climbs. Pedaling a normal mountain bike uphill with a load is not much faster than walking, and more tiring IMO. I am told that an ebike can really help with a climb.
I have the Rambo bike, love it, get about a true 20 miles before I have to recharge, it will climb any hill you are brave enough to attempt , the power assist pedaling is the BOMB! yes some places are closed to powered bikes so check your regs. The Rambo decked out runs about $3000 retail.
Spikehorn, do you pull a cart or simply wear a backpack? Wondering about power if pulling a cart plus 40 lbs (my typical backpack weight)
Why not get your self a Street Glide or Soft Tail?, :0)
My partner has a Felt bike with electric assist - it is awesome for expediting entry where there are established trails. He even has a trailer that we can Pack out quarters on. Only downside is the price tag. Wish I could afford one...
My partner has a Felt bike with electric assist - it is awesome for expediting entry where there are established trails. He even has a trailer that we can Pack out quarters on. Only downside is the price tag. Wish I could afford one...
Kellyharris: I assume those are motorcylcles, which would be a better option for many hunters, but not me. I don't know how to ride a motorcycle, it can't fit in the back of my suburban, would require gas, insurance, etc. and it's likely much more costly. Ebikes are simplier. You may have been joking, but you did make a very good point as many of the trails I would ride the ebike are motorcross trails thru the national forest.
You may not get up the hill fully loaded any faster on a pedal bike than walking, but I bet you will have a whole lot more fun getting down the hill, and get down a lot faster. Then you will go up empty to get another load.
I use a cart, it will pull 250# I just got it this past season but did not kill anything to haul out, but it was great for hauling stands and whatnot.
Spikehorn....I'm interested in the Rambo myself, and am prolly gonna pull he string, and buy one. How long have you owned yours, and have you had any problems? Good or bad. Just would like to know as much as i can, before purchase.
Poudre, is that vias camo on that bike factory? Thats sweet! Felts in general are higher end bikes.
Yep, she came like that. It's my partner's bike, but he lets me ride it when we're scouting cuz he's way more fit than me, and that way I can keep up:) they really can change the way you hunt. Just wish they weren't so freaking expensive...
Kelly,
Because real men ride Dynas! LOL!
Jerry, go Google E-bike review for lots of info, on hunting bikes and hill climbs.
BC173 I have had it just a few months now only 100 miles or so, no problems, I will give it good work out this summer, have a shop and got this one to sell, had lots of guys interested but no takers yet, so I guess I have to use it myself, ( that was the intention all along LOL) you can find them online fir around $2400 or so, well built and sturdy, had mine up to 23 MPH in 6th gear. Way to fast for the woods.
I got to demo the Rambo at the P&Y rondevous. I was impressed. Most if not all MTN trails are too rough for this or I would get one, not that they are touted for such terrain. Northern WI type logging roads would be ideal for travel. Expect to see more in use every year.
Are Trad (itional) bikers going to get down on them on the single track forums. lol
I use a regular mountain bike and trailer when deer and turkey hunting out in eastern Colorado and Nebraska. I hunt mainly wilderness in the mountains so Ive not really ever considered a bike there. Ive heard the laws can get kinda tricky with the electric bikes. There is a federal rule I believe on whats considered "motorized", but how many LEOs would even know that? I'm going to build a new bike this year with a focus on hunting, I am going to go open mold carbon frame, 27.5+ and try and keep it as light as possible
When I think of limitations of hunting an area, it has everything to do with getting an animal out and little to do with getting myself/camp in. The idea of even putting 100 lbs on your back and being able to ride out and then back in easily really does open up some possibilities. It's almost like cheating, but then again, it's not much different than a horse except you don't have to worry about the bike running off into the mountains while you're hunting.
In Nebraska, I've used my bike trailer and hauled out 3 deer so far. It works great! Granted, this is pretty much flat ground though. You would be surprised how quickly you can cover a mile or so with a bike!
Recommendations on bike trailers, pictures
First of all, I assume you know that a bicycle in any form is prohibited in a wilderness area. Nothing with wheels allowed, even a wheeled cart.
I also researched the definition of a "motorized vehicle" and there seems to be a federal law that says it is not a motorized vehicle if it is less than 1000W and doesn't exceed 20 mph. However, when I asked both the forest service and the DOW in Colorado about this and the use of these bikes on "no motoroized travel" trails, they said they would write me a ticket. It would be up to me to challenge it in court. Judge may side with me, but prob not worth the hassle.
Here's my trailer. I picked it up on eBay for 25 bucks. It's basically a flatbed version of those child carriers you see. It works great and I've carried a lot more weight than it's probably meant to
Funny looking trailer LOL
What were you expecting a bicycle trailer to look like?
I'm likin' that set up Titan!!
Certainly didn't expect it to look like a Madonna! Did you not look at the picture you posted, or are you joking for some reason??
Titan bow
You are hallarious.......not really.
My apologies for an abbreviated request for useful intel on bike trailers . There are dozens of bike trailer manufactures . The designs vary greatly. Some attach to the rear sprockets some to the rear racks and others attach to the seat post . When looking at these trailers it's only a guess as to how they will actually perform in rough terrain with a load. Tangential loading on the bike frame and torque will vary greatly depending on design. Since you claim to have hauled 3 deer out with your trailer I thought you might be able to provide fellow bowhunters with some useful,"practical"information regarding bike trailers.
I'm VERY greatful to to the bowhunters who have generously shared their knowledge over the years . I try to reciprocate with the little knowledge I have.
Maybe I need to check out some Comedy Club websites for bike trailer info......?
I finally checked this post from my desktop. That pic is not what I posted from my iphone, and its not the image that was showing on my iphone.
depending on the wattage most e bikes still fall under the bike classification. my radrover is the best $1500 I have spent. Lots easier than packing up a 4 wheeler everyday
"it's not much different than a horse except you don't have to worry about the bike running off into the mountains while you're hunting."
Idyll if I bought a $3000 bike and left it by a trail I'd be pretty worried it might run off. Probably one of those things that would never happen but it would be on my mind.
Titan Bow
Thanks for posting the pic of your trailer
"depending on the wattage most e bikes still fall under the bike classification"
What is your point? Regardless of wattage, you would most likely get a ticket if you rode them on trails that say "no motorized travel"
Titan - crazy how the trailer pic shows correctly on iphone, but on desktop is a statue.
Thanks for all the comments, good food for thought. Would sure make life easier, but not sure if worth the price.
I have seen this debate all over the internet. I will refer you all to the following rules before you get caught breaking the law. I would 100% call the law on anyone I saw using one of these illegally. FYI- If your using it legally, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
http://flagstaffbiking.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/20150929EBikesBriefingPaper.pdf http://flagstaffbiking.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/E-Bikes-on-Public-Lands-BLM-Field-Going-Notification-July2015.pdf
Bowcrazy,
I own a bike shop, and there are a lot of options out there in ebikes. Are you wanting a fat tire (4" plus) or something smaller in width (2.25" to 3")?
Some of the motors are in the rear wheel, some in the bottom bracket where the pedals attach, some are in the front wheel.
Steel frame, aluminum or carbon? Pulling a trailer puts differing stresses on frames, make sure the bike manufacturer is OK with you pulling a trailer. Some will be, some won't. And it will also depend on where you hook the trailer up on the bike. That changes the stresses.
It can most certainly be done, and work very well. I have not used a mountain ebike off road yet, but have ridden numerous ebikes and the pedal assist is pretty nice. I have pulled a trailer many times (Burley) and they too work very well. I know everyone wants to save a buck and get the best deal possible, but I would suggest you cut corners on the bike and not the trailer. And plan on spending $3K plus for a good mountain ebike or more. A decent regular fat bike can be had for $1300.
And using them off road is a very volatile issue with "traditional" bikers vs ebikes if you plan on riding bike trails.
Happy shopping and if you do get one, you will love it for far more than hunting.
Mallard, I am not sure that your link answers the question. Just because the BLM, or the US forest service, or local game warden classifies an ebike as a motorized vehicle doesn't make it so. Would their classification supercede a federal law that says they are not? I am willing to go along with what they say because it is not worth fighting, but I have not seen any definitive answer on the issue and your link doesn't answer that question.
I called LE while looking at 2 E bikes siting by a "non motorized" road. When I asked if they were legal, the LE made it pretty simple, "do they have motors?" I then asked about wattage, again, "do they have motors?"
txhunter58, Are you serious? Did you read the two separate articles clearly stating they were prohibited? How much more cut and dry do you want them to make it? Its in plain English. lol
Federal Law Supersedes state law and the argument that If a state law gives people more rights than a federal law, the state law is legally supposed to prevail. This means state law will always supersede federal law when the person in question stands to gain more from the state law, right? Wrong. The law that applies to situations where state and federal laws disagree is called the supremacy clause, which is part of article VI of the Constitution. The supremacy clause contains what’s known as the doctrine of pre-emption, which says that the federal government wins in the case of conflicting legislation.
On the flip side of that I would love to see someone from Texas try to fight a ticket in a court of Colorado. Let me know how that works out for you...
As I said in above posts, I would never do it, even if there is some question because it is not worth the hassle. It is not a windmill I care to tilt. That said, I did fight a ticket given to me about a motorized vehicle (4 wheeler) and won. That was the one and only time I took a 4 wheeler to Colorado. I tend to hunt areas that have a restriction on motor vehicles, which generally means less hunters/better hunting. Gonna use horses along with a peddle only bike next fall.
By the way, it is a Federal law that states that some e bikes are not classified as motor vehicles. That is where the confusion comes from. I have not been able to pull that up in searching this time.
I saw an ebike called Rambo and it was nice. The trailer they had on it was super well built and looked like it would hold up to 200 lbs. I had a cannondale kid trailer that was solid plastic and it was amazing wherever I took it. It was rated for 100 lbs but I had over 200 on it one time.
I just got back from a dealer show and they had one there to try and it was pretty cool. I have the opportunity to get them at a reduced rate. If there are a few interested I could check how many I would have to purchase and it is the Rambo one.
I agree with previous posters in that I am not gonna take an ebike and try and shove it down a law enforcement officers face. Its not an issue where I hunt as bikes and ATVs are allowed on some designated trails so I don't have to worry about it. I didn't realize I would touch a nerve when I posted that ebikes bikes under 750 watts are not considered motorized. I don't need a Forest Ranger to taze me to know better than to it take on a wilderness trail for a test case ;)
Couple of things to keep in mind about ebikes. They work great for a while, then like most electrical products you start to get into maintenance/repair issues. The problem is most ebike manufacturers go out of business very quickly - the bike industry rag has specific discussions about that topic. Some of the major bike manufacturers (Specialized) are starting to make them, so that will go a long ways towards not being stranded. The warranty runs for a year or less, so don't expect a freebie when you have to get it repaired. There are some really nice cargo ebikes out there - they look funky but you can avoid trailer issues on rough trails. An electric motor is a motor. Mechanized travel in wilderness areas is a no-no even if you don't have a motor. lmo there is a big future for ebike-based hunting. As we know, taking out multiple 75-lb loads on your back in a short period of time is challenging even for the most fit. There are challenges and logistics, but for most folks it's probably easier than horses.
I don't know much about them but did see them at the dealer show and thought they where really cool. I just set up a account with Rambo Bikes today so if any one is really serious about one I believe I can save you some money just pm me. Like I said I don't know a lot about them but if you know what you want I can probably save you a few bucks.
No bikes, motorized or not, are allowed on fed lands up here. You can drive a pickup on the fed's roads, but no bicycles. I asked why and received the answer, " that's just the way it is." No walking dogs, no horses either.
Lawdy I'd probably ride a bike and contest the ticket. That just doesn't sound right - where the heck is the distinction? In many states bicycles are considered 'motor vehicles' in terms of both rights and responsibilities. If it isn't a highway or freeway I'd be very surprised if they could cite you and have it stick.
The problem is that if we get cited, court is in Boston, a 5-6 hour drive. I have fought this landgrab up here for 10 years and they would love to make an example out of me.
Just got my Rambo bike Saturday and put it together in about 45 min. It is super cool. If anyone interested in one PM me .
Bowman, I think I'd swap that seat out for one a little more cushy!
I agree that there's a future for e-bikes for hunting as the technology matures. It's come a long way in a short time. That 60 Minutes segment about them being used in the Tour de France and other pro races was pretty stunning. The 60 Minutes reporter riding one in the show said it just "took off" on him when he engaged the assist. The inventor said they're making rapid strides in the development process.
Jaquomo The seat just looks small because my butt is so big LoL!!!!!
Sunday night (March 27)- Carrying turkey blind, chair, full body decoy, bow, etc. The bike got me 2 miles back - a hike i would never consider with such a load.
Sunday night (March 27)- Carrying turkey blind, chair, full body decoy, bow, etc. The bike got me 2 miles back - a hike i would never consider with such a load.
Thanks for everyone's input and PMs. The comments like, "if you get one, you'll love it for far more than hunting" and others helped me to buy one. Bowman's (Greg B) price put the bike at just a little above a high end carbon bow. I couldn't resist and am so glad I bought one. I consider it a "poor man's 4 wheeler" - gets me to places quicker and less tired than walking. For my style of hunting and where I hunt, it is a game changer.
Monday morning at 11:30 am, harvested a public land Tom. Without the bike I likely would not have hiked 2 miles in morning with all the gear. Needless to say, I got away from the competition.
I am an e-bike believer. Now need an ebike roadbike to ride to work!!
Nice bird Jerry - congrats, i am thinking NE?
Yes, love Nebraska. Miles of public land, few hunters, and 3 permits. Can move around the state to hunt Merrimans or Easterns. Go Huskers!
Ok, I bought one this week at the ISE, a Rambo tricked out for hunting, and I've never had so much fun. It's an amazing tool. Twenty seconds into my first ride I was grinning like a fool. I started pedaling and it was like Cam Hanes was behind me running and pushing. I was climbing rough dirt hills I'd never dream of climbing on my mountain bike. Felt like Lance Armstrong right after a dope injection.
I did this after researching the law. The Federal law HR727 specifically states that an e-bike with pedal-assist of 750 watts or less is NOT considered motorized and can be used wherever regular bicycles are permitted. It also says it "supersedes" any state law or requirement if that requirement is more stringent. The state of CO also passed a similar law, but gives municipalities some leeway for designated bike and pedestrian paths.
So the USFS is in violation of federal law if they prohibit them on roads or trails closed to "motorized vehicles.
Others have told me they just carry a copy of HR727 with them, and have never been ticketed. I can't find any instance of anyone being ticketed except once in a CO mountain community where some backcountry construction workers were cited, fought it locally, and got the tickets tossed out. But I have an attorney friend who is also now buying one, who will defend me in court at no charge if I ever do get a ticket.
I am sooo looking forward to riding like crazy in the mountains this summer and using it for hunting, starting with turkeys this spring!
So much for getting 2 miles off road and finding good elk hunting. So whats to keep anyone from riding above tree line on a game trail? What's next someone sending up a drone just to find the heard. Elk hunting should be hard.
" So whats to keep anyone from riding above tree line on a game trail?"
Still has to be on designated trails that bikes are allowed on. smh...
Elk hunting is hard. I've been doing it for 43 years with a bow. Let's talk about your 4WD truck you use to get to where you're hunting. What a hypocrite. Let's talk after you're 64 with a joint replacement and still bowhunt solo for 70 days a year, 30 days straight, like I do.
BTW, I find great elk hunting closer than 2 miles from a road so I can avoid the guys who think you need to go 2 miles from a road to find elk.
Both FS and BLM rules are travel management rules and have absolutely nothing to do with a motor vehicle classification.
The intent of HR727: " ``Sec. 38. <> (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products within the meaning of section 3(a)(1) and shall be subject to the Commission regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512 of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations."
https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/house-bill/727/text
Travel Management rules are a totally separate regulation. Your game cops may not be up top speed on it but the cops I talked to when looking at e-bikes sitting in the back of a truck, in a TMA sure were. They were ready to write if the bikes ever came out of the truck.
Forest Service: File Code: 2300/2350/7700 Subject: Electric Bikes and Trail Management
The Forest Service’s Travel Management Rule (TMR) and E-Bikes:
The TMR defines “motor vehicle” as “any vehicle which is self-propelled, other than:
(1) a vehicle operated on rails; and
(2) any wheelchair or mobility device, including one that is battery-powered, that is designed solely for use by a mobility-impaired person for locomotion, and that is suitable for use in an indoor pedestrian area.”
36 CFR 212.1. E-bikes have a motor, thereby are self propelled, and are not covered by the exceptions in the definition. Therefore, e-bikes are motor vehicles and are subject to regulation under the TMR, which requires designation of National Forest System (NFS) roads, NFS trails, and areas on NFS lands for motor vehicle use. 36 CFR 212.51(a). Direction on e-bikes was included in a response in the Federal Register notice for the final over-snow vehicle rule.
The response states: “New technologies that merge bicycles and motors, such as e-bikes, are considered motor vehicles under §212.1 of the TMR.” 80 Fed. Reg. 4503 (Jan. 28, 2015).
BLM:
Information Bulletin No. 2015-060
From: Acting Assistant Director, Resources and Planning
An electronic bicycle, also known as an e-bike, is a bicycle with an integrated electric motor. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) classifies e-bikes as motorized vehicles, as defined at 43 CFR 8340.5 “(a) Off-road vehicle means any motorized vehicle capable of, or designed for, travel on or immediately over land, water, or other natural terrain, excluding: (1) any non-amphibious registered motorboat; (2) any military, fire, emergency, or law enforcement vehicle while being used for emergency purposes; (3) any vehicle whose use is expressly authorized by the authorized officer, or otherwise officially approved; (4) vehicles in official use; and (5) any combat or combat support vehicle when used in times of national defense emergencies.”
"......The BLM manages e-bikes similar to the U.S. Forest Service (FS). The FS manages e-bikes as a motor vehicle per their Travel Management Rule. "
link to FS pdf: http://flagstaffbiking.org/wpcontent/uploads/2011/03/20150929EBikesBriefingPaper.pdf
link to BLM rule: https://www.blm.gov/policy/ib-2015-060
Ok now I'm very confused.......
Bob, I don't believe that will hold up in court if challenged. HR727 says, "a low-speed electric bicycle (as defined in section 38) shall NOT be considered a motor vehicle as defined by section 30102 of title 49, United States Code. For purposes of this section, the term "low-speed electric bicycle" means a two or three wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts..." Rambo bikes fit that definition. Some other e-bikes do not.
I understand TMR rules, but if they allow bicycles and not e-bikes, the TMR is in violation of federal law. The TMR is an arbitrary "rule", not a law. The only way they can legally prohibit them under that law is to prohibit all bicycles.
I'm willing to take my chances and have my attorney argue it in front of a judge.
The FS and BLM have "travel management" regulations. No camping or vehicle travel more than 100' from a road, certain roads are closed to all travel, certain trails are open for walking or horses, etc. Both have ruled that e-bikes are "motor vehicles" and therefor can only be used where other motor vehicle travel is allowed. Can't use them on trails open only to horses and hiking, or roads that are closed with those brown signs with circle/cross thru the atv/jeep/motorcycle.
When on Federal Land, Federal Rules apply. It doesn't matter what an individual state thinks is or isn't a bike or motor vehicle. The same is true for a state game dept Travel Management area. We have a bunch of them in OR and there are HMA's in Wyoming. Those areas also have their own travel restrictions. They may or may not allow an e-bike.
We don't hunt the same state so I won't turn you in. LOL
have fun out there
HR727 is a federal law, and it clearly defined what is a motorized vehicle.. USFS rules do not supersede federal law unless an exemption is made in the law, and HR727 doesn't exempt them anywhere.
A better analogy might be if the DEA decided to declare beer illegal.
I would sure think that the mfg would help a guy out on interpreting the law. I’d be interested in hearing what Rambo has to say but I won’t hold my breath since so far their customer service sucks. I agree Lou, it feels like someone’s pushing you! I love it and I would love to use it out west but if not I’ll get plenty of use out of it around home.
Lou - If you get busted and they toss you in the can, we'll hold a candlelight vigil for you. Have fun riding around with a maniacal smile.
And if you end up in the clink, can I borrow your bike? ;-)
The guy who owns Colorado E-Bikes (he's also a bowhunter) told me he knows a number of people who have been contacted by USFS on closed roads and none have been cited. He doesn't know of it ever happening but knows several attorneys who have assist bikes who are itching to test the USFS "rule". Rambo specifically built this to comply with the federal law. He said they do advise everyone to carry a copy of the law with them just in case somebody gets overzealous.
BTW, if the switch is turned off its just a regular pedal fat bike anyway. The switch is on the handlebar. Just saying, not suggesting anything...
JAQ, since we have all seen pics of ur junk, what kind of seat are you using?
One with a little depression in the middle... I swapped out the seat on my "traditional" mountain bike years ago for a bigger one with memory foam. Already shopping for a similar seat for my "compound bike".
Does anybody know what the fine would be if ticketed?
I think here in CO it would be $200. There are two USFS LEOs in my ranger district and like 1000 square miles. When I call them to report ATVs racing around off-trail in closed areas I might get a call-back within a week. I've personally never seen one do anything besides drive by on a county road about once a year, and I'm in the NF about 3-4 days a week all summer, full time in September. I haven't even seen a LEO drive by in several years.
My lawyer friend thinks there's no way a ticket would hold up in court since its (Rambo) clearly specified as "non-motorized" in the federal law. If bicycles are allowed, thr Rambo has to be allowed. If it was 1000 watts, then yes, it's considered motorized.
Jaquomo....that was always my argument....how do they tell when you are pedaling and when the motor is on...lmao. Worst case scenario you would get warned. A Wilderness Area is a mute point as feet and hooves are the only thing allowed. I am definitly getting one for Wisc. deer hunting.
The battery comes off with the flip of a handle and then it looks like a regular fat bike. I may take off pedaling from the gated road with the battery in my pack and clip it on around the corner. I have NEVER seen a USFS LEO off a vehicle road in my life. Ever. Except seasonal rangers in wilderness areas where I won't go with this anyhow. Hell, they ignore enforcing the 14 day camping rule even with multiple complaints. "Too busy, low priority" they told us when some cabin robbers were camped for three months near our place. Local sheriff deputies finally raided it and put them in jail. USFS? Not involved.
I watched a USFS LEO drive past a big semi-permanent hunting camp several times during September once and never stopped. That camp was there until mid-November.
The intent of HR 727 is to classify that an ebike under a certain wattage is not a motorized vehicle (which it clearly does). However, this designation DOES NOT HAVE A BEARING on where such an ebike can be used. The way it was explained to me is that HR 727 (a bill that defines a consumer product), says that ebikes under 750 watts shall shall be treated like a bicycle when used as a form of transportation - NO LICENSE NEEDED to use on a public road. Just like bicycles can be prohibited from certain areas, ebikes (no matter what the wattage is) can be prohibited from certain areas.
Here is the response I received from the USFS law enforcement person on E bikes who covers both CO and Wyoming. I asked the question because there were some gated roads in my area on NF that peddle bikes were allowed but a few guys had e bikes. I wasn't trying to turn them in just wanted to know if I could join in on the fun. They definitely had an advantage. We didn't bring a bike along so in the morning we had a 2 mile easy walk before we dropped off into a basin. Took us roughly 45 minutes. The guys on e bikes could cover it in 5-10 minutes and not even break a sweat. Same with coming out at night. They would jump on their bikes and buzz back to the gate. I also talked to the warden and she said they are not allowed as they are considered motorized but she forwarded me to the USFS enforcement. Currently our policy on e-bikes is that they are indeed motorized use and can only be used in areas where public motorized use is permitted. Additionally, all wheeled methods of transportation are prohibited in wilderness areas, even if they aren’t motorized. I wasn’t aware that people had begun using e-bikes in this area actually.
What I want to test is the USFS ability to prohibit one style of "non-motorized" fat bike but not the other types of "non-motorized" fat bikes.
727 says nothing about where an e-bike can be ridden, licensing requirements on public roads, or anything else. It simply and very clearly defines them as "shall not be considered a motor vehicle". How much more distinct can that be?
A bureaucrat in DC may consider them "motorized", but that directly conflicts with the legal definition in 727. Federal law trumps arbitrary travel rules, which can be changed on the whim of a desk jockey. Federal law must be changed by Congress.
Food for thought - what if a USFS bureaucrat decided compound bows are not a "bow", and issued a rule prohibiting their use on USFS land? Exact same thing happening here, except there is no federal law defining compounds as a "bow".
I would love to present a citation for "Motorized vehicle in a closed area" to a judge, attached to a copy of 727, and listen to him ask the USFS LEO to explain the policy contradiction vs Federal law. It would be worth the $200 fine for the entertainment value.
Here’s what I got from customer service at Rambo Every State will have their own laws regarding Electric Bikes. However most of them do have the general rule that the bike can't be over 750W and cant travel more then 20 MPH. We do highly suggest calling the DNR for the area that you will be riding the bike and they will be able to provide you with more updated and specific information.
Thank you,
Customer Service
Thanks, Grubby. CO has that law on the books as a state law as well.
http://www.levassociation.com/worldwide-legislation/
One thing that helps us is that a lot of roads going through fed property are access to privately owned timberlands. The timber companies retained ownership of the roads. The feds harass you but can't really do anything. I use my mountain bike to hunt and chase my runners around during track and cross country season. I am interested in a fat tire bike but don't want the electric one. They sell them up here for $2500. There is a bike club near here and they bike the snowmachine trails every weekend with fat tire bikes. They can hear the snowmachines coming and get out of the way.
Lawdy, I only paid $$2250 for my Rambo with the electric assist - 2017 model. that included a rack, handlebar post extension, and rechargeable headlight. I can pop the battery off and it is simply a "pedal" fat bike. You can get a decent entry-level fat bike for less than $1200, way less if you do some searching on the World Wide Web. I researched them a bunch before pulling the trigger on this one. IronBow suggested the Specialized Fuse, which has 3" low-pressure tires, a good gear ratio, 27.5" wheels, and can be had for under $1100. Almost bought one.
But I'll tell you this - the first time you ride one with assist, even at the lowest level, you'll want one.
Thanks for the info Jaquomo. This has been a great thread.
Thanks for the info Jaquomo. This has been a great thread.
I test rode that 750 Rambo bike at the P&Y convention and really want one. I have a few areas in CA where there's good hunting on old roads that have USFS gates on them that are open to motorized vehicle traffic, but are gated nonetheless. Three areas specifically have good hunting with trails starting off the road 2, 3, and 7 miles in that you need a key to access, or else you use a bike or walk and it's a very steep uphill climb, so I always just walked it.
I bid on the one they auctioned off at the convention, but it ended up going for more than what they were offering as the convention discount.
They are fun as Hell though.
http://rogueridge.com/
Check out Rogue Ridge....
Jaq So which Rambo did you buy? I see they have a 500 and 750 model. If you got the 750 are you at all concerned the law indicates <750 watts and not equal or < than 750? Also if you got the 500 do you think it has enough power. Considering these but due to the price tag will probably go the route of the Specialized Fuse.
"a low-speed electric bicycle (as defined in section 38) shall NOT be considered a motor vehicle as defined by section 30102 of title 49, United States Code. For purposes of this section, the term "low-speed electric bicycle" means a two or three wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts..."
I have been looking into these/this Brand
Exciting!
Good luck, Robb
Hey, if you guys don't wanna get hassled by the feds or LEO's, then you should probably have this guy build you one! ;-)
I don't wish bad on you, but I hope that you or someone gets a ticket and fights it. One thing I would tell the person writing the ticket is that you look forward to seeing him/her in court because you are pretty sure you can beat it. AND you will be setting legal precedent for future riders if you win. I too have hunted the mountains for more than 30 years and have done more than most hunters on wearing out some shoe leather on regular and backpack hunts. But my 60th comes next month and something like this looks pretty good to me. As far as the environment or other hunters go, there is really no difference in a 100% pedal or a pedal assist bike. I am currently using a regular mountain bike, but it gets harder every year. The bike path and the animals won't know the difference if I switch, just the younger crowd who would be glad to see me go. "I will not go softly into that good night....."
Robb, the RADs are great also. They have less pedal assist (5 levels vs. 9) and an half-twist throttle instead of a little throttle lever, but otherwise they have the same motor and Shimano gear system. And the price is definitely great at about $1500. Mine was $2250 with the rack, handlebar extension, tire liners.
There is definitely some ambiguity in the various iterations of the law. SB 1156, which morphed into the HR, defined it as "no more than 750 watts", which is also how the CO state law is worded. I'm going to talk with the Rambo folks next week to find out if the "750" is actually a tad bit less than actual max wattage. I don't believe this hair-splitting will be the issue if this ever goes to court.
Either way, I've been talking with some other CO e-bike riders who also tell me they've either never been hassled on USFS land, or when they did encounter a USFS guy he didn't pay attention to them. The prevailing attitude among those I spoke with seems to be to play dumb, something like, "I'm so sorry, the folks at the bike shop told me this isn't considered a motor vehicle under federal and state law." Also, how do they prove you had it turned on? If the button is off, it's a pedal fat bike. I believe this is yet another of the unenforceable USFS rules, like the 14 day camping rule that's never enforced, even when people are reported and have been checked by USFS for weeks.
The dealer I bought mine from, Colorado E-Bikes, is the biggest one in the region. They've sold a bunch of these to hunters and outdoorsmen. They've never heard of anyone being ticketed, and the owner told me he has encountered USFS people while riding it on USFS trails open to bicycles.
Very possible they don't want to push it, lose, and have it on record as a legal precedent.
I asked the local ranger where I hunt if they would write a ticket for using an electric bike and he said he would. Harder to fight something like that as a NR but as I approach retirement, I may consider it.
Hard to know if the bike shop will tell you accurate info. If they told you there were tickets written, they lose a sale.
it'll get hashed out this year or next more than likely.
I just bought the ambush 750 from quietkat. Expensive to say the least...I also have the rear rack, fenders, and trailer. I looked at the Rambo and the Quietkat...the Rambo was 100 less but I just decided to go with the QK. I spoke with the Rambo guys on the phone and the QK guys on the phone too. I'm currently ordering an axle to switch the front tire to a quick release axle. I'm short too...5'4" and have to adjust how I get on and off the bike...but once on I don't have a problem.
