Am I playing with fire with this setup?
Elk
Last year I shot a 4x5 bull elk with a 330 IBO bow set at 27.5 inch DL, 70 DW, and a 425 grain arrow tipped with a NAP shockwave. This year I'm using the same setup but with the DW backed off to 65 pounds and a slightly lighter arrow at 416 grains. This is somewhere in the ball park of 63 to 65 ft lbs ke. Whaddaythink of this setup for elk?
Relax....It will work fine.
Seems like it will work, you are a bit less than two blazer vanes lighter than last time.
People shoot the same DL with lessor DW out of traditional bows that have far less energy and pass through elk.
I think it will kill them just fine if your setup is tuned properly.
With a fixed head, I wouldn't second guess this setup at all. The shockwave is a mechanical though. However it is only 1 1/4 inch mechanical. Heck the Muzzy MX3 my brother shot through his bull last year had the same cut diameter. I guess there is the matter of losing energy via blade deployment, but I don't think that this is as significant of a factor as people like to think.
Being as you're questioning your set up, how well did it perform on the 4x5? Personally I'm not impressed with the shockwaves leading edge. Kinda chunky imo, I'd think differently if it were more trocor-like.
Probably ok. The tip and the dainty blades would keep me from choosing that head if I had enough energy for a mechanical, but guys kill a lot of elk with similar stuff. I shoot about 1/2 the KE and have zero doubts about my set-up.
If you're second guessing your setup with the mechanical, then what's your reason for using it? I'm sure you know that confidence in your gear at the shot is imperative, otherwise, you wouldn't be here asking the question. Lots of setups will kill elk, but if you're not confident that your setup will kill the elk, you're setting yourself up for failure. When you release that arrow, you have to know that the animal is dead as you release the arrow. Otherwise, you won't release the arrow or you are setting yourself up to make a bad decision or shot.
Elk have respectable resistance to broadheads. Good luck! C
This thread is an example of several things. First off, kinetic energy doesn't translate into killing power. Second, everyone knows mechanicals don't penetrate as well as a sturdy fixed blade. Especially a chisel tipped fixed head. And, most people haven't shot things with a trad bow. Cause, if they had, they'd know with a good broadheads and tuning, you could kill the elk you were shooting at and the one behind it with the arrow combo listed by the OP as his new choice.
Mechanicals sure do work. But, in this case, they are the variable for consideration. If you choose them, be sure to be confident in them. So, you can put them where they belong. God Bless men
It's surely to bounce right off an elk now. :)
Seriously though, five pound drop and a handful of grains and you think it's really going to make a difference? It's not, you can expect exactly the same results as before.
Personally, I don't see a good reason for mechanical heads for large animals, and I use to kill tons of shit with spitfires, but that's just my opinion.
Yes, 65# at 27.5" draw with 415 grains is darn near perfect for your setup. Tune it & practice with confidence! I too would consider another broadhead such as an Exodus Qad or similar proven head. Lots of them out there!
These 3 bulls were taken with less than 38# KE. Shots were 14 yd-- 17yd -- 32 yd -- Your umph will geter done as long as you do your part!
ElkNut1
Nice picture Paul, hope you're shooting your stickbow again... Sometimes, people overthink things, start making changes, draw weight, arrow weight, but why don't they think about trying a different head, just to see... That light of an arrow, I to would use a different head. Lots of great heads out there, Muzzy, Wasp, VAP, G5. Think a head like a Montec, Hellrazor, or VAP would be a deadly combination with your setup.
Something that often puzzles me in an amusing kind'a way.
When someone asks about apples , others start immediately start comparing the outcomes to oranges.
The physics of a 700 grain arrow traveling at 160 fps when encountering terminal resistance is very different from a 400 grain arrow traveling at 300 fps.
Years ago, someone used thick leather, stretched tight, and a scale to measure how much pressure was required to force a broadhead through it. By slowly pushing the head through the leather, it was concluded that some styles of heads would penetrate "better". I still see that same experiment touted today, by some.
Now this experiment would have great bearing on broadhead selection IF we walked up to animals and slowly pushed the arrow in. But we don't. And if someone IS launching a 400 grain arrow at 330 fps. then we don't really need to tell that person what would happen if it was 700 grains flying 160 fps.
Getting hit by a dump truck traveling at 50 mph or a Corvette doing 100 mph is likely to have the same final outcome.
I would choose to be in the dump truck when they hit head on :^)
It's true some use very heavy arrows with specific draw weight setups. We are not those guys! Those arrow weights are in the 475 grain to 500 grains with 3-4 bladed heads. The main point was the OP is not under gunned in the slightest with his setup. I also shoot 65# at 27.5" draw with a 420-425 grain arrow out of a compound & it does very well on elk. If you can kill them with longbows & recurves you can certainly kill elk with about any compound. I was just trying to help the lad out & not have him over think his setup outside of his choice of broadhead. I like Buglmin's choices! (grin)
ElkNut1
I too would choose the dumptruck but your setup will work fine. How'd it work on your last bull?
"I would choose to be in the dump truck when they hit head on :^)"
I know you're just spoofing, but it does play into the apples to oranges. We were talking about getting hit by one (as a pedestrian), not being in one or the other during a head on between the two. Totally different dynamic and parameter.
Not an expandable set up for Elk. Period
Have killed lots of elk with 425 grain arrows off 55-65 pound longbows and 3-blade broadheads. So have a number of my buddies. Have actually gotten complete pass-thru's a number of times. Your setup with a compound is more than adequate. Probably getting around 180-200 fps off those bows with those arrows so way less than what you will get with your compound. Would recommend going to a solid fixed blade broadhead for elk, though.
KE doesn't mean much with bowhunting - one of the biggest jokes in the history of archery IMO
Momentum is the key - its why low KE, slow heavy arrow shooting trad guys blow through animals and high KE, light and fast compound shooters don't
I don't know that I'd hunt elk below a total of 500 grains and a solid 3 blade head. I wouldn't trust a Shockwave at all.
That's me - a lot of people disagree
I've shot heavy from my trad bows for years (600+) with weight tubes, brass inserts, aluminum inside aluminum, heavy broad heads, hardwood shafts, etc. Worked great but I had a bow that shot great with plain Gold Tip 500s that ended up around 430. Shot an elk and it worked as good as any. Picked the arrow up on the far side of him. I think great arrow flight and broadhead design are the top factors. Obviously you need enough momentum but I've seen a lot of great penetration from bows that don't even come close to the energy and momentum most any modern compound delivers.
I get that getting some broadhead designs to fly well or hit where field points do from a fast bow isn't always simple. I would still suggest trying to reach a "no doubt" solution. For me, that means a strong, simple head with a good angle of attack that I can practice with and get back to razor sharp before the real thing. If your "no doubt" solution is the Shockwave, thats great but if not, there are too many great choices on the market to go afield with that little doubt lingering. A lot of things can go wrong bowhunting but broadhead performance doesn't need to be one of them.
I shot an elk with a 389 grain carbon shaft tipped with a thunderhead at about the exact bow specs you listed. Actual draw length was a 1/2 inch shorter though. It was 45 yards on the dot. Quartering away hard. The kind where you squeeze by the back leg to get it angled into the whole vitals. Instead of the back of the offside lung. It was a steep angle for sure. I never found that arrow as it went through her like butter. So, you can rest assured, your arrow is heavy enough. God Bless
Blade angle looks good on the shockwave and its not too big of a cutting diameter but I would buy a pack of exodus and if you cant get them to tune then use the shockwave
you won't have a problem at all... use your current set up
I'm shooting a 400 grain arrow at about 62 lbs and its killed a half dozen elk with no complications. Most being complete pass thru's. Carbon tech arrows tipped with a slick trik 100 grain BH
