Contributors to this thread:
How many points do you havefor CO moose
Going into this years draw at 3/11. But, I have friends who are in their early 40's who've been putting in since they were 12 who haven't drawn yet. I guess you can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket:)
I have 3PP and 16 weighted, the max. and 75 % of the 17,000 to 20,000 applicants put in for a bull moose tag. I am going to guess that around 300-350 total moose license were available last year and with more than half of those were cow licenses. I have known a few hunters who have drawn a cow moose licenses twice in the past 25 years. Twenty years ago the system was changed to the PP system. Prior to that was was a lottery just like the Desert Sheep license here in Colorado.
In 2012, 16,500 hunters applied for 219 moose licenses. 185 moose were killed. Today's population is nearly 2,400 moose but the DOW long term objective statewide is 1,700 to 2,200 so today's moose population is near or over objective. So I really doubt if the State's population will be allowed to grow much more than it is today. CWD has been found in some moose herds.
We have all heard of someone drawing a moose license after 4 or 5 years of applying and there is no "guarantee" that one will ever draw with the max number of PPs and weighted points.
Thanks Paul - very informative.
Yes, supply and demand. The supply will stay the same but the demand will keep rising and the odds of drawing a moose tag will lessen.
I remember applying for moose back before Pref Points came into effect. When I drew in '09, i had applied for 18 years total.
Definitely put in for RES ONLY moose units. And do your research, look back at units they opened up for moose in the past couple years...
Stay away from units 171 and 6 as they are popular and both NR & Res can apply. You odds are terrible
I have the max weighted points. Been applying since 1988 without drawing. :(
Max here. But that doesn't much matter. If you have 3+2 your statistical chances of drawing are almost as good as 3+max.
Paul, several years ago we had a focus group meeting with CPW folks about moose, and they told us they have absolutely no idea how many there really are because they have no budget for counting, like with deer and elk. They do know the population is expanding throughout the habitat. Up here around our cabin the density seems to be about the same but they definitely are expanding their range. Seeing them in places where they never were before.
According to the CPW, the moose population has expanded 37% in the last few years but now they are starting to talk, "carrying capacity" and limiting them to long term objectives.
Other surrounding states seem to have had a reduction of moose in their population. Wolves, CWD, lack of proper habitat, etc.
cnelk, no matter how many NR's apply for any particular Bull Moose license, it has no effect whatsoever on Resident draw odds for that unit. Non residents are never in the running for any portion of the unit-by-unit resident allocation of Bull Moose licenses.
"Today's population is nearly 2,400 moose but the DOW long term objective statewide is 1,700 to 2,200 so today's moose population is near or over objective..."
That'll be a talking point for the wolf lovers trying to reintroduce wolves in the state.
Sticksender - that may be true, but the odds are MUCH better if a Res applies for RES ONLY unit.
Yeah it varies by resident demand. Just didn't wanna get thrown under the bus somehow for being a NR ;-)
Good luck to everyone in the draw.
But not you cnelk.....I know you already got your's!!!
Have all of the points. Been putting in since before points.
The tag allocations are separate for resident and non-resident. The only influence by unit for moose is how many residents put in with more than 3 points.
Hunting method (rifle, muzzle loader, or archery) does not influence the total number of moose tags for a unit. All of them can go to one method, depending on who gets lucky in the draw.
With as few licenses as there are available and the chance of drawing another tag in your life is probably 0%, I don't understand why Colorado doesn't just set up separate moose seasons (archery, muzzle loader, rifle) and if you draw you should be able to just hunt all seasons with the lesser weapon. Give archery only at least a week, muzzle loader and archery a week, then any weapon.
I should have said if you are a resident, the only influence on probability of drawing is how many residents with more than 3 points and the same for the non-resident allocation. They are separate.
I have zero. some day I will hunt moose, but it won't be in my home state.
To add a positive post to this thread at least CO Moose has been adding tags and it seems like every other state I have been applying in has been drastically reducing tags. WY, NH, VT, ME, etc. I drew CO Moose in 2002 or 2003, don't remember exactly , with 3+2. I honestly didn't realize the tag I had. Oh well, got my bull so I'm not affecting anyone's odds now. Paul, Treeline and Jaquomo I hope you draw this year!!!! Good luck!
Some info about some popular moose [bull] units - 171 & 161 & 6.
171 is open for both Res & NR - Tag allotment was 7 total. NR tag cap =1. Total Choice 1 apps = 770 [both Res/NR with no identifier amount of each]
161 is open for Res only. Tag allotment was 7 total. Total Choice 1 apps = 223.
6 is open to both Res & NR - Tag allotment was 14 total. NR tag cap =3. Total Choice 1 apps = 1091 [both Res/NR with no identifier amount of each]
And the real kicker... in GMU 6, one Res drew with 3+3. one NR drew with 3+2
Good luck in your apps guys, there is always a chance!
You need to look at the moose draw statistics on line to get a better understanding of the drawing for moose.
For Unit 6, the odds of drawing a bull moose tag for residents was 11 out of 627 and the odds for drawing a non-resident moose tag was 3 out of 250 applicants with a minimum of 3 points.
There were many resident and non-resident applications with maximum points (as well as many applicants with more points than the lucky ones that were drawn) that were not drawn due to the way the system is set up. Weighted points don't really mean much for moose. It might help to move the bar up from 3 PP's to something like 10 points before the weighted points kick in or even 15 points the way the demand is headed.
Again, the way the moose drawing system is set up, all 14 of these tags could end up being drawn for 1 method of take - even though there were applicants for all 3 methods. If you draw archery, they have the muzzleloader season starting the same day. Have had several incidents with muzzle loaders shooting bulls out from under bow hunters with this arrangement.
The data I posted above actually did come from the draw stats...
Here is my ' better understanding of the drawing for moose' :)
And it was a Res Only Unit
Glad you got a whopper moose. Congratulations!
The odds of drawing a tag are basically the same for anyone with 3 or more points. Someone can draw the first year they put in with 3 points even though there are 100's of guys with more weighted points ahead of them.
The resident tag allocation is separate from the nonresident tag allocation. The non-resident applicants do not have any influence on resident odds of drawing and vice-versa. Resident only units do not necessarily give you better odds of drawing. The best chance of drawing a moose tag is 9% but most are around 1-4% chance in units with or without non-resident tags.
There is no allocation by method of take. A number of units were filled on tags by all rifle hunters.
With as few tags as are provided, and the low probability of ever getting another tag in your lifetime, you would think that Colorado would provide plenty of time to hunt - and allow hunters to hunt with various weapons thru the hunt. Utah moose hunts are a month long. Wyoming moose seasons are typically a full month and up to two months. If you draw, you can buy an archery stamp and hunt an additional month (without rifle hunters!) prior to the rifle season. Heck, Montana gives moose hunters a full 2 1/2 months!
With moose population over objective you'd think CPW would allow a tag holder to hunt all three seasons until they got one just to help reduce population.
It hasnt helped that the CPW opens the archery moose season the same day as MLs overrun the woods. In most areas we have archery deer, archery elk, archery and rifle bear, now MLs all roaming moose habitat at the same time archery moose hunters are starting.
Couple benefits of the early archery-only season would be that there are usually less Moose hunters to compete with in the archery-only season. And that we get to go first before the bulls start roaming away from their core areas. Could come into play if you're targeting a specific bull that you've patterned pre-season.
With the limited number of tags, it would really make sense lengthen the seasons and not make the tag weapon specific. Giving bowhunters at least some time to be able to chase a moose without worrying about it getting shot out from under them when they are stalking in close would be a good thing. Colorado does not seem to like bow hunters very well, though.
Lou, you ae 1000% correct muzzleloader season opened the same day as Moose season in 2015 for the first time figures that would happen the year I finally drew.
Tavis, I was pushing for that even before I drew. This year I see they plan to allow those Moose hunters from 2016 (or at least some of them) that did not kill to hunt one particular unit this year.
Yes, do it just like Wyoming does it... but that would make sense... We put a camera up years ago on our elk spot and got more moose than elk... During elk season (archery) a rutting bull moose had a guy pinned down in a pop up blind for hours circling the blind and head tilting till it got dark. He finally took off after the bull and its cow bed across the park from him...
standswittaknife, whether Wyoming does it right or not probably depends on which end of the PP rainbow you're on. For me, it worked like a dream. Of course, I got in on the ground floor. When I decided to cash in my PP's, I knew I would draw. It was guaranteed.
OTOH, someone that's just now getting in the PP game plays a totally different game. They can be assured the only way they'll ever draw a Wyoming moose license is to beat the staggering odds in the random draw. Wyoming's PP system was a blessing for me, but it's a curse for my grandkids.
wyo... understood... I just like the fact you can move from season to season but your point is very well taken...
Might as well be a random draw for CO residents now. Anyone with 3+1 is in the pool, and someone could draw with 3+0. No system is perfect in this age of point creep, but at least with elk and deer you know you're going to draw when you get there.
With moose, goats and sheep, there's no way to plan ahead for a big hunt somewhere else. You may draw all three the same year or never draw any of them in your lifetime.
I've got 3+0, mooses here I come, woohoo!
The fact will remain in all situations where demand outstrips supply, that some will have to wait. And where demand greatly outstrips supply, some (or many) will have to wait longer than their lifetimes, which means some (or many) will never get to do the hunt. This is why I advocate for a bonus point system with 1 tag per lifetime limits for tags where demand greatly outstrips supply, such as lower 48 moose/sheep/goat/bison tags. Preference points or weighted whatever are nonsense. Everyone gets a chance, some people will go without, but those who got in when the system went in, dont get a huge advantage for the rest of their lives that no one will ever have ever again under the system.
I'm 3+3 for cow moose antlers are hard to eat and moose are yummy!
The interesting thing about cow moose in CO is that a NR can draw a cow tag almost every year with zero points in many units. Suspect it's because most don't want to pay that much to hunt a cow. Then there's the "horn porn" thing.
I'm pretty well loaded with about 3/10. Moose everywhere near my home. Here's a backyard ornament. They've shredded my elk target....putting in for a different unit this year, gonna change it up
Jeez Brad that's a great bull!
Lou.... ya have a point, so to speak.....
Not a chance in hell I would put in for an animal just for meat when that meat cost probably cost me around $100 a lb when all is said and done...... and that's DIY. At least with elk I can dream (kid myself?) I'll wind up with something worthy of a wall to look at.... OK, maybe brag about too.
Porn has been a profitable industry for a reason..... a cow moose euro on the wall would just be creepy..... a Jenna Jameson dream (nightmare?) OTOH..... or, the other hand.....
OK. Edit. Somebody just informed me how old and out of the loop(s) I was..... so to speak....
If you draw a tag, I know some spots...
Would Lou volunteer as a deke? Have to get em to stop somehow as they came by chasing him though......
For me, and likely a good many NRs, drawing a decent AK tag is much easier, can do it DIY and the costs involved for me are not a great deal higher than hunting them in the lower 48.
A resident tag would be pretty special though. Not only WRT cost but a better chance to give it all the time and effort it deserves. Good luck to you folks. As they say....... somebody has to win it..... might as well be you.
I drew bull tag in 2007 with 3+6. I believe that was 1 under max at that time. My son drew Unit 28 this year I believe(looking at backdoor method) with 3+12.
My first choice. 176 0/8 P&Y, 180 3/8 B&C.
My first choice. 176 0/8 P&Y, 180 3/8 B&C.
My second choice. My wife had eyes on him while I killed my bull.
My second choice. My wife had eyes on him while I killed my bull.
"...you would think that Colorado would provide plenty of time to hunt..."
How much time do you need? When I drew in 2012, I spent ALL summer "hunting". By opening morning, I knew the location and habits of two good bulls and had many good photos. I killed one of them opening morning.
I also had been applying for an area that only had 1 tag and wasn't known as a 'moose area'. That made it easier to draw and NO competition/conflicts during the hunt. When I killed him he was the #2 archery bull in Colorado.
Good luck to those who have yet to draw. It's not going to get any easier.
Due to age creep I applied for unit 41 moose, NR, as odds appeared good for my 3 + 13 points. The bull age structure and animal density hopefully are good. The otc pressure might be the biggest detriment to this unit. Also if I draw I can bring help if someone wants to buy a otc tag.
I got 3-13 in the NonRes side